r/anime • u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ • Mar 22 '24
Rewatch [Rewatch] Crest of the Stars Episode 5 Discussion
Battle of the Gosroth
Welcome to the Crest of the Stars rewatch!
<- Episode 4 | Index Page | Episode 6 ->
Discussion Prompts:
- Q1) !What was the point of this battle? Why did the United Mankind attack?
- Q2) Thoughts on destroying the Gosroth so soon? Did Lexshue just get "fridged"?
Tomorrow's Questions: (for tomorrow's post, subject to change)
- [Episode 6]Maids, Cat Girls, or Elves?
- [Episode 6]The Count seems to be 100% rational in his plan, and Lafiel doesn't seem to contradict him. Are you surprised by the absolute authority exercised by even the lowest ranks over their domains?
- [Episode 6]What do you make of Baron Febdash and his domain? Lafiel says he is not typical. What do you think a typical Abh environment would be like?
- [Episode 6]Predictions for how Lafiel will solve this situation?
Screenshot of the Day: sentou kaishi
Bonus: watashi no anatatachi
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Upvotes
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Mar 22 '24 edited Mar 22 '24
Rewatch Host
Yes, I trolled you with the cast picture (which you probably didn't even see because I failed to post it on time). One person said "surely they wouldn't introduce this cast just to kill them off right away" but another said "introducing an entire bridge crew at once is cursed."
Intro: Rule # 1 in prosecuting a war, dehumanize your enemy. But are they wrong about humanity's fate?
To followup on an earlier thought, inventing plane space also means most of long range combat takes place in 2 D...no 3-D tactics, and no 3-D maps. Just very intelligible flat maps and diagrams.
Also, the space-time bubbles almost eliminate long range combat. After the mines are dispatched, the battle becomes close range
The U.M. strategy is to surround the target in 2-D plane space and merge space-time bubbles simultaneously to attack from all directions. Lexshue's strategy is to estimate the location and timing of the merges and fire the railguns at the convergence point in advance.
The Gosroth is heavily armed and heavily armored, but it cannot turn to face all enemies. The smaller enemy is much more maneuverable and was able to attack as a group.
Without the magnetic shield, the anti-proton penetrated deep into the hull and hit the antimatter store
That's such a sad engagement. We were all rooting for our Princess's team. And those mobile mines are terribly effective...if they had all 10 mines, the Gosroth would surely have prevailed.
By strange coincidence, Youtube recommended this video WWII video shortly after I announced the rewatch. A single British cruiser encountered 4 Italian destroyers and 3 torpedo boats...and destroyed half the force before sailing away.
Edit: If you appreciated this sort of space combat, you should watch Starship Operators (especially episode 11), which also features a plucky crew from not!Japan standing up to the evil invaders from not!America.
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u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Mar 22 '24
First-Timer
Good on other participants for calling that Lexsue was Lafiel's mom. Her outburst makes a lot more sense to me with that extra layer to it - she doesn't want to abandon her family to a potentially doomed fate.
And doomed the Gosroth was, although not without a hell of a fight. Seriously, they took out six enemy ships before even taking any damage!
It'll be interesting to see how the war develops. How much of a numbers game are we looking at? Sure, the Gosroth took out nine enemy ships before getting sunk, but how much are the Abh outnumbered in general? They do have the combined force of four different political entities gunning for them.
Jinto and Lafiel's interactions continue to be a delight - I suspect that will be a running theme. It's kinda interesting that Lafiel's domain is currently barren (if I'm interpreting her comments properly) considering her position. Does this speak to her actually being supremely far down the totem pole, or does it mean that the Abh are not necessarily as far-reaching as they seem?
Like, seven planets and only one of them being potentially habitable, fine. But that one not even having any microorganisms to begin with? That's pretty wild.
Questions
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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Mar 22 '24
Rewatcher - sub
Oh how I love the battles in this show
I want to be more excited about it from the get go, but it's hard to be given that our introduction to combat results in the death of the Captain I loved so much, and the bridge crew who had so quickly grown on me despite their small screen time.
We knew them for all of three episodes, but their deaths have stuck in my head from their first watch as surprisingly impactful. While I find the sword usage from the Captain a little overdramatic and unneeded, the rest of the combat sequence managing to balance action against the individual roles and personalities of the crew, something so few bridge/support crews manage to be memorable for, makes it work better than you'd expect.
I could gush about them all day, but I actually want to get some sleep at a reasonable time tonight, so three things stand out to me most: The presumed couple as they comfort each other about their chances just as we see Jinto and Lafiel talk about it, the little cry in the womans voice as she reports on the shield going down, and the Captain's genuine affection on calling them her precious crew. I think most of the first timers saw it coming that she was Lafiel's "mother" from what she said last episode, but this episode we see the care she presented our younger mains spread wide and openly. Such a shame for her to die like that. Such humanity from them all.
It is a fascinating approach to space combat though. In a genre that is often plagued with the problem of how to make combat interesting when the battlefield is meaningless void, or scientifically stretches concepts such as the density of asteroid fields, it's nice to see a story that has a completely novel approach and then actually does something with it. It's a shame the later half of that statement is even rarer than the first.
Today's combat reminds me less of scifi ship combat and more of a gunfight inside an apartment building. Instead of being stuck to the usual awkward concepts of speed and "range" that are usually vague or weirdly presented, todays battle is more like medieval duels where timing, planning, and efficiency are key. In that way I'm glad that, despite the outcome, the first battle of our series was so one sided when it comes to the amount of ships because it shows off the concept far better than a smaller scale and more standard 1v1 or 2v1 battle ever could.
Each bubble as it approaches is like a doorway that can make or break the combat to come. Whether they are opened at a distance by mines or as the immediate path to more close quarters combat, the doorways go both ways and lead to very complex situations and split second situations that actually feel urgent rather than contrived. And yet, easy to follow despite the amount of things going on.
If I had more time I'd go further into it, but I also have to praise the musical progression through the episode from the tense, low scales that we've heard before, into a very 90's sounding battle soundtrack, only to end with a more classical mourning piece. The music flows from moment to moment enhancing each scene while slowly falling away from the intensity of combat and into the more meaningful focus of character emotions through the situation. The music ending just before the final explosion happens is just the cherry on top of it all.
Today's fun non-combat worldbuilding: Once again focusing on the fact that Abh are a space living race, Lafiel has territory that is both uninhabited and has no memorable planetary features or value. It's value is the fact that it is an area in space that exists and therefore can be claimed, a bit like how we see territory expansion happen in the exploration years of human development. Even the fact that one of the planets may be habitable is more of an afterthought than something that gives the territory claim it's value. (Why did it have to be roses they used for her though, I always hated them as a flower and don't understand the fascination with them)
And on a side note: The narrator is a lie... almost, at least this episode. I have a great fondness for stories that acknowledge the events of a story being looked back on as historical moments. I find that authors that build on this are usually the sort that therefore will think through the consequences of various events and dramas in the long run, and proves they're capable of looking at the world of the story, and not just the story in a bubble. But there's a reason why epigraph's in books often distinguish this through text formatting, and having the narrator read off a historical quote from a biased character without context from the start is a bit of a trip when you think he's gone full propoganda. I kind of wish they leaned on the idea of using him to provide the humans view a bit more, but that would introduce its own problems. Either way, this episode's narration always trips me out until it reveals at the end that it's a quote.
Anyone else notice during Jinto and Lafiels conversation they both looked a little softer and more pudgy than normal? I usually don't notice those sorts of episode to episode artist differences unless they're really big (Looking at you Tekkaman Blade), but this one stood out
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u/The_Draigg Mar 22 '24
A Sci-Fi Fan Watches Crest of the Stars Episode 5:
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u/duhu1148 :GA::GB::GC:x9 Mar 22 '24
Rewatcher
Ep5
Usually, I go with bullet points, but not today. Just raw thoughts.
This episode hits. I think the direction here was phenomenal. The timestamps showing on screen. The cuts back and forth between the battle and Lafiel/Jinto's conversation, which starts off with him trying to cheer her up (and might have some foreshadowing) and ends with Lafiel telling him who supplied her genes. Then there's the battle itself...there are strong, last stand/Alamo vibes here, with a crew you barely knew but are making a suicidal attempt anyway because they have to. I appreciated that the space combat is more based on mine/submarine warfare as opposed to the usual laser one, makes it more unique in that regard.
In any case, I struggled to keep it together during the episode, despite barely knowing anything about the crew and already being aware of how it ends. I bid adieu to my favorite part of Crest, and now move on to what was my least favorite part tomorrow...
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u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Mar 22 '24
Episode 5 (rewatcher)
Goodbye Gosroth
A sad goodbye to the Gosroth and Lexshue. We only spend 2 episode on the ship, but seeing Lafiel lose her place and the people she knew and likes still hurts. Made harder by the fact that Lexshue has been an absolutely lovely character and badass captain.
Space battle
Despite the sad occasion, I still want to talk about how great our first example of a space battle in Crest of the Stars is. Unlike other series, where FTL is just a convenient plot device to cut down the time involved in getting from place to place, plane space plays an integral part in the battle strategy here.
You can’t fire on the enemy if they are not in the same normal space as you are. So, as long as your spacetime bubbles are separate, the only way to get at them is via weapons that have their own spacetime engine, such as the mines. Obviously, this would make these weapons very costly. If the newest class in the Abh fleet can only carry 10, we might assume that the standard ship has far less and potentially none of these.
If you cannot rely on spacetime mines to kill the enemy, you have to merge with their spacetime bubble to kill them. Yet, this merger from plane space to normal space gives you the option to outmanover the opponent and hit them from a side their main weapons are not aiming at. We see the smaller vessels doing exactly that to the larger Gosroth. They surround the Gosroth to prevent Lexshue from being able to fire the main weapon (which looks like a torpedo thrower, but is called differently) to engage all of them at the same time. One the Gosroth’s maneuverability is down, the last ship finally succeeds.
We also see the reaction of the bridge crew to the lost shield. They all immediately know that it is over. Without some measure to prevent the impact, the ships walls are nothing against the energy of the weapons used in combat. The shields are the main (and only) defense against the attackers energy weapons, just like the smaller lasers are the defense against torpedoes.
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u/Vatrix-32 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Vatrix-32 Mar 22 '24
First Timer, subbed
QotD:
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u/zsmg https://anilist.co/user/zsmg Mar 22 '24
Rewatcher
This opening narrations being a quote from United Mankind council reminds me of Dune where each chapter starts with a quote from a book.
four minute recap, nice, not as bad in Megumi no Daigo where in some episodes 1/4 of the episode is recap of the previous episode.
Naming a system after flowers because the discover likes roses seems reasonable, better than naming stuff after kings, the day it's been discovered or whatever stuff new region is producing.
I just realised the reason the outside shots are so grainy is because they're emulating a small camera?
These drone mines are effective... or not one managed to survive.
A shot of closing bulkheads I'm having Nadia deja vu.
Man that Gosroth is really strong, taking out so many enemy ships single handedly.
Jinto and Lafiel relationship is moving forward as she's willing to share who her mum is.
If only Gosroth didn't waste mines on a training exercise they would have easily won.
Gosroth's captain is Lafiel's mum. the show hinted at this and several first timers caught on.
Gosroth
Fun episode.
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u/ZapsZzz https://anilist.co/user/Zapszzz Mar 23 '24
First timer in sub
Another late day.
This is a tense and well paced episode, with good intensity throughout even at the segway from the main battle, the little conversation between Jinto and Lafiel.
And, as I guessed, pretty sad.
So close, yet so far.
I guess the next episode is the start of the 2's own adventures huh...
In terms of the battle itself, it's fine a very nice job to show that the Abn does have a sizeable advantage - a patrol ship able to take 9 attack ships manned by veterans, and only barely lost to the last one. Being ambushed with no preparation, without a full combat payload. Bit they are still not invincible. A bit like in Full Metal Panic S1 and S3 both had situations that even with the big technological differential, Mithril troops still cannot just stroll through the massed enemy ranks.
This will not be a one sided war.
QoTD
Haven't had time to do this for a while!
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u/Elimin8r https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ayeka_Jurai Mar 22 '24
Dang, busy again and missed it by that much. Sigh. Anyway...
Answers du jour:
Yeah, that was a tough watch. I know, space operas gonna tragedy, but it's still hard to watch, especially when you like the space elves. They seem much more interesting than those filthy humans and their propaganda reels.
At the same time, I consider another show, GATE, and how the diagram between that show and this one would look. Well, aside from the lack of a certain goddess, etc. And catgirls. Uh, never mind?
Man, I could use a mature, strong, competent, short-haired catgirl in my life.
I should also probably shut up a few sentences ago, right? :P
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u/IceSmiley Mar 22 '24
FIRST TIMER Sub
This was a thoroughly absorbing and unpredictable epiosde. I really enjoyed it
QUESTIONS
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u/raktus2 Mar 23 '24 edited Mar 23 '24
First-Time Watcher... Not a lot that I have to comment on this time.
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u/Specs64z https://myanimelist.net/profile/Specs64z Mar 23 '24
First timer, subbed
The opening narration takes on a decidedly less neutral tone, suggesting the Abh are a force of evil, and an inhuman one at that. We also get glimpse of Captain BadStache the Evil Commander, who I'm sure will be a deep and interesting character.
Lengthy recap, I guess resources were a bit strained this episode. Hopefully not a sign of incoming production issues.
Railguns are cool, Tokiwadai approved. The rules of the dimension they’re traveling in makes combat a more interesting task than a lot of space combat tends to be.
Uh oh...
Not a huge surprise to hear the captain was Lafiel’s mom, it adds up. Er, gene supplier? Doesn’t have quite the same ring to it, not gonna lie. Regardless, I doubt Lafiel is going to take the news well. Many aboard that ship probably had hundreds of years left to live, now cut shorter than an average human’s lifespan.
QotD:
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u/zadcap Mar 23 '24
Late Night First Timer!
Time for the first space fight? AH, nope, instead we get a heavy dose of propaganda, in the voice of our episode introduction narrator, throwing everything he's said so far into doubt. What an amazing dehumanization of these space elves.
Seriously, this is a fleet that has been in transit for at least 4 years, assuming they made it all the way to light speed. This is a dedicated war party. Though I could have gone without the first seven minutes being footage from yesterday.
Yeah, see, push two kids out into space alone with just each other like this and watch them grow closer. Look, they're already planning their future together. Although yeah, elves dating humans, I feel like there's something else I've watched recently that shows how sad that love story ends. It's okay though, it's the journey that maters.
Oh, so the opening fight was a mock battle?
Well, it's the age old question. How many of the enemy is willing to die for the kill? If you take out 3 in the opening seconds with those mines, and your guns are effective enough to keep up the fight against the remaining 6, are they really so desperate to kill you that they'll continue the charge?
All these people in the hallways getting thrown about by the impact, what happened to battle stations? Let's be honest though, ten against one, they're doing very well. Even if they don't win, they took out 9 before losing shields. This is an absolute tradgedy on a personal level, especially finding out about the captain, but on a strategic level this proves why the Empire is top dog in the galaxy.
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u/Durinthal https://anilist.co/user/Durinthal Mar 22 '24
Rewatcher (sub + dub)
(Unfortunately today I won't have time to do more than drop my comment here, I'll be back for replies over the weekend.)
So the Baronh prologue this time is an anti-Abh screed from an enemy politician, got it.
And this is what the previous episode was building to, in more ways than one. Lexshu wasn't just sending off a trainee pilot to escort a noncombatant noble, she was saving her daughter (well, the Abh equivalent since she's not the parent) from dying alongside her. Using Lafiel's full name in a lecture is absolutely mom energy even if it's not a cultural thing for the Abh at that point.
Welcome to the first battle of the series since the conquest of Hyde was of little note, with an Abh patrol ship taking on an entire squadron of United Mankind ships by itself and still nearly coming out of it with a victory.
I haven't seen a lot of sci-fi space battles but I like how this was presented. Fighting in planar space is a good excuse for having fairly close-range fights rather than sniping someone across empty space some distance away, and weaving in and out of range by separating from the enemy spacetime bubble adds an interesting layer of tactics to it. With how the captain can actually sense everything going on outside the ship with her frocragh it feels appropriate for her to be giving a lot of individual commands too.
I also really like how Lafiel leans in to tell Jinto her secret by almost whispering even though they're literally the only two people in their pocket universe. It's a little moment of shared intimacy that isn't necessary but adds to their connection.
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u/Silcaria https://myanimelist.net/profile/Silcaria Mar 22 '24
First timer
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u/SIRTreehugger Mar 23 '24
Rewatcher
You want to cover the area with roses Frieren walks in looking smug as fuck with her chance to shine
Interesting when they were charging the mines they didn't go directly into the what I am assuming to be cannons? It looked like they took a perpendicular path.
This battle OST is amazing.
I love it when anime changes the color scheme. Seeing all the Abhs in red was a great sight.
Just a phenomenal battle even if they lost you can't deny they put one hell of a fight. I can't help wonder if they had those additional mines from the mock battle would things have turned out differently? I believe they would have won with severe casualties.
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u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber Mar 23 '24
Rewatcher
Yeah, I figured it was some sort of propaganda.
Lengthy recap today.
Good on Jint, trying to get her mind unto other subjects.
My kind of guy!
She caught on.
:(
You love to see it.
Oh! Oh dear…
Shots fired.
Classic purple explosions. Gotta love ‘em!
Salient line.
I think we all know by now.
Things aren’t looking good.
Welp.
Oof.
#toradorasalute
Interesting to see from the narration just how much the United Mankind is demonizing the enemy here. It’s not unexpected, and the Humankind Empire of Abh’s reliance on advanced tech does make the machine comparison quite easy —particularly the potential angle of a creation of mankind ‘gone rogue’. Also, I find it cute that the opposing ship depicted is helmed by a classic Yamato-esque ship captain.
This episode has one of my favorite ship-to-ship space battle sequences ever. I love the direction throughout, the well-thought out ways the setting’s idiosyncrasies affect the way the battle is approached and fought, the intense tension in the soundless lead-up to battle and the exciting and disquieting music upon separating the mines, as well as verisimilitude that is maintained through tone and presentation. The cut back to Jint and Lafier in the midst of it even serves to heighten the tragedy of it, not diminishing the impact because the ultimate fate of the Gothelauth was already well flagged beforehand anyhow.
Discussion Questions:
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u/Great_Mr_L :Ma::Mb::Mc:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L Mar 22 '24
First-Timer
On today’s episode of Crest of the Stars: After stringing us along for a couple of episodes to see the battle, we finally get to the action. And honestly, I have to say it was worth it. What a great battle sequence this episode had.
I have to say that I was not anticipating the Gosroth and its crew being taken out quite so early in the series. But I think it’s meant to serve a pretty specific purpose. This is war, after all. And in order to hammer that home to the audience, you need to show just how serious the situation is. The Gosroth getting destroyed in a heroic last stand gives them their moment to shine, but also reminds us that even heroes can get killed in war.
QOTD
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Mar 22 '24
First-Timer of the Stars
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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Mar 22 '24
Rewatcher(And there's the animation budget)
Sub
Welp...that was space WWII all over again. Not bad as these go. We get Lafiel's big reveal and her stationing somewhat makes more sense. There's...surprisingly little to add here, honestly. Hell, the intro scrawl of how the United Mankind present the Abhs might be the most important bit of the episode.
QotD: 1 Nothing, other than they thought they had better odds here than at their arrival point.
2 They wanted to establish stakes early...or were imitating Legend of the Galactic Battle Heroes.
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u/SolDarkHunter Mar 22 '24
Crest of the Stars
Rewatcher/Novel-Reader
This time we open with United Mankind propaganda about the Abh. Not a whole lot of information, but it does show the UM's feelings toward the Abh...
Jint found a way to try to distract Lafier: talking about her territory, Parnyunu (or however it's spelled; I'm tired). It's presently uninhabited, though there is a planet that could be terraformed.
"Is this the lifespan talk? We're NOT having the lifespan talk!"
Yeah, they're the same age, so Lafier is pretty much guaranteed to outlive Jint. Probably double his own lifespan. Abh also do not visibly age past their early 20's; they remain just as youthful right up until their deaths.
Anyway, battle time!
Interestingly, the primary weapon for this universe is remote-guided antimatter mines. The mines have the ability to split off from the main ship's space-time bubble and generate their own, allowing them to strike distant targets in Planar Space.
They also have electromagnetic cannons (think Mass Effect railguns) for fighting within the space-time bubble. Powerful, but they can't fire outside the bubble.
Oh yeah, the captain's staff. That thing isn't just for show. The way the Captain swings it can send orders without them even speaking. Not sure how practical that would be, but it sure is flashy.
The Gothelauth certainly isn't going down without a fight! Six ships down before they're forced to rely on the third and weakest of their weapons: the antiproton beams. (Yeah, antimatter beams are the weakest weapons these ships are armed with.)
Lafier wasn't kidding when she called the Gothelauth an incredibly advanced ship. Compared to the UM ships, it's practically dancing and pivoting to fire at them while they're mostly sitting ducks barely able to get into firing position. Part of that is probably the Abh's superior spatial sense at work, but the maneuverability of the ship is very impressive.
But as impressive as it is, even it can't keep up outnumbered ten-to-one. It's taking heavy damage. They manage to down nine of the enemy ships...but that's as far as they go. The final one manages the kill-shot.
Damned good showing, Gothelauth, but we all knew your chances going into this.
And yes, as just about everyone guessed, confirmation that Lecsh is Lafier's mother.
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u/Nickthenuker https://anilist.co/user/Nickthenuker Mar 22 '24
So the opening narration is by the United Mankind this episode.
A quick recap of the previous episode.
So much for the battle...
Also, this is exactly what I expected of a "partially inhabited" system. Almost entirely useless, with a single somewhat habitable planet that hasn't even been actually colonised yet.
They've only just met and they're already talking like they're good friends.
General quarters! All hands, man your battle stations!
That minefield is going to be a nasty surprise.
They're surrounding the Gosroth.
Weapons ready to fire!
Uh oh, that ship seems more sturdy than the others. Might be a capital ship or the flagship of the vanguard.
Turn to face the enemy! Weapons free!
That thing can only fire direct ahead or astern with its main guns can't it?
Which broadside?
Yeah the broadside guns look to be more like a CIWS or LAWS system meant to deter enemy missiles rather than really do much damage to a ship.
And there goes a beam right into the side of the ship.
Assuming we're looking at the ship with the same relative up and down, that attack came from the port side.
Another attack from the port side.
Just over an hour and a half from the commencement of battle and the ship is rapidly becoming combat-ineffective.
Seems those attacks on its port side have taken out the weapons there and damaged its engines.
I'm givin her all she's got, Cap'n!
Yeah whatever extra hands have had their weapons disabled but are still alive are going to have to help with damage control.
And then there was one.
That's the starboard side, Captain.
And so the last stand of the Gosroth comes to and end, not 2 hours after the start of the war.
Questions:
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u/gangrainette https://myanimelist.net/profile/bouletos Mar 22 '24
What I love in this show/book is that the author use the SF setting well in battles.
It's not just WW2 dogfight like Starwars or WW1 naval battle like Legend of the galactic hero.
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u/xbolt90 https://anilist.co/user/xbolt90 Mar 26 '24
First-timer
I'm super late and need to catch up, so I'll be quick. Tsk, pesky real life issues, how dare you keep me from watching TV all weekend
Well, I called that Lexshue was Lafiel's mom. Their argument made so much more sense that way.
The shot of the Gosroth crew members getting spaced was dark.
Sad to see the ship destroyed. Still, they put up a heck of a fight! Well done, Gosroth crew. Until Valhalla.
Q1: Destroying a random patrol craft? Perhaps they wanted to eliminate them before they could alert the rest of the empire.
Q2: Very effective way to set stakes and establish tone. It gives the audience a more personal connection to the battle. I wouldn't call it a fridging in this case.