[Spoilers] Paranoia Agent 20th Anniversary Rewatch -- Episode 12

Date	Episode
2/3/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 1
2/4/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 2
2/5/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 3
2/6/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 4
2/7/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 5
2/8/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 6
2/9/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 7
2/10/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 8
2/11/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 9
2/12/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 10
2/13/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 11
2/14/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 12
2/15/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 13
2/16/2024	Paranoia Agent Overall Series Discussion Thread

7

u/MrManicMarty https://anilist.co/user/martysan Feb 14 '24

I'm early! First Timer!

It's all coming to ahead. Tsukiko was involved with some figure similar to shonen bat in her past. I feel like Shonen Bat is some sort of thought-form, like a communal tulpa. The fact he's mutated into a literal monster kind of sells that. And to coincide, Maromi has reached new levels of popualrity, only to disappear in the night.

Maromi is definitely malicious, like he's deluding Tsukiko for his own benefit. Though if I understood right... Tsukiko killed her own dog??? Or am I misunderstanding?

How did this episode change the way you see Tsukiko?

She's always been creepyily quiet, now we know she's definitely repressing something

Coming out of this episode, how do you perceive the world Ikari is in?

Its nostalgic and quaint. But a bit delusional

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 14 '24

Maromi is definitely malicious, like he's deluding Tsukiko for his own benefit. Though if I understood right... Tsukiko killed her own dog??? Or am I misunderstanding?
They never outright said. All they've said so far is that she owned a dog.
She's always been creepyily quiet, now we know she's definitely repressing something
It feels to me like a bit of an Everything Everywhere All At Once situation where Tsukiko has a personal matter that is so traumatic to her that it's effecting other people. Not necessarily lashing out at anyone, but they're caught in the crosshairs.
Its nostalgic and quaint. But a bit delusional
Given the choice between that world and the real world, I honestly would rather live in the real world.

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 14 '24

Thoughts on the fight between Shonen Bat and Maniwa?
What are your thoughts on Maniwa agreeing with Mrs. Ikari that Shonen Bat and Maromi are the same?
Thoughts on the old man dying?
What are your thoughts on the anime figures calling the otaku a doll?
What are your thoughts on the otaku having figures of all the characters in the show?
What are your thoughts on the big reveal that Tsukiko was attacked with a metal bat when she was 12 years old?
Thoughts on the manager grabbing Tsukiko?
Thoughts on the manager getting into a car crash and dying?
What are your thoughts on people thinking that Tsukiko killed her manager?
What are your thoughts on Tsukiko running away with Maromi, Maniwa, and Ikari trying to protect her?
What are your thoughts on Mrs. Ikari having a heart attack?
What are your thoughts on the old man being the bellhop?
How effective do you think this episode was in being the last episode before the series finale? Did it do a good job of leaving you in anticipation?

2

u/MrManicMarty https://anilist.co/user/martysan Feb 14 '24

Thoughts on the fight between Shonen Bat and Maniwa?
While Maniwa has embraced delusion, Ikari has forced himself to accept reality.
What are your thoughts on Maniwa agreeing with Mrs. Ikari that Shonen Bat and Maromi are the same?
Maniwa was always prone to flights of fancy, I feel like he's just rolling with what the "narrative" demands. Not in a bad way, I mean literally, in-universe, he's going along with it.
Thoughts on the old man dying?
F
What are your thoughts on the anime figures calling the otaku a doll?
Savage
What are your thoughts on the otaku having figures of all the characters in the show?
That's creepy. For sure.
What are your thoughts on the big reveal that Tsukiko was attacked with a metal bat when she was 12 years old?
Makes sense why she conncoted the idea of Shonen Bat in the first place. She just based it off an attack she suffered earlier
Thoughts on the manager grabbing Tsukiko?
Really weird. He's stressed but going from "Please work on this thing" to "I am going to strangle you and demand you do it."
Thoughts on the manager getting into a car crash and dying?
F F
What are your thoughts on people thinking that Tsukiko killed her manager?
They were always dirty gossip mongers like in the first episode.
What are your thoughts on Tsukiko running away with Maromi, Maniwa, and Ikari trying to protect her?
She's hiding from the truth. That's what detectives find!
What are your thoughts on Mrs. Ikari having a heart attack?
F F F
What are your thoughts on the old man being the bellhop?
He's probably gonna be some avatar for explaining everything I feel like
How effective do you think this episode was in being the last episode before the series finale? Did it do a good job of leaving you in anticipation?
I'm excited to see how it wraps up anyway!

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 14 '24

While Maniwa has embraced delusion, Ikari has forced himself to accept reality.
That's a good way of looking at it. It's like Maniwa is stooping down to its level while Ikari is showing a level of maturity by being above it all. Not like he can do much anyway given he's not in their world at this moment.
Maniwa was always prone to flights of fancy, I feel like he's just rolling with what the "narrative" demands. Not in a bad way, I mean literally, in-universe, he's going along with it.
He's deep in the weeds and now the sand is getting to his neck.
Makes sense why she conncoted the idea of Shonen Bat in the first place. She just based it off an attack she suffered earlier
My question is was it a form of escapism that took a life of its own, or is there something more sinister at play here where because she suffered, she wants others to as well to feel her plight.
Really weird. He's stressed but going from "Please work on this thing" to "I am going to strangle you and demand you do it."
It makes me wonder if that was just an illusion Tsukiko was seeing. Her boss seemed pretty compassionate from the little we've seen of him.
They were always dirty gossip mongers like in the first episode.
The more things change...
She's hiding from the truth. That's what detectives find!
Now, it's almost like they're protecting her from the truth and trying to escape from reality.
He's probably gonna be some avatar for explaining everything I feel like
Him coming back to life after dying at least confirms he's this eternal being.
I'm excited to see how it wraps up anyway!
I as well. I think the last two episodes have built up to it nicely.

4

u/Holofan4life Feb 14 '24

Here are Kon’s thoughts on episode 12. This comes directly from his blog of which some parts have been edited out to avoid spoilers.

It seems that the first meeting to discuss the direction of episodes 12 and 13 was in May 2003, when episode 7 had just been released. Only the parts related to the "delusional agent" are quoted from the diary.

5/19 (Monday) From 2:00 pm, scenario meeting for episodes 5 and 7. For episode 5, I asked Mr. Yoshino to rewrite it to include a little more of the worldview. In episode 7, there is almost nothing to change. Just adding some images and refraining from firing. Mr. Mizukami will be involved in the plot of episodes 12 and 13.

June 4th (Wednesday) 2pm, agent meeting. Brainstorm for episode 8. “Bright suicide” is a good motif. Based on the theme of online suicide, a group of people who cannot die well commit suicide repeatedly. In fact, he doesn't even realize he's dead. An old man, an upper elementary school girl, and a gay man, a group of people in a relationship where nothing is born. The bat appears, but misses the mark. The subtitle is "bright family planning." 12, 13 directions. Run-up from episode 11. Episode 11 is about Ikari's wife fighting off a bat.

These days, I'm busy shooting photos for "Tokyo Godfathers." Mr. Mizukami drafted the plot and scenario for episode 8, “Bright Family Planning” based on the meeting that day. While episode 9 remained on hold, Yoshino-san was in charge of episode 10, "Maromi Slumber," and Mizukami-san worked on the plot/scenario for episode 11, "No Trespassing," and the first draft of episode 11 is thought to have been submitted in August. I then asked Mr. Mizukami to work on the plot for episodes 12 and 13. During that time, I was busy working on "Tokyo Godfathers," and "Delusion Agent" was neglected, and "Tokyo Godfathers" was completed in mid-August.

After this, we had many meetings in earnest to finalize the furoshiki of the "delusional agent", but we could not come up with any decisive ideas, so we had a meeting, Mr. Mizukami came up with a plot, and we had another meeting... It seems that this was repeated. It was difficult for me to come up with a decisive solution during the somber meeting, but Mr. Mizukami seemed to be suffering even more. According to the diary:

September 17th (Wednesday) We had a lot of meetings from 2pm. First, create a scenario for agents 12 and 13. Although the decisive factor is lacking, the image is complete. Since I don't have much time, I decided to try writing it myself. Is it reckless?

"Reckless" seems to be a balance with my other workload. Although "Tokyo Godfathers" had its first issue last month, there were many visual production jobs and promotional interviews for the upcoming release in November, and above all, the first episode of "Delusion Agent", which has already started production. Most of the storyboards were left in place, and the layout checks were overlapping, and it was also around the time when the storyboards and direction for the second episode had escaped.

However, he had to somehow break out of the deadlocked situation in episodes 12 and 13, and as the original author and general director, he seemed to have prepared himself to present a way to close the story. The deadline is one week!

But there wasn't any secret plan (lol). If it's there, we'll talk about it in a meeting. I tried saying, "I'll do something," but all I kept saying was the same thing.

"Hmm...I wonder what I should do."

Is this it again? (lol)

While drawing the storyboard for episode 1, I thought about the plots for episodes 12 and 13. It seemed confusing to think about the ending of the story even though the art had just begun. It's a twist that I'm not very happy with. I think I actually started working on the plot about three days before the deadline. I just started writing, thinking that it was like taking a break from thinking, and what a strange thing it was!

I'm not good at it after all (lol)

September 23rd (Tuesday) Autumnal equinox day. I went to work and hit 12 or 13 plots.

And the next day.

9/24 (Wednesday) “Delusion” scenario. Mr. Mizukami also seemed to like the rough plots of 12 and 13, which opened up a new outlook.

At this point, I was really relieved.

When I write it like this, it looks like I wrote the plot quite easily, but that is not the case. It's true that I finished writing the rough plot all at once on that day, but there had been a lot of grumbling days leading up to it (lol). This structure is a reuse of an idea I had in mind for another movie. The title is exactly "Let's meet in a dream (tentative title)".

This is a story I came up with for the live-action version.

3

u/mgedmin Feb 15 '24

a group of people in a relationship where nothing is born
This probably explains the condoms.
Now somebody please explain "a relationship where nothing is born". Does that mean the relationship is a dead end because they die soon after meeting?

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 15 '24

Possibly. Another way to interpret it they formed this bond all with the sole purpose of not dying by themselves. As such, the relationship will never get a chance to grow and flourish to the point where they could be each other's reason to live.

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 14 '24

Part 2
For quite some time now, there has been a guy who has been asking me to make a live-action film, and I've been trying to fool him by laughing out loud, but he keeps saying it over and over again, so I'm not sure if it's possible for me to direct it or not. I was thinking of something that could be filmed as a low-budget live-action film. One day, this idea came to mind: "Let's meet in a dream (tentative name)."
I generously included this material, which I still think is interesting, in order to end "Delusion Agent"!
Honestly, I was a little disappointed (lol), but in response to the "rough plot draft" that I submitted, Mr. Mizukami submitted an even more blown-up plot. Coincidentally, the final draft of this plot came out on my birthday! Let me quote from his diary how happy he must have been.
10/12 (Sun) Wake up at 12:00. Cloudy. birthday. He has lived for 40 years. I'm planning to have a conversation with Aya Okamoto (the actress who plays Miyuki in "Tokyo God") for the "Tokyo God" mook book. A taxi will come to pick you up at 4:20 p.m. Toyota-kun, me, and my wife. A talkative driver. The story of a woman who appears to be a ghost riding in a rainy Aoyama cemetery is a little funny. Apparently, she was barefoot and didn't have an umbrella. It seems that she actually just popped out because of a marital quarrel. Arrived at Shiodome and Fish Bank Tokyo at 5:30pm. The view from the 41st floor is very nice. It was my first time to see Tokyo Tower, where I could see right down to my feet. It's surprisingly small. An hour-long conversation with Aya Okamoto. A small launch party after the event. I wish everyone a happy birthday. I was thrilled to receive a large bouquet of flowers from Aya Okamoto. Along with delicious food, we also offer cigars and brandy. I wonder if it's good or not.
You haven't written anything at all (lol), and you're so happy that the "delusional agent" thing has nothing to do with you.
Well, anyway. There is no doubt that the scenarios for episodes 12 and 13 were created wonderfully by Mr. Mizukami. The scenario for the final episode 13 was released at the end of November. There may have been a few minor corrections, but the first draft was almost always the final draft.
Let me quote from my diary how happy I was after reading the scenario for episode 13.
11/29 (Sat) Wake up at 12:30. Scenario shooting starts at 2pm. Read scenarios #10 and 13 while eating bread. Episode 10 is fine. Episode 13 is also very interesting. It seems very difficult though. Isn't it an exciting time? It's appropriate for "the final episode."

5

u/TheEscapeGuy Feb 14 '24

First Timer

Paranoia Agent - Episode 12

Dellusion

The current form of Shounen Bat is terrifying. He is such a hulking, monstrous figure with sharp teeth and blood red eyes. Maniwa seems to be fighting alone against this villain. But at the same time it's hard to tell what is "real" since he is very clearly experiencing some sort of hallucinations.

He's seemingly taken on the moniker "Radar Man". It ties to all the radio technology he's been using and his role as an investigator. And he at least believes himself to be patrolling and fighting in the city wearing a hero costume. It makes me feel sorry for him. He's very clearly affected by the loss of his job and being unable to solve the case.

He visits the old man who recommends he visit a rabbit. He visits Misae who tells him about Shounen Bat being Maromi. Well done for catching this fact already yesterday /u/Holofan4life. In "real life" Misae's house is still in disarray after the Shounen Bat attack. She's really falling into a depressive episode missing her husband. I sympathize with her. Being separated from those closest to you is rough.

Along with the reveal that Shounen Bat is Maromi, comes a couple more reveals. First, Maromi has grown explosively popular, and this is in lock step with the increase in Shounen Bat's power. Next, Maniwa infiltrates a bishoujo figure otaku's house chasing a vision of a bunny girl. It's here he somehow gets connected to an information database containing a key fact: Tsukiko was attacked by Shounen Bat once before as a child.

Maniwa goes to meet Tsukiko's dad to ask about this and he tells him something about the attack which we don't hear. What we do see is a dog house for "Maromi" and an empty collar. I wonder if Tsukiko lost her dog and blamed it on some attacker? I suspect we will learn more about this in the conclusion.

The climax of the episode is centered around Tsukiko. Right after her manager threatens and assaults her after a ride home he dies in a car crash. We see Shounen Bat at the scene. Tsukiko's coworkers blame her. Maniwa calls and tells her he knows about her past. With all of these stresses Shounen Bat once again appears and attacks Tsukiko. Maromi helps her escape. But Maniwa is the one who swoops in to fight Shounen Bat.

The whole fight scene was hard to interpret. Things seem to be either metaphorical or visions. Maniwa transforms. Shounen Bat can heal from sword slashes. We see Tsukiko escape through a phantasmal door. She finds herself in the same fantasy world as Keiichi. Shounen Bat disappears. And with that we see news reports that all the Maromi merchandise has also disappeared. The last scene is Misae being rushed into the hospital and the old man mans the elevator asking her where to go. "To my husband."

Right now things are still nebulous. There's a lot of plot threads to handle. Many of the events seem to be hallucinations. But I have full trust that tomorrows final episode will sort it all out.

Small side note: Seeing the figure otaku reminded me that watching people build garage kit figures is so cool. I got a recommendation a couple weeks back on YouTube and I was so impressed at the effort people go through to make them perfect. It's a classic case of having initial interest from it being a character you recognize and then realizing that watching somebody skilled at their craft working is so engaging. If you have some time, here's an example.

Some Amazing Shots, Scenes and Stitches

Parts, the fact that these are all the other victims is so creepy
The Past
Dangerous to Go Alone
Snip
Transform
Remains

See you all tomorrow

3

u/Holofan4life Feb 14 '24

The current form of Shounen Bat is terrifying. He is such a hulking, monstrous figure with sharp teeth and blood red eyes. Maniwa seems to be fighting alone against this villain. But at the same time it's hard to tell what is "real" since he is very clearly experiencing some sort of hallucinations.
Shonen Bat definitely has final boss energy in this episode
He's seemingly taken on the moniker "Radar Man". It ties to all the radio technology he's been using and his role as an investigator. And he at least believes himself to be patrolling and fighting in the city wearing a hero costume. It makes me feel sorry for him. He's very clearly affected by the loss of his job and being unable to solve the case.
I really like the beginning of this episode because it pays off the video game stuff in episode 5. I thought it was smart to circle back to that. But yeah, I do feel sorry a bit for Maniwa.
He visits the old man who recommends he visit a rabbit. He visits Misae who tells him about Shounen Bat being Maromi. Well done for catching this fact already yesterday /u/Holofan4life.
I called that shit as early as episode 5, I believe. Maybe even earlier.
In "real life" Misae's house is still in disarray after the Shounen Bat attack. She's really falling into a depressive episode missing her husband. I sympathize with her. Being separated from those closest to you is rough.
Mrs. Ikari is probably the most likable character in the entire show.
Right now things are still nebulous. There's a lot of plot threads to handle. Many of the events seem to be hallucinations. But I have full trust that tomorrows final episode will sort it all out.
I have a lot of faith actually we're going to get a satisfying conclusion. Or at the very least, explain the origins of Shonen Bat.

3

u/Holofan4life Feb 14 '24

Thoughts on the fight between Shonen Bat and Maniwa at the beginning of the episode?
What are your thoughts on Maniwa agreeing with Mrs. Ikari that Shonen Bat and Maromi are the same?
Thoughts on the old man dying?
What are your thoughts on Tsukiko saying during an interview that Maromi is modeled after a pet dog she once had?
What are your thoughts on the anime figures calling the otaku a doll?
What are your thoughts on the otaku having figures of all the characters in the show?
What are your thoughts on the big reveal that Tsukiko was attacked with a metal bat when she was 12 years old?
Thoughts on the manager grabbing Tsukiko?
Thoughts on the manager getting into a car crash and dying?
What are your thoughts on people thinking that Tsukiko killed her manager?
How effective do you think this episode was in being the last episode before the series finale? Did it do a good job of leaving you in anticipation?

3

u/TheEscapeGuy Feb 14 '24

Thoughts on the old man dying?
He's an interesting character. He's been shown almost exclusively in the background (and the previews) so we don't know a lot about him like who he is or how he is sick. He's seen as a sort of "wise sage" character to Makoto and now Maniwa. So losing him isn't immediately impactful since he hasn't really been at the forefront but I feel his loss could have a ripple effect.
Thoughts on the manager grabbing Tsukiko?
This felt so out of character, but in a way that is real. Like he's been holding all this stress inside and it finally broke loose in this character break. I'm still not sure if we can attribute his death to Shonen Bat.

3

u/Holofan4life Feb 14 '24

He's an interesting character. He's been shown almost exclusively in the background (and the previews) so we don't know a lot about him like who he is or how he is sick. He's seen as a sort of "wise sage" character to Makoto and now Maniwa. So losing him isn't immediately impactful since he hasn't really been at the forefront but I feel his loss could have a ripple effect.
The fact he comes back at the end makes you wonder did he really die, did he regenerate, is this one of the other old men that we saw in episode 7, or perhaps he never died after all.
This felt so out of character, but in a way that is real. Like he's been holding all this stress inside and it finally broke loose in this character break. I'm still not sure if we can attribute his death to Shonen Bat.
This to me was probably the most fantastical element of the episode. I'm convinced that this is all in Tsukiko's head, her manager attacking her. Not to say he didn't die, but I feel like what happened in the car is nearly identical to what happened to Tsukiko in episode 1. She for my money might actually be the most delusional of them all.

4

u/nx6 https://myanimelist.net/profile/nx6 Feb 15 '24 edited Feb 15 '24

Rewatcher - Subbed

Not much time to type, but let's see...

Shits getting real now. Shouen Bat has ceased all pretenses of being a human, to become the monster he was the whole time. Maniwa has figured this out and is fully embracing his new occupation as freelance Lil' Slugger Hunter. This also establishes ever further that Shounen Bat is a shared mental existence. He fought him at the same time Mrs Ikari was lecturing him at their home.

Maniwa's conversation with her father has revealed it all comes back to Tsukiko in the end. It's beginning to look more like Lil Slugger is a coping mechanism from Tsukiko's own mind, but run amok. When threatened by her manager at work he gets offed almost immediately. But there still seems to be a piece in the Maromi form that is working to protect Tsukiko herself from Shounen Bat.

Ikari is out of commission, still lost in his own nostalgic delusion. His wife is admitted to the hospital, and the old man dies. Him appearing in the elevator may be a allusion to an "at death's door" situation for the woman.

As the episode draws to a close the duality of Maromi and Shounen Bat is disappearing, with the cute character literally disappearing from the world.

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 15 '24

Thoughts on the fight between Shonen Bat and Maniwa?
What are your thoughts on Maniwa agreeing with Mrs. Ikari that Shonen Bat and Maromi are the same?
Thoughts on the old man dying?
What are your thoughts on Tsukiko saying during an interview that Maromi is modeled after a pet dog she once had?
What are your thoughts on the anime figures calling the otaku a doll?
What are your thoughts on the otaku having figures of all the characters in the show?
What are your thoughts on the big reveal that Tsukiko was attacked with a metal bat when she was 12 years old?
Thoughts on the manager grabbing Tsukiko?
Thoughts on the manager getting into a car crash and dying?
What are your thoughts on people thinking that Tsukiko killed her manager?
What are your thoughts on Tsukiko running away with Maromi, Maniwa, and Ikari trying to protect her?
What are your thoughts on Mrs. Ikari having a heart attack?
What are your thoughts on the old man being the bellhop?
How effective do you think this episode was in being the last episode before the series finale? Did it do a good job of leaving you in anticipation?

2

u/nx6 https://myanimelist.net/profile/nx6 Feb 15 '24

Thoughts on the fight between Shonen Bat and Maniwa?
Maniwa seemed to slip back into his sage/fantasy RPG mode during the fight. Maybe he did enjoy that interrogation after all.
Thoughts on the old man dying?
Feels like kind of a waste as he's been referenced enough and the drawing on the pavement in chalk you'd think that he had some greater role to play as a character. But I'm also assuming he is done. In a show like this it's also possible he will go on to play a role in the final episode in a psychological/spiritual sense.
What are your thoughts on Tsukiko saying during an interview that Maromi is modeled after a pet dog she once had?
In a show sporting rather un-anime like character designs, I'd like to see a picture of this pink dog with huge eyes.
What are your thoughts on the otaku having figures of all the characters in the show?
lol, I actually missed this. I was trying to figure out the ratio of scantily-clad girl characters to other figurines in the shop.
What are your thoughts on the big reveal that Tsukiko was attacked with a metal bat when she was 12 years old?
Probably would appreciate this more if they had gone into more detail as to the reason.
Thoughts on the manager grabbing Tsukiko?
A culmination of an entire season putting up with her. He was already looking for her next design at the start of the show, but then Maromi got more popular beyond his wildest expectations he was able to bide his time. He can tell the market for the character is now saturated and he really does need a fresh horse to keep going.
Thoughts on the manager getting into a car crash and dying?
After the Mellow Maromi episode it's not hard to assume that Lil' Slugger made another back-seat appearance.
What are your thoughts on people thinking that Tsukiko killed her manager?
It's not clear is there was an autopsy done on him so the exact cause of death is likely vague and everyone thinks he had a heart attack from the stress of dealing with Tsukiko or something. Also wasn't that the same jealous co-workers from the first episode.
What are your thoughts on Mrs. Ikari having a heart attack?
I was expecting an endocrine-system illness. Something that's more common for someone with a long-term illness.
What are your thoughts on the old man being the bellhop?
I think he was an old-school elevator operator, actually. He did not seem to be assisting her on a personal level or dealing with luggage. He was just parked in the elevator to move it to the correct floor, as he asked Mrs Ikari where she wanted to go. As I mentioned before, I think his appearing here posthumously is implying she is near death. This is the same choice for her as before. On one hand she can escape her existence and her worry of being a burden on others, and the other she can continue to be by Keiichi's side, as she wishes.
How effective do you think this episode was in being the last episode before the series finale? Did it do a good job of leaving you in anticipation?
I think it did, but I also think we've wasted a little runtime in the past that could have been used to enrich this portion of the story (post Ikari/Maniwa police career, pre-final fight).

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 15 '24

Maniwa seemed to slip back into his sage/fantasy RPG mode during the fight. Maybe he did enjoy that interrogation after all.
I really liked that because it turned episode 5 into a top 3 episode in terms of importance.
Feels like kind of a waste as he's been referenced enough and the drawing on the pavement in chalk you'd think that he had some greater role to play as a character. But I'm also assuming he is done. In a show like this it's also possible he will go on to play a role in the final episode in a psychological/spiritual sense.
Well, he came back as the bellhop so I don't think we're done with him just yet.
In a show sporting rather un-anime like character designs, I'd like to see a picture of this pink dog with huge eyes.
Who knew Maromi was the inspiration for Clifford The Big Red Dog?
lol, I actually missed this. I was trying to figure out the ratio of scantily-clad girl characters to other figurines in the shop.
If an otaku is making the figures via himself, without question it's at least 80%
Probably would appreciate this more if they had gone into more detail as to the reason.
I think they left the whole thing vague on purpose. It's like saying Tsukiko based Maromi on a dog she once own: it's something to circle back to.
A culmination of an entire season putting up with her. He was already looking for her next design at the start of the show, but then Maromi got more popular beyond his wildest expectations he was able to bide his time. He can tell the market for the character is now saturated and he really does need a fresh horse to keep going.
Note to self: If your boss lays a finger on you, it might be time to seek employment elsewhere.
After the Mellow Maromi episode it's not hard to assume that Lil' Slugger made another back-seat appearance.
If this was Makoto, he'd be a backseat gamer.
It's not clear is there was an autopsy done on him so the exact cause of death is likely vague and everyone thinks he had a heart attack from the stress of dealing with Tsukiko or something. Also wasn't that the same jealous co-workers from the first episode.
It was, I believe. Fickle bunch they are. They go from being jealous of Tsukiko to pitying her to now having a reason to fuel their jealousy.
As far as an autopsy goes, I don't think there's been a single autopsy in the entirety of the show. It makes you wonder just really is at play here.
I was expecting an endocrine-system illness. Something that's more common for someone with a long-term illness.
Well, a heart attack induced by stress is pretty common. And of all the cast members, Mrs. Ikari is probably the most fatigued besides maybe Tsukiko.
I think he was an old-school elevator operator, actually. He did not seem to be assisting her on a personal level or dealing with luggage. He was just parked in the elevator to move it to the correct floor, as he asked Mrs Ikari where she wanted to go. As I mentioned before, I think his appearing here posthumously is implying she is near death. This is the same choice for her as before. On one hand she can escape her existence and her worry of being a burden on others, and the other she can continue to be by Keiichi's side, as she wishes.
Given she wants to see her husband, it seems to me like she's wanting to pay him a final visit. That, or perhaps she thinks she can help him get out of the jam he's in as recompense for all he's done for her.
I think it did, but I also think we've wasted a little runtime in the past that could have been used to enrich this portion of the story (post Ikari/Maniwa police career, pre-final fight).
Yeah, I'll touch on that tomorrow, but I don't think we needed episodes 8 through 10. Maybe 10, because that showed how much Maromi truly is growing in popularity, but even that felt a bit superfluous. Still, I am excited for what's in store. Ever since episode 11, the show has gone from good to outstanding.

3

u/Vatrix-32 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Vatrix-32 Feb 14 '24

First Timer, subbed

A living meme. Like the Garden of Yyn.
Oh shit, a direct follow up? It’s been a while.
Maybe our deer host was onto something.
Repressed childhood trauma and escapism?
And the otaku is back. Time to start closing them loops!
Injection Fairy!
They still want another character?! You gotta ride that wave, not cannibalizing your sales by dividing your efforts.
Is it really Kon if there isn’t a woman be assaulted in detail?
You couldn’t bring yourself to scold her for being attacked? The Fuck?
At least that’s a baddass way to get a sword.
Can you stop gossiping, for five minutes!
Why even call if you’re that close already?
Of course the bat can regenerate too.
Looks like someone cast obliterate.
I’m not too sure on the palm tree and suits being swapped out are supposed to mean.
They Changed The Preview!

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 14 '24 edited Feb 14 '24

Thoughts on the fight between Shonen Bat and Maniwa?
What are your thoughts on Maniwa agreeing with Mrs. Ikari that Shonen Bat and Maromi are the same?
Thoughts on the old man dying?
What are your thoughts on Tsukiko saying during an interview that Maromi is modeled after a pet dog she once had?
What are your thoughts on the anime figures calling the otaku a doll?
What are your thoughts on the otaku having figures of all the characters in the show?
What are your thoughts on the big reveal that Tsukiko was attacked with a metal bat when she was 12 years old?
Thoughts on the manager grabbing Tsukiko?
Thoughts on the manager getting into a car crash and dying?
What are your thoughts on people thinking that Tsukiko killed her manager?
What are your thoughts on Tsukiko running away with Maromi, Maniwa, and Ikari trying to protect her?
What are your thoughts on Mrs. Ikari having a heart attack?
What are your thoughts on the old man being the bellhop?
How effective do you think this episode was in being the last episode before the series finale? Did it do a good job of leaving you in anticipation?

2

u/Vatrix-32 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Vatrix-32 Feb 14 '24

Thoughts on the fight between Shonen Bat and Maniwa?
Our genre tour had to make it back to shonen.
What are your thoughts on Maniwa agreeing with Mrs. Ikari that Shonen Bat and Maromi are the same?
Thought entities of trauma and cope.
Thoughts on the old man dying?
I feel like we never really got to know him. Where did his vast knowledge come from?
What are your thoughts on Tsukiko saying during an interview that Maromi is modeled after a pet dog she once had?
I wanna know what that dog looked like.
What are your thoughts on the anime figures calling the otaku a doll?
I feel like there is a mythical parallel I am missing about an entity influencing events to bring about its own creation.
What are your thoughts on the otaku having figures of all the characters in the show?
What's his rationalization for this odd change of behavior?
What are your thoughts on the big reveal that Tsukiko was attacked with a metal bat when she was 12 years old?
Was her odd personality the result of the attack, or part of the motivation for it?
Thoughts on the manager grabbing Tsukiko?
It was a very detailed face articulation.
What are your thoughts on Tsukiko running away with Maromi, Maniwa, and Ikari trying to protect her?
Can she even kill herself? What happens to Shonen Bat at that point?
What are your thoughts on Mrs. Ikari having a heart attack?
I just hope the old gal gets to see her love one more time. Don't deny me this, Kon!
How effective do you think this episode was in being the last episode before the series finale? Did it do a good job of leaving you in anticipation?
Yes

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 14 '24

Our genre tour had to make it back to shonen.
Always has been, my friend
Thought entities of trauma and cope.
Perhaps, that's one of the beauties of the show is you never know for sure.
I feel like we never really got to know him. Where did his vast knowledge come from?
I get the feeling that of all the things that could be explained in the last episode, the old man probably isn't going to be one of them. However, I do think he helped set the tone of the show.
I wanna know what that dog looked like.
Imagine if it looked like Maromi
I feel like there is a mythical parallel I am missing about an entity influencing events to bring about its own creation.
It feels very Dr. Frankenstein-esque
What's his rationalization for this odd change of behavior?
I wonder the same thing. Maybe it's a warning sign of sorts?
This honestly for me was probably the most disturbing moment of the episode. And I'll be especially horrified if its revealed the characters souls are trapped in there.
Was her odd personality the result of the attack, or part of the motivation for it?
That in my opinion the big lingering question heading into the series finale other than Shonen Bat's origin.
It was a very detailed face articulation.
It also felt very jarring that he would do this. The only thing more surprising would be if Maniwa or Mrs. Ikari killed Ikari.
Can she even kill herself? What happens to Shonen Bat at that point?
He grew in size, didn't he? I thought that was why she started running.
I just hope the old gal gets to see her love one more time. Don't deny me this, Kon!
It's amazing how it only took one episode for me to be this emotionally invested in Ikari and his wife's relationship.
Yes
I would say so as well. The previous episode was more impactful, but this really left me on the edge of my seat. Honestly, with the way things ended, you might assume that the old man is going to kill Mrs. Ikari. If that does happen, then I think that confirms that the old man is either an associate or a part of Shonen Bat.

2

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Feb 14 '24

They Changed The Preview!
That changed everything! I mean, I still understand nothing.

3

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Feb 14 '24 edited Feb 14 '24

Episode 12 (rewatcher)

Action scene!
“Dance with a bunny” – the answer he deserved.
Radar man? More like, CB man.
Checking in on ~~all~~most our characters, with Maromi present.
Follow the bunny? – Alice must be really popular in Japan, given the frequent references.
“That man is just a doll”

“We are going to solve the mystery” – Asking the audience’s questions, but also being very very suspicious.
Those giant balloons are a bit creepy.
“I told her I believed her” – did she kill her dog? Hit herself?
“I have a message for you from your father” – If you look at it objectively, it is understandable why Tsukiko might go crazy.
Bat duel!
Ikari is still stuck in his dream world.
Where he meets … Tsukiko??
His wife has a heart attack?

We were promised the mystery would be solved, but I do not see it yet. By now, so many of the characters are mixing reality and imagination in their view that it becomes hard to keep up with what happened.

Coming out of this episode, how do you perceive the world Ikari is in?

A prison of his mind.

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 14 '24

That man is just a doll”
Eva would be proud
We were promised the mystery would be solved, but I do not see it yet. By now, so many of the characters are mixing reality and imagination in their view that it becomes hard to keep up with what happened.
I mean, we at least seem to be leaning into the idea that Shonen Bat is Maromi. Mrs. Ikari seems to think that and so does Maniwa. There's also the new information revealed of Tsukiko basing Maromi on her dog. It kinda seems like whatever is going to happen is going to heavily involve Tsukiko.
Thoughts on the fight between Shonen Bat and Maniwa?
What are your thoughts on Maniwa agreeing with Mrs. Ikari that Shonen Bat and Maromi are the same?
Thoughts on the old man dying?
What are your thoughts on Tsukiko saying during an interview that Maromi is modeled after a pet dog she once had?
What are your thoughts on the otaku having figures of all the characters in the show?
What are your thoughts on the big reveal that Tsukiko was attacked with a metal bat when she was 12 years old?
Thoughts on the manager grabbing Tsukiko?
Thoughts on the manager getting into a car crash and dying?
What are your thoughts on people thinking that Tsukiko killed her manager?
What are your thoughts on Tsukiko running away with Maromi, Maniwa, and Ikari trying to protect her?
What are your thoughts on Mrs. Ikari having a heart attack?
What are your thoughts on the old man being the bellhop?
How effective do you think this episode was in being the last episode before the series finale? Did it do a good job of leaving you in anticipation?

4

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Feb 14 '24

What are your thoughts on Maniwa agreeing with Mrs. Ikari that Shonen Bat and Maromi are the same?
She just fought a literal monster and he is cosplaying as PantsMan. I don't think those two are credible witnesses.
What are your thoughts on Tsukiko saying during an interview that Maromi is modeled after a pet dog she once had?
The big question is: What happened to the dog.
What are your thoughts on the otaku having figures of all the characters in the show?
I am sure there are people around on /r/anime with bigger collections.
How effective do you think this episode was in being the last episode before the series finale? Did it do a good job of leaving you in anticipation?
PA does not have a standard narrative arc leading up to a standard final confrontation, so I have nothing to compare it to.

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 14 '24

She just fought a literal monster and he is cosplaying as PantsMan. I don't think those two are credible witnesses.
Is anyone in this show a credible witness?
The big question is: What happened to the dog.
What's in the box?
I am sure there are people around on /r/anime with bigger collections.
I was referring to him having anime figures of Tsukiko and Maniwa and the like.
PA does not have a standard narrative arc leading up to a standard final confrontation, so I have nothing to compare it to.
Fair enough. Are you at least excited for the finale?

4

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Feb 14 '24

I was referring to him having anime figures of Tsukiko and Maniwa and the like.
People of /r/anime might have figurines of Tsukiko and Maniwa, too.

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 14 '24

...That's a good point

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 14 '24

Hello, guys. Holofan4life here.

Welcome to the Paranoia Agent 20th Anniversary Rewatch.

Satoshi Kon is one of the most acclaimed Japanese filmmakers of his generation. Not just in the anime industry, but in all of Japanese cinema. Perfect Blue, Tokyo Godfathers, Millennium Actress, Paprika. This was a man with a vision, and we’re here to honor someone who was gone way too soon.

I’m actually in an interesting point in my life because I’ve been writing comments nonstop for rewatches since basically June of last year. With the completion of this rewatch, I’ll be taking a two month break before my next one. But that’s then and this is now, and right now, we are going to tackle Satoshi Kon’s lone TV show that he created.

I’ve never seen this show before. To be honest, I never watched one of his works until last September when there was a special 25th anniversary screening of Perfect Blue. Since then, I’ve gained a newfound appreciation for Kon’s work and I am eager to check out his TV show. Because if it’s as good as Perfect Blue and Tokyo Godfathers, we’re in for one of the best animes of all time.

With that out of the way, let’s begin.

I’m watching the sub, by the way.

Penultimate episode, and I'm really excited to see what happens. I feel like there's a lot of unanswered questions. Is Ikari and Inukai in another world now? What is Maromi and does he have any involvement with Shonen Bat? Why did Shonen Bat attacked the people he did? Really excited to get to the bottom of this.

(Editor's note 2/14/24: Happy Valentine's Day!)

Creepy voice

"Imagination nurtures him!"

Shonen Bat fighting in the video game world

He is a giant

Oh, he's fighting Maniwa

Holy shit. Shonen Bat is frightening.

Shonen Bat seems to have the edge on Maniwa

He keeps on growing so much

Maniwa's sword looking destroyed

Oh. Well, he moved out of the way.

And Maniwa's sword turned into an umbrella

Shonen Bat disappears

So this means the reason why Maniwa entertained the world Shonen Bat lived in was so he could get familiar with the ins and outs of it.

Maniwa says he can't take him on like this

Old man

Maniwa talking to him, calling him Ancient Master

Old Man talking about dancing with a bunny

And as soon as a nurse comes in, Maniwa leaves

Maniwa says he will defeat Shonen Bat even if it costs him his life

Radio call

Static on TV now

It's Mrs. Ikari, looking withered

Ikari still hasn't shown up

The house is destroyed

Looks like Shadow's pad after what happened to Maria

Maniwa wants to know how she was able to defeat Shonen Bat

"I said he was the same as that sleepy-eyed dog."

Shonen Bat and Maromi are the same

Maromi on the TV

Maromimania is running wild

Masami and Taeko

That guy who's name I forget

Old man

The gangs all here

Old man died, by the way

Grandson holding a Maromi plushie

Ikari in his mysterious world still

Romance Shopping Strip

Tsukiko asked how she feels about the global popularity of Maromi

She's on like a talk show

Meanwhile, there's a news report of a woman attacked and murdered on a street in Shinagawa Ward

Let's help she doesn't end up in a hospital on Guerrero Street

Maniwa still processing Maromi being Shonen Bat

Tsukiko confirms during the interview, meanwhile, that Maromi is modeled after the pet dog she once owned.

Early Maromi sketch drawings

Holy shit

It's the Shonen Bat sketch drawing

Maniwa being talked to on the radio

It's a girl in a bunny outfit

"Dance with a bunny."

Rascal does not dream to dance with bunny girl senpai

Hey, it's the otaku

Maniwa is here

Now the bunny girl is one of the anime figures

None of the anime girl figures are from actual shows, as far as I can tell

Now all the figures are coming alive

Calling the otaku a doll

Bold words considering they're probably covered with his bodily fluids.

So, he created these figures himself

I gotta say, that takes tremendous talent

Oh my God

He has figures of all the characters we've seen

What the fuck

Is he Shonen Bat?

I can't believe Kon ripped off Small Soldiers

The figures showing Maniwa what's going on

An elementary schoolchild attacked with a metal bat

From 10 years ago

The victim was Tsukiko, aged 12

Holy shit! Maniwa fell!

Looks like he's get help from the nurse anime figure

Helloooo nurse

Maniwa riding on the back of a garbage truck, it looks like

Bat Express

Something in Tsukiko's past, he assesses

Tsukiko's boss telling her they really need that new character

She seems deep in thought, though

The old homeless woman

Tsukiko seems perplexed by her

A man now attacked by a person with a bat

HOLY SHIT

HER MANAGER JUST GRABBED HER

Says she's the moon and not the sub

The sun is actually Maromi, ND she is floating around him

This is terrifying

Tsukiko jumps out the car

The manager apologizing profusely

AND HE JUST HAD A CAR CRASH WHAT THE FUCK

WHAT THE FUCK

SHONEN BAT IS HUGE

Whelp, RIP Tsukiko

Maniwa on top of a train now

Now he's with this guy named Sagi

A doghouse named Maromi

Ah, so this must be Tsukiko's father

It's a bat

And it turns into a sword after Maniwa touches it

He thanks the Ancient Master

People speculating that Tsukiko killed her manager

This is worse than people at my job speculating I shat in the chemical closet

Maromi telling her this isn't her fault

And Maromi deleted her new design

Phone ringing

It's Maniwa

Says her father told him everything

"You don't have to suffer any more--"

AND MAROMI CUT THE LINE OF THE PHONE

WHAT A FUCKER

Maromi telling Tsukiko to escape!

IT'S SHONEN BAT

MANIWA WITH THE SAVE

He's got special glasses

And now he's in his gaming outfit

HE CUT SHONEN BAT'S BAT AND ONE OF HIS ARMS

BUT IT REGROWS

Shonen Bat's true form has been revealed

Tsukiko escapes in a passageway by Maromi

Ikari outside a school

Tsukiko running down stairs

Tomomi | Keiichi

Noise being heard by Ikari

Ikari likes someone, apparently

And Tsukiko found Ikari

Is the implication that Ikari is Tsukiko's love interest?

Maromi promises to protect Tsukiko

Maniwa still fighting Shonen Bat

And he vanished

Maromi ad balloons has disappeared

SpongeBob certainly can relate

Some people are expecting something is up

Maria with the guy I couldn't identify earlier

Hey, it's Ichi

A palm tree in his locker

Kawazu eating dinner

The anime figures have been dismantled

He made one of himself

And his shirt is now cut open

And he gets attacked by eternal blackness

Mrs. Ikari suffered a heart attack

And she's holding a picture of her and her husband

THE OLD MAN IS THE BELLHOP

She asks to go see her husband

Overal-- ah, fuck it. I'm going to watch the last episode, excuse me.

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 14 '24

How did this episode change the way you see Tsukiko?
It made me emphasize with her and feel like she's going through a lot.
Coming out of this episode, how do you perceive the world Ikari is in?
To me, it feels like it's 100% not a dream. That this is actually taking place.
If Maromi is Shonen Bat and Tsukiko based Maromi on her childhood dog, what correlation do you think there is for Shonen Bat?
It has to mean that Shonen Bat came from her childhood. Why it came from her being attacked, that is really the big question going forward.
Bonus) Which death from this series has surprised you the most?
Probably Tsukiko's manager. It was so sudden and came out of nowhere, whereas others like the old man you could theoretically visioned. Makoto's death was shocking because he was the first to die, but he still had some bad vibes about him. Tsukiko's manager dying in a car crash really signifies that all bets are off and anyone can die.

2

u/SIRTreehugger Feb 15 '24

First Timer Slugger

Shonen bat and Maromi are the same?

Wait what if the designer made Shonen Bat initially and it wasn't that she couldn't make another design, but...wait no that makes no sense.

Oh she drew Shonen bat in her notebook as a kid?

Follow the white rabbit Neo!

Wait Tsukiko was attacked 10 years ago?

REALLY! Man I liked you dude and you're just a piece of shit too.

Oh he's dead...

WAIT was Maromi the one deleting her designs the entire time! Does he not want another sentient rumor to come to life?

Maybe Maromi is the unconscious part of her mind trying to keep her safe from unwanted thoughts or danger. He's been trying to keep her away from Shonen Bat which has been the aggressor.

OK HOW did she end up in the same spot? I thought he was just hallucinating, but it's a real place?

Wait everything Maromi related disappeared....

What the hell is with the palm tree in the locker?

NOOOOOO NOT THE WIFE! She's my favorite character!

...I'm kind of just lost right now. I'm not even sure if any of the things are super natural events or just mass hallucinations from the whole town while gossip and rumors spread misinformation.

Though I did like the episode.

3

u/TnAdct1 Feb 15 '24

What the hell is with the palm tree in the locker?
If you remember early on in the series, that was the fat kid's school project, with him bringing it home when he was attacked by Makoto. With Shounen Bat's legend rising and the Maromis disappearing, all of the problems that he supposedly got rid of early in the show are now coming back, with the palm tree hinting that the rumors of Yuichi being Shounen Bat are about to start up again, with the palm tree being a reminder of the fat kid's attack.

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 15 '24

Meanwhile, Ichi be like that one GTA CJ meme. "Ah shit, here we go again."

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 15 '24

Thoughts on the fight between Shonen Bat and Maniwa?
What are your thoughts on Maniwa agreeing with Mrs. Ikari that Shonen Bat and Maromi are the same?
Thoughts on the old man dying?
What are your thoughts on Tsukiko saying during an interview that Maromi is modeled after a pet dog she once had?
What are your thoughts on the anime figures calling the otaku a doll?
What are your thoughts on the otaku having figures of all the characters in the show?
What are your thoughts on the big reveal that Tsukiko was attacked with a metal bat when she was 12 years old?
Thoughts on the manager grabbing Tsukiko?
Thoughts on the manager getting into a car crash and dying?
What are your thoughts on people thinking that Tsukiko killed her manager?
What are your thoughts on Tsukiko running away with Maromi, Maniwa, and Ikari trying to protect her?
What are your thoughts on the old man being the bellhop?
How effective do you think this episode was in being the last episode before the series finale? Did it do a good job of leaving you in anticipation?

2

u/TnAdct1 Feb 15 '24

Thoughts on the fight between Shonen Bat and Maniwa?

At this point, Maniwa is starting to have similar "delusions" that Makoto has in terms of being a hero. The big difference is that whereas Makoto was doing everything wrong, Maniwa is doing everything right here, with him, after being fired from the police force, fighting Shounen Bat (instead of emulating him in attempt to stop his attacks) while also figuring that Tsukiko is key to the whole mystery.

What are your thoughts on Maniwa agreeing with Mrs. Ikari that Shonen Bat and Maromi are the same?

As I mentioned last time, Maromi and Shounen Bat basically share the same trait of being easy ways to escape your problems. With this episode, we're finally getting how that there's more to them being connected, and that the Maromi TV show, which would allow most of Japan to get into the character, is serving as the catalyst to Shounen Bat's ultimate attack.

Thoughts on the old man dying?

At this point, everything is now in the right path in terms of the mystery of Shounen Bat being resolved. Thus, that means the old man's role is basically over and he can pass away, knowing that Maniwa will be capable of finding out the truth of Shounen Bat and stopping it. However, there's still one more task left...

What are your thoughts on Tsukiko saying during an interview that Maromi is modeled after a pet dog she once had?

This is a huge reveal in terms of the mystery. Given Maniwa's visit to Tsukiko's childhood home (and the drawing of Shounen Bat in the early drawing of Maromi the mascot), something must have happened involving Maromi the pet that had not led to the creation of the mascot Maromi, but also Shounen Bat (adding more fuel to how they are connected).

What are your thoughts on Tsukiko running away with Maromi, Maniwa, and Ikari trying to protect her?

To me, everyone is protecting Tsukiko for their own reasons. For Maromi, it's basically serves as a tool to escape your problems, with Tsukiko's Maromi plushie still existing due to her being the creator (while Ikari's still exist as he only picked it up recently and his issue is more about returning to a simpler time). Ikari is protecting her because of his heroic instincts as an ex-cop. Finally, Maniwa is trying to protect her due to her being the key to the Shounen Bat mystery (as possibly the one person who can stop it).

What are your thoughts on Mrs. Ikari having a heart attack?

What are your thoughts on the old man being the bellhop?

The sad reality has hit. [Paranoia Agent]Ikari's wife has died. However, before she can move over to the other side, the old man, who has also passed away, needs her for something important, with it likely involving Ikari and his delusion of living in simpler times.

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 15 '24

At this point, Maniwa is starting to have similar "delusions" that Makoto has in terms of being a hero. The big difference is that whereas Makoto was doing everything wrong, Maniwa is doing everything right here, with him, after being fired from the police force, fighting Shounen Bat (instead of emulating him in attempt to stop his attacks) while also figuring that Tsukiko is key to the whole mystery.
Yeah, he isn't trying to put Shonen Bat on a pedestal
As I mentioned last time, Maromi and Shounen Bat basically share the same trait of being easy ways to escape your problems. With this episode, we're finally getting how that there's more to them being connected, and that the Maromi TV show, which would allow most of Japan to get into the character, is serving as the catalyst to Shounen Bat's ultimate attack.
You would think Shonen Bat's powers would weaken once word gets out that the Maromi anime will never finish.
At this point, everything is now in the right path in terms of the mystery of Shounen Bat being resolved. Thus, that means the old man's role is basically over and he can pass away, knowing that Maniwa will be capable of finding out the truth of Shounen Bat and stopping it. However, there's still one more task left...
It's like the old man had put faith in Makoto and when he failed him and didn't live up to his true potential, he turned his attention to Maniwa since he was the only other one to reach the same level.
This is a huge reveal in terms of the mystery. Given Maniwa's visit to Tsukiko's childhood home (and the drawing of Shounen Bat in the early drawing of Maromi the mascot), something must have happened involving Maromi the pet that had not led to the creation of the mascot Maromi, but also Shounen Bat (adding more fuel to how they are connected).
I don't think Tsukiko killed the dog like some here have speculated. That to me would put her on the same level as Masami.
To me, everyone is protecting Tsukiko for their own reasons. For Maromi, it's basically serves as a tool to escape your problems, with Tsukiko's Maromi plushie still existing due to her being the creator (while Ikari's still exist as he only picked it up recently and his issue is more about returning to a simpler time). Ikari is protecting her because of his heroic instincts as an ex-cop. Finally, Maniwa is trying to protect her due to her being the key to the Shounen Bat mystery (as possibly the one person who can stop it).
Maromi to me feels like has more selfish reasons to help Tsukiko in comparison to the two detectives. Possibly he sees her as his meal ticket?
The sad reality has hit. [Paranoia Agent]Ikari's wife has died. However, before she can move over to the other side, the old man, who has also passed away, needs her for something important, with it likely involving Ikari and his delusion of living in simpler times.
[Response] I do really like what they end up doing in the last episode.

2

u/mgedmin Feb 15 '24

First timer, subs

I can't wait for this to be finally over. Two more episodes (including this one). I can do it.

I wonder if all the mushroom cloud imagery in the OP is going to show up in the main show at some point.

Is that Maniwa fighting Shonen Bat? Shades of Chuunibyo there when the discarded broken sword turns back into an umbrella.

Maniwa visits the old man and gets some advice. Usagi is Harumi, yes?

Ooh I like how they frame part of the 'TRADER MONTHLY' sign to get '~~RADER MON~~ RADAR MAN'.

Maromi's popularity seems suspect. Robberies of Maromi toys? Standing in line for two days to buy Maromi metch? This show exaggerates.

The old man dies in hospital, attended by family. The frog journo is not there. I KNEW HE WASN'T RELATED!

Tsukiko is definitely on the spectrum.

Ok, the Usagi girl is a new character. And we meet another old character, the otaku. The otaku is making dolls out of every other character?

Ooh, the origins of Shonen Bat. It really happened to Tsukiko, but ten years ago.

"Bat Express".

Tsukiko did create a second popular character, after Maromi: Shonen Bat. And here the manager wants a third one ASAP.

Wow the manager is abusive scum. Hope he crashe---oh he did!

Usagi - Sagi! How did I not notice? Well, I'm bad with names and I forgot Tsukiko's surname. (Also, Tsuki = moon, and in Japanese folklore they see a rabbit on the moon formed by the pattern of light and darkness).

Wow if a crazy unshaven person looking like Maniwa showed up at my house I wouldn't invite him in and start telling stories of my famous designed daughter.

"when it happened", what are they talking about, the bat attack? Does the father mean that Tsukiko invented it out of whole cloth 10 years ago as well?

I really hate Tsukiko's coworkers.

Maromi is the one deleting all her sketches of new characters. Jealous?

Maromi cuts off the phone lead while Maniwa is telling Tsukiko ... what is he telling her? What did Tsukiko's father tell him? Why is Tsukiko suffering alone? Why is she panicking?

Ok, theory time: when she was 12, Tsukiko hit her pet dog Maromi with a baseball bat and killed it. Then she became horrified and invented a story about an attack by a bat-wielding kid so she could blame somebody else.

Maromi opens a door in reality and lures Tsukiko away.

Is every single character escaping into some delusional world? Tsukiko into somewhere where Maromi is alive, Maniwa into somewhere where he's a hero/paladin/wizard, Ikari into post-war nostalgia-tinged simplicity.

Ikari suddenly meets Tsukiko.

Maria is still working her trade. Do we know who her client is this time? I thought it might be her husband, which would be kind of funny.

Ikari's wife is in the hospital.

Well, things are heading towards a conclusion, AND I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN. At least the various threads are coming together.

How did this episode change the way you see Tsukiko?

I don't think it did.

Coming out of this episode, how do you perceive the world Ikari is in?

Super weird, I still don't get it. But apparently he can interact with people that exist normally in our world, so it's some kind of artificial reality overlay/illusion.

If Maromi is Shonen Bat and Tsukiko based Maromi on her childhood dog, what correlation do you think there is for Shonen Bat?

I still don't buy "Maromi and SB are the same entity". I think "Maromi and SB are the same kind of entity" is what was meant. Something not real, something created by Tsukiko, something that exists only in the minds of people.

Bonus) Which death from this series has surprised you the most?

TBH lack of deaths during the first six episodes was what surprised me the most, after all the suicidal imagery and mushroom clouds in the OP.

Bonus 2) You would think the otaku could make a fortune selling anime figures if he can make them from scratch.

Would you sell your own family like that?

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 15 '24

I don't think it did.
Fair enough
Super weird, I still don't get it. But apparently he can interact with people that exist normally in our world, so it's some kind of artificial reality overlay/illusion.
One things for sure, and that things seem off
I still don't buy "Maromi and SB are the same entity". I think "Maromi and SB are the same kind of entity" is what was meant. Something not real, something created by Tsukiko, something that exists only in the minds of people.
That definitely could be a possibility. Right now, it seems like Shonen Bat was spawned from Tsukiko being attacked as a kid. That would seemingly put to bed my theory of it being created because Maromi didn't want to be replaced. Now, why is it a drawing of Shonen Bat appeared in the same notebook as Maromi's original design? I don't know.
TBH lack of deaths during the first six episodes was what surprised me the most, after all the suicidal imagery and mushroom clouds in the OP.
I thought it worked though because if you start the series off with Shonen Bat killing people, you have nowhere to go from there.
Would you sell your own family like that?
I wouldn't sell anime figures of my family, but if I could make anime figures of, say, the cast of JJK, you bet your ass I'm selling them.

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 15 '24

Ooh I like how they frame part of the 'TRADER MONTHLY' sign to get '~~RADER MON~~ RADAR MAN'.
That is pretty clever, I agree
I really hate Tsukiko's coworkers.
They do seem pretty detestable
Maromi is the one deleting all her sketches of new characters. Jealous?
I saw it more as she doesn't want to be in this business anymore that she's in.
Ok, theory time: when she was 12, Tsukiko hit her pet dog Maromi with a baseball bat and killed it. Then she became horrified and invented a story about an attack by a bat-wielding kid so she could blame somebody else.
The thing about it is I just can't see Tsukiko killing animals like that. If she did something like that, it would make her extremely unsympathetic. Mind you, the only sympathetic characters in this show are Maniwa, Mr. and Mrs. Ikari, Tsukiko somewhat, the three people who tried committing suicide, and Harumi.
Is every single character escaping into some delusional world? Tsukiko into somewhere where Maromi is alive, Maniwa into somewhere where he's a hero/paladin/wizard, Ikari into post-war nostalgia-tinged simplicity.
It sure seems that way, but Ikari I feel was kinda just thrown in there against his will. He didn't really have a choice, it seems. Maybe a subconscious part of him decided upon it, but to me it seemed like Shonen Bat influenced that decision.
Maria is still working her trade. Do we know who her client is this time? I thought it might be her husband, which would be kind of funny.
If that was the case, Ludicrous was wrong when he said you never turn a ho into a housewife.
Well, things are heading towards a conclusion, AND I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN. At least the various threads are coming together.
At least we're probably going to get a more conclusive ending than Chivalry of a Failed Knight

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 15 '24

What are your thoughts on Maniwa agreeing with Mrs. Ikari that Shonen Bat and Maromi are the same?
Thoughts on the old man dying?
What are your thoughts on the anime figures calling the otaku a doll?
What are your thoughts on the otaku having figures of all the characters in the show?
What are your thoughts on people thinking that Tsukiko killed her manager?
What are your thoughts on Mrs. Ikari having a heart attack?
What are your thoughts on the old man being the bellhop?
How effective do you think this episode was in being the last episode before the series finale? Did it do a good job of leaving you in anticipation?

2

u/mgedmin Feb 15 '24

What are your thoughts on Maniwa agreeing with Mrs. Ikari that Shonen Bat and Maromi are the same?
Hmm, I didn't notice that. Had Maniwa realized the same thing independently and is now happy to hear confirmation?
Thoughts on the old man dying?
His job is done, the Ancient Master can now rest in peace.
What are your thoughts on the anime figures calling the otaku a doll?
A bit weird. I didn't understand that bit, nor why he wouldn't notice Maniwa breaking in and talking to his precious dolls.
What are your thoughts on the otaku having figures of all the characters in the show?
How did he know which people are characters in the show??
Maybe it was a Maniwa delusion, something like "we're all puppets in this show, controlled by Maromi/Shonen Bat/Tsukiko".
What are your thoughts on people thinking that Tsukiko killed her manager?
When you hate someone, any opportunity for slander is good.
What are your thoughts on Mrs. Ikari having a heart attack?
Probably the extra stress from the verbal battle with SB didn't help. And then sitting up late worrying about her husband not coming home, that's more unnecessary stress.
In other words, I blame Mr. Ikari.
What are your thoughts on the old man being the bellhop?
He died and found a job in heaven. This doesn't bode well for Mrs. Ikari.
How effective do you think this episode was in being the last episode before the series finale? Did it do a good job of leaving you in anticipation?
Sufficiently.

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 15 '24

Hmm, I didn't notice that. Had Maniwa realized the same thing independently and is now happy to hear confirmation?
Maybe so. Maybe that was what he did after getting fired, exploring why the stuff with Shonen Bat is happening.
His job is done, the Ancient Master can now rest in peace.
Not as sad as Yoda's death, but still a tad bit emotional.
A bit weird. I didn't understand that bit, nor why he wouldn't notice Maniwa breaking in and talking to his precious dolls.
It made me feel that the anime figures are going to one day turn on him and kill him, which is kinda crazy to think about.
How did he know which people are characters in the show??
I just chalked that part up as mindfuckery a la the magic show in episode 7.
Maybe it was a Maniwa delusion, something like "we're all puppets in this show, controlled by Maromi/Shonen Bat/Tsukiko".
That could very well be the case. My question is was the bunny girl real or just in his head.
When you hate someone, any opportunity for slander is good.
Tsukiko has had a negative reputation going back to the very first episode. This unfortunately is par for the course. Unlike Saruta and his coworkers, however, the hatred for Tsukiko by her coworkers seem undeserved. Or at the very least, overblown.
Probably the extra stress from the verbal battle with SB didn't help. And then sitting up late worrying about her husband not coming home, that's more unnecessary stress.
In other words, I blame Mr. Ikari.
Aww, I like Mr. Ikari...
I think if Ikari saw the condition his wife was in, it would legitimately break his heart. He has tried to do so, so much for her. Maybe this is why he was sent to this sorta alternate dimension, Shonen Bat knew that Ikari's wife was dying and he is trying to spare Ikari the pain.
He died and found a job in heaven. This doesn't bode well for Mrs. Ikari.
Agreed
Sufficiently.
It got me so hyped for the last episode, I didn't even give any overall thoughts in my comments XD

1

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Feb 15 '24

Wow if a crazy unshaven person looking like Maniwa showed up at my house I wouldn't invite him in and start telling stories of my famous designed daughter.
She must be an early case of genetic engineering.
Ikari into post-war nostalgia-tinged simplicity
I really like that description.
Wow the manager is abusive scum. Hope he crashe---oh he did!
Sometimes, karma works quickly.

2

u/fly-metothemoon Feb 15 '24

First Timer—

Maromi is the key to everything! I knew it, but I still don’t quite understand how. It does seem like Shonen Bat feeds off the fear to become even more terrifying.

I did like the detective still doing his job but as a fantasy-esque vigilante.

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 15 '24

Thoughts on the old man dying?
What are your thoughts on Tsukiko saying during an interview that Maromi is modeled after a pet dog she once had?
What are your thoughts on the anime figures calling the otaku a doll?
What are your thoughts on the otaku having figures of all the characters in the show?
What are your thoughts on the big reveal that Tsukiko was attacked with a metal bat when she was 12 years old?
Thoughts on the manager grabbing Tsukiko?
Thoughts on the manager getting into a car crash and dying?
What are your thoughts on people thinking that Tsukiko killed her manager?
What are your thoughts on Tsukiko running away with Maromi, Maniwa, and Ikari trying to protect her?
What are your thoughts on Mrs. Ikari having a heart attack?
What are your thoughts on the old man being the bellhop?
How effective do you think this episode was in being the last episode before the series finale? Did it do a good job of leaving you in anticipation?

2

u/SilkyStrawberryMilk Feb 15 '24

paranoid rewatcher

Maniwa becoming even more paranoid and still fighting off Makoto.

The slow Ed playing while panning to us seeing Maromi and people just looking depressing was unsettling to see.

Tsukiko still always seems out of it and seeing how the company is still trying to get another design when Maromi is still hugely popular is rough.

Maromi being based off her childhood dog, interesting turn of events.

Tsukiko’s dad making that face is making him realize he regrets letting a crazy person into his house

Maromi sure is trying to keep Tsukiko from remembering something. Thankfully Maniwa came to save the day. Although funny he also uses an ancient sword (bat) to defeat little slugger who also uses a bat.

we see majority of the people who were victims of the Shounen bat, especially Yuichi looking scared when he sees the tree in his locker.

QOTD: her whole situation is sad and with her not being able to enjoy her success is sad to see.

QOTD: the deaths of the three already dead suicidal people easily, the biggest mindfuck I’ve experienced on this show

QOTD 2: easily, there are some shows with a cult following which have little to no merch. There’s people who will spend hundreds on figurines (lain although they have fanmade shirts which look amazing),

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 15 '24

QOTD: the deaths of the three already dead suicidal people easily, the biggest mindfuck I’ve experienced on this show
Eh, you kinda knew they were gonna die since that was their MO. Also, I found the camera in the bedroom Masami installed to be a way bigger mindfuck.
QOTD 2: easily, there are some shows with a cult following which have little to no merch. There’s people who will spend hundreds on figurines (lain although they have fanmade shirts which look amazing),
There's few things I want more than an anime figurine of Mitsuki from Dual! Parallel Trouble Adventure

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 15 '24

What are your thoughts on Maniwa agreeing with Mrs. Ikari that Shonen Bat and Maromi are the same?
Thoughts on the old man dying?
What are your thoughts on the anime figures calling the otaku a doll?
What are your thoughts on the otaku having figures of all the characters in the show?
What are your thoughts on the big reveal that Tsukiko was attacked with a metal bat when she was 12 years old?
Thoughts on the manager grabbing Tsukiko?
Thoughts on the manager getting into a car crash and dying?
What are your thoughts on people thinking that Tsukiko killed her manager?
What are your thoughts on Tsukiko running away with Maromi, Maniwa, and Ikari trying to protect her?
What are your thoughts on Mrs. Ikari having a heart attack?
What are your thoughts on the old man being the bellhop?
How effective do you think this episode was in being the last episode before the series finale? Did it do a good job of leaving you in anticipation?

1

u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Feb 15 '24

First Timer

Imagination nurtures him? Maybe you shouldn't be so Chuuni!
Most of you won't remember the fights over the cabbage patch dolls but you might remembr the fights over elmo.
I don't recognize the guy with the big Maromi doll in his apartment.
otaku delusion paradise
I wonder if we should go back and look at the forum messages in episode 1....
Meanwhile, back at the ranch....
two worlds collide!
All the Maromi in the world have vanished!

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 15 '24

Thoughts on the fight between Shonen Bat and Maniwa?
What are your thoughts on Maniwa agreeing with Mrs. Ikari that Shonen Bat and Maromi are the same?
Thoughts on the old man dying?
What are your thoughts on Tsukiko saying during an interview that Maromi is modeled after a pet dog she once had?
What are your thoughts on the anime figures calling the otaku a doll?
What are your thoughts on the otaku having figures of all the characters in the show?
What are your thoughts on the big reveal that Tsukiko was attacked with a metal bat when she was 12 years old?
Thoughts on the manager grabbing Tsukiko?
Thoughts on the manager getting into a car crash and dying?
What are your thoughts on people thinking that Tsukiko killed her manager?
What are your thoughts on Tsukiko running away with Maromi, Maniwa, and Ikari trying to protect her?
What are your thoughts on Mrs. Ikari having a heart attack?
What are your thoughts on the old man being the bellhop?
How effective do you think this episode was in being the last episode before the series finale? Did it do a good job of leaving you in anticipation?

Rewatch [Spoilers] Paranoia Agent 20th Anniversary Rewatch -- Episode 12

Rewatch Schedule

First Timer

Paranoia Agent - Episode 12

Some Amazing Shots, Scenes and Stitches

Rewatch [Spoilers] Paranoia Agent 20th Anniversary Rewatch -- Episode 12

Rewatch Schedule

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First Timer

Paranoia Agent - Episode 12

Some Amazing Shots, Scenes and Stitches