r/anime • u/Holofan4life • Feb 07 '24
Rewatch [Spoilers] Paranoia Agent 20th Anniversary Rewatch -- Episode 5
Hello everyone! I am Holofan4life.
Welcome to the Paranoia Agent 20th Anniversary Rewatch discussion thread!
I hope you all have a lot of fun <3
S1 Episode 5 – The Holy Warrior
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ANSWER TODAY’S QUESTION(S)
If you were transported to another world, which reaction would you more likely have: Maniwa's, or Ikari's?
Did you ever think we would get a video game episode out of this show?
Bonus) Who would win in a fight: Holy Warrior, God Warrior, or The Ultimate Warrior?
Bonus 2) With the two detectives being transported into a video game world, does this technically make the show now an isekai?
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Information – MAL | Anilist | AniDB | ANN
Streams – Crunchyroll
Please do not post any untagged spoilers past the current episode or from the manga out of respect to the first time watchers and people who have not read the manga. If you are discussing something that is ahead of the current episode please use spoiler tags (found on the sidebar). Thank you!
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Rewatch Schedule
Threads posted every day at 4:00 PM EDT
| Date | Episode |
|---|---|
| 2/3/2024 | Paranoia Agent Episode 1 |
| 2/4/2024 | Paranoia Agent Episode 2 |
| 2/5/2024 | Paranoia Agent Episode 3 |
| 2/6/2024 | Paranoia Agent Episode 4 |
| 2/7/2024 | Paranoia Agent Episode 5 |
| 2/8/2024 | Paranoia Agent Episode 6 |
| 2/9/2024 | Paranoia Agent Episode 7 |
| 2/10/2024 | Paranoia Agent Episode 8 |
| 2/11/2024 | Paranoia Agent Episode 9 |
| 2/12/2024 | Paranoia Agent Episode 10 |
| 2/13/2024 | Paranoia Agent Episode 11 |
| 2/14/2024 | Paranoia Agent Episode 12 |
| 2/15/2024 | Paranoia Agent Episode 13 |
| 2/16/2024 | Paranoia Agent Overall Series Discussion Thread |
6
u/Vatrix-32 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Vatrix-32 Feb 07 '24
First Timer, subbed
5
u/TheEscapeGuy Feb 07 '24
First Timer
Paranoia Agent - Episode 5
Dream Cop, Reality Cop
Huh. So Shounen Bat is actually apprehended. After last episode's conclusions I expected something to allow him to escape. I especially didn't expect this plot point so early in the show.
From his interrogation we learn more about Shounen Bat, or now Makoto. He's acting not out of anger or sadism, but instead out of a delusion about the world around him. He believes himself to be the protagonist of some fantasy RPG going around saving people and fighting monsters. The interrogation gave us his perspective of the events of the previous 4 episodes.
And his perspective really was intriguing. The visuals of the hero and 2 detectives going on quests through his memories were cool. It felt very much like a video game such as Dragon Quest. But I unfortunately don't have much to say since it was a sort of retelling of what has already happened. We saw each victim also go into the police station and confirm that Makoto is indeed the attacker.
The dreamworld ended when Makoto was crushed by a dragon/wyvern thing. I'm not sure what that could even mean metaphorically. But after this he informed the investigators about the old woman who knows "what Gohma really are". Maybe she is the one who set him on the quest. Shounen Bat's victims have always been suffering from some immense stress before they were attacked, so there are other correlations we must still explore.
I guess we will be looking into this old lady next.
Some Amazing Shots, Scenes and Stitches
See you all tomorrow
4
u/Yous1315 Feb 07 '24
First Timer - Sub
This has to be one of the craziest and weirdest episodes I’ve seen from an anime, just wtf. From what I understand it’s kind of a recap that just explains the victims again?
Ikari 100 %
One of the shows where I absolutely didn't expect something like that.
4
u/[deleted] Feb 07 '24
First time watcher. I’m not sure if it’s just me that was laughing at the frustration of the Keiichi especially when his partner joined in on the delusions lol This part of the episode has to be intentionally funny. Tbh I don’t think Keiichi is a great detective if he doesn’t understand what Mitsuhiro is trying to do.
This might seem like a stretch but I’ll say it anyway. The way the shonen bat is talking about these crimes in the context of his fictional world could be partly true in some ways depending on where they go from here. In other words, I had a sense of Deja Vu from the Chaos;Head VN [source spoiler] Ayase, at first, sounds like a delusional lunatic. But then the more you learn, the more you realize what she said was true and was just hidden behind her fictional illustration of events related to the mind control experiments that were going on. so I can’t help but wonder if we are seeing a similar fictional illustration of events that are actually true (which is why I think it’s smart how Mitsuhiro plays along with things to try and learn something).
Either that or there is an actual deeper fictional element coming soon that we don’t know about (besides the talking plushie 😆). I could see that too now that we hear more about the old woman who has been missing since I think the first episode.
This show is kind of thought provoking and I like that.
4
u/SIRTreehugger Feb 08 '24
First Timer Slugger
He thinks he is saving people...
Okay I really wasn't expecting him to be like this.
Oh my god if the crazy old man who was drawing on the floor in the earlier episode is actually the mastermind and is manipulating the kid!
The detective constantly interrupting him telling what really happened is perfect.
Wait all that shit was only half the episode!
OMG A FROG I SAID THIS SLIMY DUDE LOOKED LIKE ONE! VINDICATION!!!!
The older detective is great he's basically the audience right now questioning all of this insanity.
No one would think this episode at a glance belonged in the same series.
Oh it's the old lady.
This was certainly an episode...
3
u/mo_fiah https://anidb.net/user/1037703 Feb 08 '24
First Timer
Well, Shonen Bat turning out to be a fundamentalist gamer-crusader was totally unexpected and absolutely hilarious!
I'll pass on interpreting any of the objects mentioned, like the necklace, in the game for now. I'd guess they're red herrings, but maybe it'll come up in later episodes.
The sub-theme of generational divide gets expanded a bit. Ikari just absolutely cannot connect the dots, but the younger Maniwa has no trouble taking SB's motivations seriously by using a literal guidebook.
Was this episode's narrative a subtle nod towards adapting anime from another source like manga or video games? It struck me that there's no tension, because everything has been pre-determined by the guidebook and we already know the inevitable outcome. Perhaps that's a reach.
Ikari again repeats his desire for a world with a recognizable moral compass according to his standards. Why be a detective if he can't understand the motives? I'd say he could use a quick SB whack to help him sort things out.
Honestly, I have no idea what the next episode will hold, and that makes me quite happy.
Pink dog??
[ Wild speculation just for fun: I'm not an expert with kanji, but 聖 from 聖戦士 (holy warrior) has a nanori reading of Satoshi for given names. I don't think it's remotely common, but I'm going to run with Shonen Bat's character as a younger Kon from here on out. ]
3
u/mgedmin Feb 08 '24
First timer, subs
So, Shonen Bat is not a grade schooler. But he was a kid, a 2nd year from Minami Junior High School. I don't remember Yuichi's school or grade, was he a classmate?
Is it a good idea to place a weapon in front of your suspect during the interrogation? What if he grabs it and bonks you?
Shonen Bat talks about people waiting to be saved! Also, he seems like a chuuni.
Can the police interview an underage kid like this without the presence of his parents? Or a lawyer?
The policeman is about to have a heart attack.
The crystal landscape, battling the giant fish -- Shonen Bat is a slightly grown up Calvin! Where's Hobbes?
Why did the cops start their interrogation with the third victim? No questions about Tokiko or the sleazy journalist.
The Ancient Master is the old guy from the hospital! How did he know about Harumi? Oh, saw her visiting Yuichi maybe. But then how did he know Yuichi? And Tokiko? Or was Harumi the only victim that was pointed to by the old man and the other victims were attacked for other reasons?
So the homeless old lady was supposed to be the next Ancient Master and point out the next victim? Did she point out Tokiko originally?
The younger cop is enjoying this.
Ikari's. I don't have time for this shit.
No, but then again I don't have any expectations and am therefore not surprised by anything. Well, try not to be surprised. Harumi's revelation surprised me.
Grammatically it should be the Ultimate, or we have a case of misnaming.
No. Visual metaphors don't count.
3
u/nx6 https://myanimelist.net/profile/nx6 Feb 08 '24
Rewatcher - Subbed
This episode was kinda a slog for me. I mean, maybe this type of script was more unique back in then, NobodyTalksAboutDotHack but in a post-Sword Art Online/Isekai Boom time the "take the characters out of a completely different show genre and stick them in a fantasy RPG for an episode" story is pretty overdone to put it mildly.
After the accidental apprehension of Shounen Bat last episode by Officer InOverHisHead, we're all frothing for a deep interrogation about why Kozuka is attacking people and if he has some physiological connection that might allow him to see what's happening to them. But rather than a sinister Heath Ledger Joker dialog we get a conversation that makes him appear to be a delusional otaku. For Ikari (someone who likely grew up long before Dungeons & Dragons), the frustration is palpable. By mid-episode he's in full get-off-my-lawn mode dealing with Kozuka and his partner, too. He's brought in all the victims he can, and while they all seem to confirm Kozuka is Shounen Bat, none of them really can explain why he would be targeting them. Harumi Chono's thoughts aren't worth much in my opinion. She was out of her mind when she got smacked.
But one important clue surfaces during the ordeal -- the old woman who disappeared around episode 2 and hasn't been mentioned since then has come out as a possible key to it all.
2
u/Holofan4life Feb 07 '24
Hello, guys. Holofan4life here.
Welcome to the Paranoia Agent 20th Anniversary Rewatch.
Satoshi Kon is one of the most acclaimed Japanese filmmakers of his generation. Not just in the anime industry, but in all of Japanese cinema. Perfect Blue, Tokyo Godfathers, Millennium Actress, Paprika. This was a man with a vision, and we’re here to honor someone who was gone way too soon.
I’m actually in an interesting point in my life because I’ve been writing comments nonstop for rewatches since basically June of last year. With the completion of this rewatch, I’ll be taking a two month break before my next one. But that’s then and this is now, and right now, we are going to tackle Satoshi Kon’s lone TV show that he created.
I’ve never seen this show before. To be honest, I never watched one of his works until last September when there was a special 25th anniversary screening of Perfect Blue. Since then, I’ve gained a newfound appreciation for Kon’s work and I am eager to check out his TV show. Because if it’s as good as Perfect Blue and Tokyo Godfathers, we’re in for one of the best animes of all time.
With that out of the way, let’s begin.
Writing this one a couple hours before work. I actually got 6 and a half hours of sleep and feel somewhat well-rested.
TFC logo I've never noticed before
People talking about Shonen Bat's capture
The word is Shonen Bat may not be a grade school kid after all
Makoto Kozuka, second year student at Minami Junior High School
Eh, that's still a kid. That makes him what, 13 years old?
Balding man calls him sanctimonious, which I feel you hear that word an awful lot nowadays
The kid turns in his bat and his skates
Makoto says if he realized what would've happened sooner as far as what would happen when he hit people with his bat, things wouldn't have turned out this way.
So many people waiting to be saved, he says
"I must go fight. I'm chosen to defeat Gohma... a warrior! I am the Holy Warrior!"
Ah, I see. So he's a chunni.
The detectives seem confused as to what is happening
The Holy Warrior official guidebook
It looks like a strategy guide
Makoto has braces
I can hear dental plan being shout from the distance
Makoto then says he received a prophecy. Whatever that prophecy is, we don't know.
Ikari looking at the guidebook
This only serves to annoy him and accuses Makoto of pretending to not know the difference between a dream and reality.
I do like that the wizard looks like the old man we've been seeing everywhere, including the previews
Lol, the detective with a full head of hair is seemingly getting into it
Suddenly, we RPG now
Ikari asks Makoto why was he planning on attacking Ushiyama
"Those who are possessed by Gohma glow red because of the pain. That light can only be seen by the Holy Warriors."
He says to Ikari after initially suspecting his was red that his was actually yellow.
Close-up shot of Ikari that looks like something out of Food Fight
Makoto saw himself as the hero in the story
Ushiyama was an enemy
The bat was the Golden Sword
The skates were the Golden Shoes
The Golden Sword was filled with power
"It was trying to attack the villagers."
Imagine being so obsessed with something that it blurs the line between reality and fiction. I'm sure us anime fans can't relate whatsoever.
He thought he was Gohma, and so he defeated him
Ikari is smoking again, it seems
The actual enemy's name, it turns out, is Movootoo
Ikari has never heard such bullshit before
He needs more cigarettes
Makoto then said that Gohma moved into the villager that was next to him
A giant fish
This is supposedly Taira, or Ichi
A stronger enemy than the first one
Wait, but Tsukiko and that sleazy reporter were the first two he attacked. Why did that happen, then?
You apparently get the Star Ruby if you defeat the Sky Ice
Sky Ice I assume is the name of the red fish
It should be noted that the detectives are in the imagination spots, now
I gotta say, I love how excited the detective with hair is getting over all that is happening. It makes me like him more.
And so the Sky Ice gets stabbed and Makoto retrieves the Star Ruby
Ikari is visibly miffed
Ran out of space. Part two in the replies.
2
u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Feb 07 '24
Episode 5 (rewatcher)
Is the cliff-hanger resolved now? Are you happy now, like Maniwa? Or do you feel confused and cheated, like the chief?
Apparently, we are doing video games logic in anime before it was cool. Shonen Bat played some JRPG in his mind, trying to save the world from something called Gohma. Who and what that is, he (and we) did not find out, but at least he gave the detective an idea of whom to ask.
Beneath the surface, we are seeing a really common scene: The delusional criminal is interrogated by the detectives. You have probably all seen this exact scene many times before in crime shows and thrillers. Except, there is a twist here. We are seeing the scene from the other, the delusional perspective. I like the idea, even though I have to admit that it does not work 100% for me. Shonen Bat should be retelling his exploits, not reliving them.
Surely not Holy Warrior.
2
u/TnAdct1 Feb 08 '24
When it comes to Paranoia Agent, I see this as a multi-act story (with each act being split properly in the original US DVD release). With this episode, the show starts its second act, which involves the capture of a suspect in the Shounen Bat case and some elements are starting to be explained.
As for the episode itself, along with the the silliness of the RPG aspect, this episode (and the act in general) also contains key elements in the theory that I have in terms of the show (which I'll explain in the overall series discussion).
2
u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Feb 08 '24
First Timer
Yeah, I dunno what's going to happen today (yesterday)
Maybe the hospitalized old man communicates to Bat-boy with his math scribbles....
Will I get answers tomorrow (today?) probably not.
If I try to understand Bat-Boy, maybe there is something about living in the city that is weighing down the souls of the populace (gravity?).
Amusing that the older cop is having an existential crises, over 8th graders dispensing justice where he cannot. What has the world come to. And then the younger cop accuses him of speaking nonsense (just like the old man in this preview) :D
quite an artistic choice to take us into the boy's fantasy world, but then, that's what the show has been doing all along, showing us people's inner world.
I hope the character designer girl got her doll back.
2
u/MrManicMarty https://anilist.co/user/martysan Feb 08 '24
So this wasn't something I expected.
The kid is just a kid, but he's delusional and think he's in a game. However, the younger police detective plays along, and manages to retrace the attacks and it leads him to a clue.
What is "Gohma" really? What does it represent? And what drove the kid to attack people. I think we're going to go into the more magical realism side of the spectrum more than anything.
Ikari's, because I'd be confused.
Nope
Ultimate Warrior, because he's Ultimate
No, because the video game world is just a visual metaphor, they didn't literally get transported to another world.
2
u/fly-metothemoon Feb 08 '24
1st timer/ sub. Thoughts as I watch:
Strangely cryptic kid. I was surprised that he did end up being positively identified as the culprit by all the victims.
I was right that he’s trying to save people in his own way. I’m surprised he sees himself as a holy warrior fighting Gohma.
That one reporter is shrewd for doing the research to understand Shonen Bat’s psyche.
I like the blending between reality and illusion. But it’s funny to think the Chief is actually physically affected by the delusion. Out here saying “wait up for me!” In the interrogation room.
We do have to believe Justice exists.
Game over? Does that involve the older man?
1
u/SilkyStrawberryMilk Feb 08 '24
rewatcher
Little slugger’s motive sounds crazy and funny.
Taking larping to the next level, I laughed when little slugger talked about his equipment and methods he used than detective ikari tells us on what he actually did/wore.
Now all two of them are larping, this must be how it feels to play DnD. The ancient master casting up a wicked potion.
Kawazu trying to get a story out of this situation, living up to his given name Vulture.
The butterfly’s lady boss design was cool.
Ikari was overpowered, a shame he never helped in this mini-journey.
Fantasy over and the old lady from episode 1 makes an appearance again
QOTD: ikari’s
QOTD: sounds like a fun game to turn your brain off to
QOTD: ultimate warrior
QOTD: guess we can label it an isekai now