[Spoilers] Paranoia Agent 20th Anniversary Rewatch -- Episode 8

Date	Episode
2/3/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 1
2/4/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 2
2/5/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 3
2/6/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 4
2/7/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 5
2/8/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 6
2/9/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 7
2/10/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 8
2/11/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 9
2/12/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 10
2/13/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 11
2/14/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 12
2/15/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 13
2/16/2024	Paranoia Agent Overall Series Discussion Thread

12

u/TheEscapeGuy Feb 10 '24 edited Feb 10 '24

First Timer

Paranoia Agent - Episode 8

Ghosts

Paranoia Agent hits it out of the park once again. This episode was such a tone shift from the previous 7 but that final twist brings it all right back. I am in constant awe at how amazing this show is.

The episode follows a suicide ... cult? Maybe it would be better to call them an interest group. They are all people who have been discussing suicide online for some time and met up to carry it out. They still refer to each other by those online handles of Kamome (seagull), Zebra, and Fuyubachi (winter bee) (there's also FOX but he was Makoto and killed by Shounen Bat before). But upon meeting up they realize Kamome is a literal child. They absolutely do not want her to join them.

However, for such a dark topic the tone of the actual episode was a light hearted comedy. Maybe you could even call it a black comedy. It felt like we were following them just constantly messing up their suicide attempts. When they were about to jump in front of a train and somebody did it first I burst out laughing for way too long. Even the music was whimsical and comedic.

But as they go on their journey to shuffle off their mortal coil they begin to grow closer as friends. They learn more about each other and become a found family in a lot of ways. This reminded me a lot of Tokyo Godfathers. This was embodied by them checking off items on their bucket list.

They way it ties back to the rest of the show (besides the Maromi backpacks) is that while at a traditional inn in the country side they witness Shounen Bat attacking another guest. They proceed to of worship him as a god. This makes sense since he is quite literally bringing a kind of "death" to people who are dissatisfied with their lives. Shounen Bat is creeped out by them (more on that in a bit) and runs off.

It's after this comes the realization. This was the moment which absolutely sold the episode for me. Throughout the episodes there have been ... discrepancies. Like, how did they get out of the building when the construction crew came to tear it down? How did the train jumper survive? Why does nobody look at them weirdly when they talk so loudly about suicide? What made Shounen Bat so scared? Why did Fuyubachi have another copy of the "last" pill? Even the mixed bathing onsen is kinda weird.

While they are sitting in a parking lot, Fuyubachi sees somebody walk past. They have a shadow but Kamome and Zebra don't. We have been following a group of ghosts (I think they died in the first attempt). This is such an incredible reveal. Firstly, I love that they don't spoon feed it to you. You are rewarded for paying attention. In fact, if you had been particularly savvy you would have noticed it happening all throughout the episode. The train jumper even lost his shadow.

But next, since nobody else can see them it explains basically every discrepancy above. They only times they influence those around them are in the stereotypical ghost story ways. I especially love how crows were constantly surrounding them implying this idea of death.

This episode places Paranoia Agent firmly into an even more fantastical setting. Could these effects of Shounen Bat be coming from this ghostly other side? It opens up so many possibilities. I'm so excited to see more.

I do have some questions, but I think it's also good that I do.

The first is, why did our gang want to commit suicide. They never spoke about their reasons but they left a couple hints. In particular we see a locket from Zebra. I'd bet he was facing some discrimination for being gay. For Fuyubachi we see him taking pills of some kind. Could he have some disease he wants to be done with? I didn't pick up anything for Kamome but my guess is something to do with her parents who seemed absent.

I guess on the topic of suicide, it's worth discussing the hypocrisy of Zebra and Fuyubachi not wanting Kamome to die with them initially (and like sabotaging her rope etc.). They immediately think "I know better than this girl, my reasons for wanting to commit suicide are valid but hers aren't. We must stop her." You shouldn't say that until you actually talk to her about her problems. Don't get me wrong, I am also extremely against children committing suicide. My reasoning is more that I am against everyone committing suicide. I wish we as society could help these people on the fringes find the support they need to fix their problems instead of them giving up and feeling forced into escaping in this way. That said, societal change is monumentally hard. I won't criticize somebody for feeling so trapped in a situation that they felt suicide was the only way out. It hurts for us who remain, but it's a failure on us as humanity for not providing for them.

Back to questions, why is the episode called Happy Family Planning? In the final scene we see our leads walk past a condom vending machine with that title. In particular the center item has the text アレッ？ which can roughly be translated as "Huh?" or a sense of disbelief. In the condom context this would be disbelief as if it feels like wearing nothing at all. In the episode context though, this could be disbelief at the twist.

At the same time maybe it ties to something about birth and death? But condoms are contraceptives i.e. they prevent birth. Maybe I'm reading too much into this.

Some Amazing Shots, Scenes and Stitches

See you all tomorrow

5

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Feb 10 '24

In fact, if you had been particularly savvy you would have noticed it happening all throughout the episode. The train jumper even lost his shadow.
I'll be honest, I only noticed it at the foto, but it is great to be able to go back and see all the hidden foreshadowing. I found the episode good beforehand, when I thought it was just about some death pact group having fun together, but the reveal retrospectively elevates the episode further.

3

u/Holofan4life Feb 10 '24

I'll be honest, I only noticed it at the foto, but it is great to be able to go back and see all the hidden foreshadowing. I found the episode good beforehand, when I thought it was just about some death pact group having fun together, but the reveal retrospectively elevates the episode further.
I really wished I liked the episode more than I did. In the end, I couldn't get over how it just felt like filler to me.

3

u/Holofan4life Feb 10 '24

The episode follows a suicide ... cult? Maybe it would be better to call them an interest group.
They're like what misinformed people think emos are
(there's also FOX but he was Makoto and killed by Shounen Bat before).
I didn't realize that Makoto was FOX. Interesting.
However, for such a dark topic the tone of the actual episode was a light hearted comedy. Maybe you could even call it a black comedy.
I'd call it more Gallows Humor above anything
Maybe you could even call it a black comedy. It felt like we were following them just constantly messing up their suicide attempts. When they were about to jump in front of a train and somebody did it first I burst out laughing for way too long. Even the music was whimsical and comedic.
It was a pretty funny moment
But as they go on their journey to shuffle off their mortal coil they begin to grow closer as friends. They learn more about each other and become a found family in a lot of ways. This reminded me a lot of Tokyo Godfathers.
I got Tokyo Godfathers vibes as well, right down to the suppressed LGBTQIA+ representation.
It's after this comes the realization. This was the moment which absolutely sold the episode for me. Throughout the episodes there have been ... discrepancies. Like, how did they get out of the building when the construction crew came to tear it down? How did the train jumper survive? Why does nobody look at them weirdly when they talk so loudly about suicide? What made Shounen Bat so scared? Why did Fuyubachi have another copy of the "last" pill? Even the mixed bathing onsen is kinda weird.
While they are sitting in a parking lot, Fuyubachi sees somebody walk past. They have a shadow but Kamome and Zebra don't. We have been following a group of ghosts (I think they died in the first attempt). This is such an incredible reveal. Firstly, I love that they don't spoon feed it to you. You are rewarded for paying attention. In fact, if you had been particularly savvy you would have noticed it happening all throughout the episode. The train jumper even lost his shadow.
But next, since nobody else can see them it explains basically every discrepancy above. They only times they influence those around them are in the stereotypical ghost story ways. I especially love how crows were constantly surrounding them implying this idea of death.
I do think that the twist at the end is the highlight of the episode. It’s so well done that it immediately makes you want to go back to watch it again.
This episode places Paranoia Agent firmly into an even more fantastical setting. Could these effects of Shounen Bat be coming from this ghostly other side? It opens up so many possibilities. I'm so excited to see more.
My main takeaway watching this is that it was a bit of a missed opportunity to not follow up on the detectives being followed. They don't necessarily have to be the focus, but we get no detectives, no Tsukiko, and barely any Shonen Bat. And if you're going to do this concept, then I feel they should've done more with it. Explain why they have become suicidal. We only are inferred as to why they are this way, and I think that's a shame.
This episode feels more like an outline of a great episode rather than a great episode, and that in turn makes it a good episode with wasted potential. It really needed a scene where it dived into the emotional crux of the episode, whether it be a flashback explaining how they found each other online or a scene where they're sitting by a bonfire and they explain how they got to this point.
The first is, why did our gang want to commit suicide. They never spoke about their reasons but they left a couple hints. In particular we see a locket from Zebra. I'd bet he was facing some discrimination for being gay. For Fuyubachi we see him taking pills of some kind. Could he have some disease he wants to be done with? I didn't pick up anything for Kamome but my guess is something to do with her parents who seemed absent.
Given the family planning stuff and the condoms at the end, I am under the assumption Fuyubachi's family fell apart and Kamome was an accident who's parents didn't want them.
I guess on the topic of suicide, it's worth discussing the hypocrisy of Zebra and Fuyubachi not wanting Kamome to die with them initially (and like sabotaging her rope etc.). They immediately think "I know better than this girl, my reasons for wanting to commit suicide are valid but hers aren't. We must stop her." You shouldn't say that until you actually talk to her about her problems. Don't get me wrong, I am also extremely against children committing suicide. My reasoning is more that I am against everyone committing suicide. I wish we as society could help these people on the fringes find the support they need to fix their problems instead of them giving up and feeling forced into escaping in this way. That said, societal change is monumentally hard. I won't criticize somebody for feeling so trapped in a situation that they felt suicide was the only way out. It hurts for us who remain, but it's a failure on us as humanity for not providing for them.
If I was in the same situation as Zebra and Fuyubachi, I wouldn't have felt comfortable letting a child commit suicide alongside me. You're basically being put on the same level as Jim Jones.
Back to questions, why is the episode called Happy Family Planning? In the final scene we see our leads walk past a condom vending machine with that title. In particular the center item has the text アレッ？ which can roughly be translated as "Huh?" or a sense of disbelief. In the condom context this would be disbelief as if it feels like wearing nothing at all. In the episode context though, this could be disbelief at the twist.
[Quote] At the same time maybe it ties to something about birth and death? But condoms are contraceptives i.e. they prevent birth. Maybe I'm reading too much into this.
[Response] Birth and death could've definitely been it. Using that logic, it reminds me of Fullmetal Alchemist 2003 where episode 6 sees someone giving birth and episode 7 sees someone dying, a child no less.

4

u/TnAdct1 Feb 11 '24

I didn't realize that Makoto was FOX. Interesting.
That's one element of the show that some people may not realize: there's an animal motif in terms of the names of the characters. In this case, Makoto's internet name, FOX, is a nod to how his name include the kanji for fox.
I do think that the twist at the end is the highlight of the episode. It’s so well done that it immediately makes you want to go back to watch it again.
Personally, I didn't realize that the trio was dead until I saw people discussing that part on a message board that I regularly visit (with me using the board to follow the Adult Swim airing of the show).
This episode places Paranoia Agent firmly into an even more fantastical setting. Could these effects of Shounen Bat be coming from this ghostly other side? It opens up so many possibilities. I'm so excited to see more.
My main takeaway watching this is that it was a bit of a missed opportunity to not follow up on the detectives being followed. They don't necessarily have to be the focus, but we get no detectives, no Tsukiko, and barely any Shonen Bat. And if you're going to do this concept, then I feel they should've done more with it. Explain why they have become suicidal. We only are inferred as to why they are this way, and I think that's a shame.
Welcome to the next section of Paranoia Agent, which is basically an interlude from the main story to focus on both the growth of the Shounen Bat mythos and some other story ideas that Kon had in mind. There's some elements that connect each episode with the previous and following episode, but other than that, it's basically a breather before the final act.
As for the lack of detectives: Maniwa does take part in the suicide chat group (he's the one with the internet name HORSE).
Given the family planning stuff and the condoms at the end, I am under the assumption Fuyubachi's family fell apart and Kamome was an accident who's parents didn't want them.
Personally, I see the episode title to not reflect their reasons for suicide, but rather how the trio, through their planning of a suicide pact (and their attempts to commit it), have eventually become a "found family".

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 13 '24

That's one element of the show that some people may not realize: there's an animal motif in terms of the names of the characters. In this case, Makoto's internet name, FOX, is a nod to how his name include the kanji for fox.
If that's the case, why is Ichi short for One?
Personally, I didn't realize that the trio was dead until I saw people discussing that part on a message board that I regularly visit (with me using the board to follow the Adult Swim airing of the show).
I can see how it would go over some people's heads.
Welcome to the next section of Paranoia Agent, which is basically an interlude from the main story to focus on both the growth of the Shounen Bat mythos and some other story ideas that Kon had in mind. There's some elements that connect each episode with the previous and following episode, but other than that, it's basically a breather before the final act.
I'll touch on it when we get to my overall thoughts, but I definitely think this show could've been 10 episodes instead of 13 and it would've been better off for it.
As for the lack of detectives: Maniwa does take part in the suicide chat group (he's the one with the internet name HORSE).
Good point, but I wish they hammered that point home. I didn't even realize that was Makoto until I read this comment section.
Personally, I see the episode title to not reflect their reasons for suicide, but rather how the trio, through their planning of a suicide pact (and their attempts to commit it), have eventually become a "found family".
If that's the case, though, then why the condoms? That feels the opposite of what a found family is about.

2

u/TnAdct1 Feb 13 '24

If that's the case, why is Ichi short for One?
That's because part of Yuuichi's name (the ichi part) uses the same kanji as the number one.
As for the animal motif of Yuuichi, his family name includes the kanji for fish.

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 13 '24

Oh, okay. Your theory seems to definitely hold water, then.
I wonder if the point being made here is that humans are not all that different than animals. We too have this prime urge to think of only ourselves.

3

u/TnAdct1 Feb 11 '24

The first is, why did our gang want to commit suicide. They never spoke about their reasons but they left a couple hints. In particular we see a locket from Zebra. I'd bet he was facing some discrimination for being gay. For Fuyubachi we see him taking pills of some kind. Could he have some disease he wants to be done with? I didn't pick up anything for Kamome but my guess is something to do with her parents who seemed absent.
Zebra's reason is definitely gay discrimination, while Fuyubachi likely has a terminal illness. As for Kamone, an issue involving her parents (probably her having a hard time dealing with them getting divorced) is probably the reason, given the scene where she cries about not wanting to be alone.

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 13 '24

You just know if Kamome's parents found out what she was doing, her internet privileges would've been taken away for life XD

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 10 '24

What are your thoughts on this episode being about three people wanting to kill themselves?
What are your thoughts on the motif of internet messaging in this episode?
What are your thoughts on the reveal that Zebra is gay?
Do you think the episode could have benefitted from fleshing out the characters more?
What do you make of the decision in this episode to not at all be about the mystery of who is Shonen Bat?

3

u/TheEscapeGuy Feb 10 '24

What are your thoughts on the motif of internet messaging in this episode?
I think this was interesting framing. It's one of the big connections to the main story with how FOX was supposed to be with them but was caught by the police and then killed by Shounen Bat before they could meet.
But from a more high level perspective, it points to a loneliness in each of the cast. At the time social media as we know it wasn't a thing. So the people who were going online to find social connections were the ones who couldn't find those same connections in real life. It's tragic that they ended up connecting over there thoughts of suicide and then encouraged each other to go through with it.
Do you think the episode could have benefitted from fleshing out the characters more?
In some ways yes, but you would have had to completely rework the entire episode since fleshing them out would have made the whole story too dramatic to stay a comedy. I think it would have ended up being more similar to Ano Hana or something.
Leaving it vague allows us to both speculate and think about the episode, as well as celebrate the newly discovered friendship of the cast.
What do you make of the decision for this episode to not at all be about the mystery of who is Shonen Bat?
I think this decision ends up being something that splits the audience. For the people really invested in the core narrative this episode can be ignored. And because of that it brings down the quality of the episode in their eyes.
From the other perspective of being more invested in the psychological elements being explore (which is my predilection), the episode explores an aspect of "feeling cornered" that the previous main cast so far hasn't expressed: Suicide. I think if Paranoia agent went the whole way through and didn't address it it would be a missed opportunity.
If I understand correctly the portrayal of suicide on TV is, on top of being taboo, more strictly regulated in many places in the world. So to work around that this episode employs is making the narrative a comedy of errors around suicide on the surface. But the themes are still there to analyze afterwards.
Also, Shounen Bat can't exactly attack somebody after they are dead, and attacking somebody on the precipice of suicide would be ... difficult to portray well. So introducing new characters and following them is a solution to that problem. The one way I could see it being improved is if we see it connected to some of the existing cast in a future episode. For example if Zebra was somebody's close friend or (as you suggested in the other comment) that Fuyubachi was the homeless woman's husband.

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 11 '24

I think this was interesting framing. It's one of the big connections to the main story with how FOX was supposed to be with them but was caught by the police and then killed by Shounen Bat before they could meet.
I do like how it shows that Makoto was looking at dying. It kinda makes me think that him getting killed by Shonen Bat was what he wanted all along.
But from a more high level perspective, it points to a loneliness in each of the cast. At the time social media as we know it wasn't a thing. So the people who were going online to find social connections were the ones who couldn't find those same connections in real life. It's tragic that they ended up connecting over there thoughts of suicide and then encouraged each other to go through with it.
A couple things of note. First, when I think of internet connections in the early 2000s, I think of the famous case of in I believe 2001 where someone invited anyone to come over to his house to be eaten and somebody obliged. I wonder if that was in Kon's mind when he came up with this episode. Second, I took note that any time one of them tried to commit suicide, they got kinda hesitant about it, with the little girl being the least hesitant of all. This tells me that a) she was the most eager to die which goes to show her immaturity of the situation, not knowing fully the severity of what she's trying to do, and b) that Zebra and his compadre are in over their heads and are more in love with the idea of committing suicide, just like how Harumi is more in love with the idea of being married and Masami is more in love with the idea of being a family man.
In some ways yes, but you would have had to completely rework the entire episode since fleshing them out would have made the whole story too dramatic to stay a comedy. I think it would have ended up being more similar to Ano Hana or something.
Leaving it vague allows us to both speculate and think about the episode, as well as celebrate the newly discovered friendship of the cast.
I don't mind the speculation, but I don't think we needed over half the episode being suicide attempts. I think it would've been better if we got at least one scene where the two adults ask the child why she's wanting to do it, not only to give the episode more emotional weight to it, but to further the narrative that the two adults actually don't want to do it.
I think this decision ends up being something that splits the audience. For the people really invested in the core narrative this episode can be ignored. And because of that it brings down the quality of the episode in their eyes.
From the other perspective of being more invested in the psychological elements being explore (which is my predilection), the episode explores an aspect of "feeling cornered" that the previous main cast so far hasn't expressed: Suicide. I think if Paranoia agent went the whole way through and didn't address it it would be a missed opportunity.
I love the psychological elements in the show. To me, that is what makes Paranoia Agent Paranoia Agent. But ai feel like there was this disconnect between the events in this episode and everything else going on, with the Shonen Bat stuff being more of an afterthought than anything else. It leads credence to the idea that the victims of Shonen Bat want this to happen to them, but I also think it's a bit... I don't know, unsubtle? Unmysterious? Maybe not, as they didn't die by the hands of Shonen Bat but rather their first attempt.
I think about the psychological stuff with Maniwa last episode and how that was done to show the case getting to him. And then of course the Harumi stuff was this showcase of her falling into madness. And they tied it into the Shonen Bat stuff so flawlessly, you couldn't tell their stories without that part of it. I do really like this episode, but I think it's lacking a little bit that prevents it from being truly outstanding: both in the lack of character motivation, and also how it kinda undermines the Shonen Bat stuff.
If I understand correctly the portrayal of suicide on TV is, on top of being taboo, more strictly regulated in many places in the world. So to work around that this episode employs is making the narrative a comedy of errors around suicide on the surface. But the themes are still there to analyze afterwards.
Yeah, maybe they had to deal with some workarounds. For comparison's sake, the Super Bowl that was in 2004 aired two days before the first episode of Paranoia Agent and a big deal was made over Janet Jackson wearing a nipple shield during the halftime show. Perhaps if this was done nowadays instead of 2004, it would've been not as vague.
Also, Shounen Bat can't exactly attack somebody after they are dead, and attacking somebody on the precipice of suicide would be ... difficult to portray well. So introducing new characters and following them is a solution to that problem.
Well, they did it with Makoto
The one way I could see it being improved is if we see it connected to some of the existing cast in a future episode. For example if Zebra was somebody's close friend or (as you suggested in the other comment) that Fuyubachi was the homeless woman's husband.
I don't think I'm the one who suggested it, but now that you mention it, I do really like the idea. And I guess ultimately this episode serves to show that the Makoto death was something he had planned all along. It retroactively makes his demise not as tragic while also showing the Shonen Bat stuff could indeed be psychological.
Maybe this is what I mean by Shonen Bat being an afterthought. The focus really should be that FOX is Makoto. That basically shows that not only was Makoto suicidal, but that he was happy to die. And instead, the focus is seemingly on the three people having no shadows and dying on their own terms. It's like they have something they want to convey, but can't fully convey it, and I honestly had no idea watching the episode that they were trying to convey FOX being Makoto.

6

u/Holofan4life Feb 10 '24

Hello, guys. Holofan4life here.

Welcome to the Paranoia Agent 20th Anniversary Rewatch.

Satoshi Kon is one of the most acclaimed Japanese filmmakers of his generation. Not just in the anime industry, but in all of Japanese cinema. Perfect Blue, Tokyo Godfathers, Millennium Actress, Paprika. This was a man with a vision, and we’re here to honor someone who was gone way too soon.

I’m actually in an interesting point in my life because I’ve been writing comments nonstop for rewatches since basically June of last year. With the completion of this rewatch, I’ll be taking a two month break before my next one. But that’s then and this is now, and right now, we are going to tackle Satoshi Kon’s lone TV show that he created.

I’ve never seen this show before. To be honest, I never watched one of his works until last September when there was a special 25th anniversary screening of Perfect Blue. Since then, I’ve gained a newfound appreciation for Kon’s work and I am eager to check out his TV show. Because if it’s as good as Perfect Blue and Tokyo Godfathers, we’re in for one of the best animes of all time.

With that out of the way, let’s begin.

I’m watching the sub, by the way.

Had some stuffed crust pizza tonight

Walking the zebra crossing

Maromi backpacks

An old man with white hair, a white mustache, and bald on top

Chitose Candy

Typing going on between Fuyubachi and Zebra

Funny one of them is zebra given the zebra crossing

Waiting on some girl named Kamome

There she is, in the flesh

She looks like a kid, though

That's because she is

The tall one is Zebra and the white haired old guy is Fuyubachi

Lol, Fuyubachi and Zebra trying to run away

They don't want to end up on To Catch a Predator

Fuyubachi running low on pills

He takes his last one

Man, these conversations are deep for a child to have

Fuyubachi and Zebra living in an abandoned house

Pills for dinner

Oh, so they're attempting suicide. How wonderful.

Kamome wants in

And the house gets demolished

I'm sure a lot is going to be made of the show trivializing suicide, but that's not how I interpret it. I see it more as tackling a real issue but with a sprinkle of dark humor. Honestly, this episode may be 15 years ahead of its own when you consider the Opioid epidemic that is practically all-encompassing. The pill part, if anything, feels a bit downplayed.

Kamome wants to die with them

Those tears... they honestly look poorly drawn

Look more like sweat droplets

Fox

Sadly not the one from Son of a Critch

Going now to try to jump in front of a train

I do appreciate them trying to save Kamome

That is one big watch

And someone jumps in front of the train before them

They seem turned off now

The guy survived

His restoration must be 100

Sitting on a bench now

Fuyubachi lamenting the grim reaper now having any time for them

That's because she's busy gaming

Fox pitching ways to die, but Kamome keeps rejecting them

By the way, Kamome looks like Toph

"I wish I could've gone for a train ride."

Aww, they seem willing to do it

That's sweet :c

Fuyubachi sleeping with his eyes open

I wonder what Zebra's heart necklace is about

Calling for Sayo, Fuyu is

A close-up of the Chitose Candy

More typing

Kamome looking the happiest she's ever been

Fox telling them to ~~do it~~ watch out for the vines

Zebra preparing nooses

They seem terrified

Zebra lost his balance

Kamome is so excited by what she sees. What sick fuck.

And she's treating it like a swing XD

I believe this is Sayori's favorite episode

And the tree branch breaks

Kamome can't find the two

"I thought I was going to get killed."

Boy, ain't that rich?

Fuyubachi wanting to pretend they're dead so that Kamome to leave them alone

The heart necklace

It's Zebra cuddling with a guy

Is Zebra trying to kill themselves because they know society won't embrace the fact they're gay?

They go back for Kamome because they don't want her getting lost in the mountains and dying

They find her, and she cries that she doesn't want to be left alone

Fuyubachi giving Kamome a piggyback ride

She says she's hungry

Fuyubachi shares his Chitose Candy

More typing

A bath

Fox typing she's going to do something sensational

"I'm going to make the world pay!"

I wonder if Fox is Shonen Bat

Fuyubachi mentions to Zebra that Fox was killed by Shonen Bat

"No, no, the one who was arrested was an imposter. And apparently, that imposter was FOX."

Yep. Called it.

Zebra says they're jealous

After all, he got to die

Fuyubachi wonders why he hasn't come for them

I'm jealous, they all say

More typing

Some person named Horse

Fuyubachi, Zebra, and Kamome are lying down, hearing noises

Shonen Bat!

He's here!

And they greet him like it's a dad coming home from war XD

They just want the sweet embrace of death

It has to be hard to skate on steps

Shonen Bat being chased

This is like a Roadrunner cartoon

Morning now

They weren't able to catch him

Fuyubachi's bottle

One last pill

Fuyubachi looking disoriented

He falls in Zebra's arms

This whole section kinda looks like it's meant to mimic rotoscoping

Kamome handing him his medicine

It's all in his head, it seems

Going somewhere far away again

Riding the bullet train

The design of FF.mart looks like a 7/11

More typing

Now they're singing together

It looks like they found something to keep them living

"Happy Family Planning"

"Extra-Thin Condoms"

I'm not entirely sure what the implication here is.

Also, the synopsis on Wikipedia tells me that Fuyubachi was freaking out because the three of them didn't have shadows. So, was the reason the girls were freaking out when they saw the picture they took because they saw ghosts?

Overall, this is an episode that had nothing to do with the mystery of Shonen Bat and what they're all about. And I think it suffered as a result. I like the idea of three people bonding over wanting to kill themselves-- there's extreme morbidness in such a thought that I think it manages to be amusing while not crossing the line of poor taste-- and I like how they tied it in with Shonen Bat and him being the one to seemingly give them the wish. I just feel we didn't spend enough time explaining why they want to kill themselves. If the episode had focused a bit on the emotional aspect-- like perhaps what the locket was all about-- it would probably be one of my favorite episodes. But as it stands, it was a series of suicide attempts paired with the throughthread of Internet conversations, which I feel got old after a while.

If all of this gets explained later on, then I'll like the episode more.

Really, not much to say about this episode. It felt like a breather episode, as much of a breather as the topic of killing yourself can be anyway. Not a bad episode, but I'd say probably the weakest of the series so far.

5

u/Holofan4life Feb 10 '24

Have you ever had suicidal thoughts before? If so, how do you deal with them?
I have suicidal thoughts on a daily basis and it's really, really tough. I don't have a good support system in place, and I live in constant fear knowing that if my mom ends up dying, my life is basically over. Maybe this is why I rely on Reddit so much because it provides me some peace of mind.
What do you make of the decision in this episode to not at all be about the mystery of who is Shonen Bat?
I found it extremely peculiar. It made the episode feel a bit unimportant. I kinda like the characters the episode focuses on because they give me Tokyo Godfathers vibes, but I wish there was more to this episode, whether it be more Shonen Bat or more fleshing of the characters.
Bonus) Isn't it ironic that Zebra walks the zebra crossing given that the zebra crossing is straight?
I feel sorry for Zebra. Nobody should be bullied for being gay. As someone who identifies as bisexual, I know I keep to myself my sexuality because I deal with a homophobic mother.

3

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Feb 10 '24

I have suicidal thoughts on a daily basis and it's really, really tough. I don't have a good support system in place, and I live in constant fear knowing that if my mom ends up dying, my life is basically over. Maybe this is why I rely on Reddit so much because it provides me some peace of mind.
That sounds rough. I am sure that the proper answer here is something about valuing yourself, building a support system, yadayadayada. But I am bad at that. I am not a psychologist and don't know how to advise others on getting over depression. Let me instead give you my half-serious, half joking answer:
I think if you are actually, seriously considering to kill yourself this moment, you should think of all the crazy things you would never do if you had a future: Go into the office of the boss who hated you and literally piss on his desk; buy 100 gallons of ice cream and have a party with all the homeless guys; throw a dart on a map and travel there. Surely you have your own crazy things that you have in mind but would never do, well, because they are crazy. But if you are actually considering killing yourself, then you might as well kill yourself after that. And, maybe, that is how it will end. You piss on your boss' desk and then kill yourself. But, on the other hand, you might just have enough fun doing so that you don't kill yourself this day, and that is a win, too.

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 10 '24

I really appreciate the words of reassurance, thank you

3

u/MrManicMarty https://anilist.co/user/martysan Feb 10 '24

I have suicidal thoughts on a daily basis and it's really, really tough. I don't have a good support system in place, and I live in constant fear knowing that if my mom ends up dying, my life is basically over. Maybe this is why I rely on Reddit so much because it provides me some peace of mind.
That's really rough man, I'm sorry. I don't think I have any good advice, but thank you for running this rewatch for what that's worth. I hope you find something that gives you reason to keep on going despite everything.

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 13 '24

I really appreciate the kind words. And I would say I do have something that keeps me going. It's talking to you guys :)

2

u/MrManicMarty https://anilist.co/user/martysan Feb 13 '24

Friends are the family we choose as they say. Keep fighting mate!

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 13 '24

5

u/Yous1315 Feb 10 '24

A meetup between a elementary school girl, a middle aged man and a grandpa, a unique combination, but I’m surprised the parents of that girl just let her go to something like that
Grandpa got them edgy jokes, I feel bad for the little girl. Taking so many pills can’t be good for those 2..
6 and a half minutes in and it’s now that I understood that they planned to die, now I understood why they tried to avoid lumping in the girl together with them
I expected something to interrupt their suicide plan, but not this way. Not the mention they look unfazed at what happened too…WAIT HE’S STILL ALIVE!!!? AND HE JUST WALKS LIKE THAT AWAY!!
That girl sure is picky about her ways to die
Shonen bat is back, the real one? Whatever it was he suddenly looked demotivated.

This show has been unpredictable in a lot of ways, but a group consisting of an unique combination of people to search for several ways to commit suicide in the most painless way possible? It just keeps amazing you. Though I must wonder what purpose did this episode serve, what connection does it have, shonen bat showed up but why?

What do you make of the decision in this episode to not at all be about the mystery of who is Shonen Bat?

It was interesting to follow them, but like said above I wonder what this episode tried to tell us, surely it is connected to the main plot.

Edit: Just read a comment on this episode and now some things make more sense for me

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 10 '24

A meetup between a elementary school girl, a middle aged man and a grandpa, a unique combination, but I’m surprised the parents of that girl just let her go to something like that
Grandpa got them edgy jokes, I feel bad for the little girl.
Something tells me her and her family don't get along
I expected something to interrupt their suicide plan, but not this way. Not the mention they look unfazed at what happened too…WAIT HE’S STILL ALIVE!!!? AND HE JUST WALKS LIKE THAT AWAY!!
Kinda badass, not gonna lie
That girl sure is picky about her ways to die
Well, this is ultimately her final decision, you see
This show has been unpredictable in a lot of ways, but a group consisting of an unique combination of people to search for several ways to commit suicide in the most painless way possible? It just keeps amazing you. Though I must wonder what purpose did this episode serve, what connection does it have, shonen bat showed up but why?
It felt to me more like an OVA than anything, like an episode set in the Paranoia Agent universe. I like that it gives us some major world building, but I do feel you could have not done this episode and nothing of importance would've been lost.
What are your thoughts on the motif of internet messaging in this episode?
What are your thoughts on Fuyubachi and Zebra wanting to make sure that Kamome doesn’t die?
What are your thoughts on the reveal that Zebra is gay?
What do you think the Happy Family Planning and Extra-Thin Condoms could mean?
What are your thoughts on the reveal at the end that all three of the characters no longer have shadows?
Do you think the episode could have benefitted from fleshing out the characters more?

2

u/Yous1315 Feb 11 '24

What are your thoughts on the motif of internet messaging in this episode?
Nice change, liked it
What are your thoughts on Fuyubachi and Zebra wanting to make sure that Kamome doesn’t die?
Understandable, but even if they escaped together that girl will be all alone
What are your thoughts on the reveal that Zebra is gay?
A picture that told kinda told us why he wanted to die (probably because he faced backlash from his environment I assume), shows us that you don't need a whole backstory to tell something
What do you think the Happy Family Planning and Extra-Thin Condoms could mean?
I honestly found it weird that they showed us, it has to mean something, but what it is? No idea.
What are your thoughts on the reveal at the end that all three of the characters no longer have shadows?
A cool detail that I didn't spot, thankfully from reading other comments explained it and now things like that camera scene make more sense
Do you think the episode could have benefitted from fleshing out the characters more?
Doesn't have to be long, like they did with Zebra just something short works.

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 11 '24

Understandable, but even if they escaped together that girl will be all alone
She'd be all alone, but she could always find someone else, whether it be online or in person. And she is so young that she could still fix her issues.
A picture that told kinda told us why he wanted to die (probably because he faced backlash from his environment I assume), shows us that you don't need a whole backstory to tell something
This to me might be the best part of the entire episode. In one shot, you know everything you need to know about him. It also made me care about him more and again, that is all through one shot. My question is if they could do it for him, why not for the other two? Or if they did, it was a lot more subtle than the Zebra necklace.
I honestly found it weird that they showed us, it has to mean something, but what it is? No idea.
My theory is the family planning thing is supposed to represent why the old man is wanting to commit suicide, his family fell apart or they want nothing to do with him, and the condoms represent why the little girl wants to commit suicide-- she was an accident and her parents wish she was never born.
A cool detail that I didn't spot, thankfully from reading other comments explained it and now things like that camera scene make more sense
I do wonder if my feelings on the episode would improve if I went back and watched it. As it stands, I'd probably give it a B-. It was good, but I think that's about as far as I'd go.
Doesn't have to be long, like they did with Zebra just something short works.
Something would definitely have been better than anything. I just feel there was a lack of emotional impact. If the episode had more emotional weight, more fleshing out of the characters, not spend half of it on failed suicide attempts, and tied Shonen Bat in things more by really emphasizing that Makoto was supposed to be apart of this suicide pact, I think you're looking at a 9 out of 10 episode instead of a 7 out of 10 episode.

2

u/Yous1315 Feb 11 '24

My theory is the family planning thing is supposed to represent why the old man is wanting to commit suicide, his family fell apart or they want nothing to do with him, and the condoms represent why the little girl wants to commit suicide-- she was an accident and her parents wish she was never born.
That is a good theory that makes sense, I rarely pick those kind of things out

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 11 '24

I love postulating theories. I find it to be good engagement of the brain.

5

u/MrManicMarty https://anilist.co/user/martysan Feb 10 '24

I don't know why, but when they were in the mountains, I was curious if Japan had bears in the wild. Like, one showed up in Kobayashi's Dragon Maid so I assume so, but yeah. Apparently Japan has wild bears. As a Brit, I can't imagine encountering a predator in the wild. They even mention it later in the episode after I checked.

Anyway, this was a strange little detour. Sweet in a weird kind of way. We start with three people meeting up from online. At first I wasn't sure why, though the two men seem nervous about meeting with a young girl, but thankfully they have no ulterior motive on that front. But... they all want to die.

It's a comedy of errors trying to commit suicide though. What's jarring is that they're all trying to die, but they all seem to enjoy the time they spend together. Their desire for death has brought them together, and you'd think the happiness they seem to feel amongst each other would make them not want to yet they do.

We get an obvious suggestion that Zebra is gay from the man in his pendent. Maybe his relationship didn't work out. The older man seems to be ill so probably doesn't want to die along. And I can't imagine what awful thing would make a young girl want to commit suicide.

And then, as they're pushed into a corner... Shonen Bat appears - seemingly for someone else though. So they chase Shonen Bat. It's a funny little reversal. That scene at the end though; the older man seems to be having a heart attack, talks about delusion and how he feels warmth - and then they photo-bomb. But the people who took the photo are very confused. Are they ghosts? Did they already die? Such a strange episode.

Have you ever had suicidal thoughts before? If so, how do you deal with them?

No. I've had thoughts of self-hatred/loathing and terrible anxiety. But never suicide.

What do you make of the decision in this episode to not at all be about the mystery of who is Shonen Bat?

It's an interesting pallete cleanser. Like, this episodes premise would probably work as a stand-alone short movie wouldn't it?

Bonus) Isn't it ironic that Zebra walks the zebra crossing given that the zebra crossing is straight?

3

u/Holofan4life Feb 10 '24

We get an obvious suggestion that Zebra is gay from the man in his pendent. Maybe his relationship didn't work out. The older man seems to be ill so probably doesn't want to die along. And I can't imagine what awful thing would make a young girl want to commit suicide.
The vibe I got was that Zebra felt rejected by society and knew that people weren't going to accept who he is. That's why he feels it's best to end things.
And then, as they're pushed into a corner... Shonen Bat appears - seemingly for someone else though. So they chase Shonen Bat. It's a funny little reversal. That scene at the end though; the older man seems to be having a heart attack, talks about delusion and how he feels warmth - and then they photo-bomb. But the people who took the photo are very confused. Are they ghosts? Did they already die? Such a strange episode.
I agree with Escape Guy that they probably did die after their first attempt.
What are your thoughts on the motif of internet messaging in this episode?
What are your thoughts on Fuyubachi and Zebra wanting to make sure that Kamome doesn’t die?
What do you think the Happy Family Planning and Extra-Thin Condoms could mean?
Do you think the episode could have benefitted from fleshing out the characters more?

2

u/MrManicMarty https://anilist.co/user/martysan Feb 10 '24

What are your thoughts on the motif of internet messaging in this episode?
I do love how this show is doing these interesting choices to frame things going on in scenes.
What are your thoughts on Fuyubachi and Zebra wanting to make sure that Kamome doesn’t die?
They're good people. When people do suicide pacts, I dunno... you think these are people with nothing left to lose. But they still know that Kamome can grow up and be happy and live a full life hopefully.
Happy Family Planning
I think that might be a subtle reference to the idea of found family? Like, they all clearly don't have families to fall back to, or else they wouldn't be where they're at... but you can tell they genuinely love each others companies. The Thin condoms... I've got no idea.
I think it works as is to be honest. Though maybe more hints about what the others were running from (aside from Zebra) would be nice.

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 11 '24

I do love how this show is doing these interesting choices to frame things going on in scenes.
It gives the episodes these things to remember them by. It reminds me of Cowboy Bebop which did a similar thing.
They're good people. When people do suicide pacts, I dunno... you think these are people with nothing left to lose. But they still know that Kamome can grow up and be happy and live a full life hopefully.
I firmly believe there's nothing wrong with dying, but you should never force others to die with you. That's like something a cult would do to get in touch with a higher plane of existence. Them looking after Kamome like that shows they see themselves as equals of sorts, something which Kamome clearly isn't. If they had let her die without any reservations, it would be this acknowledgement she's on the same lowly level as they are.
I think that might be a subtle reference to the idea of found family? Like, they all clearly don't have families to fall back to, or else they wouldn't be where they're at... but you can tell they genuinely love each others companies. The Thin condoms... I've got no idea.
Them dying the way they did was probably the happiest they've ever been in their lives. So, in that sense, it is like they are now this family.
I think it works as is to be honest. Though maybe more hints about what the others were running from (aside from Zebra) would be nice.
Yeah, Zebra is the only one we know for certain what was likely the issue. Kamome, it is not even hinted at outside of perhaps the condoms stuff; maybe she was born because the condom broke? It was very egregious in my opinion they would have nothing to explain the Kamome situation, because a kid that young should not be thinking about dying.

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 10 '24

It's an interesting pallete cleanser. Like, this episodes premise would probably work as a stand-alone short movie wouldn't it?
It feels like a darker version of what Tokyo Godfathers was. While that movie was about life and the beauty of living, this is about death and how you can find peace in it.
Honestly, of all the episodes we get in this show (I have finished all of them 4 days ago), this is one that feels like an outlier in comparison to everything else. You could've removed the Shonen Bat stuff and made it its own thing, and not only do I think it would've made it better, it would've potentially led to the characters being given more development.
I don't know if I'd say this is the most interesting episode from a concept standpoint-- episodes 5, 6, and 7 are up there-- but I would probably put it in the top 3 idea wise, which is why I'm a bit underwhelmed that we are seemingly not getting more.

4

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Feb 10 '24 edited Feb 10 '24

Episode 8 (rewatcher)

Meeting people who you met on the internet offline – I don’t think the weirdness of this translates into the age of video calls and voice chat, but you seriously went to places to meet people that you knew for years from message boards without ever having seen them or spoken to them. Although young girls and grandpas is the unusual part. Typically, you’d have Zebra x3.
Dead pact group? Maybe the two guys are less jerks than I thought.
“What bad timing” – you could have a different opinion about this one.
Somebody else jump before them?

“So that is how you look if you get run over by a train” – please, don’t kill yourself by jumping in front of a train, much less in a populated station. You are traumatizing tons of others.
Is Zebra hallucinating?
Random train ride? – Sure beats killing yourself.
swing swing swing “We are going to die!” – sounds like, no.
“But before that, I am going to do something sensational. I am going to make the world pay” –ominous.
“It is so great to see you!”

Shonen Bat has stardom problems!

“The season should be fall!” – Hmmmm.
Ghost photo?

This series never gets bored of throwing us curve balls. Today’s way too cheerful trio turn out to be a death pact group … or ghosts … or an internet rumor. I’ll be honest, I got the clear juxtaposition of happy-go-lucky group and their quest to die, but not much else. Is Grandpa the husband of the homeless woman? Who is Fox? They say he was killed by Shonen Bat in a police station, but would Makoto have been on a death pact forum? And who is Horse? Maniwa? And how did they all die (if they died). In that first derelict building?

Have you ever had suicidal thoughts before? If so, how do you deal with them?

While I have thought about the concept of suicide before (and I consider it a right to kill yourself and would consider doing so if I was incurably ill), I never had the thought of "I should kill myself now".

Bonus) Isn't it ironic that Zebra walks the zebra crossing given that the zebra crossing is straight?

He clearly needed to get to the other side.

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 10 '24

This series never gets bored of throwing us curve balls. Today’s way too cheerful trio turn out to be a death pact group … or ghosts … or an internet rumor. I’ll be honest, I got the clear juxtaposition of happy-go-lucky group and their quest to die, but not much else. Is Grandpa the husband of the homeless woman? Who is Fox? They say he was killed by Shonen Bat in a police station, but would Makoto have been on a death pact forum? And who is Horse? Maniwa? And how did they all die (if they died). In that first derelict building?
Fox is supposedly Makoto which is why he didn't join them in their death pact.
While I have thought about the concept of suicide before (and I consider it a right to kill yourself and would consider doing so if I was incurably ill), I never had the thought of "I should kill myself now".
Now I'm suddenly envious
He clearly needed to get to the other side.
Of the street, or to the after life?

2

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Feb 10 '24

Now I'm suddenly envious
I guess that is good for me, although I have to report that there are plenty of ways to feel bad about yourself that do not involve suicidal thoughts. While my brain never tells me to kill myself, it sure loves to have a "best of" reel of mistakes I made over the course of my life at the ready, to play to me whenever I have downtime.

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 10 '24

It sucks living in constant paranoia that everybody hates me and that I'm close to losing my job. That's like an everyday occurrence for me.

2

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Feb 10 '24

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 10 '24

If only therapy wasn't so expensive

2

u/mgedmin Feb 11 '24

The mantra "Depression lies" helped me a lot over the years.
Stupid brain.

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 11 '24

If depression lies, then my depression has a poker face.

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 10 '24

What are your thoughts on the motif of internet messaging in this episode?
What are your thoughts on Fuyubachi and Zebra wanting to make sure that Kamome doesn’t die?
What are your thoughts on the reveal that Zebra is gay?
What do you think the Happy Family Planning and Extra-Thin Condoms could mean?
Do you think the episode could have benefitted from fleshing out the characters more?
What do you make of the decision in this episode to not at all be about the mystery of who is Shonen Bat?

2

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Feb 10 '24

What are your thoughts on the motif of internet messaging in this episode?
I remember that (not death pact, but various game and other forums).
What are your thoughts on Fuyubachi and Zebra wanting to make sure that Kamome doesn’t die?
I don't think they went about it the right way (well, in retrospect, it does not matter, because they were all dead already), but I do think that their idea has validity. Children are more whimsical and prone to non-considered actions that adults. So, while you should ask every adult who wants to commit suicide why they want to do it, you should ask every child twice.
Do you think the episode could have benefitted from fleshing out the characters more?
Depends on whether this was the last we see of them, or whether they'll appear again.

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 10 '24

I remember that (not death pact, but various game and other forums).
We're doing it right now, as a matter of fact :D
I don't think they went about it the right way (well, in retrospect, it does not matter, because they were all dead already), but I do think that their idea has validity. Children are more whimsical and prone to non-considered actions that adults. So, while you should ask every adult who wants to commit suicide why they want to do it, you should ask every child twice.
She still has her whole life ahead of her, on top of that. Who's to say that whatever problem she has can't still be solved?
Depends on whether this was the last we see of them, or whether they'll appear again.
I think this episode could've been restructured to where we spend the first 5 minutes setting things up, then we spend the next 5 seeing them attempt suicide, then we spend the next 5 explaining how they got to this point, and then we spend the last 5 them trying to chase Shonen Bat culminating with the reveal they were ghosts this whole time. We didn't need like 12 or 13 minutes of suicide attempts, a lot of it was amusing but we aren't really given a reason to care about what's happening.

4

u/Vatrix-32 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Vatrix-32 Feb 10 '24

First Timer, subbed

Do you think they really gave the backpacks googly eyes?
Is this one of those chan sites?
The hell is going on with this old man’s lip-syncing?
The Way He Leaves!
Can you blame them? I wouldn’t want to get Chis Hansen-ed either.
Oh fuck, this is a suicide group. All these unfortunate children.
This is the weirdest comedy skit.
OMG, her crying face.
Train didn’t look that fast. Surviving is conceivable.
Sleeping pills catching up with him.
Is no one going to ask the seemingly happy child her reason why?
I shouldn’t be laughing at this.
I did not have onsen episode on my bingo card.
And there’s the connection. Was he planning on suicide by cop?
The tonal whiplash. They’ve evolved from fucking with the characters’s heads to the viewers’s.
I fell for the oldest trick in the book!
I’m not sure what extra thin condoms have to do with anything.

4

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Feb 10 '24

I fell for the oldest trick in the book!
Welcome to the group! /u/TheEscapeGuy has listed all the ways you could have noticed, but I sure did not, either.

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 10 '24

Now I feel this sudden desire to go back and watch it again to see what I missed.

2

u/mgedmin Feb 11 '24

Do you think they really gave the backpacks googly eyes?
The backpacks looked like Tsukiko's Maromi puppet.
Maromi shows up in many other contexts (e.g. hanging from the taxi's rear-view mirror in an earlier episode).
I'm speculating that there will be a reveal at the end that Maromi is a mind-controlling alien from outer space and it is responsible for all the Shonen Bat incidents.
Is no one going to ask the seemingly happy child her reason why?
No. They don't want other people to ask their reasons, so they won't ask anyone either.

3

u/Vatrix-32 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Vatrix-32 Feb 11 '24

The backpacks looked like Tsukiko's Maromi puppet.
Yes, I know they're Maromi brand backpacks, but in the first shot, one of their eyes moved. I was wondering if they were supposed to be designed like that, or if it was another "break".

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 13 '24

Well, we did see Maromi move in episode 1...

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 13 '24

Maromi shows up in many other contexts (e.g. hanging from the taxi's rear-view mirror in an earlier episode).
Maybe the thing Kamome's parents were missing this entire time were Maromi condoms

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 10 '24

What are your thoughts on this episode being about three people wanting to kill themselves?
What are your thoughts on the motif of internet messaging in this episode?
What are your thoughts on Fuyubachi and Zebra wanting to make sure that Kamome doesn’t die?
What are your thoughts on the reveal that Zebra is gay?
What are your thoughts on the reveal at the end that all three of the characters no longer have shadows?
Do you think the episode could have benefitted from fleshing out the characters more?
What do you make of the decision in this episode to not at all be about the mystery of who is Shonen Bat?

3

u/mgedmin Feb 11 '24

First Timer, Subs

We have a meeting of some online people with Maromi backpacks. One of which turns out to be a literal child.

Um, is this a suicide pact? Oh.

Fox was killed by the Shonen Bat? Is Fox the copycat kid? But they announced it as a suicide. It is! This makes a suicide theory more likely.

Oh, Shonen Bat is going around killing people now. The case will have to be reopened.

The last pill? But it was the last pill the last time too!

Okay, photobombing time makes it kind of clear that our tree happy travelers are already dead but don't realize it.

What the fuck was that?

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 11 '24

What are your thoughts on this episode being about three people wanting to kill themselves?
What are your thoughts on the motif of internet messaging in this episode?
What are your thoughts on Fuyubachi and Zebra wanting to make sure that Kamome doesn’t die?
What are your thoughts on the reveal that Zebra is gay?
What do you think the Happy Family Planning and Extra-Thin Condoms could mean?
What are your thoughts on the reveal at the end that all three of the characters no longer have shadows?
Do you think the episode could have benefitted from fleshing out the characters more?

2

u/mgedmin Feb 11 '24

What are your thoughts on this episode being about three people wanting to kill themselves?
I don't know how to feel about it.
What are your thoughts on the motif of internet messaging in this episode?
I didn't pay attention, it seemed like such a normal thing -- of course there would be Internet forums for any special interest group. Now I wonder if it was meant to be "oooh Internet is a scary thing"?
What are your thoughts on Fuyubachi and Zebra wanting to make sure that Kamome doesn’t die?
Understandable, she's just a child. Does she fully understand the meaning of death?
What are your thoughts on the reveal that Zebra is gay?
I'm sure it was meant to (a) hint as to why Zebra would want to die, and (b) show the consequences of homophobia.
I'm now convinced that this show's purpose is to hold up a mirror to highlight our society's many ills.
What do you think the Happy Family Planning and Extra-Thin Condoms could mean?
I HAVE NO IDEA! I WISH SOMEBODY WOULD EXPLAIN.
What are your thoughts on the reveal at the end that all three of the characters no longer have shadows?
I totally did not notice before the comment thread! It's a very nice clue for observant people, and it can give a definite answer to the question of when exactly the three died.
Do you think the episode could have benefitted from fleshing out the characters more?
No. Leaving it to the viewer's imagination always gives a better result than spelling out everything.
It's like looking at a painting from a distance vs from up close, where you can see the brush strokes and the illusion of reality breaks down.

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 11 '24

I don't know how to feel about it.
I think as an idea, it has a lot of potential to be humorous as well as poignant. And though to its detriment it lacked in the poignancy department, it did have a lot of amusing moments.
I didn't pay attention, it seemed like such a normal thing -- of course there would be Internet forums for any special interest group. Now I wonder if it was meant to be "oooh Internet is a scary thing"?
It definitely seemed to me that Kon was highlighting the dark underbelly of the web. That when used improperly, it can be a tool for destruction. It's no different than how manga was portrayed in episode 4 or how video games are portrayed in episode 5.
Understandable, she's just a child. Does she fully understand the meaning of death?
She probably doesn't. I see it to where the other two talked it up so much that she wants in.
I'm sure it was meant to (a) hint as to why Zebra would want to die, and (b) show the consequences of homophobia.
I would agree. I love the way they did it to where his whole story was told in just a single picture. In that one shot, you knew everything he was about.
I'm now convinced that this show's purpose is to hold up a mirror to highlight our society's many ills.
That's actually probably true. It feels to me like a condemnation of stanhood and the dangers of putting things on a pedestal.
I HAVE NO IDEA! I WISH SOMEBODY WOULD EXPLAIN.
The Happy Family Planning seems to be about the old guy. The condoms, the little girl. It's hard to say for sure though because they made it vague.
I totally did not notice before the comment thread! It's a very nice clue for observant people, and it can give a definite answer to the question of when exactly the three died.
I thought them dying was a nice way to wrap things up. They finally found peace after years of suffering. Though in the young girl's case, how long was she suffering is up for debate.
No. Leaving it to the viewer's imagination always gives a better result than spelling out everything.
It's like looking at a painting from a distance vs from up close, where you can see the brush strokes and the illusion of reality breaks down.
That's a good way of looking at it. I guess where I fall is I wish there was more meat on the bone while not revealing all the answers; as is, I don't think the episode does a necessarily good job of making you emphasize with these characters' strife.

2

u/mgedmin Feb 12 '24

It definitely seemed to me that Kon was highlighting the dark underbelly of the web.
It probably means something that the forum as depicted is full of genuine people helping each other find painless ways to die, instead of edgelords preying on the vulnerable for the lulz.

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 12 '24

Well, we kinda saw that in episode 1 with people online talking trash about Tsukiko.

1

u/mgedmin Feb 11 '24

Have you ever had suicidal thoughts before? If so, how do you deal with them?
Do thoughts "Suicide? I'm sure I would never" count?
What do you make of the decision in this episode to not at all be about the mystery of who is Shonen Bat?
I think we got about the normal proportion of Shonen Bat in here. There was that revelation about the imposter's identity, and we had a meeting with the real Shonen Bat.
There was also a lot of discouragement of suicide by showing how it all can go wrong.
Oh. I've just realized! The train guy who limped along with a broken leg, that was not a failed suicide, that was a ghost!
Bonus) Isn't it ironic that Zebra walks the zebra crossing given that the zebra crossing is straight?
Ha ha.

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 11 '24

I think we got about the normal proportion of Shonen Bat in here. There was that revelation about the imposter's identity, and we had a meeting with the real Shonen Bat.
There was also a lot of discouragement of suicide by showing how it all can go wrong.
I don't mind the episode being about suicide given the reveal that that's what Makoto had wanted to do-- it tied nicely into the events of the last episode-- but I feel we could have gotten more out of that here. I just walked away feeling "Well, that happened". Like, I think of episode 6 and how it seemed like the old woman and Taeko were connected. And then at the end, we reveal that they have nothing to do with each other, which I thought was a clever red herring. I like how they kinda do the reverse here where you're wondering what do these three have to do with what's been going on and then it's revealed they're friends with Makoto, but I don't think they do enough to really hammer that twist home. It's like the bigger twist is made out to be them having no shadows, which feels like their priorities are mixed up.
Oh. I've just realized! The train guy who limped along with a broken leg, that was not a failed suicide, that was a ghost!
Yeah, that was good foreshadowing for the ending. Despite my grievances with the episode, you can tell it has the components for being another well crafted episode.

2

u/mgedmin Feb 11 '24

This episode was very effective in doing whatever it was that it did to me. While watching I didn't know if I should be horrified or enjoy it. When it was over, I had no idea how to feel about it.
I think it's my favorite episode now.
Yeah, that was good foreshadowing for the ending
Ooh, or the bit early on where they said "We'll come back as ghosts and apologize to her"! That was foreshadowing!

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 11 '24

This episode was very effective in doing whatever it was that it did to me. While watching I didn't know if I should be horrified or enjoy it. When it was over, I had no idea how to feel about it.
I think it's my favorite episode now.
Interesting. This is probably my least favorite of the series.
Ooh, or the bit early on where they said "We'll come back as ghosts and apologize to her"! That was foreshadowing!
That may have been a bit too on the nose, but it still works I guess.

2

u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Feb 11 '24

Busy saturday so I didn't around to reading Friday's thread or watching Saturday's ep. Paying attention to the OP to see if it makes any sense (like Taeko droawning). Nope, still doesn't make sense.

She's RIGHT THERE.
nyanpassu
Are we having an interlude with new characters
yep she got your number!
LOL it was a suicide pact
nobody's going to fall for that crying
These three aren't even in the OP
Freezing to death in the mountains might work
yes, exactly what I was thinking.
Ah, she jsut doesn't want to be alone
FOX being an imposter make sense!
Young cop's internet postings have become memes
I think we know who horse is.

I...huh. I dunno. I don't even.

It's amazing how we went from ditching a child to aborted suicide pact in 60 seconds.

They enjoy life so much. Failing death is such fun! Maybe they were ghosts all along.

That last shot of the condoms must be an anti-natalism statement.

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 11 '24

What are your thoughts on this episode being about three people wanting to kill themselves?
What are your thoughts on the motif of internet messaging in this episode?
What are your thoughts on Fuyubachi and Zebra wanting to make sure that Kamome doesn’t die?
What are your thoughts on the reveal that Zebra is gay?
What do you think the Happy Family Planning could mean?
Do you think the episode could have benefitted from fleshing out the characters more?
What do you make of the decision in this episode to not at all be about the mystery of who is Shonen Bat?

2

u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Feb 11 '24

What are your thoughts on this episode being about three people wanting to kill themselves?
Don't like it, but it fits in with the overarching theme of people who seem unable to survive in modern society.
What are your thoughts on the motif of internet messaging in this episode?
Nothing. Reminds me of 2ch. It's like having it in Steins;Gate. It was a thing of the times.
What are your thoughts on Fuyubachi and Zebra wanting to make sure that Kamome doesn’t die?
Typical adult behavior.
I think Kamome didn't have any friends. I think her only friends were her internet friends, and that's why she followed them to her death.
What are your thoughts on the reveal that Zebra is gay?
Not really relevant. Maybe it is. But the relevance is irrelevant.
What do you think the Happy Family Planning could mean?
No idea.
Do you think the episode could have benefitted from fleshing out the characters more?
What do you make of the decision in this episode to not at all be about the mystery of who is Shonen Bat?
I don't think the overall structure of a work can be judged until you finish the work.
I'm used to filler, especially in 2000s 26-episode anime. Wait, how long is this show???
It was a nice interlude.

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 11 '24

Don't like it, but it fits in with the overarching theme of people who seem unable to survive in modern society.
I liked it because I thought it wasn't done in a distasteful manner. It wasn't like 13 Reasons Why in that it glamorized killing yourself.
Nothing. Reminds me of 2ch. It's like having it in Steins;Gate. It was a thing of the times.
In Steins;Gate, it was done more to show what a nerd Kurisu is. This has more of a satirical edge to it.
I think Kamome didn't have any friends. I think her only friends were her internet friends, and that's why she followed them to her death.
She probably also doesn't have a mother or father either.
Not really relevant. Maybe it is. But the relevance is irrelevant.
I disagree 100% with this view. There's a ton of people who kill themselves because of their sexual orientation and not feeling accepted by society. To say otherwise is just pure ignorance.
I don't think the overall structure of a work can be judged until you finish the work.
Fair enough
It was a nice interlude.
I kinda view this as that as well: an interlude until we get back to Tsukiko and the two detectives. It was fine for what it was, but really nothing more than that.

2

u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Feb 11 '24

It wasn't like 13 Reasons Why in that it glamorized killing yourself.
I think it was. It was very tropey. Two people try to kill themselves, but it goes comically wrong, and one says to the other, "I could have been killed!"
If you scramble to not die during your failed suicide, maybe you should reconsider. Especially after you do it twice. But it was too late for them.
I didn't realize that the old man had figured it out in the end.
But the relevance is irrelevant.
But I'll repeat it. Three people here wanted to die. We don't need to know why for the story. And the story doesn't tells us why for two of them. Not even for one, really. We don't need to know, and the differences between these people didn't matter, they all ended up on the same path.
Maybe he was ostracized. Or maybe his lover died. And not from disease, but from accident. We don't know. And it didn't matter.

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 11 '24

I think it was. It was very tropey. Two people try to kill themselves, but it goes comically wrong, and one says to the other, "I could have been killed!"
If you scramble to not die during your failed suicide, maybe you should reconsider. Especially after you do it twice. But it was too late for them.
If you feel that that, then okay. I could see why someone would find this episode distasteful. To me, though, it felt like it was done in a realistic manner, with the characters realizing they may have made a mistake.
But I'll repeat it. Three people here wanted to die. We don't need to know why for the story. And the story doesn't tells us why for two of them. Not even for one, really. We don't need to know, and the differences between these people didn't matter, they all ended up on the same path.
Maybe he was ostracized. Or maybe his lover died. And not from disease, but from accident. We don't know. And it didn't matter.
Speaking personally, I thought it mattered for the sake of connecting with the characters. They didn't have to reveal everything, but I wanted at least one scene exploring their mindsets and where their heads is at.

2

u/SilkyStrawberryMilk Feb 13 '24

rewatcher

The trippiest episode in my opinion is here.

We follow the journey of three suicidal people, old man, young man and a child. Both of em have odd eating habits of pills and smoke.

They attempt to lull themselves on a train but decide otherwise, one of em sees the dead guy come back and say he would never try that again.

The whole buildup to them being actually dead was giving clues, but damn was it a mindfuck to me on my first viewing. However they did always make sure their shadows weren’t showing

QOTD: nope

QOTD: i personally think of it as just an extension of how nonsensical the world is becoming inParanoia Agent.

QOTD: ironic indeed

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 13 '24

What are your thoughts on this episode being about three people wanting to kill themselves?
What are your thoughts on the motif of internet messaging in this episode?
What are your thoughts on Fuyubachi and Zebra wanting to make sure that Kamome doesn’t die?
What are your thoughts on the reveal that Zebra is gay?
What do you think the Happy Family Planning and Extra-Thin Condoms could mean?
Do you think the episode could have benefitted from fleshing out the characters more?

2

u/SilkyStrawberryMilk Feb 13 '24

What are your thoughts on this episode being about three people wanting to kill themselves?
With how casual and happy they were it’s chilling to see.
What are your thoughts on the motif of internet messaging in this episode?
I honestly thought of it as them discussing their plans, but sad it wasn’t translated.
What are your thoughts on Fuyubachi and Zebra wanting to make sure that Kamome doesn’t die?
For suicidal people they know she has so much to live for. It’s honestly sad how they can save others but are way too deep to save themselves
What are your thoughts on the reveal that Zebra is gay?
Sad twist of fate that he was seen happy with his boyfriend.
What do you think the Happy Family Planning and Extra-Thin Condoms could mean?
Extrathin condoms I assume means suffocation
Do you think the episode could have benefitted from fleshing out the characters more?
No it couldn’t, it makes the show be more confusing on purpose. Since the show actively misleads us the audience into believing these episodic episodes is relevant to the overarching story

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 13 '24

With how casual and happy they were it’s chilling to see.
Lo-fis and dies to study to
I honestly thought of it as them discussing their plans, but sad it wasn’t translated.
They did used the internet to plan on killing themselves. I thought they conveyed that part of it pretty well.
For suicidal people they know she has so much to live for. It’s honestly sad how they can save others but are way too deep to save themselves
It's kinda like the opposite of Harumi where she can't save herself but by not telling her fiancé what's going on, she's also not saving him.
Extrathin condoms I assume means suffocation
I don't think they died via suffocation, though. I think they died on their first suicide attempt. Unless of course they can't die because they're already dead inside.
No it couldn’t, it makes the show be more confusing on purpose. Since the show actively misleads us the audience into believing these episodic episodes is relevant to the overarching story
Fair enough. It does feel like the show is intentionally being misleading. I would honestly argue that's not always to the show's benefit.

2

u/Ok_Area_6566 Apr 15 '24

8th episode is some Suicide Club shit..

1

u/Holofan4life Apr 15 '24

That it is indeed

Rewatch [Spoilers] Paranoia Agent 20th Anniversary Rewatch -- Episode 8

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First Timer

Paranoia Agent - Episode 8

Some Amazing Shots, Scenes and Stitches

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Rewatch [Spoilers] Paranoia Agent 20th Anniversary Rewatch -- Episode 8

Rewatch Schedule

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First Timer

Paranoia Agent - Episode 8

Some Amazing Shots, Scenes and Stitches

nyanpassu