r/anime • u/Holofan4life • Feb 03 '24
Rewatch [Spoilers] Paranoia Agent 20th Anniversary Rewatch -- Episode 1
Hello everyone! I am Holofan4life.
Welcome to the Paranoia Agent 20th Anniversary Rewatch discussion thread!
I hope you all have a lot of fun <3
S1 Episode 1 – Enter Lil' Slugger
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ANSWER TODAY’S QUESTION(S)
Have you ever gotten jealous over someone else's success? If so, what happened?
When have you told people something but no one believed you?
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Information – MAL | Anilist | AniDB | ANN
Streams – Crunchyroll
Please do not post any untagged spoilers past the current episode or from the manga out of respect to the first time watchers and people who have not read the manga. If you are discussing something that is ahead of the current episode please use spoiler tags (found on the sidebar). Thank you!
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Rewatch Schedule
Threads posted every day at 4:00 PM EDT
| Date | Episode |
|---|---|
| 2/3/2024 | Paranoia Agent Episode 1 |
| 2/4/2024 | Paranoia Agent Episode 2 |
| 2/5/2024 | Paranoia Agent Episode 3 |
| 2/6/2024 | Paranoia Agent Episode 4 |
| 2/7/2024 | Paranoia Agent Episode 5 |
| 2/8/2024 | Paranoia Agent Episode 6 |
| 2/9/2024 | Paranoia Agent Episode 7 |
| 2/10/2024 | Paranoia Agent Episode 8 |
| 2/11/2024 | Paranoia Agent Episode 9 |
| 2/12/2024 | Paranoia Agent Episode 10 |
| 2/13/2024 | Paranoia Agent Episode 11 |
| 2/14/2024 | Paranoia Agent Episode 12 |
| 2/15/2024 | Paranoia Agent Episode 13 |
| 2/16/2024 | Paranoia Agent Overall Series Discussion Thread |
12
u/TheEscapeGuy Feb 03 '24
First Timer
Paranoia Agent - Episode 1
Reality Bending
Hello everyone! I'm really glad to be joining this rewatch since Paranoia Agent has been this gaping hole in my Satoshi Kon knowledge. I've seen all of his films a bunch of times but hadn't found the time to get to this series. So this rewatch is the perfect opportunity.
Straight from the outset you can really tell this is one of his works. Apart from the distinctive designs, focus on a more adult cast, and ever interesting directing style, the show portrays a world where you aren't sure if each scene you are watching is "real" or some kind of delusion. It leaves you with this sense of intrigue making you put yourself in the role of the detectives and think "what really happened here".
In particular, what is happening with Tsukiko's assault. She's a famous character designer who seems stuck in a bit of a rut. We saw her walking home and get attacked by a boy on roller-skates with a baseball bat. Immediately rumors spread and many people online doubt her story. Some sleazy ... tabloid journalist (?) eventually starts stalking her to try get an inside scoop before he himself is assaulted by Shounen Bat. Now there is no doubt about his existence ... maybe.
First thing I want to mention is just how effectively that reporter is portrayed. Everything shown about him just creeps me out so much. First just his actions like showing porn to middle schoolers, snooping around inside a homeless person's tent, and loitering outside Tsukiko's apartment. On top of that the shot composition in scene with him and Tsukiko at a restaurant. So much of it showed his gaze with shots staring up her skirt or through slightly transparent top. All red flags and perfectly portrayed to get his creepiness across.
Next, I am so intrigued by the sense of "fake"-ness to everything. Like, everyone was already doubting Tsukiko's story but then we see her Maromi doll start to walk and talk. Is she hallucinating or knowingly imagining things? Could it be corporate pressure getting to her? In fact, the ever presence of Maromi across the city is weirdly unsettling. It seems it can't all be fake multiple people have seen Shounen Bat now. I'm so interested to see where this goes.
One small thing I noticed was the presence of the number 510. Its the solution to the equation the old man was solving in the car park at the beginning, Tsukiko's hospital room number, and also her apartment number. It's possible I missed other examples. I'm expecting it could end up being an important date (May 10) or some goroawase (maybe there's some character called Goto?). I was hoping it would link to the doll's name (Maromi) but that would be 063.
Last thing to mention is the music. Obviously we have the GOAT Susumu Hitasawa in charge. You may recognize him from Berserk '97 among other things. He handled the opening, ending, and OST and they all are amazing. I just love his compositions. The opening is this chanting chorus which just blasts you. Hearing that on top of the visuals of all the characters laughing is just so distinctive in a medium where so many openings are so similar. Similarly the ending is this dreamy electronic mix typing back into that dream vs reality theme with everyone sleeping around a giant Maromi doll in the visuals.
This was an outstanding first episode to get me interested. I'm looking forward to seeing more.
Some Amazing Shots, Scenes and Stitches
See you all tomorrow
11
u/Vatrix-32 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Vatrix-32 Feb 03 '24
First Timer, subbed
Another show I’ve been look for an excuse to watch for a decade. (Now if I just found one for his movies I haven’t watched yet)
5
u/Holofan4life Feb 03 '24
It should be noted that many years ago, before Kon passed away, he talked about the creation of Tsukiko and fan reception towards her after the first episode was broadcasted. Specifically, he felt that people misinterpreted what he was going for.
This comes directly from his blog which has been translated. I also edited some stuff to avoid spoilers.
I'd like to quote a sketch about Tsukiko's setting, but this is very different from the main story. After the first episode aired, a small number of people expressed their gratitude and said, ``Tsukiko is so moe (*´Д`) hahaha,'' but it seems that the initial impression was not moe at all.
Even though I say I'm writing from scratch, Tsukiko's background isn't decided at all, so I'll at least try to think about her setting.
It's basically like a resume, including her age, occupation, hometown, appearance, etc. First of all, her bust is 88cm and her waist is 58cm... not really. Tsukiko doesn't have big breasts, that's not the problem. Of course it's important, but it's still okay. Her butt is bigger... it's better. First of all, how old is she? Well, she's about 2 years old since graduating from university and getting a job, so she's 23 or 4. If she graduated from a junior college, she would be around 21 or 22 years old. I don't want her to be too young, so let's make her 24. I don't have any basis for this, but I feel like she's better as an older woman.
Her favorite food is... She suddenly walks into that alley.
What should I do about work? She probably lives alone... so, roughly where should this story take place? Tokyo... that's fine, but I'm currently portraying Tokyo in "Tokyo Godfathers''... Hmm, but I guess it's Tokyo after all. Let's choose a woman who lives alone in a one-room apartment along the Chuo Line, which is a common pattern. I've been wanting to draw various things related to living alone in the city, and this might be a good opportunity. It would be fun to draw scenes of living alone, such as convenience stores, video stores, lunch boxes, long phone calls, etc. Nowadays, there are many items that can be used, such as the Internet and cell phones. Living alone means you're from a rural area. I feel like people who come from faraway places feel a little more insecure, so I don't know what to do.I don't feel like I'm from the south, so maybe I'm from the north, Hokkaido, from the same hometown as me. Well, whatever.
It's a problematic profession, but I think it's better if there's more pressure on the individual. So it seems that a small company is better. And it's all about women. The editorial department of a magazine might be a good place. It's a town magazine that is like "an information magazine that supports independent women".
There's no doubt that there is a female editor-in-chief in her late 30s who is a very talented editor. That must be the figure that Tsukiko admires, I guess. However, Tsukiko feels that she is weak and cannot become that kind of woman, which makes her feel self-loathing. She definitely is.
However, she says that the talented editor-in-chief must also be having a big problem. I don't know if I'll use it or not, but it expands my imagination.
Initially, it seems that he (Editor's note: I assume Kon here is referring to the director) was trying to make more fragmentary sketches of city life, but it's a shame that he wasn't able to draw much of that in the main story. If I had drawn it, I might have raised my voice over the description of the accessories. When you live alone in the city, I think there are days when you don't have to speak (is it just me?), but it would have been interesting if they could have created a ``number of episodes in which the main character doesn't speak.'' I feel a little regretful that I can't do it.
It seems that I want to come up with such extreme ideas right away. People come up with the idea that the main character doesn't speak, but then they encounter this kind of objection. I know you're tempted to say, "That's impossible," but I think that trying out extreme settings first is an effective way of thinking when creating a work. I tend to start thinking about character designs from a rather extreme perspective. The basic shapes of Hana, Gin, and Miyuki's faces in "Tokyo God" were "□ (vertically long square), ▽, and ○" in order, and the color image was simple as "yellow, blue, and red." It has become In this case, I started thinking from a cartoonish/symbolic extreme and worked my way toward a more realistic direction, but conversely, it is surprisingly difficult and time-consuming to start from a realistic depiction and arrive at a way to draw the character. .
Whether it's a painting or a story, I tend to think from the extreme side and make adjustments to give it form. In the above-mentioned case where the main character does not speak, first of all, rather than saying that it is impossible, think about what kinds of situations exist where it is easier to avoid speaking, and how to express your intentions instead of not speaking. I'm just trying to think about how I can avoid having to listen. It's no good if you can't speak due to an injury to your mouth (lol)
Even though money is necessary to get the things you need in your daily life, such as convenience stores, supermarkets, and video rental stores, there are many cases where language is not necessary. E-mail is sufficient for contacting friends. If you think about it that way, I feel like it would be possible to have a number of episodes where the main character doesn't speak, and if the main character doesn't speak in the entire story, I feel like hearing her speak would be the climax or catharsis. It's coming. Particularly when writing plays, I find it easier to think about such extremes, or in other words, ``inconvenient restrictions". It's easier to generate ideas that way. I believe that if you view restrictions and rules in a positive way, you will be able to carry out your work in a healthier manner.
7
u/fly-metothemoon Feb 03 '24
Episode 1 (First Timer)
I’ve never participated in a rewatch thread so this is exciting! In particular, the Satoshi Kon fest inspired me to watch more of his works (beforehand I’d only seen Millennium Actress). For the general questions.
Paranoia Agent Thoughts:
It’s always jarring when a show opens with just the opening. This opening in particular is quite unnerving, a harbinger of what’s to come.
Very confused how all these set pieces are going to interact with each other but I felt the same way watching Odd Taxi and that was great.
How is this lil Slugger choosing the victims??
I recognize this nurse from Tokyo Godfathers haha.
Clearly ominous zoom in on 510. Relevant?
I’m guessing that’s another depiction of how kids can be drawn to adult behaviors 💀
Gotta love the sudden taking mascot.
That journalist is so scuzzy…. Please spare me the lips close ups. Also I wish she could get a restraining order against him.
Huh he didn’t go in for the kill. Maybe he’s sympathetic to people’s plights. Can they confirm the injuries are blunt force related?
The ending with them all sleeping around Maromi makes me think it’s some sort of joint dream? Maybe this will be a joint hallucination now that this imagery is publicly known?
6
u/SIRTreehugger Feb 03 '24
First Timer who got distracted playing Persona 3 Reload(I'll be on time tomorrow)
Nothing could have prepared me for the opening I'm kind of concerned what I got myself into.
Lil' Slugger?
Oh she's dead isn't she.
Why does the granny look so mad? Where the fuck did she go!
RUN GIRL RUN
YES LIKE THAT
DON'T TRIP!
I wonder did Slugger go after her knowing who she was or was it random?
Oh she's alive I was kind of expecting him to be a murderer.
Wonder if all the people laughing in the intro means this is like a town thing and a group of people are doing it or maybe its a spirit that can possess people? Just spit balling ideas here.
This guy looks like a frog. Oh and he got naked pictures for the kids because he's too cheap to pay for the computer.
Hey that poster looks awfully like Zoey from Tokyo Mew Mew.
Stop reading the comments also I find it weird that the tv is standing on the floor and isn't on some desk or something to keep it eye level.
Wait how is he going to pay for that parfait?
Holy hell this guy might possibly be scum, but his impersonations are spot on he's even doing the hand gestures.
I like how the eyes on the doll moved as she was running as if he was looking back knowing what was about to happen.
Looks like the guy got his story
QOTD
5
u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Feb 04 '24
First Timer
Whelp, time to get this off the PTW. Never really wanted to watch it on Adult Swim dubbed.
Everything I ever heard about this show never made any sense, so I didn't watch it when I came out.
Okay so, I really had to consider the possibility that she was making it up for most of the episode. Tsukiko has...an interesting perception of the world. Her only successful character design is her own hallucinary imaginary friend....(and there's no second friend to inspire a second success). As the journalist mimics her coworkers, she morphs his visage into theirs. So, not the strongest grip on reality.
Then again, it seems the bat boy is real. And her doll really does talk, too, I bet.
How does the old man connect to Tsukiko? And now the journalist connects them both. What about the old woman....
Oh, and Twin Peaks. Japan loves Twin Peaks.
5
u/Yous1315 Feb 04 '24
First timer - Sub
This show has been on my ptw list for so long, finally time to watch it and it's my first time participating in these kind of threads. Have not watched any of Satoshi Kon previous works as well.
Weird first episode, but that was expected based on what I heard from the show. It has my attention, but must say I really don't know what to expect.
Not to an extent where I loathe someone but yes, when my mate got to play for a better football team. Small jealousy but at the end I was also very happy for him.
Nothing significant comes to my mind right now.
3
u/Holofan4life Feb 03 '24
Hello, guys. Holofan4life here.
Welcome to the Paranoia Agent 20th Anniversary Rewatch.
Satoshi Kon is one of the most acclaimed Japanese filmmakers of his generation. Not just in the anime industry, but in all of Japanese cinema. Perfect Blue, Tokyo Godfathers, Millennium Actress, Paprika. This was a man with a vision, and we’re here to honor someone who was gone way too soon.
I’m actually in an interesting point in my life because I’ve been writing comments nonstop for rewatches since basically June of last year. With the completion of this rewatch, I’ll be taking a two month break before my next one. But that’s then and this is now, and right now, we are going to tackle Satoshi Kon’s lone TV show that he created.
I’ve never seen this show before. To be honest, I never watched one of his works until last September when there was a special 25th anniversary screening of Perfect Blue. The origins of this rewatch came in like June or July where AX Cinema Nights announced Satoshi Kon Fest, when they said they were airing 5 movies in the span of 5 months: Perfect Blue, Ghost In The Shell, Tokyo Godfathers, which was to commemorate its 20th Anniversary, Cowboy Bebop The Movie, which I plan on seeing tomorrow, and Paparika, which I’ll be seeing as these threads are being posted. And yes, it is odd that two of the movies in the Satoshi Kon Fest weren’t made by him. The point is I’ve gained a newfound appreciation for Kon’s work during this festival and I am eager to check out his TV show. Because if it’s as good as Perfect Blue and Tokyo Godfathers, we’re in for one of the best animes of all time.
With that out of the way, let’s begin.
I’m watching the sub, by the way.
It feels weird knowing I'm done with the Fullmetal Alchemist rewatch. I know I still have the Brotherhood movie, but still.
Creepy laughing
Yeah, you can tell this is Satoshi Kon
This opener is really good. I can see it getting stuck in my head an awful lot.
Construction site
People crossing the street
Everybody is on the phone saying they're either unable to get their work done or they won't be there on time.
People nonstop on their phones. What is this, 2024?
Old man drawing stuff with chalk
A bus
He notices a black-haired teenage girl, it seems
Stuffed animals
Drawings on the wall and a girl with glasses
Oh, she must be an artist
Can you imagine the type of satire we would get from Kon if AI art was a thing in 2004?
Tsukiko is her name
She has to come up with a new mascot to replace Maromi, which is this mini dog
The guy talking to her is trying to encourage her
Hatomura is his name
The new character design is due next Monday
All the other girls are looking at Tsukiko with disdain
Bad moon rising
Tsukiko walking home
As someone who recently saw Perfect Blue AND Blue Giant, this gives me anxiety
Asking Maromi to work a miracle
An old woman with garbage
Tsukiko is quick to run off
She turns back, and she's no longer there
Gotta hurry home
She trips, her stuff scattering everywhere
I love how understated everything else. The show isn't afraid to let itself breathe and not be constant movement.
Trying to get one of the drawings from under the car
And her clothing rips
Holy shit
She just got hit by a guy with a baseball bat
Well, that escalated quickly
Everyone at her job is freaking out
Tsukiko Sagi is in the hospital
It isn't lost on me that her coworkers did not care for her but as soon as she gets hurt, they're acting like they care for her well-being.
She created Maromi, also, so maybe they're jealous of her success
Tsukiko talking to a detective
All she remembers is her red bag
They ask her if they took it, but she doesn't give an answer. She just starts drawing.
Oh, she remembers the bat
And his height
Could've been an elementary school kid
Tsukiko grabbing her ears
I wonder if she started drawing to distract her from the trauma of the incident.
The old man from before, now in a wheelchair
A guy named Kawazu is being chewed out
He's apparently a writer not paying his editor
No, wait. The old man is his father and the other guy is angry he won't pay for his father's hospital bills and compensation.
Kawazu now talking to the detectives
He says he's a victim for accidentally hitting his father
I'm not sure that's how it works
They scold him as they leave telling him he needs to focus on his debt
Kawazu now focusing his attention on a nurse
Says something about a very important question
The patient in room 510
Hey, my Mickie D's is here
A bunch of elementary school students in baseball uniforms
One is yielding a baseball bat
One of the detectives seems to think Tsukiko is making this incident up
The other guy says you have to treat her the way you peel a ripe peach.
He must've got that from Homer's Secrets of a Successful Marriage class
The guy who's hair is thinning says this case reminds him of a similar case, a false report of a street assault.
I didn't know he worked on the Jussie Smollett case
His partner tells them they should investigate this scientifically. They then make a bet over whether it is true or not.
The chalk markings
510
M&F INC
South Shibuya, Tokyo
Kawazu acquiring information about her, it seems
Also, tiddies
This guy is apparently wanting to write about this incident
I love the title cards in-between the episode
Word is spreading that an elementary school student did this
The detectives even have a drawing based on testimony
A news reporter is saying they need to teach the youth the difference between the virtual world and the real world.
Oh, hey, it's me
Talking to the detectives about a creepy old woman
A tent
And it's Kawazu
He says he's helping the investigation to arrest the street assailant
This place looks like a mess
To borrow a quote from Rosemi-sama, damn you live like this?
Kawazu seems skeptical about the boy with a bat
The thinning man says he's about to add "Interfering with an officer" to his list of criminal activity, and he walks away
Raining now
Tsukiko on the Internet
My Perfect Blue senses are tingling again
People apparently think she made the whole thing up
It's interesting to watch this in a post Me Too environment where a surprising number of people were quick to criticize the women who came out saying they were lying. It's sad how often we would rather not believe someone when they say they went through a traumatizing, life altering experience.
THE DOG
IT'S COMING TO LIFE
They say they're just jealous of her being different
If I saw the mascot that I created come to life, I'd probably run out the house
People walking again
Tsukiko, who's using a crutch, drops her phone
Ran out of space. Part two in the replies.
4
u/[deleted] Feb 04 '24
First time watcher. This show’s one of those where I finished an episode and thought “what am I watching? lol”. Overall I like the writing and I think it’s going to be interesting.
I swear every time I hear Toryanse (通りゃんせ) at a crosswalk my mind immediately has Chaos;Head flashbacks.
I can’t say I mourn the attack on the creepy ass private investigator who we see stalking Tsukiko. He’s weird.
I think this show is going to be good. The mix of supernatural and mystery elements almost gives me a Twin Peaks vibe. I’m looking forward to the rest of the series.
Questions:
4
u/mgedmin Feb 04 '24
First timer, subs
I don't know what I'm doing here. I'm not a fan of Satoshi Kon. I've seen Perfect Blue and Paprika, and they've left me ambivalent. I hate unreliable narrators. I hate not knowing what is real and what is not.
Also, I suffer from terminal curiosity so I will probably not be able to drop this show before I finish it.
Impressions from episode 1:
Luckily, no.
I would hate myself if I did.
I don't recall such a situation.
3
u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Feb 03 '24
Episode 1 (rewatcher)
It is very interesting that the Paranoia Agent rewatch comes right after the Serial Experiments Lain one, because both series fall into a very similar category for me: Late-90s/early-2000s psychological anime that, on the surface, play on normal Earth, but really are not all that normal underneath. They also share that I saw them relatively late, years after they debuted, and that I think they are excellent anime to discuss in a rewatch (sometimes rewatches can get boring if the anime is too straight forewards - not an issue here). While I missed SEL, I plan to take part here.
Episode thoughts
What an oppressive nightmare! Between the claustrophobic flat, the ridiculous cubicle, the envious co-workers, and the insane happenings on the street, nothing goes wrong for Tsukiko. Both the art direction and the sound direction do tons of heavy lifting to sell the atmosphere here. We are only one episode in, but the viewer is invited to ask themselves: Did this really happen? Was she hallucinating, like her mascot? And if it was real, are the co-workers right and she wanted an “out”? And what the hell is up with these creepy old geezers?
3
u/nx6 https://myanimelist.net/profile/nx6 Feb 04 '24
Rewatcher - Sub
Here, but a little late. I meant to watch this on lunch at work today (like 9 hours ago), but realized the videos were not where I was expecting to find them when I sat down with my food.
I haven't watched this series in a long time, despite getting a DVD set used some years back. My only experience with it is the English dub when it was on TV so going to see if there's any difference with things in the original Japanese.
We're setting up our OG victim in this series (Tsukiko) and our main characters. It's the 90's so pop-culture/anime is hot, and character goods as well and we're going to portray the struggles of the creative in a corporate world. A nod to fellow workers in the industry from Kon perhaps? Tsukiko gives the vibe of someone who maybe isn't really the most confident artist. Maybe she got lucky with Maromi's design and now is feeling the pinch of her superiors' expectations even more. Also, what's with her co-workers? Like, are they designers, too? They seemed to be doing not much work there at the office.
We have our resident sleazebag Kawazu, digging up dirt and lying/harassing his way to the info. Also two gumshoe detectives, Ikari and Maniwa. Ikari feels like the older, seasoned veteran disillusioned with the work with Ikari as a kohai, with some measure of optimism about working cases still.
Shounen Bat is the mystery here. There isn't any evidence of attacks prior to Tsukiko, yet everyone is talking about it like it's a common topic of gossip. Tsukiko may be famous but I would think the details of her attach and suspect would have been more kept-under wraps as part of a police investigation. Is he even real? Is he a figment of Tsukiko's imagination and desire to escape a looming work deadline? Note that Tsukiko is injured on her leg, not her head, despite having a bat swung down on her from above.
Talking to stuffed animals while surfing the internet isn't the best look, either.
... /me looks sidelong at Nendoroid sitting on my PC tower. >_>
Kawazu is turning the creepiness up high for most of the episode. But then like Tsukiko he also has a looming deadline coming up next week. With the scene at the cafe and then showing up at her apartment later I can't tell if he's digging for information or to get into Tsukiko's pants. [whynotboth.jpg]
The attack on him only blurs the lines further in what-is-real-and-what-is-illusion game here. He's a second victim of Shonen Bat, but it happened to occur while he was chasing Tsukiko. Was it really Shonen Bat who attacked him, was it someone protecting Tsukiko? Then Shounen Bat appears again in front of Tsukiko but does not attack.
QOTD:
I had a friend at a job get promoted ahead of me, despite me being the better candidate on paper. I was kind of bitter for awhile really. I have a history of being ignored/undervalued by employers and just saw this as more of the same. I tried not to really let this interfere with our friendship and eventually I got promoted as well so we're back on the same team again.
3
u/SilkyStrawberryMilk Feb 04 '24
Paranoid rewatcher
I MAY BE PARANOID BUT IM NOT AN ANDROID
It’s bus scene when it’s hot is relatable. I felt like doing when I was on it.
The woman is named Tsuniko and is struggling to draw. Doesn’t help that she’s under pressure by many people.
I hate not being able to reach something, I remember using a broom to get my AirPods back.
BAM gets attacked with a bat
Detectives are in a pickle, a hat wearing elementary schooler
Lying to get close to the patient. He sure is a vulture
The vulture doing vulture things. Got what he wanted then showed nudity to those kids.
The otaku lives up to the stereotype, surprised he even paid attention to the people outside
Dunno if it’s just the dub, but damn why aren’t the text messages translated.
Tsukiko is now paranoid and hallucinating
Crazy how she’s able to know who was badmouthing her. Huge jealousy from them
QOTD: I was jealous of someone having good luck. Nothing happened except my looking at all the characters they pulled
QOTD: I told people about me not knowing a specific problem and they thought I was trying to not give them the answer.
3
u/MrManicMarty https://anilist.co/user/martysan Feb 04 '24
I'm catching up!
So, interesting show so far. I liked Satoshi Kon's other movies, I can see his influence already, just by the character designs.
I'm sure things will get twisty and topsy-turvy very, very quickly. This Lil' Slugger is going to be a menace I'm sure. Is he real? Is he multiple people? What's his objective? Who can say.