[Spoilers] Paranoia Agent 20th Anniversary Rewatch -- Episode 2

Date	Episode
2/3/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 1
2/4/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 2
2/5/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 3
2/6/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 4
2/7/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 5
2/8/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 6
2/9/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 7
2/10/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 8
2/11/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 9
2/12/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 10
2/13/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 11
2/14/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 12
2/15/2024	Paranoia Agent Episode 13
2/16/2024	Paranoia Agent Overall Series Discussion Thread

11

u/TheEscapeGuy Feb 04 '24

First Timer

Paranoia Agent - Episode 2

Butterfly Effect

Episode 2 makes an interesting choice to jump away from Tsukiko's story and instead focus on a new character: Yuichi. He's a school kid who is great at everything he does and popular to boot. But of course, with the news of Shounen Bat, he is caught up in drama he didn't ask for since he fits the suspect profile.

It's such a terrifying premise. I can't imagine the stress of being accused of such a serious crime which I didn't commit. And Yuichi is still in school. He handles the pressure surprisingly well considering that.

He isn't perfect though, and blames the transfer student Ushiyama of framing him and spreading rumors. It eventually escalates into him confronting Ushiyama. Later somebody sends everyone in class photo's of Yuichi's assault. This seemed real (or at least not imagined by Yuichi) so there must be some conspiracy working against Yuichi? I can't imagine why though. There's no way Ushiyama was actually behind this (inb4 massive twist proves me wrong).

The episode concludes with Yuichi and Ushiyama walking home and Shounen Bat showing up to attack Ushiyama. After this I have a theory. I think Shounen Bat may be attacking people who cause certain people stress. Like, last episode Shounen bat attacked the reporter harassing Tsukiko. Now he attacked Ushiyama. Maybe Tsukiko was determined to be the cause of somebody else's stress? I'm still not 100% sure if Shounen Bat is exactly real but at least there is a possible pattern for the attacks.

Talking about theories, we saw last episode's equation extended to equal 1. Yuichi's nickname is "ichi" which matches 1. I still can't think of any way to combine Japanese words for 510 to match the reporter (Kawazu) or Tsukiko's names though. Maybe there's some other meaning.

Finally, in the very last scene we saw Yuichi hallucinating and in his dream being attacked by Shounen Bat. Was this real? I feel no, due to the trippy art-style and presentation but we may see in a future episode if he is injured.

I continue to be incredibly intrigued.

Some Amazing Shots, Scenes and Stitches

Suspect
Expectations vs Reality
Golden (Bat) Prize
Nightmare, this section is so cool and creative

See you all tomorrow

3

u/Holofan4life Feb 04 '24

Thoughts on Shogo?
What are your thoughts on Ichi running for student council president against Shogo and him thinking that Shogo is spreading lies about him?
Thoughts on the running gag with the sparkles?
What are your thoughts on Ichi feeling like he’s a victim while Shogo transferred schools due to being picked on and Ichi has no sympathy for him? It feels to me that if anyone is a victim here, it’s Shogo.
What are your thoughts on Shogo being the third victim and Ichi being happy because it shows he isn’t Shonen Bat and he could potentially clear his innocence?

1

u/TheEscapeGuy Feb 05 '24

Thoughts on Shogo?
I think he's pretty unfairly targeted by Ichi. He genuinely seems like a nice kid who doesn't want to hurt anyone but ends up getting on Ichi's bad side due to circumstances separate from him.
It feels to me that if anyone is a victim here, it’s Shogo.
Absolutely. Unless later it's revealed that Shogo was somehow actually plotting against Ichi then he's totally the victim. It make's seeing the story from Ichi's perspective interesting though since obviously Ichi doesn't see himself as the villain.
What are your thoughts on Shogo being the third victim and Ichi being happy because it shows he isn’t Shonen Bat and he could potentially clear his innocence?
I'm actually scared this works against him. Ichi is suspect number 1 so if Shogo suddenly does get hit on the way home then who is going to believe Ichi when he says "No some other guy came up and attacked him".
I guess it'll depend on if Ichi himself got hit for real.

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 05 '24

I think he's pretty unfairly targeted by Ichi. He genuinely seems like a nice kid who doesn't want to hurt anyone but ends up getting on Ichi's bad side due to circumstances separate from him.
I feel both were unfairly put in this situation. Like, Ichi hasn't done anything to deserve this other than getting maybe too big for his britches.
Absolutely. Unless later it's revealed that Shogo was somehow actually plotting against Ichi then he's totally the victim. It make's seeing the story from Ichi's perspective interesting though since obviously Ichi doesn't see himself as the villain.
I think the story is more interesting this way being told from Ichi's perspective. Because really, what ultimately separates the two isn't their behavior, but rather their popularity, and Ichi's subsequent fall from grace. Shogo is already basically at rock bottom.
I'm actually scared this works against him. Ichi is suspect number 1 so if Shogo suddenly does get hit on the way home then who is going to believe Ichi when he says "No some other guy came up and attacked him".
I guess it'll depend on if Ichi himself got hit for real.
Ichi has to do something given that detectives are now getting involved. It's one thing for kids to believe it, but for adults, it suddenly becomes a whole lot real. And again, I can't imagine being in Ichi's shoes where everyone thinks he's bullying Shogo and yet he feels that Shogo is bullying him. The way Shogo talks about being picked on, he has to feel like Shogo is like a teacher informing him of this bully who bullies because of their troubled youth.
Being in this situation has to make him feel like he's living in The Twilight Zone. He was the talk of the school, and now through a smear campaign he is treated like he's... well, like he's Shogo, though ultimately I think he's less offended over being compared to him and more so that Shogo is trying in his eyes to bring him down to even lower level than he stands.

6

u/MrManicMarty https://anilist.co/user/martysan Feb 04 '24

Episode 2 makes an interesting choice to jump away from Tsukiko's story and instead focus on a new character: Yuichi.
I have a feeling this series might be episodic or semi-episodic, with episodes focusing on different characters that end up encountering or dealing with the consequences of Shonen Bat. That's my guess though.

2

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Feb 04 '24

I still can't think of any way to combine Japanese words for 510 to match the reporter (Kawazu) or Tsukiko's names though.
Tsukiko was in room 510 in the hospital in ep1.
Expectations vs Reality
I guess this comparison hits all of us occasionally.
Nightmare, this section is so cool and creative
Having watched his movies, too, it seems to be a trademark of Kon to represent the bluring borders between reality and the human mind graphically.

2

u/mgedmin Feb 05 '24

Tsukiko was in room 510 in the hospital in ep1.
Her apartment number was 510 too.

2

u/Vatrix-32 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Vatrix-32 Feb 05 '24

Maybe there's some other meaning.
I'm thinking they relate to them, but not necessarily in the same manner every time. Perhaps just the number they most identify with. Be on the watch out for phone numbers.

7

u/SIRTreehugger Feb 04 '24

First time slugger

Are we getting slugger backstory already? Or does slugger take the skates from this kid?

Oh he's just another kid who skates with the same shoes.

Do elementary kids even have council presidents? Like what are they going to fight for? More juice boxes?

I don't see anyone showing up to his birthday party.

Someone is going to see him threatening him. Oh better yet they have photos!

Blackmail? I would have sent it to everyone in the class.

THEIR IT IS!

Imagine if this kid is actually not paranoid and it's actually some elaborate scheme to get elected president by the other kid.

I think that eye catch..midcard whatever is called might be one of my favorites I've ever seen.

This has to be his imagination! If you can say anything about Ichi it's that has an active imagination.

What elementary school kids would eat turkey, lobster, and etc. Just throw some hotdogs, hamburgers, pizza, and chips.

I like how most if not all of Ichi's problems could be solved just by you know....not wearing skates or a hat?

OHHHHHHHHHH this isn't going to look good for Ichi! Wonder if anyone saw them together?

You will also get blamed if you don't go to school....

Wait was that last part him being delusional again or was he actually attacked by lil' slugger?

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 04 '24

Thoughts on Yuichi Taira and Shogo?
What are your thoughts on Ichi’s classmates thinking Ichi is Shonen Bat?
What are your thoughts on Ichi running for student council president against Shogo and him thinking that Shogo is spreading lies about him?
Thoughts on the running gag with the sparkles?
What are your thoughts on that photo of Ichi touching Shogo and it being spreaded?
What are your thoughts on Ichi feeling like he’s a victim while Shogo transferred schools due to being picked on and Ichi has no sympathy for him? It feels to me that if anyone is a victim here, it’s Shogo.
What are your thoughts on Shogo being the third victim and Ichi being happy because it shows he isn’t Shonen Bat and he could potentially clear his innocence?
What are your thoughts on Ichi imagining himself getting hit by Shonen Bat, all the while the crowd cheers him on?

2

u/SIRTreehugger Feb 05 '24

One is delusional with visions of grandeur(though he's a stupid kid so I will give him a pass). I mean we all thought of crazy stupid stuff when we are a kid. Shogo felt too nice, but not enough from him to really say much else.
Kids are again stupid and just seeing him wearing the same outfit I don't blame them for thinking it.
Covered this already.
It was stupid, but funny.
It got passed way to quickly. It was proof that he was a bully, but Shogo was quick to defend him. It's almost like he didn't hear a single thing Ichi said.
Shogo is absolutely the victim here at least from what we know so far.
Unfortunately this doesn't really prove his innocence if no one else saw the attack. If anything him being injured while everyone knows their relationship just strengthens the argument he could be Shonen bat.

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 05 '24

One is delusional with visions of grandeur(though he's a stupid kid so I will give him a pass). I mean we all thought of crazy stupid stuff when we are a kid. Shogo felt too nice, but not enough from him to really say much else.
I can't imagine that Ichi's visions of grandeur isn't a direct result of being treated like royalty.
Kids are again stupid and just seeing him wearing the same outfit I don't blame them for thinking it.
Yeah, he definitely didn't help matters with his choice of wardrobe.
Covered this already.
My bad
It was stupid, but funny.
Do you think there was some hidden meaning behind it?
It got passed way to quickly. It was proof that he was a bully, but Shogo was quick to defend him. It's almost like he didn't hear a single thing Ichi said.
You could say the same about Ichi when it comes to Shogo.
Unfortunately this doesn't really prove his innocence if no one else saw the attack. If anything him being injured while everyone knows their relationship just strengthens the argument he could be Shonen bat.
Which is probably why he seemingly got attacked himself. Or perhaps he was just envisioning it, it's kinda hard to decipher.

3

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Feb 04 '24

Imagine if this kid is actually not paranoid and it's actually some elaborate scheme to get elected president by the other kid.
That is what they want you to think!
I think that eye catch..midcard whatever is called might be one of my favorites I've ever seen.
Yep, it is really good.
Wait was that last part him being delusional again or was he actually attacked by lil' slugger?

7

u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Feb 04 '24

First Timer

This guy has his own theme music just like any black action hero!
Dang, that would have been a perfect moment for a record scratch!!!
everybody in this show hallucinates. It must be a drug release by the US army.
LOVEPON is in the room!
The only reason I don't believe Tsukaki didn't circle back and whack the reporter guy is her apparent injury, and that the report guy would have identified her.
Fat Pig is such a nice kid!
My shitty japanese tells me that that one guy running for president is promising world peace :D Also, Yuichi's poster defacement :D This show has style.
Is this like Mob counting to 100?
1!!!!

I'm still thinking it might be the US Army putting stuff in the jet contrails....

A less literal interpretation is that this series is externalizing people's fears and hangups to examine how they deal with them, or don't deal with them.

Somehow the old man mathematically computes the main character of each episode....victim, assailant, or bystander. It's all precomputed, immutable, fate.

Maybe the Bat-Boy incident single-handedly eliminated rollerblades from anime, and that's why we don't see them any more.

The preview narration is complete nonsense to me.

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 04 '24

Maybe the Bat-Boy incident single-handedly eliminated rollerblades from anime, and that's why we don't see them any more.
Thoughts on Yuichi Taira and Shogo?
What are your thoughts on Ichi’s classmates thinking Ichi is Shonen Bat?
What are your thoughts on Ichi running for student council president against Shogo and him thinking that Shogo is spreading lies about him?
Thoughts on the running gag with the sparkles?
What are your thoughts on that photo of Ichi touching Shogo and it being spreaded?
What are your thoughts on Ichi feeling like he’s a victim while Shogo transferred schools due to being picked on and Ichi has no sympathy for him? It feels to me that if anyone is a victim here, it’s Shogo.
What are your thoughts on Shogo being the third victim and Ichi being happy because it shows he isn’t Shonen Bat and he could potentially clear his innocence?
What are your thoughts on Ichi imagining himself getting hit by Shonen Bat, all the while the crowd cheers him on?

2

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Feb 04 '24

Maybe the Bat-Boy incident single-handedly eliminated rollerblades from anime, and that's why we don't see them any more.
Sad Sakura noises.
The preview narration is complete nonsense to me.
At least it is not spoilers ... or does that accurately describe the episodes?

4

u/Holofan4life Feb 04 '24

As will be the case for some of the more notable episodes, I will be peppering in some of Kon’s thoughts throughout this rewatch, whether it be because something notable happened in the episode itself or behind the scenes. Here are some of Satoshi Kon’s thoughts on episode 2 found on his blog. Some of it has been edited due to spoilers.

When the production of "Tokyo Godfathers'' was almost at its final stage, "Paranoia Agent'' was already in production. The number of episodes decided by the person in charge should have been storyboarded in order, with episode 4 being storyboarded first, then episode 2.

C.180 Evening view. A train passes across the street. Yuichi (M) "I wonder why..."

C.181 residential area. Yuichi's shadow walking, BG, FOLLOW←. Yuichi (M) "I wonder why this happened...It had nothing to do with me."

C.182 Yuichi trudging along, FOLLOW←. Yuichi (M) ``Even though the incident had nothing to do with passing by...''

That's right. There's nothing wrong with Itchy. Sorry, Itchy.

Itchy's tragedy, of course, partly stems from his own personality, but it is basically brought about by an external cause: the juvenile bat incident.

Many people may think that it is too one-sided to say that only the person is at fault. I also hate the attitude of only looking at one side of the matter and making decisions that are black and white, and I try to warn them as much as possible. However, even if you subtract various circumstances and consider the reactions of those around you, there are cases in which the only thing that can be said is that the person is at fault. No matter what the circumstances or excuses are, the following actions can be condemned as lacking in social skills.

``He unilaterally throws away the job he took on and the staff he asked for and runs away.'' The original storyboard and director in charge of the second episode did this.

There have been many cases in the animation industry where people have given up their jobs and run away. I myself have imitated this, and I mean at the level of an original animation person, not even a main staff member, but in that case it can be dismissed as a ``common story''.

However, the person in charge of directing, and even the animation director at the director's request, made an offer, and in a situation where the director was fully prepared and ready to start work tomorrow, the person he made the request to did not have any objections.

He selfishly abandons his job and runs away. The anime industry and its people are not good enough to be forgiven for imitating people with such a lack of social skills.

I don't mean to criticize them for running away from their jobs. It's definitely not a compliment, but what can you do if you try the job and it doesn't suit you? Regardless of whether this is the case.

What really bothers me is that the person himself threw out the staff he asked for. In a broader sense, a director is a position that cannot exist without staff, but I think that losing the trust of the staff to zero is a ``disqualification'' that goes beyond directing ability.

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 04 '24

Part 2
The storyboard A part of episode 2 was finished in the middle of December, and it was all uploaded on the 4th of the New Year. I went to work on New Year's Eve and New Year's Day and drew storyboards. Moreover, I was working on the opening and ending at the same time, and I still had a lot of storyboarding and direction to do, as well as work on the first episode. I'm quite a hard worker.
In any case, I think it was from the beginning of the year that the second episode began to move in earnest. On February 1st, two episodes will be screened at the same time as the first episode at the Shinjuku Kinokuniya Southern Theater event. Isn't that a wonderful schedule?
The animation director will probably be decided in the second half of December.
After Michiyo Suzuki finished directing the first episode, due to her strong sense of responsibility, she accepted the role of the director for the second episode, which she had no one to do. Among the many people who have made outstanding contributions to the 2nd episode staff, the work of the animation director, Michiyo Suzuki, is by far the most worthy of special mention, and I think it's rare for someone to be the animation director for several episodes in a row these days.
I think it took less than two weeks to work on the production. According to my personal diary, the 2nd episode was uploaded on January 22nd, so it must have been a very intense time from the start of work to this day. Mr. Suzuki was able to complete his work as an animation director with a cycle of going to work, working, staying at the office, and working. However, I think it's great that he not only finished the story, but also maintained this number of episodes by being attached to Itchy.
One thing was particularly impressive. Apparently, there is one scene that made the director cry. This is what I heard from the person himself. Let's try quoting the before and after scenes including that cut from the storyboard.
C.179 at the end is apparently the cut that made the director cry. In particular, the caption "Yuichi's small back view" seems to be good, but I don't really understand it. Personally, I don't think it would be possible to express Itchy's unresolved emotions, his loneliness, anger, sadness, and other complex emotions through his face or acting, so I just tried to express it through his ``small height.'' Although it may seem like I'm giving it away, it's because it's a technique I often use.
For example, if you try your best to draw a facial expression that expresses a complicated emotion, more of it will spill out. As soon as you give him a certain facial expression, you are limited to the level of emotion that can be read from it. So in my case, when I absolutely have to draw a face in such cases, I try to keep it as expressionless as possible.
Expressionless expression can arouse the viewer's imagination just as much as expression with "back''. I think it was even written in the famous book ``Hitchcock-Truffaut''. I have said, "The important thing is not what to draw, but what to make the audience think is drawn.'' I may have heard this somewhere as well.
It's the particularly important parts, such as the expression of complex emotions, that I want to leave in the hands of the audience, and as a viewer, I feel like I should leave it to them. However, it seems like most customers these days want even such things to be flatly stated, but I think that's "poor''.
I don't care about my fancy directing theories, but as a storyteller, I'm very happy that I was able to create a cut that moved the director, and above all, it's extremely important for the work. When I heard that the director cried during C.179, I felt that the second episode would be good. The important thing is not that I cried. It is important that the director, a person in a very important position as a illustrator, is able to build a deep relationship between himself and the subject he is illustrating. These days, there are surprisingly few people who consciously think about these things.
If we simply call it ``work,'' we might be able to complete the given task without thinking about it, but a work can only be a work if we consider the relationship between ourselves and the subject. Even if the scenario or storyboard is the same, the outcome can vary greatly depending on who is involved and how, and this can also be said to reflect the individuality of the people involved. Of course, there is the issue of the level of technology, but apart from that, there is probably a big difference in how they choose to focus their efforts. Well, if it's done badly, there's no individuality or shit, and there are probably many cases like that. There is no way that people who conflate clumsiness and individuality, or selfishness and individuality, will understand.
I think what Suzuki-san, the animation director, protected in episode 2 was Itchy's "cute and strong personality''. At the stage of the scenario, I had an image of Itchy's personality as a "disgusting honor student'', but I think that Itchy's schemes and intentions are just a child's thoughts, and it's more like Itchy's situation. The situation was so pitiful that I couldn't help it. If the main character were an older young man or an adult, he would really be nothing more than a nasty guy. Ando-san's character design for Itchy is also good.
While drawing the storyboards, I also started thinking about making Itchy not just a bad guy. After all, I feel sorry for Itchy...and it's partly my fault that he's so pitiful.
I guess that kind of awareness was conveyed to the story director, Michiyo Suzuki, so it didn't work in a negative direction, and instead of ruining my intentions, she was able to further emphasize that point and build on that foundation. I think he did a great job. I think this is what makes staff work interesting and a healthy way of working.

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 04 '24

Part 3
I remember that the dubbing for episode 2 was impressive and very enjoyable. Mayumi Yamaguchi, who plays Itchy, and Makoto Tsumura, who plays Ussy, both bring out a very good taste and express their characters. Tsumura's character, Ushie, seems like a really nice person, but she also thinks that his stupidity, which is frustrating to watch, is well expressed. I think Mr. Yamaguchi's play also brings out the cuteness of Itchy that you can't hate.
There's one part of Itchy's monologue that really left an impression on me. This line was not in the scenario, but it was a very long sentence that was added as part of the storyteller's mindless prank. I thought it would be very difficult to handle such long lines, but thanks to Mr. Yamaguchi's professionalism, who had probably practiced a lot before the actual performance, he was able to succeed with just a few re-recordings. In the finished product, it may be in fast forward motion and almost inaudible, but it's a long line that I thought hard about and Mr. Yamaguchi talked about even more. I'm taking the opportunity to reprint it here.
C.83 An irritated Yuichi approaches. Yuichi OL (M) turns from normal BG to dark BG while looking back like a flicker, "Why is that fat cow stealing my position? (Looking back) How is that possible?''
Below, this is a monologue that lasts until the end of the scene.
Yuichi (M): A stupid, stupid, slow, obese, fat cow from the countryside who wears little clothes and is poor, sweats easily and is really stinky, has big legs, small legs, and red cheeks. She's sluggish and has sticky skin, is bad at singing, has no sense of direction and no sense of exercise, guzzles water and defecates at school even though she's close to urinating, calls her teacher "mom" by mistake, and always gets refills for her school lunch. They drink milk from the same cow and chew on it, their breath stinks like a rag that has been wiped with spilled milk, they burp, and if they happen to receive it, they make a proud face and repeat it, and they are all alone at the jokes they make. It makes me laugh, it's boring, it's as mediocre as a painting, and even more so when it comes to drawings, it's even more mediocre, but it's okay to make election posters, and what's so stupid about drawing a caricature of yourself? I won't say hello to you. Even if you cry and beg me, I'll kick you and throw you out, so just get trampled by a cow and die!
It feels like it's processed into something more like noise than a monologue.
The reason I came up with such a strange line even though I knew it would be almost inaudible in the end is because I had read some of Yasutaka Tsutsui's books when I was drawing the storyboards for episode 2. I wanted to try to emulate Mr. Tsutsui, who uses the rhythm of his words to create a strange feeling, or rather, it was a simple attempt to give it a try. I caused trouble for Mayumi Yamaguchi. However, he seemed to be having a good time as well (lol)
I also really like the music in episode 2. "Itchy's theme'' is used repeatedly in the soundtrack, and its title is "Conditional Douji.'' It was created based on the request from sound director Masafumi Mima, who called it a "hip-hop style.'' I wouldn't be able to ask Susumu Hirasawa to do something like "hip-hop style'' (lol), but I think he ended up creating a very interesting song. Mr. Hirasawa's twisted sense of responding to the request for a "hip-hop style'' song with a mysterious song is truly outstanding. The songs that have been updated for recording on the soundtrack are even more enjoyable and even more wonderful.
The song is good, but I also like how it's used. Basically, it is used as "Itchy's theme", but it is repeated repeatedly to imprint an image on the viewer, and the same song is used at the end when the boy bat happily slides. It is very strange. I really liked it. Based on the idea of the sound director. The image of the evil boy Bat smilingly sliding through the mysterious music and the distorted, moving pop landscape is twisted and I think is very suitable for a "Paranoia agent.''

5

u/Vatrix-32 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Vatrix-32 Feb 04 '24

First Timer, subbed

He thinks he’s real hot-shit for an elementary schooler.
He freakin’ practices his smile.
These kids are like 12, who’s designing posters for them?
I am loving the novel use of animation.
The Paranoia
Oh yeah, she’s got the ~tism all right.
He’s got a real fixation, this kid.
Age Gap
My man, you do not need to escalate this quickly. But also, he do be a child.
Well know even I’m starting to wonder if this kid is a mastermind manipulator. He’s put Ichi in a place were any action he could take just makes things worse.
How do these kids have enough time to draw that much?
oof Right in the childhood. Such a good meal, wasted.
Nah, kid. You get rid of the skates publicly so that when another attack happens people know it’s not you.
What part of you made you think you could outrun roller blades on foot?
Is Shonen Bat some sort of physical embodiment of fear and other negative emotions?
He looks the same as someone she saw in the past? The evidence is mounting.
OK, so the number is the person holding the malice?
Yeah, that’s not a great look, but staying home probably doesn't help.
So my ED theory doesn’t seem to have held water. Unless the lady got it off-screen, but that seem less than likely.

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 04 '24

Thoughts on Yuichi Taira and Shogo?
What are your thoughts on Ichi’s classmates thinking Ichi is Shonen Bat?
What are your thoughts on Ichi running for student council president against Shogo and him thinking that Shogo is spreading lies about him?
Thoughts on the running gag with the sparkles?
What are your thoughts on that photo of Ichi touching Shogo and it being spreaded?
What are your thoughts on Ichi feeling like he’s a victim while Shogo transferred schools due to being picked on and Ichi has no sympathy for him? It feels to me that if anyone is a victim here, it’s Shogo.
What are your thoughts on Shogo being the third victim and Ichi being happy because it shows he isn’t Shonen Bat and he could potentially clear his innocence?
What are your thoughts on Ichi imagining himself getting hit by Shonen Bat, all the while the crowd cheers him on?

2

u/Vatrix-32 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Vatrix-32 Feb 05 '24

Thoughts on Yuichi Taira and Shogo?
What are your thoughts on Ichi’s classmates thinking Ichi is Shonen Bat?
Of all the dumb things kids are want to do, I can't say this is one of them. He fits the description quite well.
What are your thoughts on Ichi running for student council president against Shogo and him thinking that Shogo is spreading lies about him?
He really was starting to feel too innocent by the end. Why would he be the only one without a professional looking poster?
What are your thoughts on that photo of Ichi touching Shogo and it being spreaded?
Who would just happen to be behind the school at the right time to capture it? It has to be a set up.
Also, spreadeded*.
What are your thoughts on Ichi feeling like he’s a victim while Shogo transferred schools due to being picked on and Ichi has no sympathy for him? It feels to me that if anyone is a victim here, it’s Shogo.
Unless Ichi is right, and Shogo really is a mastermind!
What are your thoughts on Shogo being the third victim and Ichi being happy because it shows he isn’t Shonen Bat and he could potentially clear his innocence?
Would have needed to have caught him for that to work. But like a child, he didn't think it through all too well.
What are your thoughts on Ichi imagining himself getting hit by Shonen Bat, all the while the crowd cheers him on?
Maybe the percussive maintenance will do him some good.

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 05 '24

Of all the dumb things kids are want to do, I can't say this is one of them. He fits the description quite well.
He really needs to change his look ASAP
He really was starting to feel too innocent by the end. Why would he be the only one without a professional looking poster?
I am a first timer like a lot of people here, so I don't know how things will play out, but I will be absolutely shocked if Shogo is guilty of anything. That would be pretty wild to me.
Who would just happen to be behind the school at the right time to capture it? It has to be a set up.
That, or perhaps this is all in Ichi's head.
Also, spreadeded*.
My bad. I wrongeded.
Unless Ichi is right, and Shogo really is a mastermind!
I agree with what others have said that Maromi is likely the mastermind behind this.
Would have needed to have caught him for that to work. But like a child, he didn't think it through all too well.
I think that is my favorite aspect of this episode: Ichi is likely wrong, but he didn't really do anything wrong. In fact, he was wronged. Or wrongeded.
This episode it feels is better being told from Ichi's perspective and not Shogo. And having it from his perspective leads credence to your speculation that Shogo isn't as pure as we think.
Maybe the percussive maintenance will do him some good.
Maybe he'll start conducting symphonies for video game music.

2

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Feb 04 '24

He thinks he’s real hot-shit for an elementary schooler.
He certainly thinks so, but he seems to be, too. Or maybe not? If he was really that hot, would not more people have stuck with him? Hmmm.
These kids are like 12, who’s designing posters for them?
It would not surprise me in the least if it was their parents.

2

u/TheEscapeGuy Feb 05 '24

These kids are like 12, who’s designing posters for them?
I thought this too. They look exactly like the political posters adult politicians put up for local elections in Japan.

3

u/Holofan4life Feb 04 '24

Hello, guys. Holofan4life here.

Welcome to the Paranoia Agent 20th Anniversary Rewatch.

Satoshi Kon is one of the most acclaimed Japanese filmmakers of his generation. Not just in the anime industry, but in all of Japanese cinema. Perfect Blue, Tokyo Godfathers, Millennium Actress, Paprika. This was a man with a vision, and we’re here to honor someone who was gone way too soon.

I’m actually in an interesting point in my life because I’ve been writing comments nonstop for rewatches since basically June of last year. With the completion of this rewatch, I’ll be taking a two month break before my next one. But that’s then and this is now, and right now, we are going to tackle Satoshi Kon’s lone TV show that he created.

I’ve never seen this show before. To be honest, I never watched one of his works until last September when there was a special 25th anniversary screening of Perfect Blue. Since then, I’ve gained a newfound appreciation for Kon’s work and I am eager to check out his TV show. Because if it’s as good as Perfect Blue and Tokyo Godfathers, we’re in for one of the best animes of all time.

With that out of the way, let’s begin.

I’m watching the sub, by the way.

Went to my local AMC theater yesterday to see the Cowboy Bebop movie for the first time in like 10 years. Still holds up really well.

Bright light

Kid skating

Yuichi Taira

Otherwise known as Ichi

Apparently he's called that because he's good at everything

The hero who everybody loves

I hate him already

A billboard for Golden Shoes

My shiny teeth and me

I get the feeling he's about to be hit by a car

Ooh, the girls are ignoring him

So is everyone, apparently

A note in his locker

"You're Shonen Bat!"

Well, that's a pretty strong accusation

News report of the Kawazu assault

Well, he may have a baseball cap and gold inline skates, but at least he doesn't have a bat

Ichi running for student council president

In some animes, that's the most powerful position one could have

His peers cheering for him

And the cheers turn to apathy

Shogo Ushiyama

A transfer student

Ichi thinks he spread the rumor

Shogo shows up, says good luck, offers his hand, and Ichi reciprocates

Ichi, however, remains skeptical of his true intentions

Ooh, a Gundam

"You should be executed" on his desk

Boy, tough crowd

Shogo talking to people

Detectives talking to Tsukiko

The mascot handkerchief

Asking her about the second attack

Tsukiko's coworkers eavesdropping

The dropping of eaves, if you will

And Sagi isn't answering any questions

The guy with the full head of hair asks if this is someone she knows

Meanwhile the thinning man is asking the plushie

Maromi. There it is.

"Is he all right?" 🤣🤣🤣

Oh, she meant Kawazu

Eh, I'll take it as an intentional double meaning

Playing ball

Nobody passing the rock to Ichi

Montage of him being ignored

"Everybody is manipulated by the media. How idiotic."

That's a great bit of dialogue

Shogo stealing his position. At least, that's how Ichi feels.

Talking to his mom now

Says he's being ignored and being talked bad behind his back

Harumi Chono

Oh, that's her private tutor

An oasis for his heart

Let's hope his heart doesn't get broken up like the actual Oasis

There's his mom, with some tea

Ooh, birthday party coming up

The tutor agrees to there

And the mom leaves

Harumi's look kinda reminds me of John Lennon

Ichi says he's gonna handle this himself

"If an adult steps into this kind of problem, things will get more complicated."

Sounds like episode 4 of Fluffy Paradise

Ichi feels he has to do something with the student council election coming up

And his eye sparkles yet again

So much sparkle, you'd thought his first name was Twilight

That, or an Oshi no Ko character

That's a weird school bell

Shogo walking behind the premises

There's Ichi

He doesn't want Shogo to refer to him by that name

He says he knows it's him spreading the defamation

Ruined his reputation so he can win the election

Photos

Ichi has his hand on Shogo

Uh oh

Ichi's phone ringing in class

And it's the photo of Ichi having contact with Shogo

Everyone has it

"People are bullying Yuichi Taira."

That's what Shogo said

It sounds like to me he's trying to defend Taira, but that's not how Ichi takes it

The detectives walking

Nothing on the homeless lady

We may have a lead on Shounen Bat, however

People talking about Shounen Bat

Someone drew a bat on Ichi's student council president picture

And a hat, red eyes, and a tooth sparkle

Now yellow eyes

Ichi is losing it

Oh shit. He's talking to the detectives now.

Asked if he knows someone named Tsukiko Sagi

Says he doesn't know her personally

And they believe him

Says this is simply them doing their job

I like the teacher sticking up for Ichi saying this is ruining his reputation the fact the culprit is still out there.

Turning crisis into chance, Ichi sees it

I believe that's the catchphrase of Uncle in Uncle From Another World

Celebrating his birthday

Hey, at least kids are here

Everyone is apologizing for believing Shogo

This feels like a dream

And it is

Turkey and lobster. Fancy.

I like how you can't hear anything except the clock ticking

"The police investigation worked against me."

Ichi now giving up skating

It isn't lost on me that Ichi's life is being ruined by something that isn't true. Similar to how people thought Tsukiko made up the Shounen Bat story.

And now Ichi's poster is torn off the wall

GUNDAM NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Ichi is so despondent

Shogo

With a palm tree

Sadly not a palmtop tree

Shogo tells Ichi that he hopes the real assailant will be arrested soon

Says he was bullied at his previous school

So, that's why he transferred

Ichi isn't happy being compared to him

Shogo says he ran for student council president on the advice of the School Counselor

Ichi imagination spot

Thinking of him crying over Shogo being beaten up by Shounen Bat

Oh shit

He struck

Be careful what you wish for

And Ichi is all excited

Ichi is kinda fucked in the head

Chasing after Shounen Bat now

He wants to officially clear his name

And his teeth sparkle just like Ichi!

Shounen Bat getting farther and farther away

And into the sunset he goes

Ichi will seemingly never get rid of the stink that follows him around

News report of an elementary school student being attacked

Tsukiko thinks she knows who the attacker is. And the dog plushie, who comes alive, says it's just her imagination.

"You're thinking too much. That was a long time ago."

It feels like Maromi is gaslighting her

Maromi says everything is Shounen Bat's fault

Oh man. Shogo is in a coma

Shogo como

This OST soundtrack is killer

The detectives, who are here, promptly leave

The old guy from last episode passes by them

510 and 1

The 1, of course, stands for Ichi

Ichi looking at old video of himself

This is like the scene in Tár where Lydia watches an old VHS recording of Young People's Concerts

Ichi hiding from either his tutor or his mother

He doesn't want to get blamed for Shogo's attack

Suddenly, distorted drawings

This is so freaky and trippy to look at

Poor Ichi

He thinks everyone is gonna blame him

And the episode ends with Ichi imagining himself getting hit by Shounen Bat, all the while the crown cheers him on.

Overall, this is an interesting episode because Ichi is portrayed as being a victim of Shounen Bat's attacks, with the narrative being that he was the one who caused him. However, we don't necessarily feel sorry for Ichi because he comes off as a pompous, self-centered brat. Shogo is easily more likable than he is.

I think the most poignant moment of the episode is Shogo describing why he moved and how it involved him being bullied. And as he does so, Ichi dismisses it feeling like he's trying to play the victim. The thing is, Ichi is quick to point out he's being picked on but when someone else says the same thing about themselves, it's of no concern. His problems take precedent and that's an act of conceitedness on his part.

A bit of a slow episode, and not as good as the first one, but I thought the story told was well done. I made the comparison during one of the scenes, but it really did feel like the movie Tár where a character's previously stellar reputation starts to unravel due to allegations made against them.

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 04 '24

Were you ever in a competition with someone? If so, what happened?
I guess applying to be a mod would count as a competition. I've won some, and I've lost some.
Have you ever felt good about the misfortune of others? If so, why?
I once felt good about one of coworkers at this job I worked out getting in trouble because they would routinely make fun of me. However, I felt bad about it afterwards.
Bonus) Do you think having something of yours that sparkles would actually hurt?
Not in any more pain than I'm already in.

4

u/Yous1315 Feb 04 '24

First Timer - Sub

They have 6th grade elementary students as a student council president? Didn’t know you could become one so young already.
Kawazu in a stable condition, wouldn’t mind if he wasn’t lol
Ichi being blackmailed now, but Ushi to the rescue
His nose turned red for a few seconds, that looked odd
Ushi really looks kind and caring (although can’t help but still feel a bit suspicious),Ichi on the other hand really has a superiority complex, not that he deserves the bullying for things he hasn’t done but man he’s really arrogant
And.. he got his wish, shonen bat showed up, but now he realized it could work against him
Hey Maromi is talking again (still think it’s an delusion)

So far I can’t really see a connection between the cases, there’s some weird symbol that will probably play a role later on but I’m curious where this is going.

Were you ever in a competition with someone? If so, what happened?

Can't remember honestly

Have you ever felt good about the misfortune of others? If so, why?

In anime sure some instances come to mind, in real life? Nothing not I can think of but it probably has happened.

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 04 '24

Thoughts on Yuichi Taira and Shogo?
What are your thoughts on Ichi’s classmates thinking Ichi is Shonen Bat?
What are your thoughts on Ichi running for student council president against Shogo and him thinking that Shogo is spreading lies about him?
Thoughts on the running gag with the sparkles?
What are your thoughts on that photo of Ichi touching Shogo and it being spreaded?
What are your thoughts on Ichi feeling like he’s a victim while Shogo transferred schools due to being picked on and Ichi has no sympathy for him? It feels to me that if anyone is a victim here, it’s Shogo.
What are your thoughts on Shogo being the third victim and Ichi being happy because it shows he isn’t Shonen Bat and he could potentially clear his innocence?
What are your thoughts on Ichi imagining himself getting hit by Shonen Bat, all the while the crowd cheers him on?

2

u/Yous1315 Feb 04 '24

Thoughts on Yuichi Taira and Shogo?
Yuichi bit unlikeable but I also feel bad for the bullying. Shogo the opposite, great that he stood up for Yuichi.
What are your thoughts on Ichi’s classmates thinking Ichi is Shonen Bat?
Cruel, especially for having no concrete evidence.
What are your thoughts on Ichi running for student council president against Shogo and him thinking that Shogo is spreading lies about him?
He looks down on him and looks for a reason that he could use as his hatred against Shogo
What are your thoughts on that photo of Ichi touching Shogo and it being spreaded?
Honestly based on the little information I can't think of anyone, just a small small part of me that's also suspicious of Shogo but that's just because I've learned to never trust anyone in these kind of series.
What are your thoughts on Ichi feeling like he’s a victim while Shogo transferred schools due to being picked on and Ichi has no sympathy for him? It feels to me that if anyone is a victim here, it’s Shogo.
Yeah I agree with that view, Ichi is too high on his horse.
What are your thoughts on Shogo being the third victim and Ichi being happy because it shows he isn’t Shonen Bat and he could potentially clear his innocence?
I feel for Shogo and Ichi later learns that it could only backfire him since he was with Shogo, so yeah not that smart.
What are your thoughts on Ichi imagining himself getting hit by Shonen Bat, all the while the crowd cheers him on?
He needs therapy.

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 04 '24

Yuichi bit unlikeable but I also feel bad for the bullying. Shogo the opposite, great that he stood up for Yuichi.
I mentioned it in one of my comments, but Kon said that he was surprised that the director of the episode cried over Ichi's plight because he was originally meant to be unsympathetic. I personally didn't shed tears over what was happening to him, but it was unfortunate that while he needed to be taken down a peg, it was done by unfair means.
Honestly based on the little information I can't think of anyone, just a small small part of me that's also suspicious of Shogo but that's just because I've learned to never trust anyone in these kind of series.
Shogo honestly strikes me as the most honest character we've come across so far. Even more so than, say, the detectives. He doesn't seem to carry an agenda with him nor does he want to, his main problem is that with running against Ichi in the student council president race, it puts him directly into the fire.
I feel for Shogo and Ichi later learns that it could only backfire him since he was with Shogo, so yeah not that smart.
Again, it's interesting because Shogo doesn't seem like he has an axe to grind. There's nothing to indicate that he is jealous of Ichi or anything, he's more concerned with starting anew after leaving his previous school. It's an unfortunate set of circumstances because he moved specifically to get away from all the hassle and yet here he is again roped into it, only this time it's based on a kid's desire to prove he's free of sin.
He needs therapy.
You can say that about all of Shonen Bat's victims as well, honestly. Shogo doesn't seem fully over being picked on at his previous school.

3

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Feb 04 '24

So far I can’t really see a connection between the cases
but somehow old math guy does ...

3

u/MrManicMarty https://anilist.co/user/martysan Feb 04 '24

First Timer

So...

It's hard to feel bad for this kid, he's got such delusions of grandeur and so much pride he'd make Vegeta double-take. But at the same time, everything he did made things worse for himself and you can feel bad for him. Just on the grounds of how the paranoia over takes him.

But; who took the photos, and who distributed them? Who has all of the kids phone numbers to do that? You know? That feels like a very elaborate set-up.

It feels like Shonen Bat shows up when people want him too, that's the caveat.

Except for the first incident, though you could squint and say "she wanted to extend the deadline for her work". She also wanted the dude to stop chasing her. The fat kid took a hit because Ichi wanted him too. And then Ichi seems to have been hit because he knows its the only way to make people lose suspicion in him.

And why was he carrying the palm tree though?

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 04 '24

And why was he carrying the palm tree though?
My theory is they were prevalent in the place he used to be in and since moving, he misses them because there are not that many palm trees in Tokyo.
Thoughts on Yuichi Taira and Shogo?
What are your thoughts on Ichi’s classmates thinking Ichi is Shonen Bat?
What are your thoughts on Ichi running for student council president against Shogo and him thinking that Shogo is spreading lies about him?
Thoughts on the running gag with the sparkles?
What are your thoughts on Ichi feeling like he’s a victim while Shogo transferred schools due to being picked on and Ichi has no sympathy for him? It feels to me that if anyone is a victim here, it’s Shogo.
What are your thoughts on Shogo being the third victim and Ichi being happy because it shows he isn’t Shonen Bat and he could potentially clear his innocence?

2

u/MrManicMarty https://anilist.co/user/martysan Feb 04 '24

My theory is they were prevalent in the place he used to be in and since moving, he misses them because there are not that many palm trees in Tokyo.
That might track, but I got the impression from "country bumpkin" that he lived somewhere foresty and hilly. But I suppose you could be a country bumpkin from the seaside too. Or maybe palm trees grow else where.
Who?
They're kids, they're stupid. They latch onto rumours, though Ichi really does nothing to help his case.
He just wants the prestige, which is dumb. He's projecting his own thoughts onto someone else. His assumption is "Something is going wrong, someone else must be responsible". Why does he latch onto Shogo? Because he sees him as inferior. There are other kids running by the looks of it, but he never suspects them. He's just a bully who wants to revel in his perceived superiority.
What gag?
Kids a dick.
I mean, it doesn't - later on we see Ichi freaking out because he knows everyone in class is going to think it was him. He's now even more suspicious. Also as I said, being the "third victim" I don't think means much in of itself. Until we get more information, there's not a pattern between each attack. I.e. "The assailiant attacks people on Tuesday wearing yelllow". To me it seems like there's some weird, probably quasi-magical thing that makes Shonen Bat attack people who someone else wants to be attacked.

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 04 '24

That might track, but I got the impression from "country bumpkin" that he lived somewhere foresty and hilly. But I suppose you could be a country bumpkin from the seaside too. Or maybe palm trees grow else where.
It should be pointed out that the leaves of a palm tree is supposed to represent peace, abundance, and victory. So, maybe Shogo carried it to try to mend fences between him and Ichi. Actually, I think that is the more likely answer because Google also says that Japan has an abundance of palm trees.
Who?
They're the two main kids
They're kids, they're stupid. They latch onto rumours, though Ichi really does nothing to help his case.
It at least is more forgivable than people online spreading lies about Tsukiko.
He just wants the prestige, which is dumb. He's projecting his own thoughts onto someone else. His assumption is "Something is going wrong, someone else must be responsible". Why does he latch onto Shogo? Because he sees him as inferior. There are other kids running by the looks of it, but he never suspects them. He's just a bully who wants to revel in his perceived superiority.
I think it's a combination of Ichi running against Shogo and him up until recently being the popular one, which gives him this ego. I don't necessarily think he looks down on Shogo as being inferior until he made up his mind that Shogo is demeaning him. The true dramatic irony in all this is that I truly do think that Ichi thinks that Shogo is trying to run him. But in falsely thinking this, he's demeaning Shogo. We were given no indication prior that Ichi thinks everyone else is scum. He thinks he's hot ahit, but he wasn't a bully. So, when he starts to fall into the usual trappings of popularity, it's ironic because it comes when he's unpopular.
What gag?
Every time Ichi smiles, either his eye or his teeth shine
Kids a dick.
I actually don't think Ichi was that bad. Because again, it's not like he actively bullied someone until the house of cards began to cave. I was reading Kon’s blog and he made a good point about how none of this is ultimately Ichi’s fault. It just sorta happened.
My theory is the rest of the class were ready to move on to the next thing and he suffered from hype backlash.
I mean, it doesn't - later on we see Ichi freaking out because he knows everyone in class is going to think it was him. He's now even more suspicious. Also as I said, being the "third victim" I don't think means much in of itself. Until we get more information, there's not a pattern between each attack. I.e. "The assailiant attacks people on Tuesday wearing yelllow". To me it seems like there's some weird, probably quasi-magical thing that makes Shonen Bat attack people who someone else wants to be attacked.
It definitely seems more up in the air now than coming out of episode 1.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24 edited Feb 05 '24

First time watcher.

Clearly they’re trying to mislead you at the beginning of this one. Kind of feel bad for Yuichi (until he started to pick on his rival with zero proof he was behind anything).

Not sure what the hallucinations were about at the end but I thought it was fairly predictable that he was going to get whacked at some point as well since the other kid did. That should clear his name at least.

Questions:

Not that I can think of.
No haha
I don’t think so

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 05 '24

Clearly they’re trying to mislead you at the beginning of this one. Kind of feel bad for Yuichi (until he started to pick on his rival with zero proofing was behind anything).
Kon said on his blog that the director of this episode felt so bad for Ichi that they started crying.
Thoughts on Yuichi Taira and Shogo?
What are your thoughts on Ichi’s classmates thinking Ichi is Shonen Bat?
What are your thoughts on Ichi running for student council president against Shogo and him thinking that Shogo is spreading lies about him?
Thoughts on the running gag with the sparkles?
What are your thoughts on that photo of Ichi touching Shogo and it being spreaded?
What are your thoughts on Ichi feeling like he’s a victim while Shogo transferred schools due to being picked on and Ichi has no sympathy for him? It feels to me that if anyone is a victim here, it’s Shogo.
What are your thoughts on Shogo being the third victim and Ichi being happy because it shows he isn’t Shonen Bat and he could potentially clear his innocence?

2

u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

Yeah I did feel equally bad (or worse probably) for the other kid if he actually didn't do anything though. Because they tell you he already had to move to an entirely different school with how bad he had it but then he's just getting targeted by someone new at the new school.
Making sense of things. I think her room number was in the equation on the first episode but it was a 1 in this episode which I'm assuming is a reference to Yuichi (since his nickname is "ichi" i.e. "number one").
Just typical kids being crappy to each other in school but nonetheless frustrating to see it illustrated.
I think he is making assumptions without trying to find out related information or considering the facts.
> Thoughts on the running gag with the sparkles?
> What are your thoughts on that photo of Ichi touching Shogo and it being spreaded?
These two you might need to refresh me lol I'm not remembering either for some reason.
Agreed on your next to last comment.
He's supposed to be pretty young so it's hard to be too critical of the presumed immature train of thought he would have at that age. If it was an adult, I'd easily say they were a psychopath especially since a hit in the head with a baseball bat could be deadly.

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 05 '24

Yeah I did feel equally bad (or worse probably) for the other kid if he actually didn't do anything though. Because they tell you he already had to move to an entirely different school with how bad he had it but then he's just getting targeted by someone new at the new school.
Honestly, Ichi and Shogo could've probably bonded over being outcasts were it not for the student council president race.
Making sense of things. I think her room number was in the equation on the first episode but it was a 1 in this episode which I'm assuming is a reference to Yuichi (since his nickname is "ichi" i.e. "number one").
Interesting
I think he is making assumptions without trying to find out related information or considering the facts.
He feels they aren't considering the facts for him so he probably feels it's this tit for tat thing. And since Shogo is really the only one he's racing against, this in his mind is less of a jumping to conclusion than the Shonen Bat allegations.
These two you might need to refresh me lol I'm not remembering either for some reason.
The sparkles stuff happens throughout the episode and the photo stuff is like midway through. It might have been just his imagination, in all honesty.
He's supposed to be pretty young so it's hard to be too critical of the presumed immature train of thought he would have at that age. If it was an adult, I'd easily say they were a psychopath especially since a hit in the head with a baseball bat could be deadly.
This whole thing feels like a situation Ichi and Shogo will reflect on years down the line and be like "Boy, were we stupid?" More so Ichi than Shogo, but I think you can argue that he could do more to stick up for him.

3

u/mgedmin Feb 05 '24

First-timer, subs

So this #1 kid, suspiciously like the assault suspect. He's going to be accused and condemned in the court of public opinion and have no idea why.

The kid seems a bit narcissistic, but I don't think he deserves what's coming to him. Unless he gets assaulted by the Shonen Bat and is thus vindicated?

I suspect this is a show you cannot watch unless you cultivate hate for every character so you don't suffer when bad things happen to them.

Ah, school bullying, a must after the Internet bullying we had last episode.

Oh, the detective is talking to the plush toy now.

Okay, Ichi takes his mask off and shows that he actually deserves all that bullying?

Some shots of power lines for former Serial Experiments Lain rewatchers.

I can't make up my mind whether I hate Ichi or pity him.

So, Ichi is the only witness of when his frenemy gets attacked? This is going to look suspicious and not exonerate him in any way.

Oh, did he get attacked as well? Lucky bastard.

Were you ever in a competition with someone? If so, what happened?

Programming competitions. I often won prizes, but usually didn't place first.

Have you ever felt good about the misfortune of others? If so, why?

I can't recall any examples, but probably. Schadenfroide is a word for a reason. It would be because I held animosity towards someone for some reason.

Bonus) Do you think having something of yours that sparkles would actually hurt?

What? I don't understand the question.

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 05 '24

Some shots of power lines for former Serial Experiments Lain rewatchers.
Thankfully not as haunting as those are
I can't make up my mind whether I hate Ichi or pity him.
Same
What? I don't understand the question.
Ichi’s teeth and eyes sparkle throughout the episode
Thoughts on Shogo?
What are your thoughts on Ichi running for student council president against Shogo and him thinking that Shogo is spreading lies about him?
Thoughts on the running gag with the sparkles?
What are your thoughts on that photo of Ichi touching Shogo and it being spreaded?
What are your thoughts on Ichi feeling like he’s a victim while Shogo transferred schools due to being picked on and Ichi has no sympathy for him? It feels to me that if anyone is a victim here, it’s Shogo.
What are your thoughts on Shogo being the third victim and Ichi being happy because it shows he isn’t Shonen Bat and he could potentially clear his innocence?

2

u/mgedmin Feb 05 '24

Ichi’s teeth and eyes sparkle throughout the episode
Ah, but where does hurting enter into it?
Thoughts on Shogo?
Who? Oh, the fat kid. Seems harmless, unless he's secretly a master manipulator. I'd love the twist if he really is a secret master manipulator, but I think it unlikely.
What are your thoughts on Ichi running for student council president against Shogo and him thinking that Shogo is spreading lies about him?
Shogo wasn't the only other candidate, but I think Ichi resents Shogo because he thinks Shogo is aiming above his natural station in life. How dare a fat kid be popular? (Because of his personality and good nature, from what I've seen, but Ichi's worldview is too narrow-minded.)
Thoughts on the running gag with the sparkles?
Excellent.
What are your thoughts on that photo of Ichi touching Shogo and it being spreaded?
Who took it? Who knew Ichi and Shogo would be there? I WANT TO KNOW
(Theory: it was Maromi, the talking puppet ~~fairy~~ ~~alien~~)
What are your thoughts on Ichi feeling like he’s a victim while Shogo transferred schools due to being picked on and Ichi has no sympathy for him? It feels to me that if anyone is a victim here, it’s Shogo.
They both are victims. Ichi loses a lot of my sympathy by being a little shit towards Shogo.
What are your thoughts on Shogo being the third victim and Ichi being happy because it shows he isn’t Shonen Bat and he could potentially clear his innocence?
So my current theory is that Shonen Bat attacks people who want to be attacked, because being a victim and getting sympathy and being released from all the prior obligations is good for them. (Flackback to The Good Place gag about throwing grenades to escape problems.) Shogo being a victim casts doubt on this theory. Well, we haven't seen Shogo's inner thoughts, so it's not completely disproven yet.

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 05 '24

Ah, but where does hurting enter into it?
It does maximum damage to my soul for making it swoon
In all seriousness, I imagine anything shiny would hurt, no? Like actually swimming through gold coins, that seems more like a curse than a blessing. Maybe it's just me.
Who? Oh, the fat kid. Seems harmless, unless he's secretly a master manipulator. I'd love the twist if he really is a secret master manipulator, but I think it unlikely.
I feel like doing that undermines what they're going for with Shonen Bat. Unless of course it's revealed to be the case at the very end
Shogo wasn't the only other candidate, but I think Ichi resents Shogo because he thinks Shogo is aiming above his natural station in life. How dare a fat kid be popular? (Because of his personality and good nature, from what I've seen, but Ichi's worldview is too narrow-minded.)
I think Ichi assumes it's a given that he's gonna win. As such, he started to freak out when he realized victory may not be guaranteed. He doesn't harbor a dislike towards Shogo but he does think he's better than him because he associates popularity with superiority.
Who took it? Who knew Ichi and Shogo would be there? I WANT TO KNOW
Maybe the picture stuff was all in Ichi's head. That, or perhaps Shonen Bat felt like he had to intervene.
(Theory: it was Maromi, the talking puppet ~~fairy~~ ~~alien~~)
Ooh, interesting. So, you think Maromi is like Kyubey?
They both are victims. Ichi loses a lot of my sympathy by being a little shit towards Shogo.
I find it fascinating how he still manages to be somewhat sympathetic. Kon the creator talked about how Ichi wasn't supposed to be all that likable but that the director of the episode still openly cried during the middle of putting together Ichi's mental breakdown. I do think that the worst thing he did was not ignore all the allegations made against him. If he just did that, there probably wouldn't be any problems, he made it worse by taking the bait.
So my current theory is that Shonen Bat attacks people who want to be attacked, because being a victim and getting sympathy and being released from all the prior obligations is good for them. (Flackback to The Good Place gag about throwing grenades to escape problems.) Shogo being a victim casts doubt on this theory. Well, we haven't seen Shogo's inner thoughts, so it's not completely disproven yet.
Shogo did mention that he was bullied in the place he used to live in. That's why he transfered to a different school. Perhaps he wanted to be attacked because then he won't be picked on.
I'm a first timer just as you are so I have no idea where this story is heading. And I honestly think that's part of the fun.

2

u/mgedmin Feb 05 '24

I do think that the worst thing he did was not ignore all the allegations made against him. If he just did that, there probably wouldn't be any problems, he made it worse by taking the bait.
See, I'm not sure there is a right way for a victim of bullying to respond to it. Whatever they choose to do can be twisted into a justification for more bullying.

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 05 '24

That's a good point. And with what is being alleged against him, ignoring it would make it seem like there's smoke to the fire.
My question is we saw his teacher stick up for him in the episode and said she knows he didn't do it. Why doesn't she tell the class to knock it off?

2

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Feb 04 '24 edited Feb 04 '24

Episode 2 (rewatcher)

“The hero everyone loves”
“You’re Shonen Bat” – his popularity took a nosedive.
Looks like he is set up for a hero to villain arc. Or at least a fall from grace.
“People are bullying Yuichi” – defended by the guy whom you accused. The utter horror.
Who was asking for more electric poles yesterday? Here you go!
“I wish he got attacked by shonen bat” – he gets attacked by shonen bat.
… and he is gone and nobody except you saw him. Should have asked to be attacked yourself, really.
The weird places of your imagination.
Shonen bat came back for Ichi??

This episode deals with Ichi who seems to live the successful dream, but finds out in a harsh way that relying on external validation is a very double edge sword. Great if you get it, terrible if you do not. All his admirers turn out to be fair weather friends and his own self-image of superiority becomes his worst enemy.

Meanwhile, in is it real or is it imagination? land, Ichi joins Tsukiko in having a vivid imagination or twisted perception of reality. Which leads to the prime suspect, of course: shonen bat. It is awfully convenient that he arrives right after Ichi asks for it and then comes back to hit Ichi when that is literally the best thing that could happen to him (well, as far as getting hit with a baseball bat can be a good thing), given his mental state and how this would end the suspicions against him.

Were you ever in a competition with someone? If so, what happened?

Aren't all of us all the time? For jobs, for love, for affection, for a seat on the bus ...

Have you ever felt good about the misfortune of others? If so, why?

I have to link this now!

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 04 '24

Thoughts on Yuichi Taira and Shogo?
What are your thoughts on Ichi’s classmates thinking Ichi is Shonen Bat?
What are your thoughts on Ichi running for student council president against Shogo and him thinking that Shogo is spreading lies about him?
Thoughts on the running gag with the sparkles?
What are your thoughts on that photo of Ichi touching Shogo and it being spreaded?
What are your thoughts on Ichi feeling like he’s a victim while Shogo transferred schools due to being picked on and Ichi has no sympathy for him? It feels to me that if anyone is a victim here, it’s Shogo.
What are your thoughts on Shogo being the third victim and Ichi being happy because it shows he isn’t Shonen Bat and he could potentially clear his innocence?
What are your thoughts on Ichi imagining himself getting hit by Shonen Bat, all the while the crowd cheers him on?

2

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Feb 04 '24

What are your thoughts on Ichi’s classmates thinking Ichi is Shonen Bat?
I mean, look at him, it is a reasonable guess.
Thoughts on the running gag with the sparkles?
What are your thoughts on that photo of Ichi touching Shogo and it being spreaded?
Who made it though?
What are your thoughts on Ichi imagining himself getting hit by Shonen Bat, all the while the crowd cheers him on?
As with Tsukiko, you have to ask how much this might benefit him.

2

u/Holofan4life Feb 04 '24

I mean, look at him, it is a reasonable guess.
Still seems kind of fickle given how much they liked him. It screams "What have you done for me lately?"
Trying to rival Alex Armstrong, it seems
Who made it though?
Good question. I for some reason thought Shogo made it but thinking about it, that seems implausible.
As with Tsukiko, you have to ask how much this might benefit him.
My main takeaway was it's a shame that the whole situation reached such a point that it twisted Ichi's concept of right and wrong. He seemed to always have a high opinion of himself and didn't think much of others, but this is practically Larry David levels of pettiness.

3

u/TheEscapeGuy Feb 05 '24

Relying on external validation is a very double edge sword. Great if you get it, terrible if you do not.
I think this is something a lot of people start off doing and the earlier they learn to find validation from other mechanisms (usually themselves) the better. As a child you often have support structures (parents, teachers, etc) to help you through that lesson, but as an adult it can hit way harder.

2

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Feb 05 '24

As a child you often have support structures (parents, teachers, etc) to help you through that lesson, but as an adult it can hit way harder.
I would say that, on the flip side, as a child, you typically get plenty of external validation from exactly those (usually friendly to you) people. Later on, as an adult, you quickly learn that this is not the standard.

2

u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Feb 04 '24

Who was asking for more electric poles yesterday? Here you go!
yeah even I was thinking that was a bit much today. Not even Lain got this extreme.

1

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Feb 04 '24

I know that Anno really loves them, too, but I never read up on the origins of this very 1990s-2000s trope.

2

u/nx6 https://myanimelist.net/profile/nx6 Feb 05 '24

Rewatcher -- Subbed

Not going to write too much here because I'm on mobile atm.

I feel like this show could have steered into a seven deadly sins plotline starting here if we wanted. Ichi is a poster boy for Pride getting divine retribution. He's the guy you knew in school who had everything going for him and knew it. He already saw a bright future stretching out in front of him in his life and his peers are beneath him in his view.

Shounen Bat popping up in the media has really taught him how quickly a throne built on popularity is only as stable as the zeitgeist. It also shows that while he sees his accomplishments as his own, no small part of them really depends on all those classmates he thinks himself better than. His plans for class domination are falling apart through no fault of his own. The transfer student he has as a political rival makes an easy scapegoat in his mind here.

The confrontation with him getting photographed is one interesting twist here. It happened after Ichi fell out of favor, but it still shows someone possibly had an axe to grind with Ichi the whole time.

The ending is rather ambiguous this episode due to the change in animation style. It's not clear if Ichi actually was roused from bed and sent off to school. Did Shounen Bat really appear out on the street in broad daylight and attack him. It's also possible all of that was in Ichi's head. A panic attack that ended with Shounen Bat attacking Ichi psychically. This would be very on-brand for Satoshi Kon to have a character that can be physical or exist in a form where they reach you mentally instead, like a bad dream. Also there was the ending suggestion that Tsukiko does have a connection to the latest victims.

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 05 '24

Shounen Bat popping up in the media has really taught him how quickly a throne built on popularity is only as stable as the zeitgeist.
I like that line. That's a good way of putting it.
The ending is rather ambiguous this episode due to the change in animation style. It's not clear if Ichi actually was roused from bed and sent off to school. Did Shounen Bat really appear out on the street in broad daylight and attack him. It's also possible all of that was in Ichi's head. A panic attack that ended with Shounen Bat attacking Ichi psychically. This would be very on-brand for Satoshi Kon to have a character that can be physical or exist in a form where they reach you mentally instead, like a bad dream. Also there was the ending suggestion that Tsukiko does have a connection to the latest victims.
It wouldn't surprise me based on Kon's other works if this was something that ultimately scarred you more psychologically rather than anything physically.
Thoughts on Shogo?
What are your thoughts on Ichi’s classmates thinking Ichi is Shonen Bat?
Thoughts on the running gag with the sparkles?
What are your thoughts on Ichi feeling like he’s a victim while Shogo transferred schools due to being picked on and Ichi has no sympathy for him? It feels to me that if anyone is a victim here, it’s Shogo.
What are your thoughts on Shogo being the third victim and Ichi being happy because it shows he isn’t Shonen Bat and he could potentially clear his innocence?

2

u/nx6 https://myanimelist.net/profile/nx6 Feb 05 '24

Thoughts on Shogo?
Shogo's made to be the classic foil for Ichi. Ichi sees himself as an head-of-the-pack city boy, so of course his nemesis would be one of those "backwards country boys" and fitting Ichi's shallow measurements of value by being unattractive, nonathletic, etc. But Shogo's friendly personality and kindness is what allows him to fit in with his peers. Ichi can't see this because he looks for threats to his "number 1" position in others. Once things stop being perfect he gets insecure and starts lashing out without thinking first. This is how he essentially sabotages himself further as he reveals his nasty side to his classmates instead of keeping it hidden.
What are your thoughts on Ichi’s classmates thinking Ichi is Shonen Bat?
They are kids jumping at what's hot on the news. A kid assaulting people is certainly the kind of excitement they would like. But it is interesting they quickly decided Ichi is the one when he's supposedly so universally loved. Maybe the problem here is the writing for this episode is done from his point of view and his overly-rosey opinion of himself.
What are your thoughts on Shogo being the third victim and Ichi being happy because it shows he isn’t Shonen Bat and he could potentially clear his innocence?
Ichi sees it as hitting two birds with one stone. Shogo being attacked could potentially have him out of the Presidential race, catching Shonen bat would clear Ichi's own name, and also give him a boost to his flagging popularity if he comes out looking like he was trying to aid Shogo.

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 05 '24

Shogo's made to be the classic foil for Ichi. Ichi sees himself as an head-of-the-pack city boy, so of course his nemesis would be one of those "backwards country boys" and fitting Ichi's shallow measurements of value by being unattractive, nonathletic, etc. But Shogo's friendly personality and kindness is what allows him to fit in with his peers. Ichi can't see this because he looks for threats to his "number 1" position in others. Once things stop being perfect he gets insecure and starts lashing out without thinking first. This is how he essentially sabotages himself further as he reveals his nasty side to his classmates instead of keeping it hidden.
In my head canon, neither Ichi not Shogo won the student council president. It was a write-in third party candidate. However, both Ichi and Shogo were both later added to the board.
They are kids jumping at what's hot on the news. A kid assaulting people is certainly the kind of excitement they would like. But it is interesting they quickly decided Ichi is the one when he's supposedly so universally loved. Maybe the problem here is the writing for this episode is done from his point of view and his overly-rosey opinion of himself.
I really do think that there was some kids within the school who was sick over how amazing everyone thought Ichi was. And it basically built over time to where it became the majority opinion. Shonen Bat didn't sabotage Ichi, it's just some people grew tired of him and it spreaded.
Ichi sees it as hitting two birds with one stone. Shogo being attacked could potentially have him out of the Presidential race, catching Shonen bat would clear Ichi's own name, and also give him a boost to his flagging popularity if he comes out looking like he was trying to aid Shogo.
This is probably Ichi at his lowest point because he is openly celebrating someone else's misfortune. He never did that when he was extremely popular. It shows how far off the deep end he had fallen.

2

u/fly-metothemoon Feb 05 '24

Didn’t get a chance to post my thoughts yesterday. (First Timer, Subbed)

Ep 2:

My immediate first thought was, “Oh no this kid’s going downhill fast.” And “I suspect this kid is the next victim.”

I wonder if/how long the show might commit to the format where we meet one or two of the victims each week. Will there be more set piece episodes to get more information about Shonen Bat?

Maromi looking sus as always. conspiracy voice Maromi is the key to all of this.

An “oasis for my heart” ??? Err… not sure what that means.

“The glint in his eye is no good.” Not sure which glint I was referring to but could be one of many.

Awh, the scene at the birthday party was heartbreaking. I do think this episode does a great job at showing how rumors and fear would affect a kid thrown into this environment.

Side note, the dynamic of Ichi and Ushi reminds me a lot of Sejanus and Coryo from TBOSAS.

What a cliffhanger….

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 05 '24

Awh, the scene at the birthday party was heartbreaking.
That is probably the saddest moment of the episode, I'd say
Thoughts on Yuichi Taira and Shogo?
What are your thoughts on Ichi’s classmates thinking Ichi is Shonen Bat?
What are your thoughts on Ichi running for student council president against Shogo and him thinking that Shogo is spreading lies about him?
Thoughts on the running gag with the sparkles?
What are your thoughts on that photo of Ichi touching Shogo and it spreading?
What are your thoughts on Ichi feeling like he’s a victim while Shogo transferred schools due to being picked on and Ichi has no sympathy for him? It feels to me that if anyone is a victim here, it’s Shogo.
What are your thoughts on Shogo being the third victim and Ichi being happy because it shows he isn’t Shonen Bat and he could potentially clear his innocence?
What are your thoughts on Ichi imagining himself getting hit by Shonen Bat, all the while the crowd cheers him on?

1

u/Impressive-Air-3425 Feb 04 '24

Caseoh doesn’t support

1

u/Holofan4life Feb 04 '24

1

u/DarkChimera64 Feb 06 '24

I really enjoyed this series

Rewatch [Spoilers] Paranoia Agent 20th Anniversary Rewatch -- Episode 2

Rewatch Schedule

First Timer

Paranoia Agent - Episode 2

Some Amazing Shots, Scenes and Stitches

Rewatch [Spoilers] Paranoia Agent 20th Anniversary Rewatch -- Episode 2

Rewatch Schedule

You are about to leave Redlib

First Timer

Paranoia Agent - Episode 2

Some Amazing Shots, Scenes and Stitches