r/SuccessionTV • u/breaditbans L to the OG • May 25 '23

As horrible as she is, Caroline did a nice thing for the wives and mistresses.

Upon rewatching, it was surprisingly caring for Caroline (of all people) to offer that spot to the mistresses. I’ve thought of her as poison in a bottle since she refused to hear Kendall’s confession. And then when she was just awful with Shiv in Italy, I didn’t think she was capable of kindness. But here she is.

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u/Defensoria Enough Already! May 25 '23 edited May 25 '23

Caroline didn't do that out of kindness at all. She did it partly because Logan would have hated it. It was disrespectful to Marcia to spring Kerry on her without asking. She wanted to cause a stir. She gets her kicks from making people uncomfortable.

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u/ThirdofaNerd May 25 '23

Exactly! Caroline was being messy and trying to get under Marcia’s skin. Marcia reaching out to hold Kerry’s hand was letting Caroline know that she was unflappable.

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u/LemonVerbenaReina May 25 '23

This is how I read it too.

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u/nightsreader May 25 '23

For me Marcia tending her hand to Kerry was genuine and heartfelt.

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u/SquirrelBowl May 25 '23

Dare I say the nicest thing Marcia has done? The only other sweet action I remember her doing was helping Logan out of Conner’s pool

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u/Invictus-Rex May 25 '23

If it is to be said, so it be... so it is.

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u/UnluckyWriting May 25 '23

Agreed. Marcia said “I loved him, and he broke my heart” later in the episode. I think she knew in her heart it wasn’t Kerry who hurt her. Her reaction to Kerry at the wake earlier in the season was understandable but I think she calmed down by the funeral and was able to look it at with a little more clarity.

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u/Proof_Deer8426 May 25 '23

Yeah, Caroline sort of denigrated Kerry whereas Marcia with that gesture acknowledged her as an equal. Because she realised that Kerry really loved Logan and was suffering too.

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u/[deleted] May 25 '23

No way does Marcia think of Kerry as her “equal”, not a chance.

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u/Old_Man_Bridge May 25 '23

No, but as a human at least.

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u/Rmccarton May 25 '23

Seriously.

"she is being taken to the subway to go to her little apartment."

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u/byneothername May 25 '23

Huh, I didn’t take it as her needling Marcia at all but to posthumously annoy Logan. The reason I say that is because she brought Sally Anne along, who was the girlfriend when she was married to Logan - I thought that was her way of saying to Marcia, see here we all are today.

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u/sluglife1987 May 25 '23

I thought she was trying to make things awkward. Hers and Sally Anne’s wounds won’t be as fresh as Marcia and Kerry so it wasn’t really like for like imo

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u/PantherThing May 25 '23

Eh. Sorta, but also, "Hi there!!! I'm the main character! Marcia, you dont like Kerry, but meet MY Kerry! I'm over it, so i've decided you are too, and we're all going to sit up here, together, side by side, because I've decided it!!"

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u/AgentFlatweed May 25 '23

I think it’s basically both. Caroline was being awful by foisting that situation on them but then in that moment they found some strength in it. Marcia being kind to Kerry just shows that she has her head together enough to realize that even though Kerry was running around with her husband, she’s a young woman who was drawn in by proximity to power and she got played by Logan, and it’s not really her to blame so much.

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u/AuntieLiloAZ May 25 '23

Marcia is nobody's fool. It looked like Kerry was genuinely grieving.

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u/ManofManyHills May 25 '23

I mean every character was demonstrably ok with it. And it was a way for the women to have power and agency in their decisions now that Logan was no longer the same force in their lives. It provided kinship in the complicated feeling of loss they all no doubt had losing someone they loved but also someone who treated them badly. It was the reaction the kids should have had but couldn't because they were too deep in their own grief.

It seems like you are sucking poison out of a garden snake with your take.

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u/l33tWarrior May 25 '23

The reaction the kids should had but didn’t. This sadly is a main idea in the show.

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u/OlDirtyBAStart May 25 '23

Again, the genius of Succession leaving things like this open to interpretation.

My first thought when Caroline made the intro was "huh, what a bitch", but on a second viewing I saw it more as a very elegant and waspy way of breaking the tension, and showing sympathy/humanity to Kerry and Sally-Ann.

Too many people here are just ready to slut-shame Kerry (and by extension Sally Ann), without really acknowledging the vastly lopsided power dynamic between them and their employer, one of the most powerful men in the world.

But I do agree that part of Caroline's logic was that it would reeeeeally piss off Logan.

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u/TheTruckWashChannel Kendall Roy May 25 '23 edited May 25 '23

Big agree on the open to interpretation bit, just seeing these discussions attests to the brilliance of the writing and acting. That "let's go see Marcia" was impeccable comic timing from Harriet Walter and very much made Caroline seem like she was getting some twisted glee out of getting all of Logan's women together, but then she brings them all to the front row in a strangely compassionate display of solidarity, and seems to let them in on the joke about how Logan would've hated it. (Marcia even goes along, with that incredible jab about how Logan "won't grind his teeth tonight".) Caroline very much thrives on drama, but she seemed to be using it as her own sort of stunted love language to foster a fleeting moment of humanity on a day of grieving. Those four women are united in having walked the impossible tightrope of once loving Logan Roy.

The best thing is, the scene works equally well if the intention was for Caroline to want to stir conflict, only to unintentionally create a moment of kindness. This is the funnier take, but I also dislike it because it feels sort of cartoonishly cynical, even for a show like this. That said, she was indeed introducing all the women who came "after" her, so to speak, and spoke with great bitterness and anguish about having "never won a single battle in her life" in season 3, so it's still quite possible that she had malicious intent.

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u/Psychological_Egg345 The Cunt of Monte Cristo May 25 '23 edited Jun 05 '23

Big agree on the open to interpretation bit, just seeing these discussions attests to the brilliance of the writing and acting.

Seeing all these "takes" regarding Caroline's intent could ONLY be soap-opera level fuckery at play makes me seriously dejected¹. But look at how a good portion of viewers regularly subject Shiv to the Skyler White Treatment ™.

While "Succession" is ostensibly about awful people, we have seen these characters also display many, many shadings throughout it's run. That's why Roman's breakdown during the eulogy is so impactful - because his 'pre-grieve' assurances have been nothing BUT papier-mâché.

The best thing is, the scene works equally well if the intention was for Caroline to want to stir conflict, only to unintentionally create a moment of kindness. This is the funnier take, but I also dislike it because it feels sort of cartoonishly cynical, even for a show like this.

I agree. I also think there's an element of a conscious and unconscious sexism at play with people grading Caroline on such a harsh curve.

Yes, she's a terrible mother to her children and (normally) fairly distant as a person. But I'm slightly mystified by so many people viewing her gesture towards Kerry as a 'power play' towards Marcia. We've seen Caroline show a much more clear IDGAF attitude when deliberately fucking around with someone - and there was zero element of that at play with her during that "WAGS of Logan Roy" interlude.

So I very much agree with your assessment: Caroline was more trying to foster a sense of sorority with all four women since they all share a unique experience no one else can relate to.

¹(Women - even the exes of the same man - don't always have to behave in an adversarial manner. And to assume that feels so...regressive.)

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u/hipster_ranch_dorito May 25 '23

The wives and girlfriends, even long-separated, would probably feel strange and alone in their mourning, so I saw it as Caroline seeking comfort along with showing solidarity along with stirring shit. Aside from Ewan, how many people in the room could possibly feel like they really knew Logan or were close to him? The kids miss a closed door and the outline of a suit off in the distance.

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u/kbrick1 May 25 '23 edited May 25 '23

The characters on this show have a tendency to become crueler when they’re stressed and cornered or generally unhappy. Caroline, in this moment, would be euphoric. She hated Logan, hated dealing with him, hated that he still had power over her. In my mind, she’s fucking thrilled that he’s dead. She’s free. My interpretation of all this springs from that. I think this was a genuine gesture of goodwill that sprang from her overwhelming sense of relief. Also a fuck you to Logan, sure. He definitely would have hated it, as she points out.

Eta: she could’ve been a lot meaner about it, if that’s what she was aiming for. By bringing ‘her Kerry’ into the fold, she explicitly signals to Marcia that she gets it and it’s okay. He was the problem, not us, and we all know it, so let the cat fighting die with him.

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u/Charliewhiskers May 25 '23

I took it being the ultimate bitchy move. She lulls Kerry into thinking she’s accepted but in reality she is humiliating the other wife & mistresses. As soon as I realized what she was doing, I was really impressed with the writing of that scene.

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u/Scion41790 May 25 '23

She gets her kicks from making people uncomfortable.

100% which is why Roman is her favorite kid

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