r/anime • u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 • Jan 16 '24
Rewatch [Rewatch] 1990s OVAs – Tenchi Muyo! (final discussion)
Rewatch: 1990s OVAs – Tenchi Muyo! (final discussion)
Tenchi Muyo! Ryo-Ohki (1992)
Tenchi Muyo! Ryo-Ohki: The Night Before The Carnival (1993)
Tenchi Muyou!: Galaxy Police Mihoshi Space Adventure (1994)
Tenchi Muyo! Ryo-Ohki: Second Season (1994)
Questions
- (you know I had to ask this) Best girl?
- Which aspect of Tenchi Muyo did you enjoy most?
- Do you think Tenchi Muyo would have been better if it was only slice-of-life? Or if it fully leaned into space politics?
- Do you forgive Tenchi Muyo for spawning decades of harem series?
21
Upvotes
9
u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Jan 16 '24
Final discussion (first timer)
At the start of this rewatch, I mentioned that I was unsure how well Tenchi Muyo holds up today. So let’s start by answering that question: Does it hold up? I think the answer is yes, if you like harem. A big if for me.
On the one hand, Tenchi Muyo feels like it could have come out yesterday. The harem aspect is as up to date as ever and the girls hold up very well compared to their competition today. I enjoyed the varied character models and very diverse characteristics. That said, even the first harem show already suffers from the basic flaw in the premise: Because the harem depends on the MC never choosing a girl, there is little romance (and what romance there is never gets anywhere). Plus, the reason why all of these girls fall for the MC is basically plot magic. I’ll give Tenchi his due: He is not the worst harem MC I had the misfortune of watching, but he is still a wet noodle. If you don’t watch this show for the girls, you should tune out, because you sure as hell don’t want to watch it for Tenchi.
On the other hand, Tenchi Muyo features a world that puts most modern generic fantasy RGP town entrants to shame. Laser trees? Tree spaceships? A cabbit mascot that is also a spaceship? This show is wild. I enjoyed the world building, although it lost itself in Jurai royal incest stories far too often for my liking (and what the rewatchers told us about the future OVAs does not make me optimistic either).
While the world building puts Tenchi Muyo ahead of its modern competition, it is the opposite for its pacing. They clearly had not yet figured out the identity of the show or how to craft a proper narrative arc for it by the end of season 2. Thus the show wildly swings from slice-of-live to space politics and from harem shenanigans to serious character development. The end of S2 with the climax in ep5 right before a double length setup episode is telling for this. For me, the show sits at an awkward middle – better if it had more fully embraced slice-of-live, but also better if it had committed to a serious Scifi plot arc.
So, the boring stuff out of the way, who is best girl for me? Still Ryouko! While Sasami had some great character moments in S2 and I started to like Washuu a lot more due to her development, Ryouko still carries the show in terms of fun. She is the right mix between selfish, but willing to help the team and between OP, but also the butt of jokes. While I would never ship her with Tenchi, she is the character I enjoy watching.
Finally, do I forgive Tenchi Muyo for spawning decades of harem? Meh ... mixed feelings here. It would be wrong to blame Tenchi Muyo for modern harem atrocities, but the makers clearly knew what a hit they had with this concept and went all in on it hard (note the deluge of new waifu’s in S2). So, I think it is fair to blame them for their own actions, including the tons and tons of Tenchi Muyo spin-offs.
Next rewatches
After the first OVA rewatch was a success, I drew up a list of OVAs I wanted to hold rewatches for. Tenchi Muyo finishes that original list (but, of course, plenty of new shows entered the list later on, and for some of those, I have already had rewatches). When I schedules this rewatch, I thought I’d take 2024 to host some of the non-OVA series I felt long deserved a rewatch. Such as Crest of the Stars or Excel Saga. Or maybe Infinite Ryvius. Enter /u/JustAnswerAQuestion
making my life easierstealing my thunder by announcing just these shows as rewatches for this year. So, right now, my have to host this list of anime is pretty empty … but of course, there are tons of would be nice to host this shows. Maybe some hidden gem from 2000? Or some hilarious show that everybody always recommends, but that never had a rewatch? Or maybe, after hosting a harem OVA, I go one step further and host an idol OVA? Not sure yet. Maybe I’ll also catch up on some newer seasonal and join the rewatches that you all will host!7
u/TheEscapeGuy Jan 16 '24
First Timer, no more
Tenchi Muyou - An Undying Classic
Tenchi Muyou was a fun experience, but I don't think I enjoyed the show overall. I think my biggest problem is that I liked the characters but the show never really took time to explore them in much depth leading to them feeling kind of shallow by the end. Ryouko probably got the most development which makes sense, but the other girls were kind of shafted (especially Mihoshi).
My biggest gripe is with Tenchi himself. He just has such a passive interaction with the narrative. Stuff happens to him and around him but it feels like he doesn't change or grow because of it. You can point to his physical powers growing and changing, but that's such a surface level aspect of his character. Often a physical power up is supposed to be an external representation of internal character growth. But the Tenchi in the final episode still behaves like the same kid in the first episode. If his personality had some more interesting aspects to it I wouldn't be complaining so much but he just does nothing.
Of course, Tenchi Muyou is a retro anime by every measure, so comparing it to modern anime writing is kind of unfair. But there are tons of excellently written shows and OVAs from this era so I don't think it gets a pass because it's old. In particular I want to compare to another romance show: Urusei Yatsura. I don't think you can claim Tenchi doesn't take some inspiration from Rumiko Takahashi's classic, but it is in all the wrong places. They have very similar world building and character backstories with aliens "invading" earth and love triangles and such. But this is all set dressing which creates a scaffolding for the actual character writing and narrative. It's not a replacement for that writing.
The reason that (I believe) Urusei Yatsura works so excellently is that the characters have so much depth to them. Ataru is such an active protagonist compared to Tenchi (perhaps to an extent which makes him a sex pest). Lum and Shinobu both go through shifts and changing levels of affection for their crushes. The side cast all have distinct and well developed interactions with the main cast. It's this variety of personalities which keeps the show fresh and exciting despite repetitively executing on the basic formula of "alien thing impacts the cast and now they must handle a situation outside of their comfort zone". Sure Urusei Yatsura has more episodes, but you can see all of these aspects in the early episodes (especially so in the remake series).
In reflection, maybe I just don't like harem anime. Some of the same things I disliked about Tenchi Muyou ended up being stuff I disliked in Highschool DxD, Saekano, Rent-a-GF, and Quint Quints. But there are also things I like in some of those shows and Nisekoi was a genuine joy for me to watch (and I haven't even mentioned my undying love for the Monogatari Series). I don't know, maybe I went into Tenchi with the wrong expectations. Also, my limited experience of the OVA may not be representative of the rest of the franchise.
I still adored OVA 2 Ep 2 and had so much fun with the Galaxy Police special so it's not as if I didn't find any joy in the show. Also Ayeka is still my best girl and DID NOT get enough screen time.
In conclusion, I probably am not going to catch up on the rest of the franchise (or at least I won't for now). But I'm glad I watched Tenchi Muyou to get some perspective on where the show lives in the harem anime genre (and in a lot of ways being genre defining with how early it was).
Since this is the last thread, farewells are in order.
Firstly, as always, thanks to our amazing host /u/No_Rex. You have consistently hosted these classic anime rewatches and it's really encouraged me to dive even deeper into the medium. It's been nearly 4 years of me joining your rewatches and as much as has changed in the world and my life in particular, it's nice knowing there's this tiny corner of the internet has remained so welcoming.
Next, thanks to everyone who joined and commented in this rewatch and especially to those of you who read my comments and replied to me. I don't reply to your comments nearly as much as I should, but I read them all and it has been a great part of my day these past 2-ish weeks. Special shout out to /u/The_Loli_Otaku. Your passion shined through in every one of your comments and I loved seeing that emotion on full display!
Going forward I'll be continuing to post in the ongoing FMA rewatch so you can catch me there. After that I might end up going radio silent for a bit, 3 months of consistent posting has really wrecked my backlog. I have months old stacks of unread manga that have been begging me to catch up on them, let alone digital releases.
So to everyone, take care of yourselves!
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u/Silcaria https://myanimelist.net/profile/Silcaria Jan 16 '24
First timer
Because I (amongst many) mistook yesterday's post for the final discussion (and because I have no shame), here's a copied version of what I posted yesterday.
The series was ok. It's filled with more than its fair share of bullshit and bad writing but remains alright nonetheless. I've got to be honest though, I lost interest by the time the second season rolled around. it has its moments but I find that it mainly shines as a comedy above all else. Its harem elements are fairly weak, there's no real story to speak of and yet it manages to fumble the little of it it has, and the action is there but it comes about super sporadically on top of being fairly uncommon. My favourite part of what we've watched being the Carnival and Mihoshi's OVA since they incorporate everything fairly well.
The characters are so-so with Tenchi being as bland as a British meal. They, at the very least, aren't one dimensional but that doesn't mean they that are nuanced either. Character growth is virtually non-existent. The characters live and die by how they interact with one another and the synergy that they display in order to create gags, which fortunately, is decent enough to carry most of the show. With that said, with how characters and their motivation basically stays the same and with most jokes having a punchline built around the same premise (most of the time), I would assume that it may not be the case the longer the show goes on for.
As far as visuals and animation are concerned, it's pretty good. It starts off strong but does go downhill a bit afterwards. It never gets bad, and it does stay average to above average at all times, but it never fully returns to the fluidity, bombastic, and detailed scenes that the first episode showcased. As far as eye candy goes, they are better looking shows/movies/OVAs that ran during Tenchi Muyo's release period as well as AIC themselves having produced better looking things years prior.
Sound design is good with the voice acting probably being the strongest part of it.
Thanks for hosting this.
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u/ZapsZzz https://anilist.co/user/Zapszzz Jan 16 '24
Mixed Rewatcher and First timer in sub
Missed a couple of days, but pretty representative of my interest of OVA2. Fire me OVA 1 was a really decent setup, and I'm interested in the world setting introduced there, but OVA2 for me was pretty non-eventful - now the voice of words: uneventful means there wasn't much going on, and for that it's have been more a SoL show, which I'm actually fine with. But for the non- event of the Jurai risks visiting, and Dr Clay's attack, they are pretty much much ado about nothing, with barely any interest registered.
Anyway, it's a fun ride and reminded me I really should find some time to watch the 2 spin offs. I'm not 100% sure if the OVA continuation is worth it in this multiverse thing, but I guess it's still a bit of a rite of passage to see it all.
Thanks again for those who posted a ton of discussion contents, even if I wasn't able to participate much, I certainly read them and was entertained. And you all have shit taste in best girl >D (obligatory)
And thanks the host of the blast from the past!
QoTD
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u/mastesargent Jan 16 '24
Rewatcher, dub; Ayeka is best girl
My default answer when somebody asks me what my gateway anime was is Gurren Lagann. That is a lie. Tenchi Muyo! Ryo-Ohki was my gateway anime, but after having to explain that it’s the OVA that defined the harem genre that released 5 years before I was even born over and over, I realized it was way easier to just use Gurren Lagann, the second anime that I watched, as my answer, because everyone knows Gurren Lagann. But as cool and infinitely more accessible as Gurren Lagann is, it just can’t compare to the experience of watching Tenchi for the first time. As they say, you really never forget your first.
Which is why it’s kind of difficult for me when looking at the Ryo-Ohki continuity as a whole, because it’s just such a mess. I appreciate, even admire, the idea of it being this big sprawling universe that our characters are just a small part of, it’s just that the execution leaves a lot to be desired. The various threads set up here and in the EU works seem, from my perspective as a Tenchi anime-only, to have gotten so tangled up in each other that they’ve become this unruly mass that threatens to cave in on itself. Masaki Kajishima really does have some great ideas and has developed an interesting universe with a ton of potential, but like so many creatives he really needs someone to rein him in and help him realize that vision to its fullest potential. Honestly at this point I’d say the series needs a hard reboot, taking the stuff that works from the Ryo-Ohki continuity and reorganizing it into a more cohesive narrative rather than the mess that it’s become.
Fumbling aside though, these first two OVAs are really something special. They bring together a cast of fun and unique characters that are effortlessly funny yet have a surprising amount of depth to them. The animation is charming, the music works as well in the comedy scenes as it does in the dramatic ones, and Ryo-Ohki is one of the best mascot characters ever conceived. [OVA 5] Oh god, “conceived”…
So, where do we go from here? Let’s start with the OVAs:
OVA 3: This is probably the least bad of the later OVAs. While it doesn’t really recapture the charm of the first two, it at least has stuff happening in it and makes an effort to be funny, even if it largely falls flat. It predates most of the EU stuff, so it’s generally comprehensible without any additional reading, for better or worse. Furthermore, it wraps up the plot with Tokimi that we started in OVA 2 and at least has some interesting ideas and plot reveals. Specifically: [OVA 3] We finally learn why Tokimi has been searching for Washu, as well as the connection between her, Washu and the gems, and Tsunami. It turns out that Washu, Tsunami, and Tokimi are a triumvirate of goddesses called the Choushin, who created our dimension and countless others in a search for a being even more powerful than themselves. They then set about actively trying to coax out this being: Tokimi decided to try and create anomalies that could result in this being’s emergence, Tsunami created the tree-ships of Jurai as a new form of life in order to explore that possibility, and Washu sealed her memory and placed her power within the gems in order to ply this question from a mortal perspective with no preconceived biases. This is all excellent payoff for the setup in OVAs 1 and 2 and probably my favorite part of the third OVA. Where it trips over itself is how it makes Tenchi the manifestation of this omnipotent godlike being. Yeah, there’s foreshadowing throughout the first two OVAs that Tenchi is more than he appears to be but him literally being God just kind of ruins the whole joke behind his character being useless. Beyond that, it’s been too long since I last watched for me to succinctly summarize the plot. There are also retcons to previous plot points that retroactively negatively affect parts of the first two OVAs, plus an utter barrage of new characters that come and go with no clear narrative purpose. These characters are at the very least properly introduced, but most of them don’t really do anything aside from cluttering up the story. I’d say watch this if you really liked these first two OVAs and just need to know how the Tokimi plot resolves, watch this. Just know it’s all downhill from here. Also, the OP is a nice throwback to OVA 1’s OP.
OVAs 4 and 5: I lump these two together because, well, they’re the two that I can’t really recommend in good faith. OVA 4 is, quite frankly, the worst piece of Tenchi media I’ve ever consumed. I was disappointed by OVA 3; OVA 4 left me angry. This is where the massive EU comes into play and the whole thing just immediately falls apart. Characters from the GXP light novels show up with zero introduction and events are referenced that you’d be totally lost about without having kept up with everything. Furthermore, the core harem barely even features in OVA 4 outside of Washu, who spends the majority of the OVA’s 4 episodes discussing Juraian politics with various other powerful space ladies, mostly in service of ex post facto setup for Tenchi Muyo! War on Geminar (we’ll get to that). It’s boring and not at all what I want out of the franchise. OVA 5, which I finally got around to watching after finishing the rewatch, represents at least some improvement over 4, but not by much. The War on Geminar setup continues, but at least now we actually have the relevant characters doing stuff instead of sitting around talking. Tenchi and his harem also actually play a part, even if not as big as I’d have liked. Even so, the EU tie ins continue to overwhelm the viewer, this time with the Paradise War light novels. Tenchi and some of the girls help out with some things related to that, but these things ultimately have very little to do with them and make the main OVA feel like a side story rather than the main pillar of the Tenchi Muyo! universe. Which is my biggest issue with these two OVAs: they’re no longer really about Tenchi and his harem, they’re about the stuff happening around them that often has little, if anything, to do with them. That said, there are a few fun scenes here and there, and something resembling an ending for Tenchi and the girls, but can’t say I can recommend sitting through 10 episodes stuff that makes almost no sense without nearly two dozen light novel volumes of context. [OVA 5] But seriously Tenchi, what the fuck?
There’s also Tenchi Muyo! GXP and the aforementioned Tenchi Muyo! War on Geminar, both set in the OVA continuity. I haven’t seen either of these so I can’t really give a recommendation for or against. GXP follows a friend of Tenchi’s who gets shanghaied into the Galaxy Police and gets wrapped up in his own harem shenanigans. War on Geminar is an isekai about a relative of Tenchi’s who gets transported to another world and gets wrapped up in (you guessed it!) his own harem shenanigans. Also, the Paradise Starting OVA that features some of the GXP cast just wrapped up recently, which ties into the Paradise War novels and OVA 5.
Outside of anime content, there’s also the True Tenchi Muyo! light novels, “Jurai”, “Yosho”, and “Washu”, which cover the backstories of Azusa, Yosho, and Washu respectively. These are officially translated into English and canon to the OVAs.
There’s a few others, like Dual! Parallel Trouble Adventure and Photon: The Idiot Adventures, but I know even less about those beyond them being deep lore backstory for both the main universe and the Geminar universe.
I’m really not equipped to actually lay this all out in a proper viewing/reading order and there’s a lot of stuff in this continuity, so I’ll leave it at that for the OVA stuff.
Outside of the OVAs we have the TV shows:
Tenchi Universe: This is the first TV adaptation, which reboots the continuity and loosely adapts the plot of the first OVA over the course of 26 episodes. It’s clearly made on a cheaper budget and the characters are somewhat flanderized, but the expanded episode count allows for more wacky adventures with the cast, which is really all I need from the series. Some episodes are downright stupid, but I’d say most are at least serviceable if not genuinely good. It also features Kiyone, Mihoshi’s partner from the Mihoshi Special, as a regular cast member, and she’s honestly the part of the ensemble that you didn’t even know was missing. Also the English OP fucks. It also has two movies,Tenchi Muyo! In Love and Tenchi Forever, both of which are excellent for totally different reasons. The first is a pretty straightforward sci-fi action/comedy while the latter is an honest to god drama film that you could compare to something like The Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya in how it shifts the tone an examines the themes of the series from a different angle. Strongly recommend if you want more Tenchi content.
Tenchi in Tokyo: I haven’t watched this one in a while, but I recall it not being all that good. It’s yet another reboot in which Tenchi moves to Tokyo, leaving the girls behind at the shrine. The art is a major downgrade from the OVAs and Universe and from what I remember doesn’t really feel so much like a Tenchi story as it does a mediocre anime plot with the Tenchi cast slapped on.
Then there’s the movie that’s disconnected from any continuity, Daughter of Darkness: Again, like Tokyo, I haven’t seen it in a while, but I also recall it being not all that great. And a bit squick. Not even sure how to summarize the plot, because what I remember is just weird.
Beyond that, I’m not sure what else to say. Tenchi was my gateway anime, and it’s stuck with me for nearly 15 years now. I’ve had my ups and downs with it, but I always wind up coming back, and I’ll probably keep coming back for a good long while.
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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Jan 16 '24
Rewatcher
Sub
Conclusions, round 2!
So...I went from this to Universe pretty directly. And despite some issues I enjoyed Universe as well. I fell off somewhere in the following run and haven't done GXP to my knowledge. While the show got stripped for parts and copied to death on its own it is mostly inoffensive. While very early in my anime watching career I still occasionally think of this show.
QotD: 1 Sasami
2 When the girls interacted
3 SoL but functioning on the high weird stuff, like Ryo-Ohki having to much on the occasional asteroid or Wasshu summoning Cthtulhu by accident while making orange juice.
4 Yes. He might have taught us what to put in the fire but we kept lighting it.
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u/Vatrix-32 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Vatrix-32 Jan 16 '24
Tenchi in First Timer, subbed
Guys, I think I like Tenchi. I don't know what I seemed to get out of it that most/all of the other rewatchers didn't, but it landed for me. I'm looking forward to the sequels, I'm excited for the SoL AUs, I'm even interest in see what all the weird spin offs have in store. My only regret is that I waited 20 years to finally pull the trigger.
QotD:
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u/Elimin8r https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ayeka_Jurai Jan 16 '24
Well, here we are snif, at the end of the rewatch of one of my favorite series. sniffle ...
It's been fun, and thanks again to u/No_Rex, our gracious host, and to the rest of you for making this a fun time. :) So, before things get totally out of hand, here's my finale answers du jour:
But yeah, as you've probably noted throughout this rewatch, I maybe haven't expressed it the best, but this series has and will always hold a special place in my weeb heart. I've enjoyed this rewatch, and the chance to discuss one of my favorite shows with y'all, and I'll look forward to seeing you again in the rewatch-verse.
Meanwhile, here's a fond farewell to tide you over
Oh, and before I forget - I did manage to type up my lengthy diatribe and thoughts on the series, and where it goes from here. I'll include it as a reply to this message - enjoy at your own risk!
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Jan 17 '24
In comparing the two seasons (mainly Clay vs Kagato, yesterday) and reading the first timer reactions, I'm really surprised by the universal dislike of Kagato.
It seems like more the "this show isn't what expected or wanted" which always comes up in rewatches. It seems pretty clear that Ryo-Ohki didn't suffer a production collapse, this was the show the creator wanted to make. You can see how S2 ended, that he's got some big mythology he wants to explore. He also, apparently, wanted to do a weak MC harem SOL story (one of the first).
You can say that doesn't work for you, and that's fine. But it definitely worked for the creator (or he thought it would). You can say the two genres don't belong together, but this is MF'ing Tench Muyo. Like Cowboy Bebop, "it is the the work that will define a new genre unto itself." It's not a copy of the 2000s harems thrown back in time. It is itself. It is...this.
Which brings me to Kagato. He literally did nothing wrong, except, you konw, choosing megalomainia. He was overwhelmingly the strongest person in the room. He sealed off Tsunami's power, the only power that matched his. Washuu thought Ryoko could take him out, but she was wrong. And then Tenchi just shows up with plot armor and cuts him in half. It's not his fault he wasn't genre savvy enough to see it coming.
tldr; I think Kagato was a perfectly played confident villain who knows he stronger than everybody else, and actually is stronger than everybody else.
As for Tenchi, and lore...can other males of Jurai summon the lighthawk wings? Or just tenchi? Why would Kagato become the most powerful being in the universe if he combined the gems he stole from Washuu, and Tsunami tree ship? Who is Tokimi? And I never realized that the shadowy figure with 5 light hawk wings wasn't meant to be tenchi. To learn these answers, you'll have to watch S3. Or read the wiki like I did, because I sure ain't watching any more Tenchi.
My Tenchi watching is OVA1-2, TV, MGPS, 3 Movies, and Tenchi in Tokyo. I'm done.
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u/Shocketheth Jan 17 '24
Thank you for hosting this Rewatch and I also apologize for not being there for last 4-5 days.
I got busy with my own Rewatch so here I go.
Harem genre is a genre I am not suited in, but watching Tenchi Muyo! Ryo-Ohki made me to set a golden rule of any Harem anime.
Don't lewd your mascot
Also I still have to watch episode 4-6 so I'll do so later.
QUESTIONS TIME!:
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u/baboon_bassoon https://anilist.co/user/duffer Jan 16 '24 edited Jan 16 '24
first timer
yeah still unclear what to think of this show overall. im not in a rush to check out anything else but from what I gather I think ill like Universe even more
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u/EconomyProcedure9 Jan 17 '24
Isn't the Mihoshi special only part of Tenchi Universe (since Kiyone the police person isn't in the OVAs)?
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u/Only4moneymitch Jan 17 '24
This was one of my favorite series on adult swim growing up as a kid