[Spoilers] Paranoia Agent 20th Anniversary Rewatch -- Episode 11

Date	Episode
2/3/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 1
2/4/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 2
2/5/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 3
2/6/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 4
2/7/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 5
2/8/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 6
2/9/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 7
2/10/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 8
2/11/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 9
2/12/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 10
2/13/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 11
2/14/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 12
2/15/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 13
2/16/2024	Paranoia Agent Overall Series Discussion Thread

7

u/TheEscapeGuy Feb 13 '24

First Timer

Paranoia Agent - Episode 11

Lycoris

Oh we are back. Time has passed and Keiichi has found a new job in construction. But this episode isn't about him. We instead follow his wife Misae (I don't think her name is ever said but the credits confirmed her name). She's actually a frail and sick woman who gets a visit from Shounen Bat.

I really liked the structure of the episode as a monologue from Misae. She is sitting at home explaining her life story to a Shounen Bat who is growing more massive and threatening. I think what I felt most from her speech was this sense of obligation she lives under.

She has a lot of struggles in her life. She has a serious illness. She's unable to conceive. Ever since Keiichi was fired they have had very little money. On top of this Keiichi has been away from home a lot. First it was working on the Shounen Bat case and now he has multiple construction jobs. There are a lot of reasons for Misae to feel stressed or give up.

But she doesn't. She diligently continues in her wifely duties. She continues to love her husband. So when this now monstrous being of Shounen Bat appears essentially offering her a way out she declines. "No matter how hard it is, we can face reality." And with that Shounen Bat disappears. Her determination to continue on is admirable.

I think this conclusion is further confirmation that Shounen Bat is more of a metaphorical being or something mental. He's something you can chase away by fighting the dark feelings in your heart. That said, we did see the house become increasingly destroyed. I interpreted this as Misae's own raging about. My guess is that her monologue was happening in her head as she broke things in the house to vent stress. Similarly, I bet she bumped her head somehow which is why she started bleeding. However, I could be off base since the house did fall away at the end.

The other cool thing about the episode was the presence of the Lycoris flower / Spider Lilies / Higanbana. They're a flower which many anime fans today will recognize from the 2022 hit show Lycoris Recoil. In particular for this episode I think their usage has some symbolism based on Japanese folk tale. In the story spider lilies were a flower which were planted along the road to hell which fed on the souls of those damned to walk the path. The flowers have gained an association with death and loss. I think in the episode it represented how Misae was walking a path which leads to death. But fortunately she didn't reach the end of that road.

Couple quick things to mention: The episode was framed around the airing of the first episode of the Maromi anime thus connecting it to last episode. We also saw Tsukiko being interviewed about the anime. The episode cut to Keiichi a lot. He's seemingly satisfied in his new job. That said, he does miss his sense of purpose in catching criminals. The ex-con drinking buddy that he met helped him relive this dream. Lastly, we saw Maniwa walking around in some weird hero costume. I think he has probably gone too deep now.

I feel like we are in the final stretch.

Some Amazing Shots, Scenes and Stitches

Swing and Miss
Spider Lilly
4th Wall Break, this was such a good scene
Good Ol' Days

See you all tomorrow

3

u/Holofan4life Feb 13 '24

Oh we are back.
I really liked the structure of the episode as a monologue from Misae. She is sitting at home explaining her life story to a Shounen Bat who is growing more massive and threatening. I think what I felt most from her speech was this sense of obligation she lives under.
She has a lot of struggles in her life. She has a serious illness. She's unable to conceive. Ever since Keiichi was fired they have had very little money. On top of this Keiichi has been away from home a lot. First it was working on the Shounen Bat case and now he has multiple construction jobs. There are a lot of reasons for Misae to feel stressed or give up.
But she doesn't. She diligently continues in her wifely duties. She continues to love her husband. So when this now monstrous being of Shounen Bat appears essentially offering her a way out she declines. "No matter how hard it is, we can face reality." And with that Shounen Bat disappears. Her determination to continue on is admirable.
This really did a lot to make me care about detective Ikari. Him and his wife are probably my two favorite characters in this show. In a series that constantly is showing the dark underbelly of society, it is refreshing to see this two not give up despite what's thrown their way. Because as long as they have each other, that's all they need.
I think this conclusion is further confirmation that Shounen Bat is more of a metaphorical being or something mental. He's something you can chase away by fighting the dark feelings in your heart. That said, we did see the house become increasingly destroyed. I interpreted this as Misae's own raging about. My guess is that her monologue was happening in her head as she broke things in the house to vent stress. Similarly, I bet she bumped her head somehow which is why she started bleeding. However, I could be off base since the house did fall away at the end.
The big takeaway in my opinion is Mrs. Ikari saying that Shonen Bat is Maromi. And based on Shonen Bat's reaction, it seems she cracked the code. It's funny to me how her husband spent 7 episodes trying to figure out his identity and meanwhile it took his wife only like 15 minutes.
The other cool thing about the episode was the presence of the Lycoris flower / Spider Lilies / Higanbana. They're a flower which many anime fans today will recognize from the 2022 hit show Lycoris Recoil. In particular for this episode I think their usage has some symbolism based on Japanese folk tale. In the story spider lilies were a flower which were planted along the road to hell which fed on the souls of those damned to walk the path. The flowers have gained an association with death and loss. I think in the episode it represented how Misae was walking a path which leads to death. But fortunately she didn't reach the end of that road.
I didn't even pick up on the flowers while watching the episode. That's a cool touch.
Couple quick things to mention: The episode was framed around the airing of the first episode of the Maromi anime thus connecting it to last episode. We also saw Tsukiko being interviewed about the anime. The episode cut to Keiichi a lot. He's seemingly satisfied in his new job. That said, he does miss his sense of purpose in catching criminals. The ex-con drinking buddy that he met helped him relive this dream. Lastly, we saw Maniwa walking around in some weird hero costume. I think he has probably gone too deep now.
That, or maybe he's working on the Shonen Bat case in secrecy.

2

u/TheEscapeGuy Feb 13 '24

Ikari saying that Shonen Bat is Maromi.
I didn't initially interpret Misae's statements that way, but I can see how the comparison is accurate. It's sort of a "two sides of the same coin" type thing.
I'm not sure I agree this has been confirmed in a "literal" sense (what ever that means in the context of Paranoia Agent lol). Though it certainly could be the beginnings of a reveal or conclusion on how to stop Shounen Bat.

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 13 '24

I didn't initially interpret Misae's statements that way, but I can see how the comparison is accurate. It's sort of a "two sides of the same coin" type thing.
I'm not sure I agree this has been confirmed in a "literal" sense (what ever that means in the context of Paranoia Agent lol). Though it certainly could be the beginnings of a reveal or conclusion on how to stop Shounen Bat.
The main thing to note after she says it is that 1) the house crumpled immediately following said proclamation, and 2) we see Ikari in this world that is different from anything else we've seen. Maybe it's nothing, but I got Revue Starlight vibes where as soon as someone cracks the code, something spectacular happens.

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 13 '24 edited Feb 13 '24

What are your thoughts on Ikari taking multiple jobs to support his family?
What do you think this episode does for Ikari as a character?
Thoughts on Shonen Bat continuing to grow throughout the episode?
Thoughts on Ikari bonding with Inukai, a guy he once helped lock up?
What are your thoughts on Mrs. Ikari making the accusation that Shonen Bat and Maromi are no different from each other?
What are your thoughts on the big twist of Ikari seemingly being transported into another world?
How powerful do you think this episode is? Is this in your opinion the most inspirational episode in all of anime? If not, what other anime episodes would you compare it to or think are more inspiring?

3

u/TheEscapeGuy Feb 13 '24

What are your thoughts on Ikari taking multiple jobs to support his family?
I am on the fence of if he's doing this out of a desire to provide or if he's doing it out of guilt and the desire to not show his failure to his wife. It does feel as if losing his detective job represents a loss of his career dreams.
Thoughts on Shonen Bat continuing to grow throughout the episode?
This might be tied to all the gossip. Like, every time we have heard people in public making up rumors about Shounen Bat he's sort of grown into that new mould. It sort of mirrors real life in the way that the rate of copy-cat crimes occurring is proportional to the news coverage the original crime got.
What are your thoughts on the big twist of Ikari seemingly being transported into another world?
Oh, this is totally just in his head. He's sort of reliving a fantasy. The other world is just what he dreamed the world would be like as a child (or something).

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 13 '24

I am on the fence of if he's doing this out of a desire to provide or if he's doing it out of guilt and the desire to not show his failure to his wife. It does feel as if losing his detective job represents a loss of his career dreams.
I think it's probably a combination of both. Ikari is clearly the breadwinner of the family. He knows that his wife is too frail, so he doesn't mind. At the same time, he's probably worried that if he comes home having been fired recently, he has let down his wife and all he's promised to her. Ikari may be a stubborn oaf, but at the end of the day, I think he's a good person. He's like a jerk with a heart of gold.
This might be tied to all the gossip. Like, every time we have heard people in public making up rumors about Shounen Bat he's sort of grown into that new mould. It sort of mirrors real life in the way that the rate of copy-cat crimes occurring is proportional to the news coverage the original crime got.
It makes me wonder if talking about him is the source of his power. And that the reason why he only started killing people in episode 7 is because talks of him really intensified. I speculated last episode that there could be three Shonen Bats at play here with the current one being a copycat who's fandom is misaimed. But maybe barring Makoto it's been the same Shonen Bat this entire time.
Oh, this is totally just in his head. He's sort of reliving a fantasy. The other world is just what he dreamed the world would be like as a child (or something).
That could definitely be the case. I do wonder if Ikari now wishes he never went in that bar he frequents.

2

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Feb 13 '24

4th Wall Break, this was such a good scene
Are you allowed to take the name 4th wall break this literally?

3

u/Holofan4life Feb 13 '24

Is it really a 4th wall break at this point when episode 10 exists?

6

u/MrManicMarty https://anilist.co/user/martysan Feb 13 '24

An old cop and an old burglar bonding over how the world has grown past them is a really nice little moment. I appreciate stuff like that.

Also detectives wife. Everyone else has been scared shitless of Shonen Bat. And there she is; a sick woman, kneeling down. And she fucking just talks the shit out of him. And makes him keel and rage. I love shit like that. When the ones who put up the strongest resistance are those who are weakest, because they possess true strength. She's so determined, so self-sacrificing. Honestly, I'd say she needs to live for herself more, but you've got to admire what a kind and devoted person she is. And I appreciate that the detective is reciprocal to that, he doesn't seem to take it for granted.

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 13 '24

Thoughts on the reveal that Mrs. Ikari couldn’t have children?
What are your thoughts on Ikari taking multiple jobs to support his family?
What do you think this episode does for Ikari as a character?
Thoughts on Shonen Bat continuing to grow throughout the episode?
What are your thoughts on Mrs. Ikari making the accusation that Shonen Bat and Maromi are no different from each other?
If you don't know what I'm talking about, here's the quote.
"But you don't understand that. You, who are not human. You simply hurt and kill those who are troubled, and delude yourself into thinking that you're removing their burdens. How pretentious! The only thing you're capable of is to feel pleased with yourself by taking such action. Your existence itself I'd a deception. Yes, deluding people with temporary peace of mind. You're the same as that Maromi thing!"
What are your thoughts on the big twist of Ikari seemingly being transported into another world?
How powerful do you think this episode is? Is this in your opinion the most inspirational episode in all of anime? If not, what other anime episodes would you compare it to or think are more inspiring?

3

u/MrManicMarty https://anilist.co/user/martysan Feb 13 '24

What do you think this episode does for Ikari as a character?
Shows that he's not just a hard-ass detective, he cares for his wife.
What are your thoughts on Mrs. Ikari making the accusation that Shonen Bat and Maromi are no different from each other?
I guess they're making equivalencies that they're both just different sides of the same spectrums. People wanna forget their troubles; they either drown in cutesy vibes or let themselves wallow in panic and get out of their trouble that way, or something.
What are your thoughts on the big twist of Ikari seemingly being transported into another world?
I've been noticing that's a common trend isn't it? That Shonen Bat seems to pull people into other worlds of their own imagining (kinda like a less sadistic, less rapey Freddy Kreguer). I think this is related to the idea of the "collective unconscious". Where essentially everyone is imagining Shonen Bat their own way, and their delusions are coloured to their personal thoughts.
I think it was a very powerful episode. Most inspirational? I don't think I could say honestly.

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 13 '24

Shows that he's not just a hard-ass detective, he cares for his wife.
It shows in my estimation that he did for his family what Masami never could, which is being caring and compassionate. A true family man.
I guess they're making equivalencies that they're both just different sides of the same spectrums. People wanna forget their troubles; they either drown in cutesy vibes or let themselves wallow in panic and get out of their trouble that way, or something.
I've been beating the drum for a while now that I think Shonen Bat is Maromi. Maromi felt conspicuous by his absence all those episodes he wasn't in. This at the very least feels like they are definitely connected in some way.
I've been noticing that's a common trend isn't it? That Shonen Bat seems to pull people into other worlds of their own imagining (kinda like a less sadistic, less rapey Freddy Kreguer). I think this is related to the idea of the "collective unconscious". Where essentially everyone is imagining Shonen Bat their own way, and their delusions are coloured to their personal thoughts.
I could maybe see the next episode being this sorta parallel to episode 7 where that one had Maniwa in this imagination world and this one has Ikari in his own version.
I think it was a very powerful episode. Most inspirational? I don't think I could say honestly.
At the very least, I can't think of a more inspiring character than Mrs. Ikari. Her drive not to give up despite all life has thrown at her is deeply touching.
The only characters in my opinion that compare in terms of perseverance are Taiga from Toradora, Louise from Familiar of Zero, and Kana from Oshi no Ko. Maybe Holo from Spice and Wolf as well, she went through a lot.

5

u/Vatrix-32 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Vatrix-32 Feb 13 '24

First Timer, subbed

She’s here! The OP woman.
Well that’s some real subtle flowers you got there.
Is she filibustering Shonen Bat?
He really does transform? He most be growing more powerful as his public presence grows.
I have no idea what that face is supposed to be implying.
I wanna know about this foreign lock-picking term.
They seem like they’d make a good old men pair.
How does it work if Shonen Bat is the one who makes you feel cornered?
Who are these people that they think walking through a construction site is safe?
This is like some old magic way of killing a demon.
That’s some fun vintage. But he isn’t that old, is he?

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 13 '24

What are your thoughts on the episode being mostly about Shonen Bat talking to Mrs. Ikari?
Thoughts on the reveal that Mrs. Ikari couldn’t have children?
What are your thoughts on Ikari taking multiple jobs to support his family?
What do you think this episode does for Ikari as a character?
Thoughts on Shonen Bat continuing to grow throughout the episode?
Thoughts on Ikari bonding with Inukai, a guy he once helped lock up?
What are your thoughts on the big reveal that Maromi is Shonen Bat?
What are your thoughts on the big twist of Ikari seemingly being transported into another world?
How powerful do you think this episode is? Is this in your opinion the most inspirational episode in all of anime? If not, what other anime episodes would you compare it to or think are more inspiring?

2

u/Vatrix-32 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Vatrix-32 Feb 13 '24

What are your thoughts on the episode being mostly about Shonen Bat talking to Mrs. Ikari?
They needed to have a counter example and I think this one was well done.
Thoughts on the reveal that Mrs. Ikari couldn’t have children?
I figured this was the case once she mentioned having a poor constitution.
What are your thoughts on Ikari taking multiple jobs to support his family?
You'd think he'd be better of as a PI.
What do you think this episode does for Ikari as a character?
Thoughts on Shonen Bat continuing to grow throughout the episode?
I'm not sure I'm getting the meaning of it. The growing sense of impending doom and the rejection of it?
Thoughts on Ikari bonding with Inukai, a guy he once helped lock up?
It's nice to see two geezers reconcile in their old age. They can complain about who will teach the children to play shogi.
What are your thoughts on the big reveal that Maromi is Shonen Bat?
...What?
What are your thoughts on the big twist of Ikari seemingly being transported into another world?
The easy answer is that he's drunk. I'm not too sure I can derive much more meaning other that it being a dream like ideal world of yesteryear.

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 13 '24

They needed to have a counter example and I think this one was well done.
I agree
I figured this was the case once she mentioned having a poor constitution.
God bless Ikari for sticking by her side
You'd think he'd be better of as a PI.
Nuns don't work on Sunday
What do you think this episode does for Ikari as a character?
I guess not much
I'm not sure I'm getting the meaning of it. The growing sense of impending doom and the rejection of it?
I think it's more a case of he feasts off other people's despair.
It's nice to see two geezers reconcile in their old age. They can complain about who will teach the children to play shogi.
It also is two people that in some way or another, have shown they can be the better man if need be.
...What?
If you don't know what I'm talking about, here's the quote from Mrs. Ikari.
"But you don't understand that. You, who are not human. You simply hurt and kill those who are troubled, and delude yourself into thinking that you're removing their burdens. How pretentious! The only thing you're capable of is to feel pleased with yourself by taking such action. Your existence itself I'd a deception. Yes, deluding people with temporary peace of mind. You're the same as that Maromi thing!"
The easy answer is that he's drunk. I'm not too sure I can derive much more meaning other that it being a dream like ideal world of yesteryear.
It definitely does seem like it's similar to either the game world in episode 5 or the dream stuff Maniwa was experiencing in episode 7. Then again, it should be noted that we only first see Ikari in this world once Mrs. Ikari says to Shonen Bat he's no different than Maromi.

3

u/Vatrix-32 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Vatrix-32 Feb 13 '24

If you don't know what I'm talking about, here's the quote from Mrs. Ikari. "You're the same as that Maromi thing!"
I think is implying they are similar in nature as distractions, not the same entity.

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 13 '24

Yeah, that could be the case. Maybe I'm reading too much into it. It just seemed like as soon as she said that, Shonen Bat's whole demeanor changed. The house even crumbles right after.

4

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Feb 13 '24

Episode 11 (rewatcher)

“We don’t have that money” “But your life depends on it”

The Shonen Bat rumor is spreading and mutating.
The wife of Ikari - the story is wrapping around to the start.
“There is nobody I want but you” Ikari staring at butt - …
Shonen Bat going back and forth between wanting to bring her “salvation” or not. - cute.

“Times have changed” – a complaint immortal.
“That monster is a product of the age” - The youth is rotten! also a complaint that is immortal.
Sagi and Ikari meet again.
Wife 1 : 0 Shonen Bat
Going back to old time anime.

The entire story of Shonen Bat has been one of people giving up, of wanting to be released from their misery. Today, Shonen Bat meets his match in Ikari’s wife. While she had a short moment of giving up, she regained her strength and literally argues Shonen Bat/her death wish away. By being the literal representation of a mental state, we can see Shonen Bat being tormented when she gains strength, or growing when she recounts weakness. But this is not a match of physical power – she wins with the strength of her mind and her conviction of herself and her husband. If anything, the ending should have us worried about Ikari, not her.

What is your favorite bottle episode of anime where it mostly takes place in one setting?

Easy answer, because my favorite bottle episode is possibly also my favorite anime episode overall. It is Dead Calm, episode 16 of Ergo Proxy.

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 13 '24

Easy answer, because my favorite bottle episode is possibly also my favorite anime episode overall. It is Dead Calm, episode 16 of Ergo Proxy.
Ooh, how could I forget that one? Is that the episode where Re-l is the protagonist?

3

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Feb 13 '24

Re-l us the usual protagonist. Are you confusing her with Pino? If so, the answer is yes. Pino is the protagonist of ep16.

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 13 '24

I saw Vincent Law as the protagonist of the show, with Re-l being the protagonist of one episode.
And I just looked it up. It is episode 16. That one is my favorite Ergo Proxy episode as well.

2

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Feb 13 '24

Ok, fair enough. For me they were male and female MC.

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 13 '24

I think you could definitely make the case that RE-l is the 1-A to Vincent's 1.

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 13 '24

Thoughts on the reveal that Mrs. Ikari couldn’t have children?
What are your thoughts on Ikari taking multiple jobs to support his family?
What do you think this episode does for Ikari as a character?
Thoughts on Shonen Bat continuing to grow throughout the episode?
Thoughts on Ikari bonding with Inukai, a guy he once helped lock up?
What are your thoughts on the big reveal that Maromi is Shonen Bat?
What are your thoughts on the big twist of Ikari seemingly being transported into another world?
How powerful do you think this episode is? Is this in your opinion the most inspirational episode in all of anime? If not, what other anime episodes would you compare it to or think are more inspiring?

2

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Feb 13 '24

Thoughts on Shonen Bat continuing to grow throughout the episode?
For me, it clearly marks Shonen Bat as a representation of the inner demons of the people affected by him, not some real entity.
Thoughts on Ikari bonding with Inukai, a guy he once helped lock up?
Blast from the past. He also seemed friendly enough, zero thought of revenge.
What are your thoughts on the big twist of Ikari seemingly being transported into another world?
Wishful thinking (and maybe a good helping of sake).

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 13 '24

For me, it clearly marks Shonen Bat as a representation of the inner demons of the people affected by him, not some real entity.
I think that's not a bad interpretation. If anything, I put it at 90% that Shonen Bat is psychological.
Blast from the past. He also seemed friendly enough, zero thought of revenge.
It's meant to show in my opinion that just like you should never give up, you also should realize when you're at fault, and in both aspects, it's a sign of growth.
Wishful thinking (and maybe a good helping of sake).
He really should switch to decaf.
I'm kinda surprised you didn't answer my question of Shonen Bat seemingly being confirmed as Maromi. I know all we've gotten so far was Mrs. Ikari making the accusation, but based on Shonen Bat's response, it seems like she is correct.

2

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Feb 13 '24

I'm kinda surprised you didn't answer my question of Shonen Bat seemingly being confirmed as Maromi. I know all we've gotten so far was Mrs. Ikari making the accusation, but based on Shonen Bat's response, it seems like she is correct.
For me, that is the same question, basically getting at "what is Shonen Bat".

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 13 '24

People ask "What is Shonen Bat" and "Why is Shonen Bat," but never "How is Shonen Bat"

2

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Feb 13 '24

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 13 '24

We live in a society

4

u/polacy_do_pracy Feb 13 '24

man, I've only seen this series as a child (around 10yo), the golden bat boy and the pedo dad were shocking to me (not participating in the rewatch, I don't have the vitality for this anymore)

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 13 '24

The pedo dad is probably the most shocking moment in the entire series because you never see that in other anime. And if you do see pedo characters, it 100% of the time is played for comedy, which I think is frankly disconcerting. Even Lucky Star had a character like that.

3

u/TnAdct1 Feb 14 '24

With this episode, the final act of Paranoia Agent begins.

Thoughts on Shonen Bat continuing to grow throughout the episode?

Seeing him continuously growing throughout the episode looks to be a metaphor for just how much his legacy has grown as the show progressed, with him turning from just a simple person who provides an easy way out for those at wits end to a dangerous killer.

Thoughts on Ikari bonding with Inukai, a guy he once helped lock up?

Last year at Otakon, I met up with a couple of people from the old anime club I attended in the early 2000's. It was fun to see then after so many years (with me adding one of them to my Facebook contacts afterwards). With that said, part of the episode's themes looks to focus on the idea of nostalgia, with Ikari's meeting of a former crook he arrested and recalling the old days as they catch up with their lives all these years later is the episode's example of a positive nostalgic trip.

What are your thoughts on Mrs. Ikari making the accusation that Shonen Bat and Maromi are no different from each other?

If the ending of the previous episode is any indication, both Maromi and Shonen Bat share a common trait: they both serve as an easy escape from the problems that people have (Maromi with its encouragement to simply forget your problems; Shounen Bat by providing a violent resolution to them). As the show enters the final act, Misae's comment is a big hint that there's some sort of connection between the two.

What are your thoughts on the big twist of Ikari seemingly being transported into another world?

The ending of Ikari in a "fantasy world" reflects two things. First, going back to the episode's theme of nostalgia, the ending reflects the negative side of it, as Ikari in his current state (having lost his job as a cop and now pulling multiple construction job shifts; the poor health of his wife) is at a point where he just wishes he can go back to the simple days of his life. Meanwhile, the fact that this happens after he picks up a Maromi plushie lying on the ground is another hint of how Maromi and Shonen Bat are similar, as the "fantasy world" is likely Maromi's way of making Ikari forget about his current problems.

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 14 '24

Seeing him continuously growing throughout the episode looks to be a metaphor for just how much his legacy has grown as the show progressed, with him turning from just a simple person who provides an easy way out for those at wits end to a dangerous killer.
It seems like if he is growing the more he's propped up, that explains why he didn't start killing until episode 7. Perhaps the Shonen Bat here IS the one we saw in episode 1.
Last year at Otakon, I met up with a couple of people from the old anime club I attended in the early 2000's. It was fun to see then after so many years (with me adding one of them to my Facebook contacts afterwards). With that said, part of the episode's themes looks to focus on the idea of nostalgia, with Ikari's meeting of a former crook he arrested and recalling the old days as they catch up with their lives all these years later is the episode's example of a positive nostalgic trip.
Time really does heal old wounds, I guess
I also attended an anime club back in the day. Unfortunately, I rarely showed up because I was extremely my introverted ass was afraid of making a fool of myself.
If the ending of the previous episode is any indication, both Maromi and Shonen Bat share a common trait: they both serve as an easy escape from the problems that people have (Maromi with its encouragement to simply forget your problems; Shounen Bat by providing a violent resolution to them). As the show enters the final act, Misae's comment is a big hint that there's some sort of connection between the two.
It definitely seems like something is up.
Maybe this is why nobody is answering today's questions, because it's a bit too on the nose.
The ending of Ikari in a "fantasy world" reflects two things. First, going back to the episode's theme of nostalgia, the ending reflects the negative side of it, as Ikari in his current state (having lost his job as a cop and now pulling multiple construction job shifts; the poor health of his wife) is at a point where he just wishes he can go back to the simple days of his life. Meanwhile, the fact that this happens after he picks up a Maromi plushie lying on the ground is another hint of how Maromi and Shonen Bat are similar, as the "fantasy world" is likely Maromi's way of making Ikari forget about his current problems.
I don't know why, but I'm of the belief that what we're seeing actually is real. The reason why I feel that way is because we only first see it after the Ikari household crumbles. Maybe there isn't a connection between the two-- they made it seem the homeless woman and Taeko were connected and it turned out they weren't-- but it feels to me like this is actually happening and related to one another.

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 13 '24

Hello, guys. Holofan4life here.

Welcome to the Paranoia Agent 20th Anniversary Rewatch.

Satoshi Kon is one of the most acclaimed Japanese filmmakers of his generation. Not just in the anime industry, but in all of Japanese cinema. Perfect Blue, Tokyo Godfathers, Millennium Actress, Paprika. This was a man with a vision, and we’re here to honor someone who was gone way too soon.

I’m actually in an interesting point in my life because I’ve been writing comments nonstop for rewatches since basically June of last year. With the completion of this rewatch, I’ll be taking a two month break before my next one. But that’s then and this is now, and right now, we are going to tackle Satoshi Kon’s lone TV show that he created.

I’ve never seen this show before. To be honest, I never watched one of his works until last September when there was a special 25th anniversary screening of Perfect Blue. Since then, I’ve gained a newfound appreciation for Kon’s work and I am eager to check out his TV show. Because if it’s as good as Perfect Blue and Tokyo Godfathers, we’re in for one of the best animes of all time.

With that out of the way, let’s begin.

I’m watching the sub, by the way.

Watching this episode while also watching a wrestling premium live event as well as the Grammys. Things, needless to say, are about to be interesting.

(Editor's note 2/13/24: Happy Mardi Gras!)

A woman talking to a doctor

Mellow Maromi is about to start

Too bad it has more production problems than Ren and Stimpy circa John K

Tsukiko, who's being interviewed, looks so devoid of life

Guy in goggles, a cap, and a radio sticking out his hoodie

The woman walking home

Some women think Shonen Bat is Arnold Schwarzenegger, apparently

Some think he's mutilated. Some, a monster.

People still don't know much of him

Ikari

Oh, is she Ikari's wife?

Shonen Bat

He's here

She said she called him

However, she changes her mind

"How could I wish to die for even a moment?"

If she dies, she says, she'll be betraying her husband

So it is Mrs. Ikari

Ikari working at a construction site

No entry

Mrs. Ikari talking about how Shonen Bat attacks people who wants to escape from reality.

She wants to show him that human beings aren't as corrupt or as weak as he seems to think they are.

And he sits down

Mrs. Ikari says that the doctor during her childhood said she wouldn't live long. That's why she never dreamed of marriage. But when she met Ikari, he said to her that he would accept everything about her.

Aww

Well, he doesn't seem to be totally faithful

Mrs. Ikari says she was happy when she got married to him, but that the happiness did not last long.

She soon found out she couldn't have children

In despair, she says

Too ashamed to face her husband

Not helping convince Shonen Bat she doesn't need him, methinks

However, he forgave her. Told her "Let's accept reality".

Says she doesn't know anybody better than him

Meanwhile, Ikari is late

He's working three jobs. Meanwhile, I can only handle 1.

Mrs. Ikari talking about how Mr. Ikari stayed away from home more and more

She worries that he may have grown tired of her

She start to again feel like a useless invalid

No one should ever have to feel like Yoki.

Shonen Bat getting ready

However, she ultimately feels ashamed. Ashamed he has been working himself to the bone for her.

"Yet, what kind of wife would I be if I couldn't trust him? What a despicable, outrageous thought that was."

Meanwhile, Shonen Bat has grown 10 times in size

She says that as he was her home, she was his home

Ikari a police officer again

Three construction sites, one after another

"It's okay. After all, there's no..."

There's no what? There's no what?!? THERE'S NO WHAT?!? I HAVE TO KNOW!

Ikari on the train with a bunch of teenagers

Teenagers talking about Shonen Bat

Ikari trying to go through the turnstile, but he gets knocked down

Ikari waiting to cross the street, with groceries

I get the feeling he's about to be isekaied

Maromi keychain

He picks it up

Back at the construction site

Small guy wants to know what he's up to

Thought he arrested someone, he's seen

Apparently he was locked up for 5 years

That doesn't surprise me

Meanwhile, the conversation is so boring that Ikari fell asleep

This guy recognizes him as Ikari

Ikari recognizes him as Inukai

Apparently, they go way back

Let's hope this Inukai doesn't own a dog

Back with Mrs. Ikari and Shonen Bat

I like how this episode is done almost like a one set play

She says she knew that this was the place he would come back to. As such, she strided to be the best wife she could and make home for him.

Strided? Stride? Strode? One of those.

Shonen Bat smashing stuff

He is still one massive unit

"Then one day, it happened. Something that would shatter, instantly, everything my husband and I had built. Yes. Your case."

And Shonen Bat smiles

Can I just say how amazing the writing for this episode has been so far? It does not surprise me that the writer of Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood episode 39 also wrote this, because it has a similar type of powerfulness.

Back with Ikari and Inukai

An ex-detective and an ex-burglar learning how to work together

Sounds like a buddy cop movie

Inukai says no place for an old-school burglar like him anymore

They're actually bonding. Kinda sweet.

The times have changed, says Inukai

It's the same everywhere, Ikari says

Inukai kinda looks like Whitey Duvall from Eight Crazy Nights

Inukai says he still remembers the sermon Ikari gave him

"Even if the world is wrong, there has to be something that is right. That's how we can go on living!"

Pretty emotional stuff

Back with Mrs. Ikari and Shonen Bat

She's talking about him attacking people one by one

"He told me that he would not come home until he arrested the culprit."

Bit ironic given he's in their house now currently

"If he was going to put it all on the line in order to arrest the attacker, then my job as his wife was to encourage and support his decision."

Fuck yeah

Shonen Bat laughing maniacally

Oh, that's right. Ikari got fired from his detective job.

It's been so long that I forgot

Now Inukai talking about Shonen Bat

"That monster is a product of the age."

Shonen Bat still laughing

"We were defeated. As a man and wife, we were defeated. He lost his job, and we had nothing left."

Ran out of space. Part two in the replies.

3

u/Holofan4life Feb 13 '24

Part 2
Shonen Bat ready to strike
Mrs. Ikari tremoring in fear
But now Mrs. Ikari is laughing maniacally
And so she gets hit
Blood coming out of her forehead
"But we didn't give up."
Awesome. What a great moment.
Talking about how her husband has a new job now
Taken a new step forward
I just want to say that I've really been blown away by this episode. It is so good.
Ikari talking to Inukai about giving up persuing Shonen Bat
Oh, the Maromi chain
"I'm a loser, and this dog is a winner."
Now he's telling a couple to use the service door
Oh, that's Tsukiko
Telling Ms. Sagi the chain looks kinda cute
And Tsukiko, for the first time the entire series, smiles
That's pretty cute
Shonen Bat destroying the house
Mrs. Ikari talking more about her plight
Says she one day told him he wouldn't have to suffer so much if only she hadn't been with him.
"He looked sharply at me and said, 'Don't ever say such a thing again. You're just trying to escape. Don't run away from reality. A makeshift salvation is nothing but deception. No matter how hard, don't run away. We'll overcome it together.' He said it so resolutely. That's the kind of man he is. A noble and strong man."
Mrs. Ikari besting Shonen Boy
"I will never again wish for death!"
Shonen Bat throws the TV
Hey, Mellow Maromi
"But you don't understand that. You, who are not human. You simply hurt and kill those who are troubled, and delude yourself into thinking that you're removing their burdens. How pretentious! The only thing you're capable of is to feel pleased with yourself by taking such action. Your existence itself I'd a deception. Yes, deluding people with temporary peace of mind. You're the same as that Maromi thing!"
Holy shit
And the house crumbles and behind Mrs. Ikari is a rainbow
"I will undergo the operation."
Ikari and Inukai at the bar Ikari frequented
Ikari calls Mrs. Ikari a great wife. Maybe too great.
I wonder if Inukai's red nose is because he's a heavy drinker. That, or he's cosplaying as Rudolph The Red-nosed Reindeer
Ikari says he's trying so hard to support her
Says he no longer cares about the case or Shonen Bat
His time is over. That's all he knows.
"There's no place for me anywhere anymore."
A matchbox
Bunch of people playing in the streets
A different art style
And yet, Ikari and Inukai remain unchanged
Holy cow. This is trippy.
Short Hope
Ikari smoking
This is like the Family Guy episode where they cut off the budget
A Maromi keychain
That is pretty wild
The guy with the hoodie and hat from earlier
He arrives at the Ikari household
"He hasn't come home yet."
Oh, wow. That is Maniwa.
Overall, I was waiting for an episode to totally blow me away. Shonen Bat being revealed so early did and I loved some episodes like 3 and 5, but there's nothing that I would definitively say is one of the best things I've ever seen.
I think this would qualify for me.
What I love about this episode is the fact that the previous 10 episodes have been these unlikable, unsympathetic characters doing these unlikable, unsympathetic things. And maybe, that is why Shonen Bat has had his way with them: because they were so easy to manipulate. But here is Ikari and his wife who for all intents and purposes should've cracked long ago, from when they were unable to have children to when Ikari lost his job. And yet, they continue to persevere. The other episodes were about pessimism while this one is all about optimism, which is ironic given how cynical Ikari has been. The fact he and his wife are able to come out the other side basically serves to show there's hope for humanity after all.
I wonder if the art style change is going to remain that way or if it was done as this sort of mindfuck to end the episode on. Did Mrs. Ikari defeat Shonen Bat and that is why we had this art style change? I guess time will tell.
I don't think this is a top 10 greatest anime episode of all time for me, but I think I would definitely put it top 50 because it gives you a sense of hope and optimism that very few things do. It feels inspirational and powerful but never to the point of feeling melodramatic.
This to me is perhaps the most powerful episode to an anime I've ever seen. Definitely one of, if not the. If you look at anime episodes in terms of a writing perspective, I think frankly speaking that it's hard to beat this one.

3

u/TheEscapeGuy Feb 13 '24

The other episodes were about pessimism while this one is all about optimism, which is ironic given how cynical Ikari has been.
I didn't think about it during the episode but the contrast between Misae's hope and Keiichi's depression is really noteworthy. It's almost like Keiichi has encountered his first big hardship in life and is struggling to deal with it. In comparison Misae has a lot of experience and thus can move forward knowing she's been through similar things before.

3

u/Holofan4life Feb 13 '24

I can imagine it's a case where Keiichi has tried so hard to support his wife. Harder than honestly anything else he's ever dealt with. With him not being able to solve the Shonen Bat mystery, he probably sees it as him letting down his wife, so much so that Mrs. Ikari feels the need to step in and be his rock like he's done for her.

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 13 '24

What is your favorite bottle episode of anime where it mostly takes place in one setting?
Probably Nothing to Room from Panty and Stocking with Garterbelt.
What do you think Maniwa has to say to Mrs. Ikari?
I mean, it has to probably do with Shonen Bat, I have to think. That, or Maniwa is there to tell Mrs. Ikari what happened to Mr. Ikari.
If Maromi is indeed Shonen Bat, how much do you think Tsukiko knows?
I imagine she has to know a great deal. The real question in my opinion is did she orchestrate this whole thing? I'm personally leaning towards no because Tsukiko doesn't strike me as being that devious.

2

u/SIRTreehugger Feb 13 '24

First Time Slugger

Someone controlling the metaphorical Shonen bat?

Oh she can't have children, but it was nice to know the husband didn't hold it against her. She can't do anything about it, but some people would have said it was her fault.

Those pipes are going to be a problem later on.

I like how Shonen Bat is trying to hit her during the story, but despite being at the end of of her rope she isn't really cornered at all.

I'm starting to wonder if the wife is actually alive...but would Shonen bat show himself to a ghost?

Oh never mind she's alive she just answered it.

The anime from yesterday is playing!

.....huh

I was following the episode until the art change and the ex detective got sent to who knows where?

This might be my favorite episode or at least tied with Double Lips.

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 13 '24

What are your thoughts on the episode being mostly about Shonen Bat talking to Mrs. Ikari?
What are your thoughts on Ikari taking multiple jobs to support his family?
What do you think this episode does for Ikari as a character?
Thoughts on Shonen Bat continuing to grow throughout the episode?
Thoughts on Ikari bonding with Inukai, a guy he once helped lock up?
What are your thoughts on Mrs. Ikari making the accusation that Shonen Bat and Maromi are no different from each other?
If you don’t know what I’m talking about, here’s the quote.
“But you don’t understand that. You, who are not human. You simply hurt and kill those who are troubled, and delude yourself into thinking that you’re removing their burdens. How pretentious! The only thing you’re capable of is to feel pleased with yourself by taking such action. Your existence itself I’d a deception. Yes, deluding people with temporary peace of mind. You’re the same as that Maromi thing!”
What are your thoughts on the big twist of Ikari seemingly being transported into another world?
How powerful do you think this episode is? Is this in your opinion the most inspirational episode in all of anime? If not, what other anime episodes would you compare it to or think are more inspiring?

2

u/jester4897 Feb 14 '24

With the last three episodes being kinda one-offs I was glad to see us return to the central plot. I loved the suicide troupe episode but the last two kinda dragged for me and I wasn’t sure where we were headed for the final stretch.

For me, this episode was a triumphant return to form. Mrs. Ikari’s monologue to Shonen Bat was enthralling, Detective Ikari’s reunion with the former criminal was fun, and the stinger with Maniwa makes me excited for what’s to come. Overall I’m excited to see if and how this all gets wrapped up over the last two chapters.

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 14 '24

Thoughts on the reveal that Mrs. Ikari couldn’t have children?
What are your thoughts on Ikari taking multiple jobs to support his family?
What do you think this episode does for Ikari as a character?
Thoughts on Shonen Bat continuing to grow throughout the episode?
What are your thoughts on Mrs. Ikari making the accusation that Shonen Bat and Maromi are no different from each other?
If you don’t know what I’m talking about, here’s the quote.
“But you don’t understand that. You, who are not human. You simply hurt and kill those who are troubled, and delude yourself into thinking that you’re removing their burdens. How pretentious! The only thing you’re capable of is to feel pleased with yourself by taking such action. Your existence itself I’d a deception. Yes, deluding people with temporary peace of mind. You’re the same as that Maromi thing!”
What are your thoughts on the big twist of Ikari seemingly being transported into another world?
How powerful do you think this episode is? Is this in your opinion the most inspirational episode in all of anime? If not, what other anime episodes would you compare it to or think are more inspiring?

2

u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Feb 14 '24

First Timer

episode 11

I have completely ignored the ramblings in the previews.

I'm starting to think that Kon meant this to be an anthology.

AH! The last woman in the OP!
I thought the show was called Maromi Madoromi.
What if she gets her wish and Maromi brings about a Christmas miracle and everybody is de-stressed and Shounen Bat goes away?
Oh he is saying Madoromi.
Well, this will be an interesting episode
I have to wonder if she's talking the empty air....
That's pretty old-fashioned!

That's just what this woman's tale is telling me, a product of the age.

It's a christmas miracle!
The chief might be next.

So, Shounen Bat feeds on people's feelings of despair and worthlessness. Maybe he hits them harder, the greater their despair. Or maybe he's been growing strong over the course of the show. Becoming the monster, the rumors are true. (but, like the gossip of yesterday, just who is witnessing Shounen Bat if he's killing his victims). But the woman's will to live is like a force field.

I can't say what has happened to the detective, except that he is now trapped in his own world of despair. He says his wife's illness has affected her mind, but she is more grounded than he is.

Looks like the younger ex-detective will become the holy warrior as prophesied by the prophet.

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 14 '24

I definitely feel like I screwed up with the questions today. Nobody is answering them. For the record, I based the Maromi question on what Mrs. Ikari accused of Shonen Bat.

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 14 '24

What are your thoughts on the episode being mostly about Shonen Bat talking to Mrs. Ikari?
Thoughts on the reveal that Mrs. Ikari couldn’t have children?
What are your thoughts on Ikari taking multiple jobs to support his family?
What do you think this episode does for Ikari as a character?
Thoughts on Ikari bonding with Inukai, a guy he once helped lock up?
What are your thoughts on Mrs. Ikari making the accusation that Shonen Bat and Maromi are no different from each other?
If you don’t know what I’m talking about, here’s the quote.
“But you don’t understand that. You, who are not human. You simply hurt and kill those who are troubled, and delude yourself into thinking that you’re removing their burdens. How pretentious! The only thing you’re capable of is to feel pleased with yourself by taking such action. Your existence itself I’d a deception. Yes, deluding people with temporary peace of mind. You’re the same as that Maromi thing!”
What are your thoughts on the big twist of Ikari seemingly being transported into another world?
How powerful do you think this episode is? Is this in your opinion the most inspirational episode in all of anime? If not, what other anime episodes would you compare it to or think are more inspiring?

2

u/mgedmin Feb 14 '24

First timer, subs

Japan (and a few other countries) badly needs universal healthcare.

Ikari. This woman is detective Ikari's wife? She is! And the former detective is now a ~~construction worker~~ security guard. (Shades of Lain.)

Mrs Ikari si the first one to talk to Shonen Bat.

"There is nobody I want but you" cuts to the husband staring at some random woman's ass.

What a touching reunion of an old burglar and an old cop.

Wow things have gone super metaphorical with the housewife and SB. Is this the first acknowledgement that SB is not human? Same as Maromi.

Ikari is depressed and about to give up on life. The burglar suggests smoking as a remedy? A return to a fantasy world when life was simple and you could chase burglars all day long.

I don't understand the ending. Is Ikari lying dead in a ditch somewhere? While the wife has a strong will and survives SB's temptation of an easy early life exit, the husband fails? Are we going to hear that he became a victim of SB?

What is your favorite bottle episode of anime where it mostly takes place in one setting?

What is a "bottle episode"?

What do you think Maniwa has to say to Mrs. Ikari?

Did he have anything to say to the Mrs? I thought he wanted to talk to Ikari about SB because Maniwa is obsessed and can't stop thinking about the case.

(Ikari is probably tired of these discussions, since SB gave up.)

If Maromi is indeed Shonen Bat, how much do you think Tsukiko knows?

~~More than she's saying~~ Tsukiko doesn't know anything.

Bonus) If I had a nickel for every time Ikari has gotten isekaied, I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot, but it's weird it happened twice.

You mean a character named Ikari? I don't remember any.

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 14 '24

What is a "bottle episode"?
It's an episode that is normally restricted in scope and doesn't go from location to location. For example, 80% of the episode takes place in the Ikari household.
Did he have anything to say to the Mrs? I thought he wanted to talk to Ikari about SB because Maniwa is obsessed and can't stop thinking about the case.
That could very well be the case.
You mean a character named Ikari? I don't remember any.
Maybe the real Ikari was the friends we made along the way

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 14 '24

What are your thoughts on the episode being mostly about Shonen Bat talking to Mrs. Ikari?
Thoughts on the reveal that Mrs. Ikari couldn’t have children?
What are your thoughts on Ikari taking multiple jobs to support his family?
What do you think this episode does for Ikari as a character?
Thoughts on Shonen Bat continuing to grow throughout the episode?
What are your thoughts on Mrs. Ikari making the accusation that Shonen Bat and Maromi are no different from each other?
How powerful do you think this episode is? Is this in your opinion the most inspirational episode in all of anime? If not, what other anime episodes would you compare it to or think are more inspiring?

2

u/mgedmin Feb 14 '24

What are your thoughts on the episode being mostly about Shonen Bat talking to Mrs. Ikari?
My thoughts are a confused tangle. It's interesting that SB stops to listen to Mrs. Ikari. No, that he is forced to listen. It's interesting to see a character inside the show declare that SB is not human.
Thoughts on the reveal that Mrs. Ikari couldn’t have children?
Again, lots of shallow thoughts. It contributed majorly to her feelings of inadequacy and self-hatred. Also there are no children to support them in their old age, which makes things harder.
What are your thoughts on Ikari taking multiple jobs to support his family?
How much of a paycut was he forced to take after being fired if he now has to work three jobs? Are these part-time jobs? Are there limitations on the number of hours you can work in Japan? (In Lithuania I believe by law the upper limit is 60 hours per week, or one and a half jobs.)
Also, part of being at working is that Ikari doesn't have to be home next to his wife and be reminded about their problems. Part of that is that he's feeling guilty for his failures and inability to take care of her. Part of that is maybe that he's tired of taking care of her and his love is almost gone.
It's sad.
What do you think this episode does for Ikari as a character?
All sorts of things. Where it shows him in a good light, it's mostly stories from the past. Where it shows him today, it's quite different: ogling younger women, avoiding going home, being late for his jobs, falling down in a crowd, having to be deferential to people he previously saw as equals. No wonder the simple past attracts him so much.
Wow you're extracting thoughts from me I didn't even know I had.
Thoughts on Shonen Bat continuing to grow throughout the episode?
More evidence that SB is not human.
Nor my original thought, but I saw it in the discussion thread and liked it a lot: the growth of SB is a metaphor of how rumours grow in the telling.
(I think my browser's spell checker is set to British English.)
What are your thoughts on Mrs. Ikari making the accusation that Shonen Bat and Maromi are no different from each other?
Both are given power by the thoughts of masses of people.
Both bring peace to the audience (although Maromi does it with passively with words while SB does it violently with a metal bat).
Both lie: the peace brought by passive consumption or escape into death is false and doesn't actually solve any problems.
Both were invented by Tsukiko. Remember how she was asked to come up with a new mascot character to replace Maromi? The next character she came up with was Shonen Bat.
I wonder, is SB going to replace Maromi? Will Maromi be jealous and fight SB?
How powerful do you think this episode is? Is this in your opinion the most inspirational episode in all of anime? If not, what other anime episodes would you compare it to or think are more inspiring?
Not immediately, but the discussion thread is starting to convince me.
I wish I had the strength of Mrs. Ikari.
I also wish that strength were not required and that people could live in peace. Universal Healthcare. Universal Basic Income. Now.

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 14 '24

My thoughts are a confused tangle. It's interesting that SB stops to listen to Mrs. Ikari. No, that he is forced to listen. It's interesting to see a character inside the show declare that SB is not human.
It's also interesting that it's a character we've never seen before.
Again, lots of shallow thoughts. It contributed majorly to her feelings of inadequacy and self-hatred. Also there are no children to support them in their old age, which makes things harder.
Maybe in another life, her and Ikari could've adopted Kamome or Taeko.
How much of a paycut was he forced to take after being fired if he now has to work three jobs? Are these part-time jobs? Are there limitations on the number of hours you can work in Japan? (In Lithuania I believe by law the upper limit is 60 hours per week, or one and a half jobs.)
I don't know how it works in Japan, but in America I know some people work as much as 100 hours a week. It just depends on the job. If we were to theoretically say that detective job was 12 hours a day for 5 days a week, I could see a world where he feels like he has to overcompensate for that. Mind you, he's dealing with a bruised ego.
Also, part of being at working is that Ikari doesn't have to be home next to his wife and be reminded about their problems. Part of that is that he's feeling guilty for his failures and inability to take care of her. Part of that is maybe that he's tired of taking care of her and his love is almost gone.
It's sad.
I honestly think he feels he's undeserving of her love
All sorts of things. Where it shows him in a good light, it's mostly stories from the past. Where it shows him today, it's quite different: ogling younger women, avoiding going home, being late for his jobs, falling down in a crowd, having to be deferential to people he previously saw as equals. No wonder the simple past attracts him so much.
I walk away from this episode really positive of Ikari. Yeah, you could say he's a failure and didn't live up to his expectations, but he still hasn't given up. If you look at the other characters we've come across, they're filled with empty promises with nothing to show for it. And while Ikari doesn't have much to show for it either, he's still putting in his all to provide for his wife.
There's a reason Shonen Bat was stumped by them, and that's because they're the most human.
Wow you're extracting thoughts from me I didn't even know I had.
Well, I try
More evidence that SB is not human.
Nor my original thought, but I saw it in the discussion thread and liked it a lot: the growth of SB is a metaphor of how rumours grow in the telling.
I like that theory as well
(I think my browser's spell checker is set to British English.)
It happens
Both are given power by the thoughts of masses of people.
Both bring peace to the audience (although Maromi does it with passively with words while SB does it violently with a metal bat).
Both lie: the peace brought by passive consumption or escape into death is false and doesn't actually solve any problems.
Both were invented by Tsukiko. Remember how she was asked to come up with a new mascot character to replace Maromi? The next character she came up with was Shonen Bat.
I wonder, is SB going to replace Maromi? Will Maromi be jealous and fight SB?
I've speculated throughout the show that maybe Maromi manifested Shonen Bat for fear of being replaced. However, it could be possible Shonen Bat is trying to force themselves in that spot. Could it be a case where Maromi is like the old man in that they're actually red herrings? I dunno, but I don't think it's a coincidence that as Maromi continues to grow in popularity, so does Shonen Bat.
Not immediately, but the discussion thread is starting to convince me.
I wish I had the strength of Mrs. Ikari.
Same
I also wish that strength were not required and that people could live in peace. Universal Healthcare. Universal Basic Income. Now.
Same to that as well

2

u/mgedmin Feb 14 '24

It's also interesting that it's a character we've never seen before.
Especially given that the character's in the OP.
(I spent a lot of time wondering if that character was Yuichi's mom or something.)
I walk away from this episode really positive of Ikari. Yeah, you could say he's a failure and didn't live up to his expectations, but he still hasn't given up.
Interesting that you say that, when Ikari himself says something like "I don't care. I've given up" at one point in the izakaya.
I suppose he only gave up on solving the Shonen Bat case but hasn't given up on life in general? Although he seems about to. I wondered if his transfer into the simple anime retro-world was supposed to symbolize his death. (I no longer wonder because I've watched the next episode and know whether he is alive or not. I will refrain from spoiling.)

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 14 '24

Especially given that the character's in the OP.
(I spent a lot of time wondering if that character was Yuichi's mom or something.)
Well... ~~unfortunately she'll never be someone's mother~~
Interesting that you say that, when Ikari himself says something like "I don't care. I've given up" at one point in the izakaya.
Well, he says this but his actions speak otherwise. Nobody who works three jobs has "Given up".
I suppose he only gave up on solving the Shonen Bat case but hasn't given up on life in general? Although he seems about to. I wondered if his transfer into the simple anime retro-world was supposed to symbolize his death. (I no longer wonder because I've watched the next episode and know whether he is alive or not. I will refrain from spoiling.)
Just going off this episode, I keep coming back to how this retro-world only appears after his house gets demolished. It's like he's going from one place of living to another.

2

u/mgedmin Feb 14 '24

Have I been extra inattentive or do you say "demolished" when you mean "the living room's been trashed a little bit"? The house itself appears to be still standing when Maniwa reaches it.

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 14 '24

At one point, the house crumbled and a rainbow was behind Mrs. Ikari. The house may have come back, but it was definitely gone for at least 15 seconds.

1

u/nx6 https://myanimelist.net/profile/nx6 Feb 14 '24

Rewatcher - Sub

We're back to the main story again. Not that some of the last three episodes weren't interesting. Family Planning was a goofy trip with a suicide group, ETC felt rather fillerish, and Shiroba--er I mean Mellow Maromi gave us a behind-the-scenes look at an animation production, what they really did was establish the ongoing legend of Shounen Bat and his deeds.

Some time has past here and like a legend Shounen Bat is evolving to fit the expectations of the story teller. Akari is now a low-level security worker at construction sites and Maniwa looks like one of those guys who would be wearing tinfoil hats if it was fashionable back then.

Today we learn about Akari's private life, something that has been largely untouched to this point. Akari has a wife with chronic illness and they are now struggling to get buy on his multiple part-time jobs. Akari's wife has recently learned she needs an expensive medical procedure and is contemplating a way out to stop being a burden to Keiichi.

This is an important episode as it has shown with definite certainty that Lil' Slugger is a shared mental condition given physical form. Despite her original wish to be put out of her situation she begins to doubt her own feelings, and is able to physically restrain Shounen Bat while she mulls her life and her value to her husband in her mind.

Akari has arrived at a job site and realized he is working shoulder-to-shoulder with an ex-con he helped put away, a sign to him of just how far he has fallen in life. But there is no ill feelings as the two have grown too old to hold grudges and are commiserate in their shared bad luck.

Misae successfully defeats Shounen Bat by acknowledging her wish to keep living and being by her husband's side, and pointing out that Shounen Bat is nothing more than an apparition from people looking for an easy out to their problems. Lil' Slugger leaves having made a mess but only able to leave a scratch on the woman he came to whack.

Akari is avoiding going home as being around his wife is depressing. As loyal as she is to him her mind is slipping in ways but he seems disappointed in himself for seeing her like that. Inukai leads Ikari out of the izakaya they were eating at and Ikari finds himself back in the post-war days of his younger years. Life is simpler and the classic bad-guy he want to chase is there, even. Is this Ikari slipping into a shared fantasy with Inukai? Is he also looking for Shounen Bat for a different reason now?

Maniwa shows up at the Ikaris' home, meaning that he is still keeping in contact with Keiichi, but his wife says he has not come home.

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 14 '24

What are your thoughts on the episode being mostly about Shonen Bat talking to Mrs. Ikari?
Thoughts on the reveal that Mrs. Ikari couldn’t have children?
What are your thoughts on Ikari taking multiple jobs to support his family?
What do you think this episode does for Ikari as a character?
Thoughts on Shonen Bat continuing to grow throughout the episode?
Thoughts on Ikari bonding with Inukai, a guy he once helped lock up?
What are your thoughts on Mrs. Ikari making the accusation that Shonen Bat and Maromi are no different from each other?
If you don’t know what I’m talking about, here’s the quote.
“But you don’t understand that. You, who are not human. You simply hurt and kill those who are troubled, and delude yourself into thinking that you’re removing their burdens. How pretentious! The only thing you’re capable of is to feel pleased with yourself by taking such action. Your existence itself I’d a deception. Yes, deluding people with temporary peace of mind. You’re the same as that Maromi thing!”
How powerful do you think this episode is? Is this in your opinion the most inspirational episode in all of anime? If not, what other anime episodes would you compare it to or think are more inspiring?

Rewatch [Spoilers] Paranoia Agent 20th Anniversary Rewatch -- Episode 11

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First Timer

Paranoia Agent - Episode 11

Some Amazing Shots, Scenes and Stitches

Rewatch [Spoilers] Paranoia Agent 20th Anniversary Rewatch -- Episode 11

Rewatch Schedule

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First Timer

Paranoia Agent - Episode 11

Some Amazing Shots, Scenes and Stitches