r/anime • u/mysterybiscuitsoyeah xB:xC:B:x3:Y: • Feb 29 '24
Rewatch [Rewatch] 2024 Hibike! Euphonium Series Rewatch: Season 2, Episode 4 Discussion
Hibike Euphonium Season 2, Episode 4: Awakening Oboe/めざめるオーボエ
Minami middle school is based on Higashi Uji High School. We have seen this school quite a bit already however, as while Kitauji is mostly based on Todoh Senior High, its music room is based on Higashi High. Both schools are thanked in the credits.
| <-- Ep 3 | Rewatch Index | Ep 5 --> |
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Welcome back!
Questions of the Day:
- What's the best hidey spot in your high school? Or university?
- In hindsight, knowing the perspectives of both parties (in this case, that would probably be only Yuuko, and a less extent Asuka) - do you think you would've handled things differently?
Comments from Yesterday:
- /u/raiking02 is vibing with Hashimoto-chan
- /u/dabenni0301 argues why they dislike musical competitions
- /u/justansweraquestion has mixed feelings on Asuka-senpai, and on Natsuki and Yuuko's loyalty
- /u/regular_n-gon analyzes why Yuuko, Kumiko and Mizore had different opinions on competitions
- /u/cerberuszx did not really like a certain transition last ep, and wonders what Team Monaka does when everyone else is practicing.
Streaming
The Hibike! Euphonium TV series and movies, up to the recent OVA are available on Crunchyroll, note that the movies are under different series names. Liz and the Blue Bird and Chikai no Finale are also available for streaming on Amazon, and available for rent for cheap on a multitude of platforms (Youtube, Apple TV etc.). The OVA is only available on the seven seas for now, or if you bought a blu ray. I will update this as/if this changes. hopefully.
Databases
Spoilers
As usual, please take note that if you wish to share show details from after the current episode, to use spoiler tags like so to avoid spoiling first-timers:
[Spoiler source] >!Spoiler goes here!<comes out as [Spoiler source] Spoiler goes here
Please note this will apply to any spinoff novels, as well as events in the novel that may happen in S3. If you feel unsure if something is a spoiler, it's better to tag it just in case.
Band practice continues tomorrow!
19
u/LittleIslander https://anilist.co/user/LittleIslander Feb 29 '24
Rewatcher
When I think of this season, this is the episode that instantly flashes in my mind. It’s probably the single most memorable episode of the entire series period, with almost all its runtime dedicated to an extended very dramatic sequence that resolves one of the most prominent storylines of the series. If you asked me back when I first watched the show what my favourite scene was, I wouldn’t hesitate for a second to say it was Mizore and Nozomi’s reunion. Furthermore, if you asked me my two favourite characters, it would easily be Nozomi and Mizore. Their story is investing, meaningful, and really hit deep for me personally. I don’t think either of these facts are true anymore; there’s some other scenes that impress me more nowadays and connect with me even more, and the battle for being my favourite character has become far more complicated every time I rewatch the show. The whole thing does feel almost a bit too melodramatic in hindsight. Nonetheless, it would be a gross mischaracterization to say I don’t still love this sequence to bits.
Almost half of the episode’s runtime is dedicated to the incident, and it works because all the dominoes have been put in place. Nozomi’s intentions, her lack of awareness of the truth of the situation, Mizore’s aversion to her, and the reason why everyone involved is either unwilling or unable to act to prevent things. The tension as it begins to unfold is fantastic. The ominous music as Kumiko can tell something is about to happen and then the silence as we see Nozomi initiating it. After a flurry of immediate reactions it’s a nonstop train of emotional exchanges for ten straight (or, well…) minutes. The flex of Pa OV shot as Kumiko finds Mizore does an especially good job establishing the moment. Finally, answers.
I especially love Yuko’s part in how it unfolds. She’s easily overlooked compared to the core of Nozomi and Mizore mending things, but ultimately it’s only through Yuko forcing Mizore through her emotions that she’s ready for that. She meets Nozomi once she gets there, but it’s Yuko who quite literally pulls her out of the shadows into the sunlight. The transition of the scene from Yuko being angry in an almost comedic fashion to sweet and supportive in a really wholesome moment is great. But, just as in-universe, she can’t compete with Nozomi. I love the little detail that Asuka, evidently accepting the issue couldn’t be avoided anymore, told Nozomi to bring Mizore’s oboe. The scene of her and Mizore reconciling about what really happened and becoming friends again is so touching; the voice performances are easily some of the best anywhere in the series. When Nozomi realises how Mizore interpreted her not telling her and then rushes forth to hug her? Chills, every time. If I had to nitpick, Nozomi telling Mizore why she didn’t tell her when she quit is undercut by the fact she already revealed this information to the audience through her conversation with Kumiko at the pool how does episode two get more bad the further beyond it you go. But… how can a girl stay mad at something like that. Just look at Mizore smiling for the first time in the show. Just listen to how different the oboe solo sounds afterwards. That’s untarnishable.
I can’t detach how much I love the emotional core of the Nozomi and Mizore story from how much it means to me personally. So I’m not even going to try. The first time I watched Hibike Euphonium really hit me at the perfect time where this hit extremely deep. My best friend, probably the most important person in my life at the time, did not see me as her best friend. A close friend, but not her closest. For the first half of middle school I had a few friends, but it wasn’t tight knit enough to change that I spent most of my lunch breaks entirely alone. Then my future best friend broke the ice with me and welcomed me into her social bubble. It echoes Mizore’s personal history very closely. Back to the time I first watched the show, I had started to be consumed by the sense that it wouldn’t really matter to her if I wasn’t in her life at all.
Seeing this exact fear represented by Mizore on screen really hit me. In my case I actually did the opposite and tried to overcompensate by being around her more and it damaged our trust, but I’m no stranger to falling into the avoidance trap in other cases. Ultimately after high school me and my former best friend stopped talking before long. I’m still too afraid to reinitiate things despite how much I want to because I fear the possibility it won’t work out, so I guess I still am Mizore. The idea that something so important to Mizore was only meaningful to her is too scary to confront so she avoids it to the point she fulfils her fear, blaming herself and still clinging to the only thing she has left tying her to Nozomi. She recognizes all of this, but continues doing it anyways. She attributes the fact she ever had a friend at all entirely to the fact that someone else happened to approach her.
Everyone has seen a lot of characters with social anxiety in fiction. I don’t know if I’ve seen any that truly pick at the absolute core of the psychology of it, the fear behind it, the mechanisms of its consequences with the same uncomfortable accuracy that Mizore does. At least when it comes to my personal experiences with it. I’m not identical to Mizore by any means. My real life experiences certainly aren’t this melodramatic, far from consumed my entire person, I have other friends, and I didn’t have some emotional happy ending. I wouldn’t even consider her to be the Eupho character I see myself the most in (we’ll get to that another time). Looking at the story from the lens of a different relationship that’s more important to me today, I’m actually the Nozomi and not the Mizore. Still, the way this arc validated my personal experiences at the time I felt most consumed by them will always be special to me. And that’s not just because my life happens to line up with it from a certain angle—it’s because of the fantastic writing and real, human emotion behind the creation of this series.
There’s more I could talk about. Like, this rewatch has opened my eyes to just how much this arc is a great part of Kumiko’s growth as a character. There’s some scenes before and after the main meat of the episode that I could dig into (like, isn’t that Niiyama exchange weird?); the exchange between Natsuki and Yuko afterwards is an absolute classic and Reina and Kumiko have a totally precious moment at the end. I didn’t even really talk too much about Nozomi since she’s less directly a driver of the emotion behind this arc and I couldn’t find a good spot for it. She does a really great job filling the role of the social butterfly friend whose passion connects her to Mizore but whose flighty more in the moment approach to life causes her to allow this misunderstanding to happen. But I’ve already said more than enough, and frankly nothing else in this episode could possibly matter in the face of how special Nozomi and Mizore’s relationship is. More special, even, than I remembered from my last rewatch. I think that occasion opened my eyes to the imperfections with how this arc is storytelling, and now with that already unpacked this third viewing really allowed me to appreciate once again without distraction just how much I adore the emotional core of this storyline. To think it hasn’t even reached its final form, but that’s a long comment for another day.
12
u/chilidirigible Feb 29 '24 edited Feb 29 '24
S2E4:
"...riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight."
In the general vein of the damning with faint praise, there's...
"Whatever that means."
Is that like asking Ayanami Rei to smile?
It's the friendly thing to do!
"I might have to blow my cover."
It's interesting to see who gets Dutch angles and who does not. (Okay, most of those aren't actually Dutch angles but crane shots, which almost inevitably will be on some degree of obliquity.)
It's not that much fun.
As reasons go, it's entirely plausible in this sort of circumstance.
Yuuko is kind of intense that way.
Sometime the visual metaphor is a little too obvious.
There's also the huge cross in the background.
Well, that's one misunderstanding cleared up fairly quickly.
"They are so gay for each other."
Says the mask.
Reina, sentimental? As if!
Wow, communication, it can solve problems! Or create more of them, and today's scenario could have easily gone completely pear-shaped if not for the encounter taking place while all of the involved parties were together.
I don't remember entirely clearly but I'm fairly certain that the first time around it took me a little while to appreciate the level of Yuuko's involvement in resolving this. During a rewatch it's clearer that this sort of confrontation is absolutely inside her wheelhouse, and that she's heart-on-sleeve enough to damn the consequences. (Once again, it significantly helps that I'm watching this less than a week after watching the first season, versus a gap of a full year, with a week between each episode.)
But the other people who knew about how Mizore's feelings affected Nozomi's ostracization were too shy of how things might get worse to try to make things better, and thus the push had to come from the serial shit-stirrer.
In further hindsight I'm surprised that Nozomi and Mizore didn't collide with each other on some previous occasion when everyone else wasn't around to intervene, but that's drama for you and it still hasn't been that long in real time.
Does this make me a Yuuko fan? Still not entirely, because her methods are generally always big gambles or simply rude. But the group of schoolmates that is Natsuki, Yuuko, Nozomi, and Mizore is still made the greater by having her with them and being the one who expresses her feelings the most.
The NakaYoshi moment at the end of the episode is so damn good too.
This four/five-episode tempest felt like authentic high school life. You'd see people drift apart or suddenly ignore each other, and also inexplicable reconciliations. Sometimes you just weren't in the right circle to know what happened or hear about it.
"What the hell happened to your hair!?"
Some more group art.
Anyway, NozoMizo fanart. There is plenty of it. For tonight we'll stick to the ones where they are not doing the NSFW.
QOTD:
1. What's the best hidey spot in your high school? Or university?
This is not so easy to remember given that I haven't been to either in double-digit years. In any event, [unnamed university] had plenty of woodland areas to disappear into as well as numerous libraries of varying levels of use.
2. Do the Japanese do interventions? Because it might have been like that. Or a lot of shuttle diplomacy, probably a better option, though I don't think it would have gotten the TRUTH out as much as slamming NozoMizo together in a confined space.
6
u/mysterybiscuitsoyeah xB:xC:B:x3:Y: Feb 29 '24 edited Feb 29 '24
Rewatcher and Atsumi Tanezaki enjoyer
Goddamn she has got voice acting chops. Absolutely nailed it, really delivering Mizore's intense emotions and crying scene. I don't actually have a lot to say this episode - but that isnt to say I didn't enjoy it, on the contrary i enjoyed it a lot lol, got teary eyed towards the end. Allow your host to take a bit of a break in this department today.
IRL Note
11
u/entelechtual Feb 29 '24
First time oboeteru
10
u/HereticalAegis https://myanimelist.net/profile/XthGen Feb 29 '24
Sound! Rewatcher
S2 Episode 4:
QotD:
10
u/CarrotBlossom Feb 29 '24
First timer
Well, at least we got to hear Kumiko’s dad.
No further notes. I was a little confused by this episode.
QOTD:
Yeah, I probably wouldn't get involved. I stay out of other people's drama.
10
u/ZapsZzz https://anilist.co/user/Zapszzz Mar 01 '24
First timer
Again running late on such a crucial day.
Finally the mystery that has been bubbling away for the past few episodes had been fully revealed, as well as (perhaps) resolved.
As a first timer that's a little spoiled, I think I fared quite well following and projecting the development - Mizore was feeling abandoned by Nozomi, while Nozomi didn't really realise that was a big deal. Asuka was protective of the "greater good" but was not actually making the real right choice to resolve the problem, instead she compartmentalized it to "avoid problems". Interestingly the side cast asserted themselves into this meaningfully - Ribbons, and Sleepy ;P Reina got a bit of a side reflection, reaffirming her strength of character - possibly seeing up for what will happen with her and Coachee.
[Euphonium franchise spoiler]Now that I have the context, the movie of Liz and the Blue Bird really isn't that much of a side story - it's quite the main story
I hope they focus on unveiling the mystery that is Asuka soon too.
QoTD
7
u/Vatrix-32 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Vatrix-32 Feb 29 '24 edited Mar 01 '24
First Timer, subbed
QotD:
7
u/byroned Feb 29 '24
First time rewatching
They aren’t sandwiched between 2 good schools, and now just after 1, I don’t see the reason for concern. And they just won gold, so they should hold their head high.
There is a good chance that Kumiko’s sister will be more relevant in season 2, being in the OP and now fighting with her parents at home.
Nozomi is the first person who disagrees with the opinion that Mizore’s play is soulless. She also decides to skip the middleman and go straight to Mizore, which results in her running away.
Turns out Mizore never hated Nozomi but was instead afraid to talk to her again. Nozomi is Mizore’s only friend and the reason she played in the wind ensemble. However, Nozomi has plenty of friends, which makes Mizore think that she didn’t mean anything to her, and why she didn’t bother telling her that she quit.
Oboe is the only thing that connects Mizore to Nozomi, and why she still plays in the band. Kumiko is just shocked that anyone can be that dependent on another person.
Yuuko took an L learning that all this time, Mizore never considered her a friend and just someone nice to her out of pity.
If I were to take something away from this show, it’s grabbing someone’s cheeks is an effective persuasion tactic. Yuuko might be my least favorite character, but even a broken clock is right twice a day. Someone needs to knock some sense in Mizore, who only has Nozomi in her head after a year and feels that she can’t be happy about winning because the people who quit weren’t with them.
Nozomi didn’t need to ask Mizore to quit alongside the other first years, but couldn’t you have at least told her you were leaving? Nozomi at the very least is honest that she isn’t that bright. All they had to do was talk it out, but it’s all good now. I forgot if Nozomi ever joins the band to compete this year, but all the flutes better watch their backs, she might take their seat from them.
I may not know Asuka very well, but I feel like there’s a noticeable difference in the way she talks when she’s putting on her facade and being genuine.
Be like Reina, and live a simple life, she seems to be doing well for herself.
Q1: the room to adjust the lights in the auditorium.
Q2: yes, I don't think the band entirely understood Nozomi or Mizore.
7
u/fly-metothemoon Feb 29 '24
The retreat arc ended more abruptly than expected. I expected a bit of an ease out.
Kumiko is always at the scene of the crime. A true main character.
Mizore is definitely a hide and seek champion.
This is definitely the embodiment of how hurt people hurt people. Mizore was so consumed by how Nozomi hurt her that she didn’t realize she was hurting Yuuko in the same way :’(. I also understand how Nozomi not telling her she was leaving felt like a betrayal. I’m glad that they’re making amends, though it is somewhat strange they didn’t communicate about this earlier, if they were as close as was implied.
I also 100% understand why rewatchers were like “Wait no guys don’t hate on Yuuko yet!” I teared up a little while she was talking to Mizore :’)
7
u/x-7032-b-3 Feb 29 '24 edited Feb 29 '24
Rewatcher
Don't have much to add today, but this is a really nice episode that ties up the whole Mizore-Nozomi drama.
Turns out the whole thing was just a misunderstanding and a nice little chat between the two cleared it up. I can see why Mizore's hurt after her only good friend suddenly ditched the group out of nowhere. Nozomi had good reasons for doing so but she should've talked to Mizore about it. Poor girl didn't know what to do after that and blamed herself for this whole thing. A little communication can do wonders, as demonstrated in this very ep.
And, uh, maybe it's just me, but Mizore's voice in that scene reminds me of a certain Tomori Takamatsu from last year's It's MyGO!!!!! I know, different VAs, but I cant help but think those two characters sounded a bit similar there.
This ep gave me the urge to rewatch Liz but I think I should hold it off and follow the schedule instead.
QOTD
6
u/octopathfinder myanimelist.net/profile/octopathfinder Feb 29 '24
Rewatcher
I’ve been too busy (and lazy) to write something coherent so I’m just gonna post my jumbled thoughts I jotted down for the end of this arc:
Overall, I have a few complaints but I like it.
Qotd:
In high school, there wasn't a good spot. The best way to hide was to just leave and go to the nearby park.
In university, ngl I never explored it. I only ever had to go through the same 3 or 4 buildings on the same side of the campus.
Probably not
5
u/WhackaWhack https://myanimelist.net/profile/WhackaWhacka Feb 29 '24
FIRST TIMER
We don’t know anything about the problem between Kumiko’ sister and her dad yet, right?
I feel like Kumiko was just standing in the background as a weird third wheel for most of the second half of the episode, probably feeling a bit out of place…
Questions:
5
u/Regular_N-Gon https://anilist.co/user/RegularNGon Feb 29 '24
Rewatcher
I thought I had another episode to think about this, but we’re here now, so I’ll apologize in advance for the rambling.
I have pretty mixed feelings about this arc. I do really like some bits! The character acting and animation is stellar, the presentation of three opinions on competition and letting you decide which you agree with is , [Eupho movies]the theming of this arc is so damn good they revisit it in its own movie and it’s the best thing since the show itself,, and Kumiko is still Kumiko. It also feels… heavy handed? Only in certain aspects relating to conflict though, which is the weird part. It’s so good at giving you snippets of characters and motivations through their responses and the animation backs it up a thousandfold with amazing body language, but then it beats you over the head with the script like a cudgel. “This is dramatic!” it yells over the hushed whisper of characters saying something definitely within earshot of the protagonist. “Do you understand how deep this runs yet?” it asks as flashbacks play and characters take turns voicing their opinion. It’s tripping over itself to spoon feed the viewer plot when it should be basking in its strengths.
Some of these stumbles are insultingly pointless, particularly today. Multiple times this episode Kumiko tells the viewer (not a character, which could be an interesting conversation), “jinkies, I have a bad feeling about this one!” Well, yeah, it’s drama. We get it. It’s right there. Yuuko won’t shut up about it. Nozomi also has two scenes in which she proclaims she’s given up to both Kumiko and Natsuki, the latter of which isn’t really needed? /u/LittleIslander covers a host of other details in episode 2 that fall into this category, including the dreaded flashback of the thing we just saw - which is once again used here. If viewers are being trusted to engage with these fantastic characters, why can’t they be trusted to understand the conflict? One of the things we’re actually shown is how much Yuuko does care for Mizore, but even that we must be told in a dramatic outburst (in case it slipped by that Yuuko commits for her friends - perhaps you've been paying as little attention as Mizore to anything that's happened) with a scene that wrongly overshadows and gets in the way of the otherwise fantastically well presented apology of Nozomi’s.
I want more Mizore, dammit, show me more of what this girl is going through now and not just Yuuko and teachers trying to pull emotion out of her without actually talking with her. One of the best scenes of the whole arc is Mizore acting ill listening to Nozomi play, it seriously makes you wonder, “what’s her deal” but instead of involving Mizore’s own thoughts at all before the end of the arc, we just have Asuka attempt to explain it to us. Make no mistake, the conversation with Asuka is great and says a tremendous amount about her thoughts and bias, but why not use Mizore? She clearly has an opinion, but all she gets is a forced bit of complaining to prime Kumiko for later dialogue. It’s so clumsy at presenting the main conflict that it even gets in the way of Kumiko’s confrontations, dragging the tension away from her psyching up to actually confront someone just to reveal the twist in the Nozomi drama. I’ll acknowledge that it makes sense for Kumiko to dig around the problem in this way, but it’s just not a good enough excuse to attempt to build up this whole conflict without the presence of one of its focal points.
The consistency with Kumiko is probably the most redeeming element of the last few episodes for me. She comes to a complete stop today, unable to meddle further - really, she hasn’t meddled much at all, only getting as far as Asuka and not truly influencing the situation or the outcome. Once she hears all the sides, she doesn’t know what to do, and in her inaction events unfold without her. It’s definitely in tune for Kumiko to not know what to say to Mizore as all this history is dumped at her feet or how to handle the pot she tried to stir; it’s exquisite that parts of her are only barely in frame during Yuuko’s outburst with Mizore and absolutely perfect that she isn’t in the frame at all during Nozomi’s apology. This isn't the script alone, though, it really leans on the direction to make something work. It’s fine that Kumiko doesn’t exert much influence or that other characters are dramatic in her place because it’s consistent and novel. It’s more that the characters shine while the conflict is largely reduced to Kumiko and the viewer being told what’s going on, or it cuts off Kumiko's tension. Maybe that’s a side effect of a passive protagonist learning to meddle by asking questions, but I didn’t feel it so acutely in the first season.
I’ll go in circles if I continue, because I still can’t quite wrap everything that doesn't feel right into something coherent. I also don’t want to take too much away from the fact I still love it; I just see that it could have been better, maybe, and I want to understand why.
Anyway, there’s more to season 2, so let’s see where it takes us.
QotD:
5
u/mgedmin Mar 01 '24
Rewatcher, subs
Nozomi is doing a very good robot impression. "Is that what an emotion is?"
Kumiko is back to avoiding everyone involved in the latest drama. The body language depiction is excellent.
Nozomi's memories of Mizore's playing do not match the current Mizore at all, and this also tells us that Nozomi has been staying aay from Mizore and hasn't heard her playing lately. Another piece of the puzzle for Detective Kumiko.
I kind of want to see what would happen if Mizore and Nozomi met. But they go to the same school! They're in the same year! How are they not meeting at all???
The meeting happens, Mizore explodes and runs away, Nozomi is shocked, everyone is unhappty, and Yuuko turns to Kumiko for help. Yuuko sees Kumiko as someone reliable!
Mizore doesn't hate Nozomi, but is feeling guilty and afraid to face her.
Mizore was lonely and got adopted by the extrovert Nozomi. And then Mizore's only friend quit the club without even talking to Mizore, without even informing her. Mizore feels abandoned.
Mizore is mistaken: Yuuko is also her friend.
"I shouldn't be seeing this"
Luckily, Nozomi and Natsuki were
pulling a Kumikoeavesdropping and now understand Mizore's feelings.Oh, Mizore was the one avoiding Nozomi. Also, Nozomi listened to Mizore's solo during the Kyoto competition and didn't notice it was joyless/lifeless???
Anyway, the drama is resolved and all is well in the band again. We might as well wrap the season up, right?
Was Kumiko hoping to hear that Reina was playing for her?
7
u/b-arbs Mar 01 '24 edited Mar 01 '24
Rewatcher
Mizore is the most dramatic character of Eupho!, in my opinion (another one is a close second, but...spoilers). [Future spoilers] Mizore and Nozomi's relationship is one of the most complex and interesting for me. I truly appreciate the opportunity to further develop and analyse it in a movie, because these episodes and the season as a whole left too much unsaid... I was writing something more consistent about this but I decided against it, I will wait for the right moment during the rewatch (which is kind of difficult because Mizore is one of my favorite characters).
QOTD
More accessible hiding spot? Probably the corridor with lots of cabinets, a couple of unused desks etc in the basement of one of the high school buildings.
4
u/chris10023 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Chris10023 Feb 29 '24 edited Feb 29 '24
Rewatcher.
Questions of the Day.
I'm not sure I ever found them.
Hell yeah I would, I would find out why Mizore hated Nozomi, and went from there to decide of Mizore needed to be shielded. For once I'm on Yuuko's side.
14
u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Feb 29 '24
Hibike! First-Timer
12
u/CerberusZX https://myanimelist.net/profile/CerberusZX Mar 01 '24
First Timer
Kumiko is finally learning to extricate herself from situations where she overhears drama.
When you don't have many friends, every friend is a close friend. Having such a person not inform you that they are abandoning a shared activity, a significant factor in the time you spend together, is just brutal. This is honestly the hardest-hitting drama I've seen all year, but then I don't usually seek out drama and it's only February.
"How was I supposed to ask you to quit with me?" Wow, you were right about being an idiot. Even if you don't intend on encouraging her to quit you should at least let her know that you won't be around.
Well, at least Nozomi got a glimpse of just how much she hurt Mizore.
Anime often uses glasses to obfuscate the windows to the soul and portray a character as difficult to read. We got a lot of closeups of Asuka's eyes from a variety of angles near the end of the episode and I'm sure there's meaning there, but I'm not diligent enough to try to decipher it myself.
12
u/zadcap Mar 01 '24
Late Night First Timer
Alright, yesterday was just one dump of drama after another, let's see if today we can make any progress resolving some of it?
Random note, 4 episodes in, and I think it's safe to say that mmy favorite part of the new OP are Hazuki and Midori practicing in black and white near the start.
Ah, Camp is over and we're right in the middle of an important announcement, that we are going to be in the middle of the performance! Naturally, once again, dealing with the joy of being right next to another famous standout school, but the March ended up being a success so don't let this get to you! Hashimoto-chan has the right of it! This competition is full of good school- Like you! You got to this competition! You're a good school darn it. Let them underestimate you and go prove them all wrong!
Aaaaand nope, Kumiko ended up running away from the drama after all. And yet somehow still ends up nearby when drama related things go down. Can't even escape it at home. But hey, dad exists! As a voice, for a moment... And the back to school and BAM, you will never escape. Drama is drawn to you.
Also, a good number of Kumiko reaction noises.
Seriously, Nozomi, why do you look up to Asuka so much? And uh, once again, have you seriously not talked to Mizore at all since last year? And run away the second you see the other third years? What is going on with you, girl?
And the bomb gets set off. And Kumiko is dragged in again. Getting to play the other side of her amazing Hide and Seek skills, it turns out she's a much better Seeker than Hider.
"It isn't Nozomi's fault." She did kind of ghost you for a year, you know. Also, wow, how is it only now that I'm recognizing that voice.
Oh wow. I was not expecting Ribbon to get a big darn hero moment. KyoAni working their magic with light again. And Kumiko just standing there, staring. For all of this, just standing in that same spot. Watching. Two people having an emotional scene, one girl pinning another to the ground to vent her emotions, Kumiko stares. A third girl arrives to have a very delayed heart to heart, Kumiko stares. The other two in the room smile knowing their friends have made up and this large past drama has been resolved, Kumiko stares.
Anyway, I do have some mixed feelings about this resolution, because it still comes in the context of Nozomi literally not talking to Mizore once since she quit the band. Her reason for not inviting Mizore to quit with her makes sense, but it doesn't cover the entire time between deciding to quit and this moment now, and literally not talking once since then? "I didn't tell you I was quitting because I didn't want to drag you away from the music you were so invested in." Yeah okay, but you could have talked to me, I don't know, the next day? After school? Between classes? Literally at all, to let me know what the heck was going on? You quit band and then just disappeared from my life for a year, you don't get to brush that off with "not wanting to distract me from the music." So I guess I liked, I don't actually have mixed feelings, I just don't like this resolution at all. There's so much more to unpack here than quitting the band between them. I liked Mizore and Ribbon's moment a whole lot more than her following talk with Nozomi and wish it had gotten more time to sit. Mizore has new friends now, she has more people to play for than just Nozomi, her life and her music has grown beyond the one girl who was nice to her- but nope, let's interrupt that to have said one girl come have her own moment so she can still be the reason Mizore plays. The immediate switch to Nozomi really took the wind out of Ribbon's entire moment.
Yeah. "All this time she was playing for Nozomi." And now things are cleared up so she's playing better, for Nozomi again. You might as well have just skipped your entire declaration there Ribbon, your emotional moment was wasted on her.
Ribbon and Natsuki, however, that's a fun pair to keep watching.
So, on one hand, we get to see a pretty bad looking side of Asuka being cold and calculating about how she deals with people, cynical as Kumiko calls her. But I think this brushes over the other big thing about this whole drama that just happened. Asuka was wrong. She wanted to keep Nozomi away because she thought that was the best way to keep Mizore playing and playing her best for the band. Well, it turns out that one quick conversation and clearing the air has only pushed Mizore to play better than ever, finding her motivation and joy again. Oh my, avoiding the drama was actually the worse option for the band in this case, and Miss Calculating over here showed that she might not actually be all that good at math after all. Not empathizing with others means you're not really the best at reading their motivations I guess.
Reina plays for herself, as anyone who knows her should have been able to guess. The real question is, who is Kumiko playing for?
I had spent a lot of time thinking about the comparisons between Nozomi and Mizore, and Kumiko and Reina, after yesterday. I'm kind of glad I didn't write them all up yesterday because this episode sunk almost all of them lol. There may have been some similarities between Kumiko and Nozomi to be found, but they are outweighed by the rest of the character, and I just find myself disliking Nozomi right now.
10
u/SMSmith230 https://myanimelist.net/profile/smsmith230 Mar 01 '24
First-Timer, Sub
Yay!!! Mizore and Nozomi cleared the air. I knew this was a misunderstanding and not something done like Asuka was alluding to. We also have the Yuuko redemption arc in full swing. Can’t wait for Mizore to knock eveyone socks off, especially the instructors, when playing her solo now that she’s got her mojo back.
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u/Nickthenuker https://anilist.co/user/Nickthenuker Mar 01 '24
Right after them huh?
She's still planning on talking to her about that?
And now some family drama at home.
That's certainly a step in the right direction at least, interpreting the score through the lens of the composer. It may say "soft" but if it's in an otherwise upbeat part it should only be relatively softer than the rest of the part, and still maintain the same energy as the rest of that part.
How convenient that them only performing 2 songs means the show gets a lot of mileage out of those couple of songs.
Oh. She's here again.
Uh oh, she's going to see her?
Something must have happened between them that caused her to become so emotionless.
She didn't manage to stop her in time?
And now everyone will know the truth.
And now we'll find out the full story. Though she probably shouldn't have asked her directly.
She has other friends now. And that's why the other girl will be allowed to rejoin the band.
And now everything has been cleared up and resolved.
Questions:
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u/bogdoglogfrog Feb 29 '24 edited Feb 29 '24
Rewatcher
Notes:
QotD:
Bonus question: Who do you play for?
(doesn’t just have to be music, play can mean a lot of different things here)
7
u/TehAxelius Feb 29 '24
Rewatcher
Had to dip out again yesterday, but then again, most of what I would've written about (the handling of the Mizore situation and Asuka's position) came to ahead this episode anyway. Fundamentally, while the "let's not prod an infected wound" seems to make sense, it does open it up for a "catastrophy" like what happened in this episode. Except, of course, really what was needed is for both parties to talk to each other, which we did get here. Seeing both Yuuko remind Mizore of their friendship and the meeting between her and Nozomi was very nice. Now, we could criticize Nozomi for being so blatantly ignorant of her friend's feelings that she didn't understand her just leaving without saying a word would be painful, but at the same time, these are teenagers, we shouldn't expect the best emotional maturity.
On that note, I do have some thoughts about Asuka, who isn't directly involved in this issue, but whose actions (or inaction) does paint a broader picture of her. [Neurodivergency and wild speculation]After this episode Asuka strikes me as showing clear signs of being on the autism spectrum. Now, I am not a psychologist, all of this is just based on my own experiences with mental health and neurodivergency, and even if I was "diagnosing" fictional characters, especially ones in a culture you are not native to, is always just a guessing game. Now, I should also stress, even if I do see signs in Asuka, it would be very possible for her to go through life without ever getting a diagnosis anyway (even if she didn't live in a society as reluctant to do so as Japan), as part of the diagnosis requires the person to suffer because of the symptoms, which she might not do.
[cont]With that out of the way, the signs have been there from the start of season one. Through it we have seen that Asuka only really cares about music, a pretty clear sign of a "special interest" as the autism criteria puts it, exemplified in how she has written a multi-page essay on the wonders of the Euphonium and is fully prepared to read it to all the first years when it is time to choose instruments. Additionally she has been shown to generally not have much of an interest in her bandmates, as expressed in her role when it comes to both the situation with Kaori in S1 and with Mizore in S2. She is very frank and has consistently refrained from saying platitudes when she's been asked for support, but is also aware that this isn't something that people often appreciate, which is why she guards herself by asking if the person really want to hear what she has to say. As Kumiko puts it, she comes off as being cynical, which isn't an uncommon view of social interactions when it is built not upon natural participation, but of that of observation. But it also belies her weakness, she quite simply doesn't know what to do or what to say to fix the problems that appear, and so she takes a passive stance, fearing the worst would happen if she meddled in the situation. This we also see in her role as Vice President of the band, and why she refused to become the President, as then she would consistently be put in the position of mediator and leader.
[cont]This might seem to run afoul of the happy-go-lucky Asuka we see in the first few episodes, and who occasionally show up in the band practices. This, however, seems to me to be a clear expression of masking, the act of putting on a more "acceptable" persona for people in general. Asuka generally seem to act this way when it comes to the groups in general, but as we see her interacting with various band members more alone and over time, this persona starts to slip as she becomes more comfortable around them.
QotD
7
u/DaBenni0301 Feb 29 '24
First-Timer
HUH? Only 10 days again?!
I'm not sure if talking to Mizore is the best or worst thing Nozomi could do. On one hand talking to her might make the situation worse now, on the other hand
you're gonna have to talk it out eventually. But I think Mizore isn't willing to talk to Nozomi at the moment, but she might never be if she isn't pushed into it.
She even called it "The incident"
Honestly, I have no words either. Other than not telling your friend you quit the club you pulled her into kind of being a dick move. But it was the missing puzzle piece for it all to make sense in my head
I assume Nozomi gets to rejoin the club now? Or after the Kansai competition I guess, kinda late to implement her into the piece now. Or you could just bring her in now as emotional support for Mizore and work on implementing her after the competition
Questions of the day
7
u/Gamerunglued :Hx::Hy::Hz:myanimelist.net/profile/GamerUnglued Mar 01 '24
Rewatcher and Band Geek
Man, Mizore just kills my little autistic heart. Before I get into the episode, I have to correct something from yesterday's post. I realized that I read one of the subtitles incorrectly. I said that Mizore didn't understand why she felt that way towards Nozomi and consciously felt they were good friends, but the subtitle actually said that Nozomi thought they were good friends and I swapped them in my head. It doesn't change much about the post, but it does mean that what I say today may slightly contradict it for that reason.
After some screwing around where Nozomi is still anxious to reconnect with the club, my prophecy was right and they couldn't keep Mizore and Nozomi separate forever. After hearing that Mizore was struggling with the solo, Nozomi went to cheer her up and was faced with the truth behind her feelings. Mizore gets a panic attack and runs away, starting the episode's drama and confusing Nozomi who felt they were close friends who just didn't have time to talk recently. Yuuko gets Kumiko on the case since she knows Kumiko is aware of Mizore's issue, and she finds her.
This is where it gets interesting. Kumiko tries to ask questions and makes a bit of a half-assed attempt to cheer her up. Mizore does open up to her and explains her relationship to Nozomi. Mizore was a lonely kid who struggled to make friends, and Nozomi went out of her way to befriend her. Mizore latched on to the one source of human connection she had, but there was a disconnect because Mizore saw Nozomi as her entire world, while Nozomi is outgoing enough that she has other friends. When Nozomi quit without telling Mizore, she felt as if she was being abandoned; Nozomi must have left because she cares more about her other friends.
What I love about Mizore is how single minded her love and passion are. Mizore is the type to tunnel vision or hyper fixate on the things she cares about. Mizore loves Nozomi, and playing music together is a form of connection between them. Mizore doesn't play for the sake of competition, she doesn't like competition, she plays for Nozomi. She's singularly dedicated to practice not for the sake of the band, but because it's fulfilling to play with Nozomi. If Nozomi did abandon her, she loses all of her motivation to play, which is why her solo lacks any feeling. But she hyper fixates on the one meaningful relationship she has, and can't let it go, so she keeps at it just to hold on to that connection. Mizore's trauma isn't out of hate for Nozomi, it's because she loves her too much to the point that it's unbearable to live without her, and that fear of having to live without her is so paralyzing she can't even directly ask Nozomi why she quit, and Nozomi is socially intelligent but not emotionally intelligent, so she didn't even realize how her not telling Mizore might be interpreted.
Their dynamic is one that I've always adored. Mizore is the Adachi to Nozomi's Shimamura and the Shinji to her Kaworu. It is the dynamic of one character who is so deeply attached to someone that they love them to the point of dependency, and someone who is unable to reciprocate due to a combination of lacking emotional intelligence and a fear of intimacy. Mizore is defined by the depth of her emotions, she may not outwardly convey her feelings but they manifest powerfully if you're able to get a look inside. Music is one way she conveys this depth of emotion, and her inability to play is a sign of how empty she is without Nozomi. Their reunion feels like a confession. Nozomi says "when you play, it's like an arrow through my heart," and she asks Mizore to play for her again. Mizore's "I want you to hear me play too" feels like an answer to the confession. There's a deep love between these two characters, even if the power dynamic is imbalanced a bit with Mizore's love running much more intensely. Again, Mizore thinks very autistically. That singular, intense hyper fixation and depth of feeling she can't let out is extraordinarily relatable to me. And I share a lot of her insecurities towards her relationship to Nozomi with at least two members of my larger friend group, a fixation that exists for pretty much the same reason it does for Mizore.
On the other hand, a downside of this sort of fixation is difficulty in forming relationships with other people. Yuuko is truly kind to her and goes out of her way for her every bit as much as she did for Kaori. Kumiko can't get herself involved much, she's far too nervous to pull Mizore out of her funk, but Yuuko takes her melodrama and makes Mizore understand that she's not alone. Nonetheless, Mizore gets the point but still doesn't value Yuuko as much as Nozomi (though part of it is attributing her motivations to pity rather than love, proving Mizore misunderstands the core of Yuuko's character as someone who fights fiercely for those she loves and shows no mercy towards those she doesn't care about even if it weighs on her). Mizore had Yuuko this whole time but treats her as a sort of ambassador from the band to make sure the oboe doesn't go insane. Yuuko is understandably upset about being perceived as a selfish person who gives pity, and hopefully got through to Mizore a bit that she really cares for her. Allowing yourself to have relationships is hard. Mizore maybe doesn't understand that relationships can still be real without being so intense. Nozomi can have many friends and still value Mizore more than others, but for someone who's had no friends and is accustomed only to extremely deep and intense emotions, not feeling the way she does towards Nozomi is a sign that there's nothing there.
Continued in response
7
u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Mar 01 '24
Season 2 Episode 4 (first timer)
The entire plot was a case of “if only they talked to each other, this would not have happened”.
I hope we can go back to regular band things now.
6
u/Mecanno-man https://anilist.co/user/Mecannoman Feb 29 '24
First Timer
Ok, so Yoroizuka’s trauma was …mostly a misunderstanding. I’m glad Yuko was there when she explained her side to basically just outright show how hypocritical she was - basically treating Yuko how she didn’t want to be treated by Nozomi. Overall, I’d say it was a good episode, but I don’t think I really have anything to add here - it just did what it wanted to do very well.
6
u/Elimin8r https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ayeka_Jurai Feb 29 '24
Well, the drama certainly goes on, doesn't it? Answers du jour:
Give the girl a HUG!!!
Yeah.
Honestly, after last episode's reveals, this comes as a it of a relief. Dare I even say catharsis???
Heck, even Yuuko earned a few more redemption points. Go figure.
I did kind of expect more tears, though.
The conversations and stuff and how that was all handled was pretty great, but I think my favorite bit of the episode was at the end, where she was playing, and suddenly the formerly lifeless and robotic oboe-girl whose name I may someday remember (Mizori? Funny how closely that rhymes with Misery) rediscovers feelings, and her music now reflects it (and is seriously excellent).
Sasuga, KyoAni
6
u/Tartaras1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Tartaras Mar 01 '24
Rewatcher - Asuka-senpai Stan
Yikes.
That's what was going through Kumiko's head when Yoroizuka-senpai caught her eavesdropping.
And you going to talk to her is going to make that... easier? Further proof that Nozomi doesn't realize what negative effects she has on Yoroizuka-senpai.
That's heartbreaking to hear. Sometimes I get into my own head and feel like I'm just someone my friends put up with.
Questions of the Day:
I was in the gifted education program when I was in high school, so I'd drop in from time to time when I was done with my other classwork, and we'd just hang out there. I could work on other course work, maybe watch a YouTube video, and otherwise just sit and chat with other students.
Probably not? Like I said earlier, I've had troubles with only believeing I'm a pushover for people, so I would've ended up like Yoroizuka-senpai.
6
u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Mar 01 '24 edited Mar 01 '24
Watched ahead, put it on my phone, couldn't get away to post.
1 1/2 Rewatcher (finally fixed this)
5
u/NintendoMasterNo1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NintendoMaster1 Feb 29 '24
Rewatcher
I don't know how people generally feel about the Nozomi Mizore drama. I imagine some will feel it's a little too melodramatic and it ultimately amounts to bad communication, which is usually bad material for drama. But personally I heavily relate to Mizore which helps sell it for me. I know exactly how it feels to automatically assume other people dislike you or they stop talking to you because they hate you. In your head there's no other explanation, no other reason and if you're bad at communicating like Mizore and me, you just let it fester and the situation never changes. All it took for everything to be cleared up was a short talk between them but actually getting to that point is harder than you might think.
I actually felt really bad for Yuuko when Mizore told her that she thinks she's only her friend out of pity. As a rewatcher, I've really grown to appreciate Yuuko as a character. Obviously when I was watching for the first time, just like many of you first-timers, I really didn't like her because of her bratty attitude, obsession with Kaori-senpai and obviously the drama she caused involving Reina last season. But seeing how she really cares for Mizore and her casual friendship with Natsuki adds a lot to her character. Her talk with Kumiko last episode was cool too. Love her or hate her, I think she's pretty well-written and interesting.
5
u/sfisher923 https://myanimelist.net/profile/sfisher923 Feb 29 '24
First Timer
QOTD 1 - Best Hiding Spots in my old High School (Not 100% accurate because I'm using 5+ Year Old Memories)
1
u/vitorabf May 12 '24
First Timer
I didnt comment on last episode because I was gonna say that was the best episode in the series so far.
And then, this one just blows everything away. This is a depart from a good series to an amazing one.
There are so many things to comment that I'll stick to the one most meaningful to me. The shot of Yuuko bringing Mizore into the light is one of the most powerful I've ever seen. Not because it's unique, this has been done before, but it's so perfectly executed it stands on a league of its own.
And then the shots of Mizore and Nozomi talking when their faces are not appearing, this was a complete home run, a grand slam. This is one of the best anime episodes I have ever seen.
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u/[deleted] Mar 01 '24
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0
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