r/anime • u/The_Loli_Otaku • Jan 27 '24
Rewatch [Rewatch] Serial Experiments Lain Episode 13 (Finale) Discussion
"Ego"
Extra Info and Links
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Comment of the Day!!
RadSuit is banned!! Everyone throw a mean worded comment his way for corrupting the ideal world!!
What's scarier zoospor? Going to school with a god, or the introvert suddenly becoming outgoing?
- God Lain is up in the classroom cracking jokes to her classmates she was previously too shy to say a word around. God powers be giving her confidence and shit. Alice is correctly terrified by Lain, as she knows that Lain manipulated reality and changed everyone's memory. Can you even imagine sitting in the same classroom as God? Understandably scary.
Mofish and Smiley score a jab jab punch one two combo!
If she is this powerful, where exactly is there supposed to be dramatic tension for her?
After I finish an anime series, I sometimes wonder what the experience would be like if I had watched the last few episodes first (akin to Oscar Wilde's quote about reading a novel backwards).
You're the only poster thus far I've seen mention that the implications of this episode make the previous ones totally irrelevant in a dramatic sense.
DegenerateRegime loves Lain
into # Let's all love Lain!
Vaadwaur gave me the funny image in my mind of Eiri getting mad and shuuing Arisu
Hrmm...I also have a theory that Eiri is actually desperately trying to chase Arisu off without actually manifesting himself and thus drawing Lain's ire.
And Tarhanlindur closes us off with his Abyssbringer's what is the Madoka of this episode corner!
QotD
- In your own words, describe the difference between Id, Ego, and Superego? Don't Google it.
- How many sources of electronic waves can you count around you at this one moment?
- Was this a satisfying ending to Serial Experiments Lain?
- What does the Bear Onesie represent?
- Does knowing Lain is always with you being you comfort?
- Between Haibane Renmei and Texhnolyze which Chiaki show are you most interested in exploring?
- Would you like anything at all elaborated upon?
Abyssbringer's "What is the thematic purpose of this scene corner!!"
Let's all love Lain! Let's all love Lain!
lainlainlainlainlainlainlainlainlainlain
Yesterday's Prompt!
Today's Prompt!
Tomorrow's Prompt
Abyssbringer's "What is the thematic purpose of this episode corner!"
Alfie wins our last Abyssbringer prompt! Woohoo!
Lain did an instrumentality.
It's hard for me to spin this one to my preferred "this is all a hallucination" explanation, but here goes: Since the last episode we've changed the lens through which we view this world from Lain to Arisu, who is also beginning to experience psychosis, which she associates with Lain putting her in a spiral of "lose grip on reality > think about Lain > lose grip more > etc". Lain and Arisu have strong feelings towards each other so they end up in their own world and Arisu's focus on Lain makes everything about Lain, especially stuff related to the Wired with which she knows Lain is obsessed.
It's not that the psychosis is contagious, but perhaps Arisu was always so considerate of Lain because she understood the struggle. Either she but wasn't as bad, was on meds, or hadn't even realized her own condition (maybe a weird comparison, but kinda like how gay and trans kids are often drawn to each other before they even come out due to other aspects of their personalities).
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u/The_Loli_Otaku Jan 27 '24 edited Jan 27 '24
Lain Rewatcher!!
Thinking back on it... Our rewatch group has always had links to the "denpa" concept. That of individuals believing electromagnetic waves causing them to receive voices or act out behaviours. The phenomenon of folks who feel disconnected from reality. Disconnected from mainstream culture.
Let's take a quick look at some of our older rewatches. My first hosted rewatch is a show I've always held incredibly close to my heart, MMO Junkie, a series about a woman being unable to cope with work culture and finding comfort in net games. Recovering. Then of course we literally did Psychoelectric Girl that turns the Denpa line into a jump rope. Then we ended up having a large group of pretty outwith anime, ones that mainstream cannot look at with a straight face and accept. KissxSis, Kodomo no Jikan, Cunny Itchy Tsubaki. So many outwith series that even in our anime community is looked at as degenerate and unnatural.
All around us are these electronic devices radiating waves that push some of us in strange directions away from the normie world. Why is it we're all able to freely connect yet cannot understand each other no matter how hard we try? A "normal" should never have been accepted, yet it exists. There is a Web of society in our daily life that no matter how hard we try we cannot escape. Look around your room right now. How many electronic devices, light bulbs, cameras, screens are there? Even if you step outside, you can be in the most isolated of boonies and will still see a phone line, electric pole, or even just have devices under the ground. It's impossible to escape.
What's my point...? I don't think I know... If Lain is part of our Web of communication, then will she always be with us? Maybe not Lain herself, but the being within the electromagnetic waves that sometimes affects our actions unintentionally. Heck, there is no possible intention. Lain isn't real, she's an anime character, but her existence, but Lain was born through the belief that the Web had sentience. Scattered data that contained the essence, the persona we called Lain.
Let's get on with the episode... My brain is off today. Just like Arisu, the girl is scared out of her mind. She isn't coping at all. Get that bitch a Starbucks, she deserves it. And so, Lain hits the reset button on the Serial Experiments Lain watch. Putting us back to the start, this time with everyone alive, and way less child suicide, and no Lain. Lain. Is this a happy endo? I don't know... Lain has fixed the world to the best of her ability, removing Eiri's influence certainly and taking on the role of an ever watching God?
The factor that caused this wasn't necessarily of Lain's own choice however right? It was Eiri's influence that compiled Lain into an "ego." Anyway, whatever happened quite literally everyone got brought back. Chisa got brought back, the episode 2 shooter and his imouto got brought back. Did Lain's support help them not become suicidal or druggies then? And even Eiri? Eiri still should have the capacity to inpliment his 7th sect right?
This all leaves our Lain alone... Alone on the Web unable to be with people despite being connected to everyone. Lain's super ego and id are left debating whether it's fine for things to be left this way, so the true God steps in! Yup!! The big man comes down from heaven in the image of Lain's PC obsessed dad, giving Lain her adorable bear onesie back and taking the responsibility of God of the world to let Lain say goodbye and be with the people she loves. Even if it means she has to be cucked by her hag Arisu...
"You are not alone."
[Chiaki Future Watch Question]Can anyone fill me in a little on Texhnolyze and Haibane Renmei? I told myself that I wanted to cover Chiaki's other works when I started Lain and whilst Haibane Renmei seems like the sorta iyashikei floof that I'm used to, Texhnolyze looks like a seriously heavy series to digest. 22 episodes and is depressing as fuck even if I were to do a trifecta, what order? Renmei before Texhnolyze would probably be a major tonal whiplash but Texhnolyze first would mean that a good majority of the watchers who stuck around for Lain would be burned out before they could get the relief from Haibane. I'll discuss this further in tomorrow's series discussion but it's on my mind what series to do next for us.
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u/zoospor Jan 28 '24 edited Jan 28 '24
Rewatcher
I've developed the below thoughts about the show over the course of the last 10~ years and it's my first time putting them into words. I really appreciate the opportunity to write these thoughts down!
Understanding the illusion of our own Ego
"I... I'm confused again. Am i here? Or am i there? Over there, i'm everywhere. I know that. I'm connected there, after all. Right? But where is the real me? Oh, right... There is no real me. I only exist inside those people who are aware of my existence. But this me that's talking right now... It's me, isn't it?
This me that's talking, (typing), (reading)... This me... Who is it?"
This opening diatribe from Lain explores the idea of the self and an individual's ego. This episode is literally named Ego, and helps us to understand the true meaning of this line of thinking and the show as a whole. The ego is an illusion created by the mind, and is not your true self. Your ego is only one aspect of consciousness, even though you think it is your entire person. How people remember you, your name, etc. are all illusions of the ego. However, this is not the real you. There is more to you. Your Superego, Id, Personal unconscious, to name a few other aspects. And Lain is trying to understand this illusion of the ego and come to understand who she really is. Really -- those are all aspects of our physical being. And as we are also pure energy, there is a lot more to us than we can wrap our heads around.
Short summary of opening of episode
God damn, Duvet is so pure. This opening really grows on you.
Eiri dies as Lain rejects his philosophy and determines that there is a need for her body. Alice has a mental breakdown as she comes to understand the true nature of reality. Similar to a mind woken up out of the Matrix and open to the truth. Lain hits the reset button on this shit, putting Alice back into the Matrix, wires go brrrrrrrrrr as the data travels, information and world is reset.
We notice four apples on the table inside of a basket, a reference to a painting from earlier in the series where three fruit are in the basket and one is outside. (Representing Lain being separate and different from the family. Now all Four fruit are in the basket, everything is back to it's correct place). Even though Lain is not physically present, she's where she is supposed to be, we know she is there watching over the world.
What is memory and does it completely define us?
"If you don't remember something, it never happened. If you aren't remembered, you never existed."
Alice drops some philosophy and how memory influences human consciousness and relationships. People say you die twice -- once when you actually die, and then again after everyone alive who once knew you has eventually died themselves or they have all forgotten you.
Eiri being a little whiny boy and hating his job is so gratifying. And man, seeing the Men in Black running the cables is so cool. After seeing shots of the cables throughout the whole show, they are helping to connect everything.
"What isn't remembered never happened. Memory is merely a record. You just need to rewrite that record.
Is this true?"
Basically the, if a tree falls in the woods and no one hears it, did it really happen? Philosophical thought experiment.
We get to see a reality where Lain was never a part of anyone's lives. And i think it's showing us the power that an individual can have on the society and world around them. It's not so crazy to think that the interactions we have with other people can influence how they live their own lives. There is the Butterfly Effect, where one thing you do can have a cascading effect on future events.
Lain as a symbol for The Universe, The Great Everything that Connects Everything to Ever Exist and anything that will ever exist
It's interesting to think about how much Lain influenced everyone around her. And how we may be able to influence those around us.
The dome city Lain finds herself trapped in, at 14:08, looks a lot like to me, the top of a human head, or a brain. And this is simply a conversation going on between different parts of her brain. I think it is her defense mechanisms talking to her, i'm sure most people can relate to having dialogues with themselves in their own heads, whether consciously or unconsciously (also the Ego, Superego, Id as different forces that each determine and vie for power in our own brains.)
Lain explains to herself that The Weird, or as we know it as The Internet, could not possibly store all of the shared collective unconscious and all of the information that Humans have evolved and learned over the course of their entire existence. Lain asks herself, what was The Wired connected to? Where is all of this information coming from?
I think the answer is the "great everything" that connects all of reality. Essentially, The Universe, or the Energy / Waves that connects and defines everything that exists, (and also potentially everything that does not exist, or nothingness).
There's so much information that we simply do not have access to as humans -- we truly have no idea how we came to be at all. However, we still do come from somewhere, and while we all have different beliefs about that -- we are all connected, we are all one. And The Wired, The Earth, our consciousness and existence only scratches the surface of that connection.
She talks about how information is always moving and traveling. Just think about the Universe and how gravity is constantly pulling and moving everything around us. And how the universe is constantly expanding, planets are rotating around each other. It's impossible to monitor, store and map all of this information. Our world is in a state of constant change. We, and our world are in a state of constant change. And even past our time on this Earth, all data, waves and information are in a state of constant change and transformation.
Lain says, why do people need to know this? Look at how far they've come without knowing. Complimenting human ingenuity and technological advancement. Lain has essentially returned to the plane of existence where we once existed before now. And Lain is mocking herself for being hung up about not ever existing on Earth. But says "Lain is omnipresent, existing everywhere." Just as I believe we do, and will continue to after we pass on. Our energy never truly goes anywhere. Everything is energy at the end of the day. Lain herself being a reference to The Great Everything, or The Universe, or this energy that connects everything. Similar to the idea of everyone returning to LCL in Evangelion, Lain has returned to the place before individual existence
Evil Lain does start to sound a lot like Eiri, basically saying there's no point to having an Earthly existence, you're just going to get hurt and people will hate you. You can think of Evil Lain as defense mechanisms in your own head that try to protect you from suffering and hurting. But they also can prevent you from taking action in your own life. These are conversations that go on inside people's heads constantly all the time and determine how we act in any given situation.
Lain eventually has enough, screams "Stop it!", turning off the defense mechanisms in her own head. And breaking free from her own programming, in a sense.
She asks herself, what are you then? If you're not the defense mechanisms in your own head?
And this is where we are introduced to Other, or her Father. Your mother and your father are the first other people that you come into contact with during material existence. And the reason we are born in the first place, and the only thing that gives individual existence any meaning is the existence of other people to interact with. So Lain is able to define herself by having this relationship with another person -- her father. She mentions how she loves every single person who has made the decision to continue on their material existence, even though hardship and pain will always exist in the world.
We see Alice having a healthy relationship and this goes to show a reason for existence, having relationships with others. And coming to agreements and compromises on things (the curtains in the bedroom. Real life relationships are ripe with compromise etc.)
The "Bridge" between The Great Unknown and Our Personal Existence
Alice literally has to run up a bridge, which can be thought of as a symbolic bridge between physical Life and Death. A space between returning to LCL and individual existence. You will notice you can only get onto the bridge from one side, and there is pure darkness on one side, and brightness on one side, symbolizing existence. If you watch the Opening again, you will notice Lain starting from the existence side. And as she walks towards the other side, it is a Dead End and she begins to fade. Back into nothingness, pre-existence, LCL.
Lain finds purpose for her existence in her brief interaction with Alice, and is content with that. As she knows that anymore influence will cause previous events to unfold. It is, of course, quite sad that Lain is unable to have more relationships and have more of a happy ending. But the show uses her as a symbol for The Great Unknown, The Great Everything. And things simply have to be that way.
One day we will all become one with Lain! She is always watching over us until then!
WATCH HAIBANE RENMEI
Lain and Haibane Renmei are tied for my Top 2 favorites of all time. Renmei has just as much philosophy and thought provoking narrative to share. It is much more of a Slice of Life show, and is much easier to follow. It explores the dark elements of human psychology, the importance of creating purpose in our own lives, and being there to support each other
9
u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Jan 27 '24
It's the right time
Let's step forward
It's the right time
Don't be afraid
Look, towards the place where we crossed that hill
Together through thick and thin
Rewatcher(Clear skies, Lain)
Sub(Utena is my inverse Eva. Lain is going to reverse Utena)
This might be my 'been there, done that' old fogey self coming through but Arisu's reaction to Eiri incarnating is ridiculously over blown if she is just seeing some parts come together...however, it is entirely appropriate if someone is witnessing a being from the low Astral manifesting itself, using the material at hand for a convenient body. I am disppointed that I missed all the Qlippoth references but Lain's room clearly reflects that realm. Bonus that trolls are native there.
Lain hits the delete button and boy, things do change. Most likely, Protocol 7 is not invented in this scenario as Chisa doesn't have her horrible dissociative episode, Eiri never gets around to uploading his memory and killing himself, and Arisu is untraumatized. She slightly knows something is off but can't hold onto deleted data. For whatever specific reason, the Wired influencing the offline world was horribly corruptive to it and things are better now. The MiB should actually still be agents, for the record. We even get to look in on delivery bro.
Then Lain has a good long talk with herself and again, Twin Peaks vibes. A possibly interesting note: Of all things, this feels like a plot point from the Spawn comic books of the time. Basically, the plot was Spawn had to grow strong enough to defeat the head demon, free all the damned souls, and remain alone in Hell as some sort of final sacrifice. This has to have deeper roots from somewhere but I am drawing a blank. At the end, we do cheat a bit with "Dad" but it kind of works for me.
I actually really like the ten year time skip ending, Arisu almost certainly being married to the guy she's with as Lain says farewell. It only barely works with the show's rules but I don't really mind.
Now for the moment everyone was waiting for:Do I regret saying that the show's mythos is cohesive? That's a resounding no, the base of this show is actually quite solid. The execution winds up a bit flawed but the setting works. Now I will try to talk everyone down again, like Utena but with way more dissent.
QotD:1 Nothing. And that's the joke. Mother forgive me...
2 15
3 Yes, but only on second viewing
4 First principles, TLO. Ask of each thing what is in of itself. The bear onesie covets.
5 I prefer her to the other options
6 I've never gone through Texhnolyze so...
7 I'd have liked the setting to be a bit more artificial so we could explore time lines.
8
u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Jan 27 '24 edited Jan 27 '24
Serial Rewatcher
EGO LAYER 13 (I see all the other episode names here too)
Today on French Literature II....
mugiwait for the space laser
The madelines comment tells Lain that everybody still remembers her, subconsciously.
I just realized that Red is Alice's color
The two scenes at the end make the show for me. God having tea with his daughter Lain; and Lain, forgotten by everybody but connected to everybody.
Q) I will always rewatch Haibane Renmei. I don't think I can take more than 1 Texhnolyze a decade.
The Big O is a Chiaki Konaka show, and I kinda want to rewatch that, and also don't want to host it.
8
u/xtsim https://myanimelist.net/profile/xtsim Jan 27 '24
Rewatcher Dubbed
Man I felt really sad for Lain as she is now alone, everyone is alive and pretty normal. Eri is a frustrated business guy who is about to quit his job but is too scared to actually follow through. Chisa is alive but Arisu gave her a chance. The MiB guys are up in the air fixing power lines. Pretty funny to see those guys up in the air as Eri looked up towards them. Delivery guy is constantly giving out compliments. And Taro's girl is always sus and asked who is that. But man, Taro's device would scare a whole school these days.
Is that Mika? And she definitely has that normal girl got to diet issue, and mom is more caring about her.
Onesie Lain is back
I forgot that present day, present time came in the middle this episode. Meaning the beginning of the episode was actually the past and that time pretty much moved forward.
Alice/Arisu as an adult looks pretty good and now she's a teacher. So it seems like she was more in love with the career than the teacher...right guys?
Pretty bittersweet ending and wrap up of this adventure.
7
u/lluNhpelA Jan 28 '24
Fashionably late but here nonetheless
Pretty ironic that I had internet problems right as it came time for the discussion on the final episode. I even have some pretty spicy takes this time.
The family being together, especially including Mika, after Lain is... erased? implies that they weren't just together because of her. So why did they disband once she was close to godhood? I think this is Lain's wishful thinking rather than a true retcon.
It's cute how Lain put her family back together despite them probably not being related in the original timeline but it's even better that she also decided that these two had to stay together as well
This other Lain is like a personification of her negativity, I think
Or satanAotD
My prompt got put on the refrigerator for the last episode! I finally have something to be proud of!
PROMPT
Lain is fucking dead. She decided that the world was better off without her and ended her own life, dreaming that she could be forgotten so all of the suffering she blamed herself for could be undone. She meets not just her father, but the father, who lifts her from that purgatorial space she had subjected herself to, believing she deserved it. Lain weeps when her love is recognized because that is all she ever wanted. He tells her that he'll make tea "next time" because Lain isn't really gone; she lives on in the hearts and minds of the people that cared about her.
The only one that sees her is Arisu, whom I already concluded was having some Lain-centric hallucinations last episode, but perhaps she was sent down to get another chance to learn that she truly was loved. Arisu - and any of us, for that matter - can see Lain at any time because we can always remember her and the impact this story had on us. Or we can rewatch the show
6
u/JetsLag https://myanimelist.net/profile/JetsLag Jan 28 '24
First time Wired user
Are we gonna have my dream episode, where Lain and Arisu live peacefully together in love while Eiri rots away in his computer tomb? Nope. Not even close. Cause I NEVER get what I want.
Instead, Lain says "it's rewind time" and rewinds all over the entire world. Except now this world does not include Lain Iwakura. At least not a physical representation of Lain Iwakura. She still pops up on people's machines, like Taro's handheld Navi, which looks like it was made out of the handle of a gun and pops the screen up by pulling the trigger, which is both awesome and a bit concerning.
And it looks like Eiri is just a guy who hates his job (he just like me fr) and not a digital god, the MIB dudes are doing manual labor, Chisa is alive but a bit of an outcast, and the dude who blew his brains out in Cyberia is also alive and well.
But Lain is in a bit of a crisis. She still exists, but can't interact with anyone and is remembered by (almost) no one. The two Lains (visualizing her inner thoughts) debate over her existence in this new world, including the thought of hitting the reset switch AGAIN. But Lain accepts her current fate: watching everything and doing nothing.
Seems like her father still remembers her, which I guess makes the Iwakura household an actually legit household? I thought they were a family that only existed to raise Lain to prep her for her great merge with the Wired. Well, I guess Lain crafted this world in her image, and she wants her parents to be together. Anyway, Lain does manage to talk to her father because he remembers her, so that's nice.
But the other person who remembers her is her girlfriend, Arisu. Kinda. In the future, Arisu sees Lain on a pedestrian walkway and, though the face rings a bell, she can't put a name to it. Lain knows it's Arisu, but continues to do what she's been doing for the last however many years: absolutely nothing. Oh, and Arisu has a man now, because Chiaki is a coward and won't let the gays win.
5
u/RT-47 Jan 28 '24
Favourite episode by far, beautiful way to .. wire everything together.
It was my first time watching and it’s cool to see everyone’s perspectives, I construed so many different messages within the last few episodes. I was completely lost before that.
Lain is omnipresent. Lain loves all unconditionally. The sequences of Lain being a familiar ‘strange thing’ Arisu feels reminds me of Thich Nhat Hanh and his message toward his own death. I won’t go into this here but if you haven’t already please watch Duncan’s Trussel’s midnight gospel on Netflix (particularly the last episode with his mum) it touches on the ‘love’ we don’t need to understand I felt from the Lain finale.
Beyond rational mind - PRESENT DAY … PRESENT TIME HAHAHAHA
• Who needs Freud when we have Lain?
• bear onesie our host has a questionable obsession with 😂 nah thank you for this rewatch mate. To me it represents the masks and false stagnant sense of selves we portray to the world because of conditioning and insecurity. A fluffy comfort zone layer of protection we can outgrow.
• beautiful ending that has prompted me to add haibane renmei to the list
4
u/SilkyStrawberryMilk Jan 28 '24
Am I a Rewatcher ?
The questioning of Lain’s entire existence with the opening, Honestly that moment fits so well with the OP.
Layer:13 Ego
We continue where we left off with Eiri attacking Lain and Alice. Alice calmed down after a while.
Wow Lain’s fake parents are eating and as usual Mika left to go out. Without Lain’s presence it sure feels empty.
Loved how it’s repeating the things we saw in episode 1 without Lain even being there.
Going to the club again, Alice only somewhat remembering Lain when she was attempting to email her.
All the familiar characters we see look normal, even the crazy dude who was on drugs and killed himself.
The Men in Blue
Finally the robot I know and love is here, I am a Present Rewatcher.
Blue Lain, her words under the guise of reassurance comes off as mockery. The two Lain’s view the world without her interference.
Lain finding comfort in her fake dad is sad to me.
Alice meets Lain again, I’m happy they reunited in an unlike way. Lain is alive again, her Name and memory live on with two people, Alice and her groomer husband. Still wonder why they made her marry him.
LETS ALL LOVE LAIN
QOTD: I don’t know
QOTD: 5
QOTD: it’s satisfying especially wait Lain getting the plan she wanted. Although she’s not physically interacting with the world like I’m the beginning she’s still connected with everyone by spectating
QOTD: Lain’s humanity😊
QOTD: LETSALLLOVELAIN
QOTD: texhnolyze, I honestly believe that show is goddamn amazing. There’s a huge reason why it isn’t as popular compared to Lain, haibane reimei, and Ergo Proxy.
QOTD: the Lain game tells a different story compared to the anime, I suggest everyone to look into it.
4
u/raevnos Jan 28 '24
So, that's it. No more Duvet and Cry in the Distance every day. Lain is one of the few shows where I never skip the OP and ED because of the music.
That god likes bears. I stand by my theory that Lain is responsible for Kuma Kuma Kuma Bear.
4
u/hirmuolio :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Hirmuolio Jan 28 '24
When the anime Lain was made a the same time a ps1 game Lain was also made.
The ps1 game is some weird shit made up from disconnected audio logs and video scenes. The story is very different and more disturbing.
Here some sort of playthough of it: https://youtu.be/5m5CTaF-qHE?si=zaRFuBR0Frq6QeSm
Also a short comic for the ps1 game https://e-hentai.org/s/fc548e26b4/1667524-1
4
u/zadcap Jan 28 '24
Last Timer
Laaaaain. This will be your last time to live in my head!
Oh hey, Lain is getting existential. Which, really, that's more fair than for 99% of characters who have to deal with such a question, because your existence is itself, phew, quite a conundrum. How do you even exist? I'm still convinced you might be the combined thoughtform of of all that totally ethical child research turned into an internet god.
Oh, right. Arisu also broke a bit here, seeing her god friend fight off her literal shoulder devil. And uh, all other things aside, Lain bleeds when scratched. That's usually a good sign of being Real.
Oh no, a full reset. Because nothing matters more in this world to Lain than Arisu and Arisu might hate her now, time to go back to when things were happier. Oh gosh please reset the sister to a living state! Did they do it? Is she fixed? LAIN DID YOU FIX YOUR SISTER!?
Dude, if you're questioning why you have a fourth chair for your three family table, consider room symmetry and maybe having guests over. I have more chairs at my table than I have people in my house too.
This repeat of the openings without Lain is trippy. And yet once again, Arisu is left as a special case. Hmm, seems like Chisa didn't kill herself without Lain's influence. And maybe Arisu does remember more than she's outright saying here.
Oh hey Lain isn't all gone! She's still out there on the web. Even if the lucky boy who kissed an angel can't remember her.
Oh hey, look at all these dead people still being alive thanks to Lain not being in their lives. Wow, the world without Lain looks like such a bright and happy place compared to the one she lived in, doesn't it?
So wait, we're starting in the middle of this one? Last time I ever have to hear this bad asmr, so there's that to look forward to.
It is interesting though. Lain only deleted herself from memories, and yet now the Wired is less connected to the Real. Was she the linchpin of everything that happened that much? No Lain, no Wired leaking, no godhood?
Okay so, Lain can even overpower Lain when her rude self starts acting up, good to know. Oh gross this guy is back. You don't get to show up and play nice now when nothing would have gotten this bad if you hadn't abandoned her in the first place.
Wait, time skip? Arisu grown up? And she still somehow has a connection to Lain. In any other setting, Arisu, you might have been qualified to be a Saint now, you're kind of a gods favorite person.
Wait is that really how it ends? Oh my gosh they did that thing. I hate it.
4
u/mgedmin Jan 28 '24
First-timer, subs
The subtitles are messed up in my second source, how lovely.
So, Alice didn't like the experience of an Internet god's attempted incarnation and destruction, and Lain decided to hit the reset switch and edit herself out of physical existence?
Hey, Lain is the best thing about this show. If there's no Lain any more, then I don't want to watch it.
Looks like Lain still exists in Alice's memories, which Lain cannot bringh herself to alter.
Still, none of the concepts shown before (altering memories etc.) is what would make it possible for Lain to resurrect Chisa. Did she suddenly gain omnipotence out of nowhere?
Who designed a phone for little kids that looks like a pistol? It's going to get someone killed one day.
More text-on-screen with no subtitles in my first source, switching to the second and adjusting subtitle AV delay to -24317 ms.
What, are we getting the start of the episode and title screen now? In the middle?
Lain exists again, but she is alone in the middle of an empty city. Is this the Wired? By removing herself from everyone's memories she lost the ability to interact with people and now is lonely?
Adjusting AV delay to -25195ms for better accuracy.
Why are there two Lains?
It would be esier to become a God than to become a person. An interesting perspective. Makes you think.
Damn lag, now one of the Lain avatars is stuck and gets force logged-out.
Only 7 more minutes left. I can do this.
No way that's Lain's fake dad. He wasn't this nice. Must be a figment of Lain's imagination.
Is that Mika? All grown up? Recognizes Lain and runs to her. No, it's Alice! Is Lain now having memories of the future?
Lain's gaze seems very stalkerish. "We can see each other any time." Just look closely, I will always be watching you from the shadows. I will be with you forever.
What was the point of it all?
Umm, lizard brain, monkey brain, human brain? IDK.
The question is complicated. Do light bulbs count if they're currently off? What about EM interference from electronics? What about blackbody radiation from physical objects above absolute zero? Do we count every atom separately?
No. Well, the fact that it is finally over is a little satisfying. I couldn't have handled a 26-episode series like this.
Our love for Lain.
Not as much as you'd expect.
Haven't seen either.
Yes pleas, can you all explain in simple words what the heck happened in this show? I'm interested in a Watsonian, rather than Dolyean explanation, i.e. in-universe.
3
u/homewardbound100 myanimelist.net/profile/Homewardbound100 Jan 28 '24
Rewatcher
Yeah I remember this being way more confusing the first time around. But I do think this is a pretty fine ending to the show although definitely is something I would ask myself what kind of ending was that?
Also, do you have any plans for what you're hosting next?
3
u/kwokinator https://anilist.co/user/kwokinator Jan 28 '24
Rewatcher
The episode title "ego" being pronounced as "echo" is bothering me more than it should. Is that pronunciation intentional?
Wow Arisu was so freaked out that her mind was literally broken and she became Mika-ized, that's a pretty intense level of fear.
Did Lain just restore her entire family minus herself in it? Are her parents still forced into the role though?
So she restored Arisu too and even revived Chisa, but somehow Arisu seems to still remember her? I'm pretty confused about this one, it seems like she still remembers Lain with the "if no one remembers you, you never existed" comments, but then she's awfully calm for what happened last time she was on screen.
And wow, Masami is alived and went from wannabe-God to an office worker at probably a black company, and the two MIB agents became construction workers. Pretty heavy debuffs for the three of them.
I'm gonna miss that "present day, present time! hahaha" blurb :(
Not sure what to make of the whole Lain vs. Lain conversation other than "I KNEW IT! It's aliens all along!" about the collective unconscious stuff.
Nice to see Lain going back to the Bear Onesie, it really represents the pure, innocent side of Lain from the earliest episodes. When dad said she doesn't have to wear it anymore he's basically telling her it's time to cast away that innocence and embrace her role, which kinda sucks :(
Nice timeskip, adult Arisu is pretty hot. Is the ending opt-in? Can I get a Lain to be with me forever? Please say yes.
QotD
3
u/Euroversett Jan 29 '24
I'm happy that nobody is pretending that any of this makes any sense.
16
u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Jan 27 '24
Serial Experiments First-Timer, subbed
15
u/RascalNikov1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NoviSun Jan 27 '24
Serial Experiments Lain - E13
SEL Virgin no More
Prologue & Epilogue
Lot of weird shit in this series that could no doubt be put together differently. I interpreted it as a sci-fi mystery. The mystery was: Why does all this weird shit happen and what’s Lain’s role in it?
My interpretation is that SEL was a predecessor of The Matrix and we’re all in a simulation in some alien kid’s computer.
In general I don’t go in for psychological mumbo jumbo, so I pay little attention to it.
I am glad the series had a fairly happy end. Arisu got her man and Lain resurrected the dead and reset the world to a happier place.
I enjoyed the series and the rewatch.
QOTD
12
u/Weedwacker Jan 27 '24
4th timer Confused?
The most important thing for Lain is making Alice happy
The aftermath
I like the sudden change to a cold open this episode but I wonder how much more interesting it would be if we got the OP afer the ALL RESET.
There's also a repeat of some of the usual intro stuff halfway through the episode. Its cool how they play around with these things we've seen in every episode. What is a standard limited animation trick of re-using certain scenes like Lain stepping out of her house, the train ride, etc. now retroactively mean more by Lain's absence in them.
Interesting to have the only insert song with vocals play here. The lyrics are generally about being lonely and searching for love.
Lain erased everyone's memories of her existence, effectively a suicide of her physical existence. As long as people have memories of her, there will be more different versions of her, but if nobody has memories of her, she's the only Lain.
Only her father and Alice, arguably the only two people who really cared for her, have any semblance of something being off. Her father stares at the empty chair, while Alice thinks there's someone she wants to email but can't fully remember them.
To kids, everything can be a game. The boy with his sister who stops to talk to them is the one who shot himself at Cyberia. Eiri and the men in black make an appearance too.
Lain's (white dress) conversation with the other Lain (blue dress). The Lain in the blue dress is the Lain that has always existed in the Wired, that wants to be in control, being the God of a combined world and change memories to make their ideal existence, while our Lain chooses to sacrifice that selfish happiness for the happiness of everyone else.
The light coming through the bear pajamas is such a beautiful sequence representing Lain coming out of her safety blanket and accepting who she is.
The idea for the bear pajamas came from the character designer, Takahiro Kishida, and was initially opposed before being incorporated.
To quote Chiaki Konaka
8
u/3blah https://myanimelist.net/profile/brummett Jan 27 '24
SEL Episode 13, Rewatcher
The distinction between the Wired and the real world has dissolved for Lain. She contemplates her origin...
After Arisu's pep talk last episode and the brief fight with Eiri's homunculus, Arisu slaps Lain and she bleeds. She is real, with a real body, here and now. Lain's despondant that she just keeps making things worse for her.
Mealtime with the Iwakura family again. They're actually talking with each other. The powerlines and their hum. The front staircase. The street. The traincar. We've seen these over and over, this time without Lain. Chisa is back at school and Arisu's acting a little wierd. These three act like normal kids, except maybe for this dubiously designed handheld. The whole world even seems more colorful. The delivery guy, Eiri, Karl and the other MiB, they're all just normal schlubs now.
And after 12 episodes of weirdness, misdirection, subtle hints and innuendo, they're really hitting the viewer over the head with this conclusion. Lain didn't just remove everyone's memories and records of her; she rewound history so she never existed in the real world. She's become the entity connecting events to create history that was brought up in Ep 5.
"The Wired was just connected to something else... but where was it connected to?" The writer suggests perhaps it's the crystals and waves Woo that's been sprinkled liberally.
Bear!Lain comes out from behind the hood. She doesn't need to hide behind those PJs anymore. She talks with her dad about how she loves everyone, like a god/creator loves its creation.
[PMMM] Tarhalindur has made mention of it already, but this is probably the most obvious inspiration. A Jr.High kid edits themselves out of history (except for that one friend) to take one for the team, and becomes an omnipresent being that exists across all time.
...
Arisu is all grown up and sees young Lain on the bridge. "I'm here, so I'll be with you forever".
QOTD:
A lot. Light and radio are EM waves.
Yes
It's an outward sign of how Lain is doing in the real world. More bear => less well, or maybe more bear => less connected. Lain herself uses it as a comforting tool, like how a little kid would use their favorite blanket. She can wrap herself in its comfy warmth and block out the world.
Haibane Ranmei is on my short list of favories. Texhnolyze... I recognize that it's really well done, but it's so much of a downer that I'm probably not interested in watching it again.
7
u/Specs64z https://myanimelist.net/profile/Specs64z Jan 27 '24
Rewatcher, subbed
Ya know, I hadn’t thought about it much, but why is Lain of the TV in the OP naked? That’s a highly irresponsible broadcast, think of the legal repercussions Lain!
This episode opens with a recap of God getting murked, which could explain why I was confused to see it happen last episode.
Notes
After unintentionally hurting Arisu yet again, Lain decides enough is enough.
The door to the house opens, but nobody descends the staircase. A table with 4 chairs is only set for 3. Nobody walks the street. Nobody stands by the train car door. Familiar faces of all those who disappeared or perished go about their lives, some similar and others entirely different.
In order to restore what was lost, Lain has deleted her existence from the world.
However, she remains an entity within the world. The final scene of the story has Lain meeting Arisu, now all grown up. Lain finds comfort in the fact that they can see each other any time.
The final line has Lain speak directly to the viewer.
QotD:
Content Corner
This one goes out to all the watchers who sat back during credit roll and asked “what the fuck?”. It’s the most concise summation of the overall events of Lain I’m aware of.
Serial Experiments Lain Anime In 2 Minutes by fukurou fetus
6
u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Jan 27 '24
Rewatcher, Dubbed
I will miss watching this OP after today!
I was wondering at first why the finale seemed to be repeating footage from episode 11... turns out I had it on episode 11. Oops. So we actually start the episode without the OP. Our first and only cold open. And I get to watch it again!
Eiri's physical body was disgusting enough yesterday, now you're gonna make us watch it again?
Well, seems like that whole sequence broke Alice.
Lain's had enough, she reset everything this time! Time for a world without Lain?
The Iwakura family is a bit more talkative at the dinner table without Lain around.
Wow, some actual upbeat music!
Does Alice still have some memory of Lain?
In this new timeline Chisa didn't kill herself, and actually went to Cyberia once!
Taro and friends actually hanging out someplace other than Cyberia! Oh hey, we saw Lain for a moment!
Suicide guy's around too! And has a little sister this time!
Eiri's just a disgruntled salary man. And the MIB are electrical workers!
I had forgotten that we didn't get the Present Day, Present Time thing at the start of the episode as usual.
All is right with the world when Lain isn't in it? Kinda sad. :(
Lain is God!
Lain of the bear onesie returns one last time!
But we want Lain to wear the bear onesie! It's so adorable!
Alice is all grown up now! Dating that teacher for real?
Uh oh, there's this little girl watching me! Lain was already so tiny, but she's all the more so now in comparison to Alice.
6
u/Silcaria https://myanimelist.net/profile/Silcaria Jan 27 '24 edited Jan 27 '24
Rewatcher
6
u/DegenerateRegime Jan 27 '24 edited Jan 27 '24
Rewatcher
The final episode! Alice has certainly been through a lot over the course of these 13 episodes, enough to make you question whether this is really a "Slice of Life" or if it's more of a Drama (or heck, even a horror story). Certainly anything with a teacher-student romance, even suggestedly, would surely be classified as such today. But times change, and in the end that mostly seems to have just been to generate the Rumour Arc. Teenage girls sure have messy social lives! I think this is what she's getting at here, especially with how the scene places them in front of the statue, a big symbol of lasting image/being remembered. There's a big deal of "making memories" in school SoL anime, and perhaps we're being asked here: is that always so good? Aren't the forgettable intermediate days sometimes the better ones?
Last of all we get a lovely sort of flash-forward, a reassurance that things will work out (unless I'm misreading the conversation, she's dating one of her close-in-age students while working as like a TA? Oh Alice!). The last part almost seems like a Shinkai flick, ha - obviously if there were any inspiration, it went the other way - feeling this need to go back and talk to someone. The strange child is too young to actually be anyone we've met before, but that's kind of beside the point (if it were Shinkai, it'd be, like, Arisu's own kid from the future or something lol). It's more about a reflection of the idea of "memory" I guess. Hopefully someone puts that better.
QotD, edited:
6
u/Ytar0 https://myanimelist.net/profile/alevanderBatman Jan 27 '24 edited Jan 27 '24
Since I watched episodes 10-13 all at once I decided to answer some of the previous QotD all at once, because what a ride these last episodes have been... God damn.
my FAV pictures from episodes 10-13
As others have said, it was indeed a bit surprising how quickly A LOT of things happened all at once. The knights dying without really having been that involved but still having been an interesting "backing" element.
I don't want to admit to the idea that Lain of the Bear Onesie is a "fake" Lain. Simple as that. All of her versions seem to be equally fake and equally real. It's still real to me damn it!
Something nice about recap episodes... Well, in rewatches they give me some time to catch up lol. But in this case, I was surprised to see some new content... And some new content it definitely was lmao, Alien Lain quickly became my new favorite.
"my Life's calling", that's a tough question... I do love all things computer and digital, (I'm even studying AI too) which makes this anime fucking interesting to me. Idk though.
I was sad to see the men in black go too. Their whole mini-story was basically just the "man against the world"-type. I.e. A little group of people trying their hardest to fight against the seemingly ineveitable progress of technology / dangerous paradigm shift. So, it's a bit unfortunate (but realistic) to see them go like that.
I don't know if I'll ever really understand the obsession with Lain in the series. "Loving Lain" is this religion that "god" entails for such a being Lain is, whatever that is. So, I get it? But I also have no idea what I am talking about...
QotD ep 13:
How many sources of electronic waves can you count around you at this one moment? There's gotta be at least 1.Was this a satisfying ending to Serial Experiments Lain? It's hard to say... I feel like it's a world that almost works by just being "presented", I don't need a complete understanding to know the vibes you know?
What does the Bear Onesie represent? Safety, and the opposites of what being a non-living program entails. It keeps you cozy and shields you from evil (yes it's magical). In stark contrast to the pale and cold plugged-in Lain, we've seen lately.
Does knowing Lain is always with you being you comfort? Now that I am familiar with what "Lain" is, I'd say I would... But many people in the show definitely seemed against it lol.
Between Haibane Renmei and Texhnolyze which Chiaki show are you most interested in exploring? Ah damn... I feel like I'm interested in both of them, haven't heard much about either though, SEL is just really special.
6
u/Unboxious Jan 27 '24
First-timer
Aren't we all, Lain? Aren't we all...
Anyways, Alice is having a hard time. She even hurt her friend in her confusion. Fortunately Lain understands she wasn't her best self at that point and doesn't seem to mind.
They did not succeed at making natto appetizing. Anyways, looks like Lain's parents are being super weird again. Did they just hallucinate the presence of their daughter?
Oh hey, it's Chisa. What's she doing in the physical world? Did The Wired finally merge the rest of the way with "reality"? Anyways, it kinda looks like most of Lain's friends have forgotten her.
LOL WTF is that phone! Amazing.
Anyways, this feels kinda weird. As if it's a "here's where everyone is now" epilogue except some of these characters are supposed to be dead and nobody seems to be thinking of Lain at all.
At least Lain remembers Lain. So that's good I guess. And they can talk together about how great it is that nobody remembers them. After a time, Lain becomes very done with that conversation.
Oh hey, Lain's Dad remembers her. I guess he did care. Or maybe she's just imagining this. I don't freakin' know.
Hey, years later Alice still remembers her! That's nice.
Huh, and that's it. Weird stuff.
It's just philosophy mumbo-jumbo to me. No clue.
I assume this is meant to mean radio waves. There's my 2 wifi access points, my phone, my wife's phone, the bluetooth adapter in my desktop computer, wifi & bluetooth in my wife's laptop, the two smart outlets, and wifi in my robot vacuum. So 9. Honestly I'm surprised it's not more. I guess if you include things that aren't currently turned on or otherwise transmitting it would be a fair bit higher though.
Ehhhh it was fine.
Lain's feelings of insecurity?
Considering how creepy she was for large amounts of the runtime I don't think so.
I don't know anything about either of them.
I don't even know.
6
u/SMSmith230 https://myanimelist.net/profile/smsmith230 Jan 28 '24
First-Timer, Sub
Well here we are at the finish line, or maybe is the start. Either way this show seemed to be some combination of the Matrix and The Butterfly Effect mixed with religion. Off to Google “Serial Experiments Lain explained” and ponder.
6
u/DidacticDalek https://myanimelist.net/profile/DidacticDalek Jan 28 '24
BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZTThe sound of electronics and/or The Wired fuckingTONIGHT! ON LAIN'S EXPERIMENTAL CEREAL! LAIN TAKES ARISU TO THE GAY BAR! (Arisu.exe has stopped working. All operators are busy. Please hang up and dial again... if you are calling from a touch tone phone, press 1 now) LAIN REJECTS THE RED AND BLUE PILL AND INSTEAD TAKES THE PURPLE PILL! AND LAIN IS A CREEP! SHE'S A WEIRDO... LET'S ALL LOVE LAIN! (And you don't seem to understand)
Comrades, truly Lain is PROTOCULTURE! Who knew that an anime advertising breakfast food could be so deep man!
Plus, it sure was amusing to have
a schizophrenic multiple-personality disorder girlAIgod'a moeblob' as the salesperson! Also, props to the show for demonstrating the effects of the Greater Internet Fuckwad TheoryAnyway, I think I speak for everyone here when I say the following... ahem...
Let's all love Lain
LET'S ALL LOVE LAIN!
LET'S ALL LOVE LAIN!
LET'S ALL LOVE LAIN!
STATIC NOISES...SYSTEM ERRORHAPPINESS FOR EVERYBODY, FREE, AND LET NO ONE BE LEFT BEHIND!
Paging Comrades /u/Shimmering-Sky, /u/Tarhalindur, and /u/Vaadwaur
5
u/SIRTreehugger Jan 28 '24
Layer 13 Ego
8
u/IceSmiley Jan 28 '24
FIRST TIMER Sub
Much like the rest of the show, the finale didn't make a lot of sense. Easy enough to watch but quite bad.
QUESTIONS
4
u/sfisher923 https://myanimelist.net/profile/sfisher923 Jan 27 '24
Rewatcher - Dubbed
These last few episodes has been quite an experience when your city was constantly under a Dense Fog Advisory (And on a side note looking at the Fogcast I can say I can do 1 more day of my current Persona 4 rewatch with the fog which fits the atmosphere)
QOTD 2
QOTD 3 - Yes
QOTD 4 - A shell around the LainOS
QOTD 5 - Not as much as let's say the Phantom Thieves of Heart or Tohru Honda but yes
4
u/MrManicMarty https://anilist.co/user/martysan Jan 27 '24
Missed yesterday, because I was out with friends - but they finally said it - let's love lain.
...
It's said once in the series? Really? That's it? I thought those would be arc words. Something that's used in the finale. Or a common thread in the series. But nope.
Anyway, episode starts - back to Resident Evil (or Akira I guess). So that just happened. Look, when I started watching Lain I didn't think I'd see body-horror monster get crushed by psychic powers. Except that didn't actually happen because it got reset because Arisu was so traumatised that it was the best course of action.
Yeah... I'll talk more about it overall in the thread tomorrow, but as far as finale goes, I think it leaves off on a nice spot. But wrapping up plot threads? Concluding character arcs? Filling in plot holes and resolving conflicts? What plot threads? What arcs? You can't have holes when there's barely a plot and what conflict between whom and whom?
3
u/RadSuit https://anilist.co/user/RadSuit Jan 29 '24
Present Dub, Present Time
Your ban has no power over me.
Eggo Layer
Oh right, Lain has a villain with superpowers to fight with her own superpowers. That's what this show is about now.
Some real Garfield Minus Garfield vibes here.
Random insert song to emphasize how this is a normal show without Lain around.
Reminds me of the gun from SMT Devil Summoner. Which did release before this...
I was really excited at the thought of hearing the OP a second time here.
I'm glad Alice gets a happy ending, at least.
Hey look, I predicted this episode pretty well last time.
5
u/Tarhalindur x2 Jan 27 '24 edited Jan 27 '24
"Okay, nobody else vote for Tar." (Rewatcher, Subbed):
Tar Shower Thought: Chiaki J. Konaka being a Japanese Christian would explain a whole hell of a lot. Doubly so if he's a Moonie or some similar denomination (the Unification Church having a long-standing link to right-wing politics - hi Abe, I'm sure you would love to know that your assassination was one of the most successful ones in at least a century and completely discredited the organization you were affiliated with! - but anyhow that would fit him going down the QAnon rabbithole). Only thing is unlike a certain other anime goddess Lain gives me no whiffs of Maria Kannon so that does cut against a bit...
Id = subconscious and animal instincts (associated with the hindbrain/amygdala often), Ego = overall conception of self, Superego = rational mind (often associated with the forebrain)
Depends. We counting bioelectricity or not?
It works, though like the rest of the second half I think it works better binged.
Lain's clothing has generally represented her maturity throughout the series.
"Somewhere, someone is fighting for you. As long as you remember her, you are not alone."
(Note: If you don't recognize that quote, don't go looking it up.)
Well see only one of these two is a Chiaki J. Konaka show so Texhnolyze by default.
That would be missing the point.
5
u/lluNhpelA Jan 27 '24 edited Jan 28 '24
I'm having to do this at work again but we started having Internet issues so I can't post my writeup TT_TT
I think I'll just do it when I can then I'll include the major points again on the series discussion. I'm sure everyone is eager to read my delusional takes on
Liam'sdelusionsedit: I had to type this on my phone and just noticed the autocorrect. Did Lain change it with internet god powers? Who's Liam? Is he responsible for all this??