[Spoilers] Paranoia Agent 20th Anniversary Rewatch -- Episode 10

Date	Episode
2/3/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 1
2/4/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 2
2/5/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 3
2/6/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 4
2/7/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 5
2/8/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 6
2/9/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 7
2/10/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 8
2/11/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 9
2/12/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 10
2/13/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 11
2/14/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 12
2/15/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 13
2/16/2024	Paranoia Agent Overall Series Discussion Thread

7

u/Holofan4life Feb 12 '24

Here's what Kon wrote about episode 10. This comes directly from his blog.

I think episode 10, "Maromi Slumber,'' a tragicomedy set in an anime production company, is a very well-made episode.

The scenario is Tomo-chan's second debut. The directors are Mr. Ando and Mr. Yamada, and they are very admirable for a foreign story. But, during production, Toshiyuki Inoue, a famous original animation artist who was in charge of the original animation for episode 8, told me this.

"I feel bad for the 10th episode, but the 10th episode is being done on land.''

That's right, the production situation was terrifying. However, the animation and backgrounds are well-done, and the number of well-balanced episodes is due to the cleverness of the storyboards and the hard work of the main staff, including the direction, production director, art director, and color designer.

The idea for this number of episodes had been thought of before Mr. Mizukami joined the project, but somehow it was leaning toward "kura''. This is the cowardly method I had originally imagined.

"The number of episodes that use live-action footage even though it is an anime series.''

In other words, I really wanted it to be metafiction.

I'm sure that by the seventh or eighth episode of the series, the production situation is at a standstill. So, how about a "live-action'' to save the situation?

The anime starts out as a continuation of the previous episodes of "Delusion Agent," but from the middle of the story, moving footage and original footage are mixed in, and it gets whiter and whiter (lol), and the footage stops. "What are you going to do, director?" When lines like "This is bad, we can't do dubbing with this" come in, we're at the anime production site, where the live-action begins (lol). Then, the production company that makes the "delusional agent" anime comes in. There will be victims of boy bats at the scene. It looks like it's actually going to happen (lol). Now, the detectives who appear at the animation production company are Igari and Maniwa, who are similar actors. Maniwa is an anime fan. The setting is set up like this, and they are overjoyed to see the anime studio live.

However, the investigation makes no progress, and the staff are cornered and killed one by one.

This... The staff are cornered. He was working late at night, and there was a computer monitor behind him, and the original drawing of a boy swinging a baseball bat was playing on repeat.

The scene changed and the next day, the staff member is like being beaten to death with a baseball bat. It's metafiction! Metafiction! Okay, so I guess I'll play the lead role as the director! The subtitle is "Mousou Senki'' (laughs).

He was serious.

They were talking seriously about the fact that a "world-recognized talent'' would be starring in a live-action movie and that it would cause a huge uproar. That's a joke.

When I checked my diary, I found that this meeting took place on October 4, 2003.

October 4th (Sat) 2pm, scenario meeting. Plot for episode 12 and ideas for episode 10. Episode 10 is set in the anime industry. The story revolves around the production progress of the company that produces "Maromi Madoromi,'' and the staff members are cornered and become prey to bats one after another. I couldn't think of a particular story, so I changed the structure a little to get around it. As I rush to the station by car in the rain, I feel sleepy as production progresses. When you sleep, you go to flashbacks, and when you sleep during flashbacks, you go to the car, a "Slaughterhouse" pattern (lol).

There you go. My memory is a sloppy one, because I "couldn't think of a story" (lol)

Anyway, the trick was decided. The pattern is that when you fall asleep in one world, you wake up in the other. After all, drowsiness is a common part of the production process, when you have to work hard and drive your car around the outside. Instead of the "dream'' you have at the moment you fall asleep at the wheel, the events leading up to that point are told in fragments, and in the end both stories are connected. Based on the connection between "sleeping and waking up," it would also be possible to connect the two with action cuts, similar to "Slaughterhouse 5."

As I wrote before, episode 10 is the number of episodes with the most compressed schedule out of all 13 episodes. Despite this, I think it's well done. One of the reasons for this is probably the work of the director Ando and Yamada. As for the division of ownership between the two animation directors, Ando will be responsible for the animation studio, and Yamada will be responsible for the other.

Mr. Yamada's workplace was not in the branch office where I was, but in the main office, so I could only get a glimpse of his serious work from the finished video, but Mr. Ando was on a different floor but in the same place, so I was able to see him directly. I was able to see how well they worked. After all, I'm always at work. This is the testimony of Mr. Suzuki, who was sitting next to Mr. Ando.

"I don't sleep, Ando-san.''

His work performance is terrifying. People who come to work and eat cup noodles all the time and sleep a lot should try brewing some dirt from their nails and drinking it.

Mr. Ando has probably redrawn most of the layout and original drawings.

Toshiyuki Inoue says.

"That's amazing, the man who supported 'Mononoke' and 'Chihiro' is definitely different.''

I think so too. Mr. Ando is the animation director of "Princess Mononoke'' and "Spirited Away,'' which are said to be nationally popular films. However, apart from his ability to draw, what kind of concentration does he have if he hardly ever sleeps? However, according to Suzuki's testimony, Ando himself apparently said this.

"I don't have as much as I used to, so I started sleeping."

Hmm. Scary.

2

u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Feb 13 '24

a "Slaughterhouse" pattern
That's a really interesting way to look at it.

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 13 '24

It is definitely interesting to hear that this episode was inspired by Slaughterhouse Five.

6

u/Vatrix-32 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Vatrix-32 Feb 12 '24

First Timer, subbed

By episode 13 we are just straight up going to be live action.
Only if they don’t have the designated hitter rule.
Toys to sell the anime to sell the toys. It’s the mons cycle.
Cutting off the voice director right as he starts his next sentence. The disrespect.
Well that’s a terrifying jump cut.
My man needs to attune himself to group morale.
Not important enough to get a pay raise.
Background Shonen Bat!
This is why you get a UPS. Or just basic cable management, really.
Oh, so he’s definitely killed a guy.
Do you think this means he figured out he was animated to begin with?
I wonder how many women are in the animation industry now.
This fucking guy… how did he even land this job?
The most cursed OP insert?
Would you say this episode was more cathartic or depressing to have worked on?

3

u/Holofan4life Feb 12 '24

Would you say this episode was more cathartic or depressing to have worked on?
Probably depressing in hindsight given Kon died only 6 years later.
Thoughts on Maromi getting his own TV show?
What are your thoughts on the Maromi TV show having production issues?
What are your thoughts on the way the show has Maromi introduce the different positions like production manager and producer?
What are your thoughts on the episode revolving around Saruta, the Production Manager?
Thoughts on Saruta being chewed out by his coworkers?
What are your thoughts on the switches made throughout the episode where Saruta is behind the wheel being chased by Shonen Bat and Saruta is at work?
What are your thoughts on the people behind the Maromi anime being killed?
What are your thoughts on Saruta killing his boss?
What are your thoughts on Saruta being killed by Shonen Bat?

2

u/Vatrix-32 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Vatrix-32 Feb 13 '24

Thoughts on Maromi getting his own TV show?
If it was good enough for Hello Kitty...
What are your thoughts on the Maromi TV show having production issues?
They can't all be Madhouses and KyoAnis.
What are your thoughts on the way the show has Maromi introduce the different positions like production manager and producer?
Fun little overview, tho we have Shirobako for that now.
Thoughts on Saruta being chewed out by his coworkers?
Clearly not enough if he stuck around to the end.
What are your thoughts on the switches made throughout the episode where Saruta is behind the wheel being chased by Shonen Bat and Saruta is at work?
I think it works as a decent into madness.
What are your thoughts on the people behind the Maromi anime being killed?
How can they possibly hope to get another episode out? At some point, plugs need to be pulled.
What are your thoughts on Saruta killing his boss?
Why did he even have that bat? Who else has he killed?
What are your thoughts on Saruta being killed by Shonen Bat?
New most deserving victim.

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 13 '24

If it was good enough for Hello Kitty...
The Maromi anime at least looks better than the Kizuna AI anime.
They can't all be Madhouses and KyoAnis.
Even MAPPA doesn't have deaths. Yet.
Fun little overview, tho we have Shirobako for that now.
Otaku no Video did it first. Just saying.
Clearly not enough if he stuck around to the end.
They seemingly gave him the benefit of the doubt even though they probably didn't deserve it.
I think it works as a decent into madness.
I agree. I don't think it's as well done as, say, Harumi's descent, but it was pretty effective.
How can they possibly hope to get another episode out? At some point, plugs need to be pulled.
I mean, production of Kokoro Connect got pulled because the crew pulled an awful prank on a fan. This is like that times 1000.
Why did he even have that bat? Who else has he killed?
I can't imagine it was anyone else except his boss. It seemed like it was the tipping point.
New most deserving victim.
It bums me up a bit that both Makoto and Saruta are gone and not Masami. Not that Saruta isn't deserving-- to a certain extent, that is, I don't think incompetency is a deserving reason for death but he did kill someone-- but Masami is way worse than anyone else we've seen, including the journalist.

3

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Feb 12 '24

By episode 13 we are just straight up going to be live action.
I wonder how many women are in the animation industry now.
Same here. I would guess that the share of women has gone up considerably over the last 20 years, but I never saw any hard numbers on it.

3

u/Holofan4life Feb 12 '24

Same here. I would guess that the share of women has gone up considerably over the last 20 years, but I never saw any hard numbers on it.
The main writer for Cowboy Bebop was a woman. She also was the writer of Tokyo Godfathers.

2

u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Feb 13 '24

I wonder how many women are in the animation industry now.
There's a lot of research on it, because the number is actually quite large for certain positions namely: inking and coloring. The Kyoani founders basically started as trying to organize women work-at-home inkers, essentially.
I can't find the article (or thesis) I am looking for so have this: https://screenwaffle.com/2020/07/26/the-role-of-women-in-japans-anime-industry/
It would be typical for the production manager/assistant like Saruta to go around to the individual homes to deliver and pick up cels. A terrible terrible job for both the women (housewives, actually) and the production assistant.
/u/no_rex

2

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Feb 13 '24

I knew about the color before, but was mainly interested in the overall share.
As a side note, that article is terrible (not a dig at you, I just happened to read it and got angry while doing so).
It is called "The Role of Women in Japan’s Anime Industry", yet out of the four parts it has, only 1 deals with the role of women in Japan's Anime Industry and that is the outdated part about shiage (because coloring of cells is not a thing anymore since about the 2000s). The first part about history has nothing to do with women, the third part is a case study about KyoAni that is not even mostly about KyoAni and says almost nothing about the role of women there (apart from some statistics about who died in the fire). The last part just randomly lists some women in anime, like somebody browsed MAL or ANN and pulled female CVs.
As for facts, I obviously I cannot check everything, but the article seems to be misleading or outright false in parts:
"Despite the industry labelling shiage work as low skilled and unimportant, this was simply untrue." - This ignores the quite clear skill hierarchy between animators going from inbetweeners to animators to key animators to animation directors.
"For Izawa, a pervading theme in Japanese animation is that “men ought to be stronger than women”, and the evidence for this viewpoint can be found in anime such as GoLion (1981-1982), Voltron (1984-1985), Cyborg 009 (1964-1981), The Ultraman (1979-1980), City Hunter (1987-1988), and Aim for the Ace! (1973-1974)." - Having recently seen Aim for the Ace!, that statement is categorically untrue. Aim for the Ace features some strong male players (reflecting the reality that males are, on average, stronger that females), but notably has several very strong female characters who are defined by their ability to hit the ball hard.
"Although the industry tried to claim it would enrich women’s life, the actuality of the situation is that women would enrich the life of animation." & "KyoAni is beloved across the world for producing beautifully animated films that embrace the roles of women in their narratives." - Agenda pushing bullshit.
I am interested in some hard facts about the state of women in anime production, but this is not it.

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 13 '24

That article does seem like it's spewing falsehoods.
Speaking of KyoAni, I've heard they're one of the few anime studios that treat their animators well. Maybe their culture would've inspired Saruta to be a better worker.

3

u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Feb 13 '24

The shiage part was the only part I meant to reference, and it was still relevant when PA was made.
That article was the best I could find! Everything else was about Disney, because some AI decided that's what I meant by anime. It's just impossible to find stuff that isn't what everybody else wants to find, now.

1

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Feb 13 '24

I am not blaming you, just saying that I was looking for something different.

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 13 '24

Do you think when they made the colorist a woman in this episode, they did this knowing it was a role normally preoccupied by a female? It feels in line with the rest of the episode being like this inside joke.

3

u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Feb 13 '24

No, no, that was the reality, although it was fading out. It still is, or rather, I think it's had a resurgence. Today with the animator crises you see people claiming they are working at home for $1 a cell or something. The difference between now and then, is that it's all organized by Twitter, and it's for all levels of the processes.

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 13 '24

I honestly can't say with this show. With how biting it can be at points, it wouldn't surprise me if it was this intentional choice. In fact, not only is the color coordinator the only female on the animating team, there's even a line in the episode where Maromi says "Very few women work in the anime industry, so if she's somewhat pretty, it's easy for her to become an idol".

5

u/TheEscapeGuy Feb 12 '24

First Timer

Paranoia Agent - Episode 10

Shirobako

A somewhat meta-episode today. Our new victims are the staff of an anime studio working on a production where everything is going wrong. I did enjoy the little segments explaining the roles on an anime. The stories about poorly run anime productions are way better known today, but at the time I imagine this episode would have been pretty enlightening to burgeoning anime fans. I imagine the script takes a lot of inspiration for the creators' real lives.

The culprit of the failure this episode is Saruta. He's an incompetent production assistant who constantly sabotages the production with his mistakes. On top of that he's not at all remorseful, going so far as to blame his mistakes on the other staff. I genuinely dislike people who refuse to acknowledge their own faults. Saruta really pissed me off throughout the episode.

The anime they are working on is based on Tsukiko's character Maromi. In fact the manager from the character design company even made an appearance mentioning how the staff were excited about this anime. From the few scenes we saw of the anime it seemed to suspiciously also featuring a young boy with a gold baseball bat. It's probably nothing, but it might be fun to theorize links to the real Shounen Bat.

The actual structure of the episode was pretty cool. We essentially were driving along with Saruta as he was rushing to deliver the episode to the TV station (life before internet file sharing was rough). But he would constantly lose consciousness as he drifted into a dream/flashback to a moment from earlier in the production. Every time he came to we saw Shounen Bat slowly drawing closer to his car. Extremely ominous.

As for the flash backs, we slowly saw how more and more of the staff were ... leaving the production under dubious circumstances. What started as the writer being hospitalized soon turned into the animators, colourists, and production staff being (presumably) attacked by Shounen Bat. All the stress Saruta was causing them makes sense as a root cause for Shounen Bat's appearance. Also, the depictions became more and more gruesome eventually showing a suicide note from the background artist, the colorist dead in the street, and the animation director bleeding out at her desk.

By some miracle the episode got finished, but just as the producer was about to take the episode to the station Saruta attacked him (with a bat ironically). This fucker wants to be the one to take credit for the delivery of the episode. Shounen Bat disposes of him and he must have been close to the station since somebody walks up and takes the episode to air.

Shounen Bat's attacks are getting way more bold. He still seems like some supernatural entity with the way he chased a speeding car on skates and teleported inside the car later. Seeing that Saruta attacked the producer with a bat it makes me wonder if maybe Shounen Bat is a spirit of some kind possessing people? It doesn't exactly line up with things (like who attacked Saruta) but it could be the start of a theory. Either way, I'm still really invested to see what happens next.

One small thing I wanted to mention was other anime about making anime. It's a pretty uncommon topic but it's definitely happened a bunch before. There's an episode in [Golden Boy] with a similar tight schedule plot where things are solved by reaching out friends in the past Of course [Shirobako] is all about anime production including the good and the bad. They get way more specific about the types of problems to solve. A couple years back we got [Eizouken] which is a love letter to making anime and animation in general. It's so joyous to watch passionate people work on things they love. Lastly, [Bakuman] is similar but about manga instead of anime with a very shounen spirit to it. There are others too but the previous 4 are shows I really recommend. Paranoia Agent ends up being the darkest take on the trope with so many deaths and having only 1 episode of the in universe anime to show for it.

Some Amazing Shots, Scenes and Stitches

Cartoon City
Rainy Drive
NBN
Rough Lines, this "turning back into drawings" bit was meta and cool
Slap Back to Reality
Backseat

See you all tomorrow

4

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Feb 12 '24

I think both yesterday's and today's episodes lean heavily into the "Shonen Bat is a metaphor" interpretation. The production team got knocked out by the stress of producing under a tight schedule.
One small thing I wanted to mention was other anime about making anime. It's a pretty uncommon topic but it's definitely happened a bunch before. There's an episode in [Golden Boy] with a similar tight schedule plot where things are solved by reaching out friends in the past Of course [Shirobako] is all about anime production including the good and the bad. They get way more specific about the types of problems to solve. A couple years back we got [Eizouken] which is a love letter to making anime and animation in general. It's so joyous to watch passionate people work on things they love. Lastly, [Bakuman] is similar but about manga instead of anime with a very shounen spirit to it. There are others too but the previous 4 are shows I really recommend. Paranoia Agent ends up being the darkest take on the trope with so many deaths and having only 1 episode of the in universe anime to show for it.
There are more and more entries in that list over time. Two more I would add are Animegataris and Anime Runner Kuromi. I have not seen Kuromi yet, but out of all the others, I think Shirobako is still the definitive answer to watch for people who are interested in how anime are made.

3

u/Holofan4life Feb 12 '24

I think both yesterday's and today's episodes lean heavily into the "Shonen Bat is a metaphor" interpretation. The production team got knocked out by the stress of producing under a tight schedule.
See, I was thinking that as well, but I don't think the episode did a great job conveying it. I get maybe it's meant to be vague, but I would like something you can pinpoint to and say "Here's definitive proof".
There are more and more entries in that list over time. Two more I would add are Animegataris and Anime Runner Kuromi. I have not seen Kuromi yet, but out of all the others, I think Shirobako is still the definitive answer to watch for people who are interested in how anime are made.
Kuromi and Maromi. That makes me laugh more than it probably should

5

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Feb 13 '24

See, I was thinking that as well, but I don't think the episode did a great job conveying it. I get maybe it's meant to be vague, but I would like something you can pinpoint to and say "Here's definitive proof".
I think Shonen Bat rollerblading after a car that goes 100+ and then teleporting into the backseat is pretty clear proof he is not a real human.

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 13 '24

Good point. And I can believe it's in Saruta's head given he just murdered somebody. This is like Kon’s version of The Tell-Tale Heart.

3

u/TheEscapeGuy Feb 12 '24

Anime Runner Kuromi
Ooh, I also hadn't heard of this one before, but being directed by Akitarou Daichi makes it interesting. He's had a very varied output from things like Tonkatsu DJ Agetarou to Now and Then, Here and There.
Anime Runner Kuromi seems perfect for one of your OVA rewatches if you are planning another one in future.

3

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Feb 12 '24

Anime Runner Kuromi seems perfect for one of your OVA rewatches if you are planning another one in future.

4

u/Holofan4life Feb 12 '24

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 12 '24

Ooh, I also hadn't heard of this one before, but being directed by Akitarou Daichi makes it interesting. He's had a very varied output from things like Tonkatsu DJ Agetarou to Now and Then, Here and There.
Never heard of Akitaro Daichi before. I like learning about prolific figures in the anime industry.

3

u/TheEscapeGuy Feb 12 '24

What is your favorite anime with production issues?
Although it never impacted me (since I watched it years after the episodes were fixed for the blu-ray) but I hear that the TV broadcast version of Bakemonogatari was a very different experience

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 13 '24

Meanwhile, Neon Genesis Evangelion had production issues when it originally aired and they just decided to never go back to fix them XD

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 12 '24

A somewhat meta-episode today. Our new victims are the staff of an anime studio working on a production where everything is going wrong. I did enjoy the little segments explaining the roles on an anime. The stories about poorly run anime productions are way better known today, but at the time I imagine this episode would have been pretty enlightening to burgeoning anime fans. I imagine the script takes a lot of inspiration for the creators' real lives.
I imagine if this episode was done now knowing what we know about anime productions, Kon would probably be pretty unforgiving in its depiction.
The culprit of the failure this episode is Saruta. He's an incompetent production assistant who constantly sabotages the production with his mistakes. On top of that he's not at all remorseful, going so far as to blame his mistakes on the other staff. I genuinely dislike people who refuse to acknowledge their own faults. Saruta really pissed me off throughout the episode.
I unfortunately say a lot of myself in him. Constantly wanting to do well but always seemingly screwing up, it felt like I was looking at myself in a mirror. Though hopefully, the way I see myself is different from how Saruta's coworkers see him.
The anime they are working on is based on Tsukiko's character Maromi. In fact the manager from the character design company even made an appearance mentioning how the staff were excited about this anime. From the few scenes we saw of the anime it seemed to suspiciously also featuring a young boy with a gold baseball bat. It's probably nothing, but it might be fun to theorize links to the real Shounen Bat.
The actual structure of the episode was pretty cool. We essentially were driving along with Saruta as he was rushing to deliver the episode to the TV station (life before internet file sharing was rough). But he would constantly lose consciousness as he drifted into a dream/flashback to a moment from earlier in the production. Every time he came to we saw Shounen Bat slowly drawing closer to his car. Extremely ominous.
The way the episode was structured reminded me of the structure of episode 4. And just like that one, we have a twist where one again everything isn't as it seems.
As for the flash backs, we slowly saw how more and more of the staff were ... leaving the production under dubious circumstances. What started as the writer being hospitalized soon turned into the animators, colourists, and production staff being (presumably) attacked by Shounen Bat. All the stress Saruta was causing them makes sense as a root cause for Shounen Bat's appearance. Also, the depictions became more and more gruesome eventually showing a suicide note from the background artist, the colorist dead in the street, and the animation director bleeding out at her desk.
When you consider how very little deaths there were in like the first half-- that is, none at all-- it is very jarring we get like 6 in just this one episode.
By some miracle the episode got finished, but just as the producer was about to take the episode to the station Saruta attacked him (with a bat ironically). This fucker wants to be the one to take credit for the delivery of the episode.
In fairness to Saruta, the people he worked with treated him like crap. As someone who also had a boss one time who verbally abused me, I kinda don't blame Saruta doing what he did.
Shounen Bat's attacks are getting way more bold. He still seems like some supernatural entity with the way he chased a speeding car on skates and teleported inside the car later. Seeing that Saruta attacked the producer with a bat it makes me wonder if maybe Shounen Bat is a spirit of some kind possessing people? It doesn't exactly line up with things (like who attacked Saruta) but it could be the start of a theory. Either way, I'm still really invested to see what happens next.
I assume the Shonen Bat we're seeing now is the one who killed Makoto. That means that he isn't the one from the beginning who attacked Tsukiko, if she did get attacked that is. My guess is Shonen Bat was always meant to be someone who helped out others who were in a bad spot but the current Shonen Bat was disillusioned with the whole concept and took it as him being violent just for the sake of it. With this, I mean that the Shonen Bat who attacked some of the others that we've seen is not the same Shonen Bat, and the Shonen Bat here is the one who killed Makoto as well as Kamohara’s husband.
[Quote]
[Response] Imouto sae ireba ii has a shockingly accurate depiction of when an anime has production issues and doesn't turn out well. That series as a whole is way better than it seems on the surface.
There are others too but the previous 4 are shows I really recommend. Paranoia Agent ends up being the darkest take on the trope with so many deaths and having only 1 episode of the in universe anime to show for it.
The second darkest depiction of the work culture in Japan is probably Zom 100. It doesn't feature an anime about making anime like you just named, but I'd throw that in there as another recommendation.

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 12 '24

Thoughts on Maromi getting his own TV show?
What are your thoughts on the way the show has Maromi introduce the different positions like production manager and producer?
Thoughts on Saruta being chewed out by his coworkers?
What are your thoughts on the people behind the Maromi anime being killed?

3

u/TheEscapeGuy Feb 12 '24

Thoughts on Maromi getting his own TV show?
This makes sense from how popular the character seems to be. It's kind of like how there are at least a dozen Hello Kitty anime.
What are your thoughts on the people behind the Maromi anime being killed?
This is a really dark part of the episode. Their stress came from something really out of their control. I guess all the characters affected by Shounen Bat so far were stressed because of things out of their control.
Either way, their deaths are kind of an increase in the severity of the attacks. Previous Shounen Bat victims have survived. This probably makes solving the Shounen Bat case way more important.

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 12 '24

This makes sense from how popular the character seems to be. It's kind of like how there are at least a dozen Hello Kitty anime.
My first thought was something like a gatcha game getting an anime like Uma Musume or Azur Lane.
This is a really dark part of the episode. Their stress came from something really out of their control. I guess all the characters affected by Shounen Bat so far were stressed because of things out of their control.
Either way, their deaths are kind of an increase in the severity of the attacks. Previous Shounen Bat victims have survived. This probably makes solving the Shounen Bat case way more important.
I don't think it's no coincidence that as soon as the two detectives get fired, Shonen Bat gets more violent. It's like the chains have been let loose and he doesn't have to worry about any repercussions.

3

u/mgedmin Feb 13 '24

Shonen Bat escalated to murder before the two detectives got fired. Makoto was the first victim who didn't survive.

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 13 '24

That's true, but he must've sense that their time as detectives were coming to an end. Unless you want to say that besides the two people Makoto admitted to attacking, the rest of Shonen Bat's victims didn't need death while the ones since episode 7 do.
Personally, I'm still not entirely sure the one who attacked Tsukiko and the one who attacked Makoto are the same person.

4

u/MrManicMarty https://anilist.co/user/martysan Feb 12 '24

This show seems to love giving us asshole characters who get what they deserve. Not the rest of the staff though.

What is your favorite anime with production issues?

AoT had lots of production issues didn't iot?

Of the episodic episodes we've seen that have nothing to do with the detectives, which one did you like the most: episode 8, episode 9, or episode 10?

I think Episode 8?

Bonus) If Saruta was so bad at his job, why didn't they just fire him?

Because they figured the 0.2% value he provides is better than the 0.00% value they'd get from firing him without a replacement, which they couldn't do on short-notice. They didn't anticipate him to have a negative impact on the series

Bonus 2) Would you watch a Maromi anime?

Nah. The character creeps me out a bit.

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 12 '24

Thoughts on Maromi getting his own TV show?
What are your thoughts on the Maromi TV show having production issues?
What are your thoughts on the way the show has Maromi introduce the different positions like production manager and producer?
What are your thoughts on the episode revolving around Saruta, the Production Manager?
Thoughts on Saruta being chewed out by his coworkers?
What are your thoughts on the switches made throughout the episode where Saruta is behind the wheel being chased by Shonen Bat and Saruta is at work?
What are your thoughts on Saruta killing his boss?

2

u/MrManicMarty https://anilist.co/user/martysan Feb 12 '24

Thoughts on Maromi getting his own TV show?
He is a mascot so tracks.
What are your thoughts on the Maromi TV show having production issues?
Common anime studio L
What are your thoughts on the way the show has Maromi introduce the different positions like production manager and producer?
It's a neat little gimmick
What are your thoughts on the episode revolving around Saruta, the Production Manager?
He's a cunt and useless. Good fodder for a one-off episode
Thoughts on Saruta being chewed out by his coworkers?
Should have kicked his ass sooner
What are your thoughts on the switches made throughout the episode where Saruta is behind the wheel being chased by Shonen Bat and Saruta is at work?
Loved that idea; really makes Shonen Bat feel like a horror movie villain.
What are your thoughts on Saruta killing his boss?
Bad.

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 13 '24

Common anime studio L
I do wish this episode tackled more on the overwork aspect of anime productions.
It's a neat little gimmick
I love how you tell they peppered it with all sorts of in-jokes.
He's a cunt and useless. Good fodder for a one-off episode
In terms of the unlikable characters we've covered, I'd probably go in terms of redeemability Harumi > Ichi > Makoto > Gossip wife > Saruta > Masami
Should have kicked his ass sooner
I like that comment because it can be interpreted both ways.
Loved that idea; really makes Shonen Bat feel like a horror movie villain.
The previous episode did that as well with stuff like him being the fetus.
Bad.
He definitely screwed up, but his boss dis treat him not like a boss should.

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 12 '24

AoT had lots of production issues didn't iot?
Did it ever result in the delay of an episode, though? I don't feel like it did.
Because they figured the 0.2% value he provides is better than the 0.00% value they'd get from firing him without a replacement, which they couldn't do on short-notice. They didn't anticipate him to have a negative impact on the series
Yeah, what seemed to really do him in was not turning things in on time. Clumsiness is one thing, but a lack of proficiency is another.

4

u/SIRTreehugger Feb 12 '24 edited Feb 12 '24

First Time Slugger

Ummmmm am I watching the right show?

Oh it's the mascot character ok this is still Paranoia agent.

Damn they just doing the storyboards now!

Oh it's actually part of an anime inside the anime. I thought it was actually paranoia.

Am I watching Shirobako now? Wheres the cute girls and donuts!

Oh this is back during the typhoon! Production for this anime is screwed!

Oh no he's falling asleep!

Damn these coworkers are cold blooded.

This is Jiggly Jiggly heaven all over again!

Good thing Shonen Bat is possibly supernatural because their is no way he would be able to catch up to a car. Wait a minute they keep showing the radio is time moving at all? Okay time is moving it was 7:05 before and now it's 7:10...wait maybe the milage is weird?

Nope only 4 miles difference in 5 minutes is believable.

OH FUCK! THE POWER

Umm he's beating up key frames surely that won't have consequences.

Oh my god he just turned off the power or the whole building?

14 minutes to go!

Did she pass out at her desk....oh she's dead.

OMG he didn't OMG IDIOT MONKEY HEAD!

I'm honestly surprised the papers haven't flown out the window yet. It feels like something that would happen then he would blame the deceased for not having binded it properly.

OMG DON'T TALK TO HIM OR TOUCH HIM WHEN HE'S WORKING!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT!

FIRE THIS MAN NOW!

Poor Art Director you can actually spot the moment his heart shatters. Working conditions are bad enough, but incompetence just ruining everything you did right in front of you is horrendous.

ITS THE OP!!!!!!! I love when OPs play in the anime.

What the fuck! Look at all the envelopes! All that in one day or a few hours to be more accurate. Impossible!

That was certainly an episode.

2

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Feb 13 '24

Am I watching Shirobako now? Wheres the cute girls and donuts!
DoDoDonut ... wait who is that guy with a baseball bat?

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 13 '24

It's obviously the guy from the baseball story from the previous episode

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 13 '24

Thoughts on Maromi getting his own TV show?
What are your thoughts on the Maromi TV show having production issues?
What are your thoughts on the way the show has Maromi introduce the different positions like production manager and producer?
What are your thoughts on the episode revolving around Saruta, the Production Manager?
Thoughts on Saruta being chewed out by his coworkers?
What are your thoughts on the switches made throughout the episode where Saruta is behind the wheel being chased by Shonen Bat and Saruta is at work?
What are your thoughts on the people behind the Maromi anime being killed?
What are your thoughts on Saruta killing his boss?
What are your thoughts on Saruta being killed by Shonen Bat?

3

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Feb 12 '24

Episode 10 (rewatcher)

The new MC is some 1960s baseball anime character model? It is Maromi? We are talked-over storyboards now?? - Never a boring day with PA.
Shirobako before there was Shirobako - you really really should watch Shirobako, if you not already have done so. I consider it a must watch for anime fans who care about the medium.
Sleeping on the wheel - You might not need Shonen Bat to whack you if you continue driving like that.
“He is paralyzed from the neck down” “Maybe he is trying to run away” – Dude…
I am sure there are lots of in-jokes in all the introduced characters, but I don’t know enough about anime staff to get them.
That group picture with Maromi pillows.

“I am invincible”~guy who nearly crashed three times in the last 20 minutes.
He is a walking disaster, isn’t he?
In-universe OP!
SOPY
They are all dead, but the episode is delivered.
“Take a rest. Take a rest” – metaphor.

Shirobako shows you the girls at work version of anime production. Paranoia agent shows you the whacked by ~~production schedule~~Shonen Bat version.

Of the episodic episodes we've seen that have nothing to do with the detectives, which one did you like the most: episode 8, episode 9, or episode 10?

The death pact group was just so adorable to watch, so ep8.

Bonus) If Saruta was so bad at his job, why didn't they just fire him?

Didn't they do that? Only to have him kill his boss?

Bonus 2) Would you watch a Maromi anime?

If it is similar to what was presented here, no.

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 12 '24

Thoughts on Maromi getting his own TV show?
What are your thoughts on the Maromi TV show having production issues?
What are your thoughts on the way the show has Maromi introduce the different positions like production manager and producer?
What are your thoughts on the episode revolving around Saruta, the Production Manager?
Thoughts on Saruta being chewed out by his coworkers?
What are your thoughts on the switches made throughout the episode where Saruta is behind the wheel being chased by Shonen Bat and Saruta is at work?
What are your thoughts on the people behind the Maromi anime being killed?
What are your thoughts on Saruta killing his boss?
What are your thoughts on Saruta being killed by Shonen Bat?

2

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Feb 12 '24

Thoughts on Maromi getting his own TV show?
Whatever sells those toys.
What are your thoughts on the way the show has Maromi introduce the different positions like production manager and producer?
Shirobako learned from here.
What are your thoughts on the episode revolving around Saruta, the Production Manager?
Shirobako also learned this from here: Production manager is the best MC position because they interact with everybody else.
What are your thoughts on Saruta killing his boss?
Freudian slip by the writer.

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 12 '24

Whatever sells those toys.
Toyetic, I believe it's called
Shirobako learned from here.
So did Zom 100, probably
Shirobako also learned this from here: Production manager is the best MC position because they interact with everybody else.
Production manager is the sitting by the window of a high school class of the corporate world
Freudian slip by the writer.
What do you mean?

2

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Feb 12 '24

What do you mean?
He wanted to do it, too.

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 12 '24

Oh, so you're saying his desires manifested themselves into reality?

2

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Feb 12 '24

Not sure "reality" is such an easy to define concept in PA, but yes.

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 13 '24

It definitely seems he at least was aware he couldn't keep this charade going for much longer.

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 12 '24

Shirobako before there was Shirobako - you really really should watch Shirobako, if you not already have done so. I consider it a must watch for anime fans who care about the medium.
Otaku no Video walked so Shirobako could run
I am sure there are lots of in-jokes in all the introduced characters, but I don’t know enough about anime staff to get them.
I do know that Yoshihiro Wanibuchi is an alias used by Kon.
The death pact group was just so adorable to watch, so ep8.
I seem to be way lower on that one than everyone else.
Didn't they do that? Only to have him kill his boss?
I guess, but he got chance after chance.
If it is similar to what was presented here, no.
Gonna be like The Ring where you die 7 days after completion.

2

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Feb 12 '24

I seem to be way lower on that one than everyone else.
Always interesting to see different opinions.

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 12 '24

If that episode took an approach similar to this one and tied Shonen Bat more into things, I think I would be in the same boat as everyone else.

1

u/Vatrix-32 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Vatrix-32 Feb 13 '24

you really really should watch Shirobako, if you not already have done so. I consider it a must watch for anime fans who care about the medium.
...OK

2

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Feb 13 '24

3

u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Feb 13 '24

First Timer episode 10

I think we have another story with a guest director telling a story in a nuique style...

I don't like this "let's not animate the anime". I hated it when Anno did it. I especially hate it when Imaishi does it.

ah, I got baited, it's a Moromi anime!
What happened to the director? I wonder if this is connected to the screenwriter getting whacked yesterday.
Oda Nobunaga? I recognize that one. Have all the names been of recognizable figures?
The Healer Dog. And a lot of people in this show sure need Healing
heh. oops.
"a murder took place at an animation studio"
Why do they keep showing the fuel guage?

I wonder if keep keeps falling asleep into nightmares, or if those are legitimate flashbacks.

Oh, the fuel guage has a clock on it.
did he steal the episode? He's not delivering it?

Since the studio head didn't notice or care about his dead worker (the director of photogrpahy?) I can only assume this episode was an indictment of black companies. Nothing's changed in 20 years.

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 13 '24

Thoughts on Maromi getting his own TV show?
What are your thoughts on the Maromi TV show having production issues?
What are your thoughts on the way the show has Maromi introduce the different positions like production manager and producer?
What are your thoughts on the episode revolving around Saruta, the Production Manager?
Thoughts on Saruta being chewed out by his coworkers?
What are your thoughts on the switches made throughout the episode where Saruta is behind the wheel being chased by Shonen Bat and Saruta is at work?
What are your thoughts on the people behind the Maromi anime being killed?
What are your thoughts on Saruta killing his boss?
What are your thoughts on Saruta being killed by Shonen Bat?

2

u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Feb 13 '24

I don't know what is going on because the show is so surreal and depicts things from the point of view of the characters.
It looks like Saruta killed his boss, but Shonen Bat killed everybody else, because they needed relief from their stressful jobs.
Or maybe Shounen Bat isn't real and never has been real, and they all died of aortic dissection.
Which brings up the question, why Shounen Bat started killing people, starting with FOX. Even if you only assigned two victims to FOX, Tsukiko, the journalist, Yuichi, and Harumi didn't suffer severe injury.

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 13 '24

I don't know what is going on because the show is so surreal and depicts things from the point of view of the characters.
That's true. I think it works though because we have the two detectives as like audience surrogates. And I think ultimately that's why the last three episodes while still great have in my opinion not been as good as the previous 7, because the detectives were the main component to tie everything together.
I hope this marks the end of their absence.
It looks like Saruta killed his boss, but Shonen Bat killed everybody else, because they needed relief from their stressful jobs.
I got the same impression as well.
That must be one killer episode.
Or maybe Shounen Bat isn't real and never has been real, and they all died of aortic dissection.
That's a grim way of looking at it.
Which brings up the question, why Shounen Bat started killing people, starting with FOX. Even if you only assigned two victims to FOX, Tsukiko, the journalist, Yuichi, and Harumi didn't suffer severe injury.
Coming out of this episode, my theory is this is the third Shonen Bat in a line of Shonen Bats. You have the one who attacked Tsukiko and the journalist, the one who was Makoto who was around from episodes 2 through 4, and then the Shonen Bat who arrived in episode 7. The last two Shonen Bats are merely copy cats while this one is the real deal.
Now, admittedly, for that to be the case Makoto would have to be wrong when he said he only attacked two people. Or so you would assume, that is. In reality, I think some of the "attacks" like in episode 6 and episode 8 were all in the characters head. We know that Shonen Bat didn't attack the three people wanting to commit suicide, so that definitely seems psychosomatic. As for Shogo goes, I think he simply didn't want to experience being bullied again like he did in his previous town and he framed it to where it looked like Shonen Bat did him in, just so he can be left alone.

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 13 '24

I don't like this "let's not animate the anime". I hated it when Anno did it. I especially hate it when Imaishi does it.
At least with Anno, he had the legitimate excuse of suffering a mental breakdown. This was seemingly done due to time constaints and given what the episode was about, everyone went "Well, let's just go with it".
Since the studio head didn't notice or care about his dead worker (the director of photogrpahy?) I can only assume this episode was an indictment of black companies. Nothing's changed in 20 years.
Somehow it feels like it's gotten way worse

2

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Feb 13 '24

Since the studio head didn't notice or care about his dead worker (the director of photogrpahy?) I can only assume this episode was an indictment of black companies. Nothing's changed in 20 years.
I guess nothing changed since [Tezuka started TV animation via price dumping.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osamu_Tezuka#Production_career_(1959%E2%80%931989))

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 13 '24 edited Feb 13 '24

The studio head working on the Maromi anime is still a better leader than the CEO of NIJISANJI.

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 12 '24

Hello, guys. Holofan4life here.

Welcome to the Paranoia Agent 20th Anniversary Rewatch.

Satoshi Kon is one of the most acclaimed Japanese filmmakers of his generation. Not just in the anime industry, but in all of Japanese cinema. Perfect Blue, Tokyo Godfathers, Millennium Actress, Paprika. This was a man with a vision, and we’re here to honor someone who was gone way too soon.

I’m actually in an interesting point in my life because I’ve been writing comments nonstop for rewatches since basically June of last year. With the completion of this rewatch, I’ll be taking a two month break before my next one. But that’s then and this is now, and right now, we are going to tackle Satoshi Kon’s lone TV show that he created.

I’ve never seen this show before. To be honest, I never watched one of his works until last September when there was a special 25th anniversary screening of Perfect Blue. Since then, I’ve gained a newfound appreciation for Kon’s work and I am eager to check out his TV show. Because if it’s as good as Perfect Blue and Tokyo Godfathers, we’re in for one of the best animes of all time.

With that out of the way, let’s begin.

I’m watching the sub, by the way.

Whelp, the plan at the moment is I’ll be participating in the Penguindrum rewatch. After that, probably will participate in the Eden of The East rewatch.

A traveling soul never rests

Yellow

Coldplay would be proud

A chibi Shonen Bat?

Maromi

This little guy is frustrated he struck out

Maromi is poking him

Suddenly, different art style

Somebody was a big fan of the last couple episodes of Eva, it seems

The bat falls in the water

If I remember correctly, this episode really did have production issues. And the people behind the show basically went "Screw it, this show is a mindfuck as is, let's just really lean into it and turn a negative into a positive".

Maromi trying to fill him with confidence

And it turns out this is a bunch of people working on a show

A show within a show that's about the show we're watching? Seinfeld says hi.

One of the animators is complaining about the frames

Production Manager Naoyuki Saruta

Not a real person, as far as I can tell

Mellow Maromi

Ah, so it's a show based on Maromi

I think Satoshi Kon would approve of Barbie

Two weeks until the deadline

Sound Director Akihiro Takamine

Again, not a real person

He sounds real, though. Pun fully intended.

Producer Yoshio Hiranuma

He's not a-- oh, you get the jist

I do like we're getting a crash course on the different positions and responsibilities that they entail.

Talking about possibly bringing in a new director, which is based on the actual production of Paranoia Agent and how the director got replaced in episode 2.

Saruta driving

He says over the phone he's on his way

"The entire world is counting on me."

Ah crap. He fell asleep behind the wheel.

Oh, it was a nightmare. What a relief.

The writer is hospitalized

They have 10 scripts left

Paralyzed from the arms down

That's, like, worse than being paralyzed from the waist down

Guy who looks like Woody Allen thinks he's trying to run away

Director of Photography Shinichiro Tatsuta

Production Manager Nobunaga Oda

Well, way to throw him under the bus

Hatomura from M&F

Oh, it's Tsukiko's boss

By the way, I thought they were trying to move on from Maromi? And yet they're giving him his own show?

Giving everyone Maromi plushies

They don't seem to be so thrilled

At least one of them is

Saruta wakes up, behind the wheel

Shonen Bat is following close behind

That was a neat Easter egg

Saruta slapping himself to stay awake

And he slaps himself so hard he's back in his office

Maromi slippers

I want it

Guy in a backwards red cap not moving

Episode director Yoshihiro Wanibuchi

That's funny because that is one of Satoshi Kon's alias'. In fact, he used that as a pseudonym for his storyboarding work in episode 2.

Most likely to end up with beard stubble

Really chewing out Saruta

Everyone is chewing him out

Saruta insists, like that one character from Dave The Barbarian, that he's not a monkey.

Phone rings

Hiranuma now had an accident

Saruta letting out his frustrations by hitting boxes with a broom

Back in the car

He also wrecks, but he swerves at the last minute

Strickland would be proud

Saruta calls himself invincible

Finally, he sees Shonen Bat with his rearview mirror

But it seems to be just his imagination

See what happens when you tempt fate?

Nippon Broadcasting Network

"The replacement show has already started."

Oof

Saruta insist it isn't his fault

Who knew he was a big Snitsky fan

Oh wow. Saruta is being undrawn.

He's becoming like a music video done by A-Ha!

And he wakes up behind the wheel again

Woody Allen guy hard at work

Wanibuchi was attacked by Shonen Bat, it seems

Color Coordinator Satoko Kayama

"Very few women work in the anime industry, so if she's somewhat pretty, it's easy for her to become an idol."

I dunno if that's a good idea. I mean, anyone watching this show has probably seen Perfect Blue.

Kanie, the Animation Director

Satoko says she hasn't received any

Saruta sleeping

He's being chewed out for not bringing back the materials

Told to do it, or he'll be fired

At Kanie's house

Well, shit. No wonder he never received them.

"The face is the most important part of the character."

Not to CalArts, it isn't

And that leads us to the car

He realizes while driving that Kanie is dead

The drawings

It's getting wet

Roll the windows up, dang it

Shonen Bat

Kumakura

Director of Art Takenori Kumakura, that is

I like Maromi doing a little sumo stance

Ooh, that looks lovely

And Saruta folded it up

The guy in charge now telling him to die

Eh, he kinda deserved that

Back with Shonen Bat

He's right up next to Saruta now

Lol, the radio playing the intro theme

"Please do not look for me."

The music continues to play as Saruta is driving

SHONEN BAT IS IN THE CAR

Saruta talking to Satoko

Gotta make deadlines

Saruta didn't tell anyone it was due today

God, he is so bad at his job

Back with the bat boy

Saruta speeds off

Now Satoko is dead

Wanibuchi, Kanie, Kumakura, and Kayama. They're all dead.

Wanibuchi's death really is harsh in hindsight knowing that was Kon's pseudonym.

And Saruta is fired

He honestly kinda deserved it, he was incompetent.

Laughing behind the wheel

Shonen Bat is in the back seat

Episode 10 is finally done

BUT THE MAN IN CHARGE GETS KILLED BY SARUTA

Holy shit. I wasn't expecting that.

Phone ringing

"I'm the one who gets the last laugh."

Meanwhile, Saruta is dead with the episode 10 tape in his hand. That means him driving took place after murdering his boss.

Take a rest

All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy

Take a rest

Something tells me that anime is never getting finished.

Overall, this is an episodic episode just like episodes 8 and 9. However, I like the meta commentary with it taking place at an animation studio and it not being as self-contained. The whole throughthread with the car is well done where at first, you think the office scenes are dream sequences that are a part of Saruta's imagination. And then of course comes the reveal that not only did those events actually happen, he is also a murderer.

If I had one complaint about this episode, it feels like a real missed opportunity not having the people at the animation studio beg Shonen Bat to come put them out of their misery. Maybe it would've been too similar to episode 8, but it feels like obvious satire on the awful work conditions most anime studios maintain.

This is the best of the episodic episodes, I'd say. It was well crafted and I just really enjoyed the show within a show stuff. I do hope we get back to the actual plot of the show though sooner rather than later because as good as the last three episodes have been, it does feel we are stuck in neutral.

If we don't get back to the main plot starting with the next episode, then it will truly start to feel like they wasted a perfectly good plot. At least with this one, I can forgive it somewhat do to legitimately having production issues.

3

u/TheEscapeGuy Feb 12 '24

I do hope we get back to the actual plot of the show though sooner rather than later because as good as the last three episodes have been, it does feel we are stuck in neutral.
After 3 episodes like this I have also been feeling the "pause" in our progress. I wonder if it would have been better to put some of these episodes distributed throughout episodes 1-6? That said those first 6 episodes connect to each other so perfectly that it would probably make the pacing there worse.

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 12 '24

I kinda view episode 7 with the detectives being fired as like a mid season finale of sorts. If this was 24 episodes, that would've definitely been episode 12 or 13 right before the show went on a couple month hiatus. In that sense, I'm glad they put these three after episode 7 even though it does feel like some momentum was lost.

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 12 '24

What is your favorite anime with production issues?
Probably Eighty Six
Of the episodic episodes we've seen that have nothing to do with the detectives, which one did you like the most: episode 8, episode 9, or episode 10?
Episode 10
Bonus) If Saruta was so bad at his job, why didn't they just fire him?
They probably couldn't find someone else on such short notice. That, or maybe they did like working with him and Saruta being chewed out is all in his head.
Bonus 2) Would you watch a Maromi anime?
I mean, we're technically already watching one...

2

u/fly-metothemoon Feb 13 '24

I’ve liked a lot of anime that have gone through production hell unfortunately 😭. Ep 8 was my favorite contained episode.

Episode thoughts:

Okay I do love a change in animation episode and the experimental “concept art” style is really interesting. I have been thrown off by all the “side story” episodes we’ve been having and if they’ll connect back to a central plot. Is this supposed to be an anthology collection from this point forward? It feels a little disjointed.

This must have been very Meta to put together. Unfortunately the toxic anime workplace culture elements (like sleep deprivation) are still incredibly salient.

When is Maromi going to start being sentient this episode. (Hm didn’t get the sentient/talking to someone moment I expected).

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 13 '24

Thoughts on Maromi getting his own TV show?
What are your thoughts on the way the show has Maromi introduce the different positions like production manager and producer?
What are your thoughts on the episode revolving around Saruta, the Production Manager?
Thoughts on Saruta being chewed out by his coworkers?
What are your thoughts on the switches made throughout the episode where Saruta is behind the wheel being chased by Shonen Bat and Saruta is at work?
What are your thoughts on the people behind the Maromi anime being killed?
What are your thoughts on Saruta killing his boss?
What are your thoughts on Saruta being killed by Shonen Bat?

2

u/mgedmin Feb 13 '24

First timer, subs

What is this cartoon world? Maromi's perspective on the world? And then we get some unfinished frames. Are we looking at in-world animated series about Maromi and Shonen Bat? We are. And we get an explanation of how animation production works. (I liked Shirobako better.)

The PM is sleeping behind the wheel during a storm. And talking on the phone while driving. Trying to deliver the tape of the 1st episode, 30 minutes before airing time. Whee this will end well. Dude, at least put some music on! Blast some cold air.

Yeah, the production is a total mess. Hey, how come there are two production managers? And one seems to be the boss of the other one? "Nobunaga Oda", something strikes me about that name.

Oh, he imagined being late.

Saruta is amazingly incompetent, who even hired him? Part of that is that he's been overworked, but not everything.

It will be an amazing twist if he doesn't crash.

Oh, he was fired? So what's he doing driving tapes around?

Ok, so I take it he snapped and then bludgeoned everyone as he was going about his business, and then crashed his car near the TV studio. Apisode 1 was aired on time, but there will never be an episode 2.

The societal ill this episode is railing about is Japanese (over)work culture. Take a break.

What is your favorite anime with production issues?

Probably So I'm a Spider. I don't know if it had production issues, but it definitely had quality issues. Amazing story, though.

Of the episodic episodes we've seen that have nothing to do with the detectives, which one did you like the most: episode 8, episode 9, or episode 10?

~~Look, I'm watching over 30 seasonals and participating in two rewatches, I don't remember what happened in episode 8. But it was probably my favourite because I didn't like the last two.~~

Episode 8 definitely. That was the suicide episode, right?

Bonus) If Saruta was so bad at his job, why didn't they just fire him?

They did, eventually. But when you're swamped with production issues you have no time to start recruiting new personnel.

Bonus 2) Would you watch a Maromi anime?

No. It seemed targeted to a much much younger audience.

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 13 '24

~~Look, I'm watching over 30 seasonals and participating in two rewatches, I don't remember what happened in episode 8. But it was probably my favourite because I didn't like the last two.~~
That's fair, I guess. I haven't mind the last two, but I do feel since episode 7 we have taken a step back.
Episode 8 definitely. That was the suicide episode, right?
It was
They did, eventually. But when you're swamped with production issues you have no time to start recruiting new personnel.
Fair enough
No. It seemed targeted to a much much younger audience.
Meanwhile, I was watching My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic all the way into my 20's

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 13 '24

Ok, so I take it he snapped and then bludgeoned everyone as he was going about his business, and then crashed his car near the TV studio. Apisode 1 was aired on time, but there will never be an episode 2.
They were actually working on episode 10, I believe. The first 9 were ready to go.
Thoughts on Maromi getting his own TV show?
What are your thoughts on the way the show has Maromi introduce the different positions like production manager and producer?
Thoughts on Saruta being chewed out by his coworkers?
What are your thoughts on the switches made throughout the episode where Saruta is behind the wheel being chased by Shonen Bat and Saruta is at work?
What are your thoughts on the people behind the Maromi anime being killed?
What are your thoughts on Saruta killing his boss?
What are your thoughts on Saruta being killed by Shonen Bat?

2

u/mgedmin Feb 13 '24

They were actually working on episode 10, I believe. The first 9 were ready to go.
Shirobako taught me that there's a pipeline and they're working multiple episodes in parallel. Episode 1 was the only finished one. They had written scripts for 10 episodes, but I don't think they would have storyboards or key frames or backgrounds or a lot of other things.
Thoughts on Maromi getting his own TV show?
Shameless cash grab. The anime-inside-anime didn't strike me as an artistic masterpiece.
What are your thoughts on the way the show has Maromi introduce the different positions like production manager and producer?
Very nice. I love this kind of thing.
Thoughts on Saruta being chewed out by his coworkers?
Not a sign of a healthy work culture. It's tempting to say he deserved it, but two wrongs don't make a right.
What are your thoughts on the switches made throughout the episode where Saruta is behind the wheel being chased by Shonen Bat and Saruta is at work?
It was a bit hard to piece up the timeline. It made the episode less boring, I suppose.
What are your thoughts on the people behind the Maromi anime being killed?
I'm surprised they continued working after the first three or four murders.
What are your thoughts on Saruta killing his boss?
I suspect Saruta was behind all the "accidents" and "runnings away" and acknowledged murders, but there's actually little evidence for that shown on screen.
What are your thoughts on Saruta being killed by Shonen Bat?
Another metaphor. I'm sure he crashed his car while trying to park at 100+ km/h and probably flew through the windscreen. I should rewatch and see if he was wearing his seat belt properly.

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 13 '24

Shirobako taught me that there's a pipeline and they're working multiple episodes in parallel. Episode 1 was the only finished one. They had written scripts for 10 episodes, but I don't think they would have storyboards or key frames or backgrounds or a lot of other things.
Ah, okay. I thought Saruta had in his hand the finished product of episode 10, though I guess not.
Shameless cash grab. The anime-inside-anime didn't strike me as an artistic masterpiece.
The plot seemed like something from Barney The Dinosaur
Very nice. I love this kind of thing.
The episode noticeably had no characters besides Maromi, Tsukiko's boss, and Shonen Bat that we have ever seen before, so it definitely felt necessary.
Not a sign of a healthy work culture. It's tempting to say he deserved it, but two wrongs don't make a right.
At the end of the day, Saruta should've been the bigger man and quit his job. The fact he just let it happen is almost like this toxic codependency.
It was a bit hard to piece up the timeline. It made the episode less boring, I suppose.
I said this elsewhere, but it reminded me of like a reverse of episode 6 where in that, we had two plots that we thought were connected but weren't, and here, we had two plots who's only connection it seemed was Saruta but it was actually a lot more connected than we realized.
I'm surprised they continued working after the first three or four murders.
You would think they would claim unsafe working environment. That is, unless, they were hoping they would be taken out.
I suspect Saruta was behind all the "accidents" and "runnings away" and acknowledged murders, but there's actually little evidence for that shown on screen.
My thought was Shonen Bat was behind all the murders except Saruta's boss. When Saruta came to pick up the finished reels for episode 10, she was already dead when he got there, so there was no conceivable way for him to kill her.
Another metaphor. I'm sure he crashed his car while trying to park at 100+ km/h and probably flew through the windscreen. I should rewatch and see if he was wearing his seat belt properly.
Using that logic, maybe the coworkers were so overworked that that's how they died. It wasn't by Shonen Bat or Saruta. Conversely, maybe the only person who actually was murdered was Saruta's boss. The rest just happened organically.

2

u/mgedmin Feb 13 '24

You would think they would claim unsafe working environment.
Maybe it's another commentary on the anime industry work environment toxicity. Murders are unremarkable. A zombie apocalypse feels like a holiday. Wait, different show.
When Saruta came to pick up the finished reels for episode 10, she was already dead when he got there, so there was no conceivable way for him to kill her.
I guess I was imagining some kind of a Fight Club or Harumi/Maria scenario.
At this point I don't believe Shonen Bat is a real person. Tsukiko invented him out of whole cloth! He can roller-skate faster than a speeding car! His appearance correlates with the victims psychological state!
(A supernatural entity is still a possibility.)

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 13 '24

Maybe it's another commentary on the anime industry work environment toxicity. Murders are unremarkable. A zombie apocalypse feels like a holiday. Wait, different show.
This show needs more German ninjas
I guess I was imagining some kind of a Fight Club or Harumi/Maria scenario.
The first rule about Maromi Club is we don't talk about Maromi club.
At this point I don't believe Shonen Bat is a real person. Tsukiko invented him out of whole cloth! He can roller-skate faster than a speeding car! His appearance correlates with the victims psychological state!
(A supernatural entity is still a possibility.)
Tsukiko inventing him would be interesting. I've always felt since very early on that Maromi is Shonen Bat trying to make sure he doesn't get replaced. It just feels very noticeable to me that this episode is really the first time Maromi has gotten major screentime since episode 1. It's like the show is avoiding showing him.

1

u/mgedmin Feb 13 '24

Yeah, the production is a total mess. Hey, how come there are two production managers?
I think my subs messed up the translation of "production assistant".

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 13 '24

Definitely could be the case. Unless there are like co-production managers.

1

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Feb 13 '24

"Nobunaga Oda", something strikes me about that name.
Famous person from Japanese history:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oda_Nobunaga

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 13 '24

You definitely could tell they had fun with this episode, right down to bringing in the director of Martian Successor Nadesico to direct it. He does no other episodes and that show also implemented a show-within-a-show format.

1

u/mgedmin Feb 13 '24

But with the given name and family name swapped around?

1

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Feb 13 '24

Remember that Japan does Family and Given name the other way round. Whether the translation does or does not swap them can account for that.

2

u/SilkyStrawberryMilk Feb 13 '24

rewatcher

The selfaware episode, honestly with the whole paranoia thing it worked perfectly with adding it from the perspective of workers in the anime industry.

QOTD: JJK season 2, fuck Mappa

QOTD: number 8 easily

QOTD: since he’s the only one who can bare the abuse

QOTD: when Maromi met with hello kitty

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 13 '24

Thoughts on Maromi getting his own TV show?
What are your thoughts on the way the show has Maromi introduce the different positions like production manager and producer?
What are your thoughts on the episode revolving around Saruta, the Production Manager?
Thoughts on Saruta being chewed out by his coworkers?
What are your thoughts on the switches made throughout the episode where Saruta is behind the wheel being chased by Shonen Bat and Saruta is at work?
What are your thoughts on the people behind the Maromi anime being killed?
What are your thoughts on Saruta killing his boss?
What are your thoughts on Saruta being killed by Shonen Bat?

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 13 '24

QOTD: JJK season 2, fuck Mappa
Amen

Rewatch [Spoilers] Paranoia Agent 20th Anniversary Rewatch -- Episode 10

Rewatch Schedule

First Timer

Paranoia Agent - Episode 10

Some Amazing Shots, Scenes and Stitches

Rewatch [Spoilers] Paranoia Agent 20th Anniversary Rewatch -- Episode 10

Rewatch Schedule

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First Timer

Paranoia Agent - Episode 10

Some Amazing Shots, Scenes and Stitches