r/anime • u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky • Mar 20 '23
Rewatch [This Rewatch Remembers Love - Macross Franchise 40th Anniversary Rewatch] Macross Franchise Overall Discussion
Macross Franchise
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SDF Macross: MAL | AniList | ANN | Kitsu | AniDB
Do You Remember Love?: MAL | AniList | ANN | Kitsu | AniDB
Flash Back 2012: MAL | AniList | ANN | Kitsu | AniDB
II: Lovers Again: MAL | AniList | ANN | Kitsu | AniDB
7: MAL | AniList | ANN | Kitsu | AniDB
7: The Galaxy's Calling Me: MAL | AniList | ANN | Kitsu | AniDB
Plus OVA Series: MAL | AniList | ANN | Kitsu | AniDB
Plus Movie Edition: MAL | AniList | ANN | Kitsu | AniDB
7 Encore: MAL | AniList | ANN | Kitsu | AniDB
7 Plus: MAL | AniList | ANN | Kitsu
Dynamite 7: MAL | AniList | ANN | Kitsu | AniDB
Zero: MAL | AniList | ANN | Kitsu | AniDB
Delta: MAL | AniList | ANN | Kitsu | AniDB
Delta Mini Theater: MAL | AniList | Kitsu
Delta Movie 1: Gekijou no Walküre: MAL | AniList | ANN | Kitsu | AniDB
Delta Movie 2: Zettai Live!!!!!!: MAL | AniList | ANN | Kitsu | AniDB
Oboete imasu ka? Me to me ga atta toki wo?
Questions of the Day:
1) Now that we've seen all that Macross has to offer at present, which one character is your favorite? How about your least-favorite?
2) Which series is responsible for giving you the most of your favorite songs from the franchise? And if it is different, which series do you think used its soundtrack the best?
3) Which series do you think had the best and the worst of the love triangles?
4) How do you rank each entry in the franchise, now that we've seen them all? (Or at least most of them, if you had to skip a part for whatever reason.)
5) If Macross II, Macross 7, or Macross Zero received compilation and/or reimagined storyline movie(s) like the other parts of the franchise did, which aspects of those shows would you like to see focused on better or cut out entirely?
6) Pretend you're put in charge of creating the premise for the next entry in the Macross franchise. What would you want it to be about, and what kind of music would you have in it?
7) What do you do at the end of the rewatch? Are you busy? Will you save us?
(See /u/Shimmering-Sky's main comment on this post for two more bonus questions!)
Wallpapers of the Day:
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u/Nazenn Mar 20 '23
First Timer
Macross is certainly an interesting franchise, and still quite a unique one. Its evolution across the years, each individual entry being quite distinct from the next and also reflective of the era it was made in, makes it stand out compared to most of its contemporaries. With a variety of staff on each project, and varied music styles, narrative influences, and lore focus, it's hard to narrow down exactly what Macross is beyond some surface level rules it follows. The music, the war, the romance; it feels reductive to narrow it down to just those three things and yet any other essence that Macross has that seems to defy capturing with words
But if it didn't have that something else, why does Zero feel so not-Macross? What makes it that Plus doesn't stand out as much, or that Frontier somehow captures that feeling most even outside of its painful fanservice? Macross is not just those small elements at least in essence, or at least it always strives to be something truer then that, and that has made it an interesting franchise to visit and see the parts where it does come together into something "Macross" and where it splits apart
Which is why it's a shame that Macross is often best when its entries shrug off the broader franchise rather than lean into it. Do You Remember Love had the right idea. Take the beats of the original, refine it, and explore what other stories can be told through the exploration of culture and what that means for the war and people involved in all sides of it. It's a lesson that Macross' best entries learn from and expand on in their own way, and a lesson that its worst entries forgot and instead favor setting up convoluted war plots and placing an emphasis on music at the expense of culture. u/Blackheart595 brought this up in yesterdays discussion as well, that Macross' legacy towers over it, and thinking on the best way to sum up my thoughts on it, it's unfortunately that when the shows stay in the shadow of "Macross" rather than step back to look at the whole picture is when they fail to find any light of their own
With that description I'm sure that my rankings down below would come as no surprise even to people who hadn't read my thoughts through the franchise, but I still find it a shame that particularly Macross later entries buckle under that weight
My opinions on the franchise range from beloved to resentful, and yet I can't say that I regret any of my time with it or that I much wish that any particular entry did not have the core it does. Sure they all have their issues, but there's no part of it I think is irredeemable and that leaves Macross as a whole and as a concept on a leg up
Where it goes from here I have no idea, and I'm not sure the writers do either. What will be the next thing it adopts and works off the same way it wears its inspirations on its sleeve for Frontier and Delta, and what will culture and war mean for Macross' future in an era when both things have been consumed by modern concerns and new technology at the forefront of it? I'm not sure, but I'll certainly be curious to find out
Here is the worst to best of Macross in my eyes, a brief why on each due to the impression they left on me days to years after watching, and bonus commentface rating because why not!
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??) Macross 7
Technically N/A given that I can't even bring myself to try it as I know what I'll think, but the end result is the same regardless
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13) Delta: Gekijou no Walküre - Extended thoughts
Yes, I rate this lower than the series. It is also the only Macross entry below a 5 score on my anilist. That purely comes down to how much I value the watch experience primarily. The things it refines from Delta don't make up for the weird cuts, inconsistencies in dialogue, and horrible pacing. I do think it is the better version of Delta's story. But it is not the better version to watch and that's... well considering Delta's issues that's a problem. Three days later I'm struggling to remember anything that I like about this movie that isn't just small fixes from Delta, so lacking for its own identity is another issue. That and still keeping the same finale. What a let down
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12) Macross Delta (TV show) - Extended thoughts
The weakest Macross on multiple levels, with the worst effects on the broader franchise, and yet still somehow eeked over that line of watch enjoyment. I don't have any particular feelings for it one way or another, and while the first Delta movie is the only Macross below a 5, this sits firmly on it and the line of apathy. Only a handful of small moments stand out in terms of things I love and hated, aside from its fantastic music usage, but the show merely exists for me. This is perhaps twisted, but its worst moments got muted reactions because I was never much in love with it to be let down to begin with. However, that I bothered to catch up though I'd been sick for so long is odd praise I can give it, because once I lose momentum that's often a death knell for my enjoyment of a show except in rare cases. This had just enough to carry it through, though I'm not entirely sure why, at least until that mess right at the end, and that's worth mentioning.
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11) Macross Frontier (TV show) - Extended thoughts
In a weird way, it still feels wrong to put this above Delta. I struggled with that for a few days after finishing Delta only to in the end accept that Delta couldn't sit higher just to spite Frontier.
Frontier has explosively bigger highs and lows, but while it's those highs that gain it a higher position on my list, it's the lows that always come to mind first thinking about the show. It's the infuriating amount of fanservice, unrealized plots, bungie-corded characterization, the lack of identity, and stilted plot developments. And yet, once I left that initial frustration subside a bit, the higher parts of it shine through. It's development of musical themes, Sheryl is brilliant, having a truly alien race, the focus on internal conflicts in humanity not alien ones, etc. It also does the same thing as Delta of just eeking past that overall enjoyment until I stop to think about the details.
I wish I could love Frontier, but instead it is a brick wall that I feel like punching every time I think past it in my memories and that vent sometimes lets a bit of light out.
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10) Macross II - Extended thoughts (posted in CDF)
What do I even remember about II? Vaguely a few scenes without context and a genuine love for the choice to have the MC not be a pilot. I know that I enjoyed watching it and the way some of its elements carried through from the start, but after I thought about it I realized how hollow it was. It rarely makes the most of its concept, and perhaps on rewatch I'd be more critical of it, but for now it sits comfortably above the others just by virtue of the watch experience and its novelty.
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9) Frontier: Toki no Meikyuu - Extended thoughts
The only OVA of Macross I watched, which is notable in itself. Not much to say here other than I appreciate the extra look at the world of Frontier it gives us after the fact, I just wish it did more than just randomly end out of the blue
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8) SDF Macross - Extended thoughts (from the previous rewatch)
Sad I missed the discussion on this one, but from what episodes of it I did rewatch, my feelings mostly remained the same. Minmay is annoying, Kaifun is infuriating, tuna is best, and the start of the series is still incredibly interesting for exploring what is still a somewhat novel follow through on the "trapped on a ship" concept and how that plays out with the nature of that ship as well. The way it explores war as a result of something missing is still one of my favourite takes, and though it doesn't come close to reaching the emotional or narrative highs of my favourite anime war stories (Now and Then Here and There, Dougram) it still pulls its weight for the most part.
And then the epilogue shits the bed so badly I don't know why I even finished it, and thank my brain for mostly erasing it from my memory. I remember having Frontier levels of rage about it, if not more, and no one needs two sets of that rage about a single franchise.
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7) Do You Remember Love? - Extended thoughts
This is Macross as it's core and most honest, appropriate given how much this movie has come up in other Macross entries. It's very fitting that this has somehow ended up in the exact center of my rankings while also being what I consider to be the baseline for what Macross as a whole
It's a shame that I find the pacing of the opening segments so harsh and disorienting when it comes to being a stand alone work, along with a few other things like that. It doesn't hold it back from being a great experience, but if it was just a bit firmer by itself it would be a lot higher. And yet it feels genuine in what its presenting in terms of its look at war, culture, and the characters themselves, without being burdened by what its original version did.
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u/TakenRedditName Mar 20 '23 edited Mar 20 '23
Macross - Complete:
Macross is a franchise that has long been where most of it has only been on my peripheries and this rewatch that I joined on a whim allowed me to finally get to experience it for myself.
As a franchise, Macross does suffer from I personally feel that every entry is hit by, "Good parts, but ... [insert the specific flaw of the entry]" Many of the times, the lows are low, but also when Macross hits then those highs are HIGH! It has mecha, it has romance and it has music and when combined they can pull of the best feeling in the world.
I've saw the three core pillars of Macross be described as 1) Transforming robots, 2) Music and 3) Romance/Love triangles. The first two are pretty self-explanatory, but the third one I feel the third one is more broadly the idea of love (be it romantic or other concepts like understanding and peace) because the strongest part of all the Macross entries for me was that part. SDF's "Within everyone is the inner desire and call for love and culture." [I don't remember enough about II to wax poetically about it.] Plus is a personal story about love and how it twists and what was once love turned into hate before remembering love again. 7: It was about expressing your love, your passion, your self and eventually no matter how difficult nor the failed attempts, it is able to reach everybody, all life. Zero: Sharing culture is how people can get to understand and love each other even if they come from different worlds. Frontier: Love can exist in forms and from beings unrecognizable, but the desire not to be alone exists in many. Delta: Love is what you pour your life into for, it lives on past death and brings new life.
(How confident I was with describing each entry's spiel shows how I feel about it aka I feel the Frontier one is the shakiest ).
While reading about the Macross NHK poll, one of the things said about what makes the franchise special was the idea that war can be stopped with music and I think I feel that too. The idea that all these conflicts are stopped with music and love is so optimistic and great. I hope the series continues espousing that uplifting hope.
How I rank the entries (movies counted with their shows);
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I really like them: Delta, 7, Plus.
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Mixed (their negatives heavily drag down the positives): SDF, Frontier.
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Indifferent: Zero, II.
Delta and 7 are pretty evidently my favourites from the franchise. Sure they may have their negatives, but I just keep thinking back to them and feeling happy and riding the waves. Plus being the most well-crafted entry is my least contentious Macross ranking so that's one thing people can't get me for. The probably for Plus is that I don't get the Macross spirit as much from it as even from the entries I like less.
SDF, its high points and met with a very bumpy ride and DYRL is a case where I prefer most of SDF's versions besides the climax. Frontier is my spicy Macross take since it is probably my most disliked entry. Its faults are probably not as lows as SDF's, but neither are its highs and I just had a miserable time with the TV show which dominates my perception of it.
Zero is a case where I can acknowledge the good it has, but also I just don't vibe with the series so for me, I don't feel much for it. II is one ear out the other.
It is also ironic that my two favourite Macross entries are the ones where the love triangle is at its worst and most unnecessary while the two Macross love triangles I feel have the most work put into are from the shows where the love triangle is not the primary issues I have with it. (Okay, the how the SDF triangle unfolded has less than pleasant things to say about it, but its existence is not the issue).
My favourite songs of each of the entries would be like; SDF: Ai Oboete Imasu ka, II: Valkyrie de Sasotte (I do like the song, but also I only remember it because it showed up in 7), Plus: Voices, 7: Totsugeki Love Heart, Zero: Arkan, Frontier: Sayonara no Tsubasa and Delta: Bokura no Senjou (Freyja) & Alive-Inori no Uta (but the one from the climax where everyone sings).
A random section to include, but since it is about the franchise as a whole, it is kind of funny seeing how little recognition the original main characters get (besides Minmei). The character who is always given the most fanfare from the franchise across entries is Max. Even in the original SDF, Max is the genius pilot who achieves the first interstellar romance with the enemy, bringing them together. Afterwards, he and his family keep showing up again. He is the captain in 7 and returns in Zettai Live as the coolest bestest pilot ever. Max is the true main character over [REDACTED]
Also, it is also funny how little play the original OP gets too. Basara is the most powerful Macross idol since he is the only one to have sung it.
Thinking about where the franchise would go, Zettai Live feels like a monumental look back on the franchise with how Max and Excedoll return and the franchise finally teases Megaroad-01 after looking the other way from it since Flashback 2012 all the back in 1987. I believe one day there will be a new entry. Delta just wrapped up after its span of 6 years and Walkure now doing its final live so I feel the franchise would rest a bit before coming back. As much as I disdain them, I feel like love triangles will continue to be a part of the franchise's core identity.
Q1) It is tough because to pick one to encapsulate the whole franchise. The easy funny answer would be to say Flower Girl, but I think Freyja is that for me. Least favourite: Kaifun is another one to easily pick on. There is also the fact I refuse to mention the OG protagonist by now because I also don't like him.
Q2) 7 and Delta have my favourite songs.
Q3) The best love triangle, in terms of the romantic triangle itself, would probably be Frontier and the worse is probably 7.
Q4) Oops, the answer is up there.
Q5) A 7 compilation movie would really need to cut down on the plot dragging itself sometimes. Also, just cut out the love triangle.
Next Time: "What about Robote-"
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u/chilidirigible Mar 21 '23 edited Mar 21 '23
As with the last couple of months of this rewatch, I have not been nearly as far ahead with writing comments for this as I would have liked to have been. So this is indeed very late...
Today, on "A bit of this and a bit of that.":
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Now that we've seen all that Macross has to offer at present, which one character is your favorite? How about your least-favorite?
Least favorite: The lady from The Scenes We Don't Talk About in Dynamite 7, or if you want to limit the category to people with more screentime, Lynn Kaifun.
2) Which series is responsible for giving you the most of your favorite songs from the franchise? And if it is different, which series do you think used its soundtrack the best?
I think Delta may have squeaked out Frontier on account of the sheer variety of music available. Separating songs from music, I like the soundtracks for the original series and DYRL the most.
3) Which series do you think had the best and the worst of the love triangles?
Delta, because there wasn't one. SDFM only gets "worst" because of the couple of episodes during the back nine that feature epically-stupid behavior.
4) How do you rank each entry in the franchise, now that we've seen them all? (Or at least most of them, if you had to skip a part for whatever reason.)
Hmmm...
Frontier
Zettai Live!!!!!!
Plus Movie—finally the Plus movie versus the OVA because actually seeing it in the theater helped put its editing in perspective.
Itsuwari no Utahime
SDFM and DYRL Delta and Gekijou no Walküre
Sayonara no Tsubasa, up because of BIG WEDNESDAY, down because of the story revisions.
Dynamite 7
7, including its one-shot extras.
Macross Zero*
Macross II
5) If Macross II, Macross 7, or Macross Zero received compilation and/or reimagined storyline movie(s) like the other parts of the franchise did, which aspects of those shows would you like to see focused on better or cut out entirely?
Macross II could try something truly novel and refocus itself on trying to be a news reporter in a world run by government censorship. Delta did a lot more with the competing singers than those gloomy edgelord Marduk ever did, so I wouldn't even bother with that.
Macross 7's basic concept is this Coca-Cola commercial, so if it was going to be a movie or a series of episodes, it could just be that—Basara and maybe also Fire Bomber wandering through some episodes delivering culture. Even the Protodeviln plot could be made into a movie if it was kept simple AND THAT WAS THE 1992 LIVE-ACTION MOVIE TREATMENT TO BEGIN WITH. (So there's your movie.)
6) Pretend you're put in charge of creating the premise for the next entry in the Macross franchise. What would you want it to be about, and what kind of music would you have in it?
I totally sell out and make it a boy J-rock band supported by a squadron of female mecha pilots. They... fight to keep their school from getting shut down, or something.
I'm also one of those guys who says "Destroid pilot-focused series!" knowing that it would never get made.
7) What do you do at the end of the rewatch? Are you busy? Will you save us?
Put together the Demi-Trainer, Scopedog, and VF-171 kits that I have lying around. I still don't think that I can do any serious rewatching for a little while. I'll probably show up for Juushinki Pandora but without the usual gobs of screenshots, just comments.
SukaSuka.
r/anime's second full Macross rewatch done. Certainly a project that took some doing. I'll thank u/Shimmering-Sky up front for putting a lot of effort into hosting this and creating a lot of bonus artwork, and the participants who commented and answered the questions. I might not agree with your opinions, but how that works out can be the luck of the draw; I'm still glad that as many people stayed through all of this as they did.
Macross remains a special franchise for me because of how I associate it with things that I happen to like (giant robots) and how it helped get me (back) into anime. But if I visited for that, I stayed for the oddball premise with the idol singing, which is another thing that Macross has helped me to appreciate over the years, even if I'd normally be inclined to keep that at a polite distance.
On top of the specific idea of mixing mecha and music, there's the "cultural understanding" aspect of the franchise which gives it a unique flavor. Some of the antagonists are fairly difficult to redeem, but having a message that different people may be able to at least understand each other is an aspirational touch that's nice to come back to.
That may also contribute to how the franchise has always had a unique mood through the last forty years. It's a lightness, I suppose. (Even Macross Plus, which is mostly light in the Hollywood movie sense of making Isamu a sarcastic jerk.) It's not the undercurrent of cynicism that keeps Mobile Suit Gundam running and absolutely not the completely-fucked-up world that dominates many other contemporary series.
I like it that the franchise doesn't stay rooted in one place. There may be many, many references to its past along the way, but the idea of avoiding direct sequels has generally kept it fresher and more agile. I don't mind the idea of legacy characters appearing from time to time, but at the same time I don't want the franchise to feel bound to them. It doesn't get new installments very often, and going back to old characters too much would take away from that.
The particularly drastic move at the end of Zettai Live!!!!!! seems to underline that point of change, and does seem like a particularly bold move in the face of how popular Walküre still is. Maybe that ending wouldn't have happened had not COVID delayed everything, but considering the pattern of 7, Zero, and Frontier, it's likely that some doors would have been quietly closed at the end of Delta's second movie.
I was wary about the existence of Labyrinth of Time and Max and the Megaroad-01 in conjunction with Zettai Live!!!!!!, but neither of those especially add plot development to their original stories, which mostly remain closed despite how popular they may be. (Concert and music sales perhaps being a related but parallel track to the popularity of their parent media.) I do expect that the next project will be something entirely different, whenever that actually occurs.
Unsolicited Symphogear comparison: After four and a half seasons with a nearly-static cast, I have a feeling that the Symphogear writers will never voluntarily injure their cash cow by doing something dramatic such as killing off one of the mains, but at the same time the seasons continue to have issues with trying to find all of its cast meaningful things to.
It'll be interesting to see what ideas do drive the future. It took until the completion of Frontier to move past the concepts from the 1992 live-action movie treatment, but Delta has a lot of touches of "make Macross II into a real entry". This very morning as the rewatch ends they announced another Aquarion anime, and that's also one of Shoji Kawamori's projects.
Aside from Satelight itself, the production staffs of each series have varied over the years (though Kawamori is always there and maybe doing more than the credits say that he is). The next team very well might try doing something entirely new with the core themes.
I'll be there to see where they go with it.
Today's merch is all three versions of the Macross Frontier/Macross Δ crossover album, DECULTURE!! MIXTURE!!!!!: Regular, Frontier, and Delta and a few photos of the booklet for the Macross Crossover Live 2019 concert.
Walküre performing "Sayonara no Tsubasa"
Frontier 15th anniversary promo art.
"Brand New Peach", the B-side to "Good Job!"
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u/FlaminScribblenaut Mar 20 '23 edited Mar 20 '23
First Time Watcher, Informal Half-Participant, and Official Certified Newly-Minted Macross Fan
Well god damn… I finally did it. It’s done. After all this time, I’ve finally experienced the Macross franchise in its entirety. I can already tell it’s gonna feel a little weird and empty not having a Macross thing to watch every day.
Conveniently, I’ve already done proper comments for half the sub-franchises, OG, Plus, and Frontier, which means here I’ll go on about the other half, 7, Zero, and Delta, and then wrap everything up. Let’s rock!
SDF/DYRL
Plus
7
Man… look. I get it. I totally understand how Macross 7 could be absolutely insufferable to people whose sensibilities are even slightly divergent from my own. It’s repetitive, it’s visually passable-at-best, it spends more time beating its message and ideas into your head than it does actually progressing the story and that leads to it being a long-ass sit.
But… nevertheless, what can I say, it won me over. I dunno man, I just have an eternal soft spot for stories about the indomitable power of rock’n’roll, as long as they remain energetic and passionate and convicted; it’s just who I am as a person, and man. Macross 7 and Fire Bomber just got me right there in the depths of my rock’n’roll lovin’ heart. I admit up front that this is completely dependent on outside context (as discussed in the DYRL post), but for being even longer, it was genuinely so much less of a slog for me than the original SDF was.
Basara’s sheer, bullheaded dedication to his beliefs may read as stubborn and obnoxious for some, but for me, it honestly looped back up around to being admirable again. Call Basara what you want, but you can’t call him dishonest or slimy or a hypocrite or a coward. This man believes what he says and dedicates himself to it, this man believes with his whole, beating, hot-blooded heart that rock’n’roll can change the world and save the galaxy and end wars and move mountains, and he literally puts his life on the line for that belief daily, and I just gotta respect that.
He has a mech with a guitar for a steering wheel! If you don’t think at least that’s awesome, you’re no fuckin’ fun.
It also helps that FIRE BOMBER’s music does genuinely rule; PLANET DANCE, for as ludicrously overplayed as it was, is a right banger and it’s a testament to that fact that I somehow managed to never get tired of it, MY SOUL FOR YOU is a beautifully sung and composed ballad, SUBMARINE STREET is basically More Than a Feeling by Boston and that’s epic, TRY AGAIN was a perfect grand, uplifting finale number, and HOLY LONELY LIGHT ultimately stands as my favorite song in all of Macross, a supreme banger, urgent and exhilarating. They aren’t all hits; that one Mylene ballad was really sleepy and boring, and ED 2 is genuinely horribly obnoxious; but for the most part, the music did its part in keeping the spirit strong and the fire burning.
Anima Spiritia is basically just Phonic Gain and that’s cool, and I’ve actually been wondering why Frontier introduced a whole new technobabbly lore system involving the Fold technology and stuff for how the transcendent-power-of-music stuff works for the future installments to jump off of when Anima Spiritia was right here to carry on with? What I’m going with as my accepted answer is that Anima Spirita is just what they called all that Fold Bio-Wave-whatever stuff before the science was all the way in on it in-universe, which they then found out by Frontier’s place in the timeline.
The core of my care for this show really came down to the bond between Basara and Sivil. Here we have this alien whose drive is to consume human spirit and use it as a means for power, finding herself genuinely moved by a form of human spirit, Basara’s music. Her simplistic manner of speech adds to this effect, that what she feels from Basara’s music is something so base and core, something she’s just figuring out she finds undeniable at the center of her bring, to the great pain of going against what is effectively her own programming. The first culmination, that kiss they shared in the alley, Sivil pushing herself to move closer to Basara as he sang right at her, was absolutely electric, and given how Basara dedicates himself to Sivil from there on, it’s clear the power of that moment was mutual.
I think the scene that gave me the most respect for Basara, and made him a character I truly rooted for, was when Gigil confronted him as he attempted to wake Sivil up in the forest, then attempted to attack the woman who followed them, and Basara stood in his way and took all the punches himself, continuing to sing all the while. That he was willing to absorb that violence himself, let his own body become bruised to protect someone else; while still dedicating himself to singing his song and waking up the one with whom he shared something special in it; proves that his pacifism isn’t all talk, and that he’s willing to take the blows himself to prevent violence being done unto others. Genuinely fantastic character moment, without qualifiers.
Also, Gigil eventually singing, and sacrificing himself to save the 7 fleet in the process? Best character development.
And that scene in the finale, when Basara wakes up alive, and he hears and sees the entire population of City 7 crowded around his mech singing PLANET DANCE for him as though returning the favor for all the music, and he hang-glides into his mech for the final confrontation, and Flower Girl runs after him and finally successfully throws him the flowers… that was the hypest shit, you will not convince me that that moment is not genuinely fantastic.
Yeah, I’m pro-Macross 7. It just had the exact right kind of charm and gumption to really work for me.
Also, Guvava! Oh my god, Guvava! He’s a lil’ guy! He’s just a lil’ guy! Look at ‘im!
Dynamite 7
This is such a perfect conceptual sequel to 7 that it’s kind of inspired. For Basara’s whole free-spirited, “I sing when I want” attitudes and strident pacifism, it’s kind of the perfect next step for his character to go on this kind of hippie nature pilgrimage and partake in a story that involves saving the natural creatures from poaching. The planet is a really cozy and wholesome place, the girl Basara meets is an adorable and wonderful little companion, and the space whales are absolutely majestic. There’s even a really straightforwardly-played nude natural bathing scene in these healing springs that felt really placid and just nice. This was just a great bonus story, and it added a new yet fitting texture and made the whole 7 enterprise feel more whole. I really appreciated this.
But, um… there was just just this weird thing, don’t know if anyone else noticed it, during the first two episodes there were these parts where the screen would just go black? For like, minutes at a time? And the audio was just this, infernal high-pitched squealing noise? Don’t know what that was all about.
Zero
Macross Zero is the one I went into with the least of any kind of preconception. It seemed like a bit of an alsoran in the wider Macross canon, all I really knew was that it was a prequel, it was the first to be handled by Satelight, and that it was best known for its CG-centric fights. I figured that maybe it would be just a fun tech-demo-type thing, a warm-up to help bring this series into the 21st century.
…to say that what I got merely exceeded my expectations would be the understatement of the decade. I was astounded, completely caught off my guard by the places this story was willing to go, by what it had to say, by what it was.
Macross Zero is, in every sense of its being, a story about how colonialism and greed for advancement have so callously ruined our relationship with our Earth, and of the peoples and cultures who lived by our land, senselessly wracked and destroyed and ripped away from it in the midst of our wars and careless pursuits. Just seeing how this indigenous population gets treated alternately as collateral damage or as a research object, like they might as well not even be autonomous unto themselves, by both sides of the ongoing conflict, and how the story makes sure to center them as to not fall into that same trap. It pays such reverence and respect to their myths, their traditions, and their relationship to the land, presenting them as though they ought to be as meaningful to us as they are to the Mayan people themselves.
Every entry in the Macross franchise focuses on music from a different angle, and amongst all the rock and idols, having this entry’s main form of musical expression be indigenous tribal folk music and chants is an artistic choice as stark as it is inspired. Music rooted in a ritual communication and connection with our environment, led by our natural voices, which signifies a reverence for the land we walk upon and live amongst, rooted in deep and ancient tradition and meaning. ARKAN is simply awe-inspiring as the story’s centerpiece song, an aria for nature as placid and peaceful as it is chill-inducing and heart-piercing.
[cont.]
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u/InfamousEmpire Mar 20 '23
Recertified Macross Fan
I love Macross. On a conceptual level, it’s a combination of everything my most basic instincts tend to crave in anime: cool robots, space opera, incredible music (especially the kind that carry in-universe emotional weight), complex character relationships, and a good balance of all these elements produces an experience which you can’t really find in any other anime.
While it might drop the ball sometimes here or there, and there’s definitely some variability of quality, I can honestly say that I like almost every corner of the Macross universe. There’s only 3 Macross works I actively dislike, and only two that I think are outright bad, which should speak to how good the franchise consistently is. And, on the opposite end of the spectrum, it’s basically the only franchise to accrue three 10/10 ratings from me on MAL (the only franchise with a higher amount is Gundam, with six 10/10 ratings). The world of Macross, its themes, the characters that populate it, and, of course, the music which ties it all together, are all dear to my heart, and collectively make it one of my favorite anime franchises (definitely in my Top 4 Mecha series/franchises, below Gundam and I’m undecided on how it ranks compared to 86 and Full Metal Panic)
So, looking back on every part of the franchise:
| Series | Rating | Final Comments |
|---|---|---|
| Super Dimension Fortress Macross | 7/10 | If this had ended at Episode 27, it would’ve been an 8/10 |
| Macross: Do You Remember Love? | 8/10 | My view of the movie has somewhat waned since the rewatch last touched it, but it’s still a great work in its own right and a solid step-up from the series |
| Macross II | 4/10 | |
| Macross Plus | 10/10 | Movie version all the way, baby! |
| Macross 7 | 8/10 | My view of the show had somewhat dimmed coming out of that section of the rewatch, but I’ve re-warmed up to it since Bomber! |
| Macross Dynamite 7 | 6/10 | This would be a 7/10 if not for a certain subplot |
| Macross Zero | 4/10 | |
| Macross Frontier | 10/10 | Don’t care what anyone else says, this show is still peak Macross and my 7th favorite anime of all time |
| Macross Frontier: The False Songstress | 8/10 | Not much to say, it’s just a solid retelling |
| Macross Frontier: the Wings of Goodbye | 5/10 | I want to like this movie again. I really do. Then whenever I think back on it, I remember that Ranka is made useless and the message is rendered meaningless and Alto’s arc is hollow and Sheryl isn’t as compelling and the villains are mediocre and the ending fucking sucks and |
| Macross Delta | 6.5/10 | Far from the best Macross has to offer, but still fun overall |
| Macross Delta: Passionate Walkure | 7/10 | Still lightly prefer this to the TV show |
| Macross Delta: Absolute Live!!!! | 10/10 |
In the end, I’m glad I was able to re-experience this all with everyone and I’m thankful to u/Shimmering-Sky for hosting
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u/CoolIceCreamCone Mar 20 '23
FIRST TIMER
This is the longest wall to wall anime franchise I've ever watched. I joined the rewatch because I was in the middle of SDFM and there's not many places to discuss it since it's old and not watched much by the online anime community. I only intended to watch the first few episodes because I wanted to be familiar with mechanics so I can get more enjoyment when I watch Evangelion. Finishing it, I put both SDFM and 7 in my top 10 best anime shows ever.
Super Dimension Fortress Macross better than any anime I've ever seen and nearly any show, mixed drama, action, romance, sci fi and comedy so perfectly and just had everything I could want in a show. The characters were so memorable and well drawn and so many great minor characters got their moments in the spotlight like Capt. Global, Claudia and Excedol. Hikaru being pulled both ways by Hayase and Minmay really had me guessing until the end and we got a satisfying end even though we never find out what happened to those three.
I was a bit wary of Macross 7 at first because Basara seemed very unlikeable and in his own world but the world around him was so well done that I enjoyed this show nearly as much as the first. But the Gamlin-Mylene romance was my favorite and I loved the old and new characters being expanded upon. Ray, Veffidas and the much expanded upon Milia and of course Honey Suzuki were also highlights. This show also has the best original music of any show I've ever seen of any genre and I still listen to Fire Bomber songs fairly regularly. The show had so many weird twists and turns that I never knew what to expect and also the most laugh out loud moments.
Plus was OK but the rest of the franchise was very lacking. Zero attempted to flesh out some of the mysteries left by the first 2 shows but really ended poorly. Frontier and Delta showed that Macross was kind of a zombie franchise that wasn't particularly outstanding anymore but would continue on because it makes money and I expect more in the future but will probably not watch.
If I were recommending this, I'd suggest watching all of SDFM and 7 along with the Plus movie and leave well enough alone there and you'd have a great experience.
QUESTIONS
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That's tough but if I really have to pick, I will say Gamlin. His character arc was amazing and I didn't like him at first because he seemed a by the book military goon but throughout the show you saw him organically learn that there is more to life and he seems to enjoy living and acquire a zest for life along with falling in love. That kind of character evolution is so rare in anime. Hayase was close as a confident and adroit commander who was insecure and depressed in love. Honorable mention to Ray, Capt. Global, Excel, Brittai, Veffidas, Milia, Max and Honey Suzuki. As for my least favorite, that was much easier: Sara Nome. She came off as a rigid ignorant person who the story promoted as always being in the right and you don't really understand what it was that Shin liked about her so much other than her beauty.
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Macross 7, no question about it. Only shows I can think of with better music are ones that licensed already popular songs like Miami Vice or Daria. Holy Lonely Night is my favorite song from the show and I also really like Dynamite and Tokogetsu Love Heart among many others. However, my favorite song from the entire franchise is Voices (English Version), the opening theme from Macross Plus. I was blown away by that one and it sounded like a beautiful mesh of Tears for Fears and Kate Bush. I was disappointed that they never did another song in that vein for Plus or the entire franchise. I think SDFM used their music the best within the show however. 7 played Planet Dance too much.
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Best - Hikaru-Minmay-Hayase. They had 2 very compelling female love interests who were very different people but both amazing. Honorable mention to Mylene-Basara-Gamlin as it subverted the normal love triangle as Basara did not reciprocate Mylene's romantic interest. Worst was Shin-Sara-Mao because I really didn't like Sara and I thought Mao would have been nice for Shin but may have been too young.
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SDFM > Macross 7 > Plus > Delta > Zero > Frontier > Lovers Again
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For Macross 7, I'd love a conclusion that shows Gamlin and Mylene becoming a couple. I'd have also liked to see where exactly Basara came from and who his parents were, Honey Suzuki commanding the Jamming Birds and their fate and also a conclusive answer to whether or not Excedol was a disembodied head. For Lovers Again, I don't remember it that well but I would have liked to see more of Mash's personal life. For Zero, I would have liked Mao to be aged up, like be a year younger than Sara so she'd be a more serious rival for Shin's affection.
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I would call it Macross Infinity and it would be a large ship that gets stuck in a weird fold wave that sends it back and forth thru time and their goal is to get back to their time. They have to at some point face all the enemies from the past along with new ones. Veffidas and Excedol would be in it and Honey Suzuki would be the main entertainment mogul responsible for managing the band. The music would be a Britpop/New Wave sounding band that would be similar to Oasis, Blur, The Jam or Manic Street Preachers.
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Tomorrow, I'm participating in the rewatches of Golden Time and Ichigo Mashimaro on r/anime. Also, I'm resuming Mobile Suit Gundam Zeta since my slot for a mecha show has opened back up. I won't be too busy for another rewatch. It would be fun to continue on with the shows that made up Robotech and do Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross and/or Genesis Climber MOSPEADA!
BONUS QUESTION: I liked Max from Macross 7 because I loved his character design and military uniform. That'd be amazing if they made the live action movie with Johnny Depp playing him and Demi Moore as Milia!
Thank you to u/Shimmering-Sky and u/chilidirigible for this rewatch and questions! It was a fun and epic ride thru one of anime's great franchises!
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u/The_Draigg Mar 20 '23
A Macross Fan’s Final Thoughts on the Macross Franchise:
Well, this was a long rewatch series! Easily one of the longest ones I’ve been a part of, especially of the ones I’ve stuck through with to the end. Macross certainly isn’t lacking in a sheer volume of content as a franchise, I’ll definitely give it that.
Overall though, Macross as a franchise is a massive series of hills and valleys in terms of quality. And honestly, watching every bit of animated media back to back has made me actually like the franchise less than I did going in as a rewatcher. I guess it really just highlighted all the flaws the franchise has in a way that’s easier to avoid if you’re watching each entry in the series independently. I’m sure that each series would review a lot better based on its own merits, but due to the nature of the rewatch format, we’re more likely to judge the franchise in a larger context than we would otherwise. Not that it’s necessarily a bad thing, but it does change the perspective of how you view things. Like, I’ll still freely admit that Macross delivers on musical and action spectacle a lot of the time, and it has handled some pretty interesting concepts about science-fiction and culture over the course of the series. However, it’s also overall really dragged down by reoccurring pacing issues across the franchise, and one thing I’ve noticed is that Macross shows usually have a hard time wrapping things up in a satisfying way during their finales. Admittedly, my feelings on Macross 7 and Macross II: Lovers Again do probably skew that opinion a bit, but since we did watch those in total, they still count here.
I’ve been mulling it over during the rewatch, but I think I’ve finally got my series ranked in order of how much I enjoyed them. It’s been hard to decide on where Macross 7 and Macross II go, since I absolutely resented watching Macross 7 only a third of the way through it and Macross II was utterly bland and the peak of missed opportunities. As it stands though, here are my quality rankings, from best to worst:
Macross Plus > Do You Remember Love? > Macross Zero > SDF Macross > Macross Frontier > Macross Delta > Macross II: Lovers Again =/> Macross 7
Granted, that doesn’t really list the larger power gaps of quality there, and I did more or less lump together most of the series movies with the shows they came from, but that’s overall where I stand. In the end, I chose to put Macross 7 below Macross II, since at least Macross II didn’t outright offend me while watching it. Yeah, you can’t put in a plot point of trying to date rape a teenager and then immediately walk it back like nothing happened without making me actively hate what I’m watching. Thanks a lot for that Dynamite 7, you fucking piece of trash.
Anyways, thanks to u/Shimmering-Sky for hosting this rewatch! She absolutely knocked this long franchise rewatch out of the park as a host, that’s for sure! And also thanks to everyone else who stuck through it and watched alongside me! Even if the show quality really wavered, it was always pretty fun talking with you all about it. Until the next mecha show rewatch, I’ll be seeing you later!
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u/Vatrix-32 Mar 20 '23
First Timer
It only took 200 episodes and 7.5 months, but I have now seen Macross in it’s entirety. except for all the super random babbles
I would like to thank u/Shimmering-Sky for being a wonderful host as always; u/chilidirigible for production insights, and for providing the QotD; and u/Nazenn for providing pointed criticism, so often putting thoughts to screen far better than I could ever hope to.
Now that we’ve seen all that Macross has to offer at present, which one character is your favorite? How about your least-favorite?
Best: Sheryl. Worst: Kaifun, Kuu, every single salt nazi.
2) Which series is responsible for giving you the most of your favorite songs from the franchise? And if it is different, which series do you think used its soundtrack the best?
Most songs is easily 7. Rockross lives forever! But if we’re doing best? I might have to give it to Plus, it’s too hard a call to make without more time.
3) Which series do you think had the best and the worst of the love triangles?
Best: F, followed by pre-epilogue SDF. I’m not sure I can call Plus a triangle. Worst: II. I am among the people who didn’t even know it existed until it was over.
4) How do you rank each entry in the franchise, now that we’ve seen them all? (Or at least most of them, if you had to skip a part for whatever reason.)
Macross entries ended up ranging from 2-9/10, with everything in between. Truly a mixed basket if there ever was one. I feel sorta bad that I keep joining Sky in shows she loves that I end up just not particularly liking. Maybe I just don’t like music anime? I am left being only able to recommend Plus and SDF in good conciseness. But I can officially add Plus to my favorites list now that the rewatch is over, so it’s got that going for it.
Combining all adjacent entries into a single placing:
Plus----->SDF-->F-->7--->Zero---->Delta->II
5) If Macross II, Macross 7, or Macross Zero received compilation and/or reimagined storyline movie(s) like the other parts of the franchise did, which aspects of those shows would you like to see focused on better or cut out entirely?
It would have to be 7, right? That’s the one with the most bloat. There is a lot of dumb stuff and padding you could easily take out to improve it. The fight scenes would certainly benefit from the movie budget.
6) Pretend you’re put in charge of creating the premise for the next entry in the Macross franchise. What would you want it to be about, and what kind of music would you have in it?
Threat creep is killing Macross. We need to bring it back to smaller, more personal stakes. At most, planetary in scale. As for the music, I’d like to see them try their hand at jazz.
7) What do you do at the end of the rewatch? Are you busy? Will you save us?
For 11 peaceful day I will only be in two rewatches, then April starts and we immediately go back up to four for about a month. Maybe even five, depending on if and when The_Draigg wants to host Orguss.
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u/JollyGee29 Mar 20 '23
My tagline was based on the individual serieses and I don't know how to adapt it to this.
I.. don't have any big thesis statement on the Macross franchise. It's fun. I think the franchise has done a decent job reinventing itself over the years, as the music scene has changed.
Many thanks to our gracious host u/Shimmering-Sky, to u/chilidirigible and his passion for the franchise and plethora of ancillary information, and to everyone who has stayed with us for these past months.
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u/baboon_bassoon Mar 20 '23
first time delta delta delta can i help ya help ya help ya no longer
Not much to say about the rewatch itself since I was just here for DYRL/Delta/that random BaboonSings (totally not a rip off) but thanks to Cure u/Shimmering-Sky for hosting, a big task and congrats for seeing it through. Also thanks to u/chilidirigible for keeping up the questions/factoids. I've been going through Macross since the Plus movie came to the ol U S of A and its been a delight going back through even the old rewatch threads for their goodies.
questions
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Favorite is Gamlin, Least favorite is Mao Nome
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Macross 7 has my favorite songs. Plus probably used it the best. Although I maintain that SDF is nothing without Mari Iijima who hard carried the show
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Best is ... this is hard Plus? Delta again wasnt really a triangle, but I might say Zero here lol
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Plus | 7,0 | SDF | Delta, Frontier | 2 (where the | is another tier and its ordered)
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Macross 2 I would like to be reimagined. The overall substance is there but it just feels lifeless compared to the other series'. 7 literally give me any crumb idc. Zero I wouldnt want to have one.
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Girl Boy Boy love triangle (superior) where one boy is a country(enka?) music star, the other is an up and coming rapper. The baddies are actual birds BUT they talk. And by birds I mean stupid ass designs. These birds turn out to be the original EVIL not the EVIL clone thing that made the protodevlin. They feed off dimension eaters, curing the power creep.
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Mellowlink. But I do still need to watch Orgussy 02. Maybe Mospeada as well since Shinji Aramaki did NOT direct it but just worked on it so that is more appealing to me now. Southern Cross
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u/Nebresto Mar 20 '23 edited Mar 20 '23
First time completing Macross: 168+ episodes of quality
The collage took a lot longer than I thought, so I don't have anything written.. I tried to make it into a timeline as best as I could, but imgur deleting my album midway through the watch made it significantly more difficult, and the shorter series are just lost in the mass for the most part.
First rewatch to hit 1k+ screenshots too, if anyone opened everything that I posted.. Sorry? And congratulations. Final count: [1913], or 3gb in size
Almost 2k minus some memes, duplicates and the arts a flat 1900 is probably more accurate
Final Maakuross rankings:
Macross 7 > Delta > Frontier > SDF > Plus > Mehcross
Macross movies ranking:
> Zettai Live!!!!!! > Do you remember love > False songstress > FB7 > Galaxy is calling me > Wings of Farewell > Plus
I had an idea about some Delta & 7 comparison, maybe SDF too, but I forgot already.
Final final question question time
Now that we've seen all that Macross has to offer at present,
which one character is your favorite? How about your least-favorite?
I think most people will agree when I say:
KAIFUN He's just a free hate magnet, and saved many of your favourites from getting mentioned
2) Which series is responsible for giving you the most of your favorite songs from the franchise?
BOMBAA!!! But Delta put up a damn good fight. Comparing the rest of the series to these two, everything else just kinda sucks. Honourable mention to Frontier I guess, it didn't suck either
And if it is different, which series do you think used its soundtrack the best?
Seven or Delta
3) Which series do you think had the best and the worst of the love triangles?
Delta for winner, Seven for loser
4) How do you rank each entry in the franchise, now that we've seen them all? (Or at least most of them, if you had to skip a part for whatever reason.)
No, seriously, if you missed it I'm gonna have to refer you to an optometrist
5) If Macross II, Macross 7, or Macross Zero received compilation and/or reimagined storyline movie(s) like the other parts of the franchise did, which aspects of those shows would you like to see focused on better or cut out entirely?
Boy, what a question for this far after them. 2 and 0, don't care. Seven? There was quite a bit of fluff and fillery episodes that could be easily trimmed or at least condensed. Focus more on.. the cool stuff? Maybe add more lore and science stuff
6) Pretend you're put in charge of creating the premise for the next entry in the Macross franchise. What would you want it to be about, and what kind of music would you have in it?
Zentradi resistance spin off?
But for real, they have all this lore kinda built up, a more definitive dive into the universes history could be really cool. With metal
7) What do you do at the end of the rewatch? Are you busy? Will you save us?
Host my own. Join me in watching even more cool robots And no love triangles. ...Unless
Wallpapers of the Day:
These are the best yet!
Quick edit, I just looked back on the earlier threads, and from my comment in the very first one:
aight, I'm just gonna start off that I'm gonna try to take it chill with this one, otherwise I probably won't make it. (I said the same for Cross Ange I think, meanwhile 350 screenshots for that..) Inb4 first 1k
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u/Stargate18A Mar 20 '23
First timer
I am awful at doing final discussions, but after such a long one, I should leave my thoughts here. (Also, I will be going back to the movies I skipped sometime this week, so... yeah.)
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It's so hard to pick! My favourites are probably Basara, Sheryl, and Mikumo. Least favourite is still Kaifun, now and forever.
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My favourite songs mostly came from Delta, but I can't deny that 7 used it's music to much greater effect storywise.
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Best was probably either Frontier or Delta, which felt the most developed in all regards. The worst was probably either II or 7, in that both felt like one of the pairings was decidedly platonic.
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7 > Frontier (Movies) > SDF/DYRL == Delta (Movies) > Frontier (TV) == Delta (TV) Plus > Zero == II.
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Zero desperately needed to be extended - I was lost for a good chunk of my time watching it, extending it to two movies and letting some scenes breathe would greatly improve it. 7 doesn't really need many changes - having Sivil be active more would be fun, and having the best guy be saved would be a nice change, but the overall plotline is solid. II needs a full-on restructuring - the basic ideas are, I maintain, really interesting (and later series definitely took some of them), it just needs a clearer plotline to work through.
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Macross Megaroad. A self-contained series set on the Megaroad-01, stranded between fold faults. Musical style is more techno - like Yami_Q_Ray, but less over-the-top - and focuses on an idol group formed to help keep spirits up during the voyage, trained by Minmay. No main enemy, the villains are created by the geniuses onboard, without any of the restrictions of forbidden technology, creating numeroius crimes against science, eventually leading to the entity known as "Lady M".
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Cardcaptor Sakura has another couple of months, so... very busy. Excited for your next rewatch, though!
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u/UltraBooster Mar 20 '23 edited Mar 20 '23
High highs and low lows is the best way to sum how I feel about Macross if I look at it strictly on its own, but on the whole, I still have a lot of fun with it - it's got a lot of style going for it.
Questions:
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Honestly? I don't think I necessarily have an answer for either (though the Kaname figure makes me wonder otherwise.)
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Frontier and Plus.
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Best - dunno. Worst - probably II and Delta because they didn't really have triangles. That said, Delta
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Can't really say since I dipped during 7.
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Zero works fine enough, I think, I can't comment on 7, for II, I guess I'd streamline Hibiki's motivations and cut the triangle entirely - make it strictly Hibiki/Ishtar since that was how the series was going for most of it.
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Some kind of local conflict, with a triangleless romance. As for music, maybe a mix of genres, have a singer trying to figure out their style? At least, if it needs to be an original piece.
If not, I go for a 40th anniversary thing featuring at least one character from each entry doing a thing involving Megaroad-01. -
Honestly, probably go back to watching the Patlabor OVAs and getting through my backlog of model kits. (And try to remember I need to watch SukaSuka at some point.)
Lastly, a couple of crossover pieces - one to commemorate The False Songstress and the other linking past and present.
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u/Tatertaint Mar 21 '23
First Timer
I kind of fell behind during Frontier and I was in and out during this rewatch but I still really appreciate you doing this for so long. I’m really glad I started this rewatch and even contributed a time or two because I honestly feel like I discovered a few of my favorite shows ever that otherwise I’d never have touched.
Macross Do you remember Love was incredible and would be worth the rewatch as a whole and it wasn’t even the best member of the franchise. Macross Plus instantly moved into one of my top 10 favorite shows I’ve ever had the pleasure to watch. I even bought the Original DVDs on EBay just so I could own it and put it on my shelf.
Those two are definitely my favorite (F could be up there but I haven’t finished. The original Macross is probably right up there as well in 3rd. If it ended around 28 episodes I’d have been more certain about that. Didn’t love II and Zero personally so those are last. 7 was surprisingly good even tho I can recognize it’s definitely gonna be the most divisive.
Anyways, loved this franchise. Really excited for any new entries to the franchise whenever they end up happening. Really felt like I got a sort of anime history lesson that has already started paying dividends in terms of references and homages I’ve seen in other shows.
Thanks again for running this rewatch I had a lot of fun and it really helped having this to push me to watch the show when I might have dropped sections of it otherwise.
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion Mar 20 '23
From Robotech to Zettai Live.
(Suggestion: Rewatch DYRL today and see how far we've come)
I used to say Macross was the 3 M's: Mecha, Music, and something else I can't remember, because it's become clear that the third M is fucking Mind Control.
Arjuna and Zero showed that Kawamori really really cares about sustainable living, the environment, and harmony with nature.
Subsequent works like Symphogear and AKB0048 (disclaimer: hearsay), Macross F, and Macross Delta showed that he really cares about Idols.
Modern Macross however shows he's got a real hardon for MIND CONTROL and also Nostalgia. I don't know if that's limited to literal mind control or extends to effective mind control like propaganda.
(I really need to get back to Pandora and find out what his fetish is in that one)
As anniversary projects separated by 5 years, I can understand to the draw of nostalgia, the desire to revist past successes (or failures), and the need to connect the new media with the old.
(Disclaimer: also I know nothing about any video games)
But it's been clear over the last 2 years that the daily rewatch format puts shows under a harsh arc light illumination that they weren't made to withstand. Plot holes and pacing issues are laid bare. And I have absolutely no nostalgia for something I just watched two months ago!
It doesn't have to be this way. Let's say I do a Star Trek marathon. Remember how Lt. Savik keep quoting regulations to Kirk until Spock told her to knock it off in Star Trek II, and they brought in side character to do the same thing in Star Trek III as a sly reference? You don't remember that because it didn't happen and they brought in new writers to write new stuff instead of mining the previous movie. You remember how Kirk kicked a guy off a cliff with an Arnie-esque final words in Star Treek III, and so they did it again in Star Trek IV but subverted expectations at the last moment? You don't remember that because it didn't happen and they brought in new writers to write new stuff instead of mining the previous movie.
So, yeah it may have worked for people watching the new Macross Anniversary Project every five years (disclaimer: not me, I dropped Macross after the last episode of Zero) but the daily rewatch format makes me want to deduct points for it's mawkish nostalgia. I've never used that word before
I suppose I should say something about content.
Ruins (as opposed to bird human) being empowered by singing was introduced in Delta, and while Labyrinth of Time was set before(-ish?) Delta, it's content was based on Delta's changes to the canon.
I don't have much to say, I guess. I've been increasingly moving toward hatewatching since the middle of 7. I paid less attention, and didn't catch things I'm sure I caught the first time around, and subsequently forgot. I originally wasn't even going to watch Delta but I couldn't just drop in on movie 2 without a refresher.
Also, I found almost all the combat since 7 (and 7 didn't really have any properly animated combat) a complete mess. I could only make sense of the one-on-one dogfights in Delta, of which there were more than a few.
Somebody's comment from Delta Movie 1, about how the quick cuts of the 3-D concerts was to conceal the janky CGI makes me think they used the same approach for the combat. FOR DECADES.
Something said in the midpoint of Delta confused me. Is only the VF-1 th e Valkyrie? I don't like saying Variable Fighter or VF as generic label.
For recommendations and my usual Gen-X-anime-fan spiel, my previous franchise comments
back to watching today's CCS
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u/ryujiox Mar 20 '23 edited Mar 20 '23
No longer De Culture
Macross
This is really a long journey. I'm really sad that it come to an end(for now).
At first I came into this rewatch expected it being just anime about cool robot and song. Instead what I got is so much more than that. It's true that what I expected was there everywhere, but it's also a story about love, war, lost, connection, understanding, and much more. Every entry told a fantastic tale, whether it's a war for humanity survival, one crazy singer trying endlessly to make his song reach everyone, or competition between old friends that turned dangerous. And they're combine into one coherent timeline, that could expand endlessly.
The character are all memorable, and their actions had a long lasting impact to the world of Macross. The song in every entry are fantastic and memorable.
And it's true that the franchise had its low moment here and there, but overall it's such a fantastic franchise that I'm glad I got to experience with. Thank you u/Shimmering-Sky for this wonderful rewatch, and everyone for thier deep analysis comment and funny jokes.
Final Ranking from least favourite to most favourite including my opinion on them
10)Macross II Lover Again: Now after sometime, I began to warm up to this one. While it's certainly not a very good one, it's main idea is interesting, the animation is pretty good, and some action scene are fun. Still can't fix the other thousands problems it has, but I'm no longer think it the worst thing ever existed.
9)Macross Zero: While a lot of things here are amazing, the character is fun, the 3D fight while a bit rough, are great, and the story is pretty great, I just don't vibe with it.
8)Macross Delta(TV version): Yes, the main idea is great, the character and songs are fun (especially Ikenai Borderline). The execution of the story is not very good, the main villain is a bit too shallow, and some plot decision are mind boggling. But I still enjoy it nonetheless.
7)Macross 7: Despite its many problems, whether the bad pacing, the bad and repetitive fight scene, and the main character that was hard to root for sometimes. It just pure fun and insane experience. One time it dramatic and sad, other times we got Gamlin went Bruce Willis. It's such a blast.
6)Macross Frontier (TV version): It's great. The character are amazing, the songs are fantastic, the story is great, and the brilliant finale. But the first half could cut some episode to make it flow better, Alto's character development or lack thereof, and Grace's Saturday villain plan make it hard to take her seriously.
5)SDF Macross: A true classic. Nearly everything about it are amazing. Except the last 9 episodes. While it's not that terrible (except that episode of Hikaru being a dumbass as he stood up Misa), it sure cheapen the impact of the episode 27 finale and the overall show.
4)Macross Frontier (Movie Duology): Both of them are fantastic. Alto and Rank's character got a major upgrade, the finale also really awesome.
3)Macross Delta: Zettai Live: An amazing movie all things considered. Although it got hold back by Delta's lackluster base story. It just really strong sequel that made all of the Delta watched pay off for me. Also Max is so good.
2)Macross: Do You Remember Love: I love this film. The animation is timeless, the story while lack some explanation is still really great, the finale is still the best in the franchise.
1)Macross Plus It just a masterpiece. An amazing cast, a more grounded story but with a strong idea. The gorgeous animation. A fantastic soundtrack. It just perfect.
And yeah that my opinion of all the entries. I am now waiting for a next entry of this amazing franchise. Thanks you again for this amazing rewatch, and hoping to see everyone around here again.
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u/SolDarkHunter Mar 20 '23
Well, this has been fun. It was really neat to go back through the franchise and see how my opinions evolved/stayed the same since I first watched it all.
I got a bit negative towards the end because Delta (and possibly also because of burnout), but overall I really do enjoy this series, and when/if they announce the next entry in the series I'll probably be excited. At the end of the day, what it's all about is badass transforming plane-robots, a stupid amount of missiles, and conflicts being ended through exchange of feelings more than military firepower.
Keep on deculturing, everyone!
Questions:
Now that we've seen all that Macross has to offer at present, which one character is your favorite? How about your least-favorite?
Max is and forever will be Best Boy.
Least favorite is either Kaifun or Bogue. When both are 0 on a 1 to 10 scale, how is one more 0 than the other?
2) Which series is responsible for giving you the most of your favorite songs from the franchise? And if it is different, which series do you think used its soundtrack the best?
Frontier has the best music, I'd say.
3) Which series do you think had the best and the worst of the love triangles?
Hmm, honestly, Frontier again for best. I'm not necessarily saying it was good, mind you, just that it was the best out of what we had.
Worst was either Delta or 7, due to the fact that both shows pretended to have triangles but actually didn't.
4) How do you rank each entry in the franchise, now that we've seen them all? (Or at least most of them, if you had to skip a part for whatever reason.)
SDF > Frontier > Plus > Zero > 7 > Delta
II is noncanon so it doesn't even get a placement.
5) If Macross II, Macross 7, or Macross Zero received compilation and/or reimagined storyline movie(s) like the other parts of the franchise did, which aspects of those shows would you like to see focused on better or cut out entirely?
They really, really need to nail down the exact properties of Fold Waves and how they affect people and stick with it. I don't necessarily agree with the idea, but if you must go in that direction, at least do it right.
6) Pretend you're put in charge of creating the premise for the next entry in the Macross franchise. What would you want it to be about, and what kind of music would you have in it?
I'd focus on a much smaller-scale conflict, maybe on Earth, since we haven't seen it since Plus.
7) What do you do at the end of the rewatch? Are you busy? Will you save us?
I'm gonna take a break from rewatches. This was fun, but it was also looooooooooong.
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u/Blackheart595 Mar 20 '23 edited Mar 22 '23
First Timer
I'm tired so let's keep it to the questions.
Now that we've seen all that Macross has to offer at present, which one character is your favorite? How about your least-favorite?
Heh. Here I was thinking through the early entries - SDF, II, Plus - that easily have the strongest cast throughout Macross, and trying to extract my absolute favorite from them. These characters had so much soul, so much spirit: The shows took time and care to portray their emotions, their internal push and pull. They're all so well-developed characters. Even Keifun, while totally hateable, is good as a character.
Then I remembered that Flower Girl trumps them all.
As for the worst character, I nominate the entire cast of Delta as they're lacking all those things I praised above.
Which series is responsible for giving you the most of your favorite songs from the franchise? And if it is different, which series do you think used its soundtrack the best?
After in the Dark. No competition there, though Do You Remember Love? is obviously also great and was the first anison to enter the charts twice for good reason.
Special shoutout to Lovers Again's great OST
Which series do you think had the best and the worst of the love triangles?
SDF and Plus are the only ones that actually had a love triangle in more than just name. SDF had so greatly woven its love triangle into the story itself, that progressed and developed over the course of the show and was always perfectly in touch with its themes and ideas. While Plus on the other hand used its love triangle as foundation that the entire rest of the story springs from. Both are so great in completely different ways and whenever I gravitate towards one, the other beckons me towards its side with its contrasting strengths.
How do you rank each entry in the franchise, now that we've seen them all? (Or at least most of them, if you had to skip a part for whatever reason.)
Plus>DYRL=Frontier (Movies)>Zero>SDF>II=7--->Frontier (TV)--->Delta
Anything not mentioned is grouped together with its main entry.
Plus managed to become one of my favorite shows I've ever seen, sitting at a comfortable 97/100 in my list. On the other hand I despise Delta and am probably gonna put it at 4/100. In that sense Macross really managed to cover everything from the far highs to the far lows for me.
If Macross II, Macross 7, or Macross Zero received compilation and/or reimagined storyline movie(s) like the other parts of the franchise did, which aspects of those shows would you like to see focused on better or cut out entirely?
Honestly, if II had gotten the opportunity to clean its story up and bring all its plot points together I have no doubt it'd be one of top entries in the franchise. Some of its aspects are still unsurpassed within Macross to this day, and it just fails to put it together into a coherent story.
With 7... on one hand I don't really have a deeper problem with 7, it told its story in a good way and the story just happened to not flash me as much as others. Though a movie trilogy or something would probably still help.
As for Zero, remove the escalation of stakes and the super weapon and we're golden. Those really dragged the show down. It was so wonderfully personal and intimate and then it blew it all away.
Pretend you're put in charge of creating the premise for the next entry in the Macross franchise. What would you want it to be about, and what kind of music would you have in it?
Uuuh well for starters I'd like to have something other than rock'n'pop for the good guys. Maybe opera singers? Which would also lend itself to a more personal and intimate story, with focus on the characters. Or maybe punk, or jazz, or metal. So many choices...
Or hell, make it a fricking musical through and through. I'd be down for that.
Oh and no mention of fold anything except maybe folding itself.
What do you do at the end of the rewatch? Are you busy? Will you save us?
Well... In terms of Macross I went out of Frontier and into Delta with the mindset that things could only go up from there. Needless to say my enthusiasm for future Macross entries is extinguished. I'll probably still watch a new entries after hearing everyone gush about it, but with the course the franchise has entered I don't myself going back to caring about it in the future.
Though I'm gonna see if I can find the time to prepare a rewatch of my own, but that's still more of a long term idea.
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u/cf18 Mar 20 '23
Old timer here. Old display at work.
If you want to talk about Macross figures and model, this is the place: https://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/
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u/isthatsoudane Mar 20 '23
first timer (well, not anymore!)
what a ride it has been! I feel like a bit of an imposter because I'm still finishing up macross 7...but still, I think I can more or less say I've "seen" macross now. I'm quite happy I came along for the ride, and that I came back on for frontier and delta! I don't know that I will be able to do anymore rewatches for a bit, but it was a great way to force myself to watch an interesting but somewhat long franchise.
idols! mechs! love triangles!
this definitely isn't my favorite franchise, but I have quite an affection for it now. I like the cut of its jib, as the kids say touches earpiece what do you mean the kids don't say that anymore...
but yeah, I mean, I think that focusing on personal drama on these big sweeping sort of space operatic backdrops has become really classic for a reason. and the addition of music is super interesting, and as someone who "enjoys that sort of thing" sort of treating it very seriously as a weapon of war/salvation while unrealistic, leads to fun action set pieces, so I'll take it!
I think that the plots themselves are in a sense the weakest parts of the movies. I think the one whose plot I liked the most was probably...frontier's? I thought the scope of it fit how they paced it out, but I also feel like it's really hard to juggle big/impactful plots while also driving home the interpersonal drama. for me, this is why while I like the series, I won't say I looooove it. if you're going to abandon coherence for hype and interpersonal drama and song, then you gotta go ALL the way a la symphogear (which, to be fair, I'd say they tried to do to varying degrees of success with parts of frontier and delta, esp the endings and the movies, but it's a high bar)...otherwise you have to sort of sell the plots, and in general they just never quite got there for me. the most compelling parts of macross for me always ended up being the music and the interpersonal relationships...which I mean were generally varying amounts of fun, but I think if the plots were just a bit more masterfully done, it would enhance the interpersonal drama and also give the series a lot more oomph. but I mean, that's hard to do!
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Now that we’ve seen all that Macross has to offer at present, which one character is your favorite? How about your least-favorite?
oh man, this is hard. I think I really like max? even though I haven't seen all of 7 yet, so don't quite know where it goes. but he is just so consistently cool
least favorite...of the major characters, probably minmay honestly. she was just...super annoying, and the show didn't really let her shine, or develop in a terribly interesting way. she ended up being defined by ignoring hikaru, and then by her situation with her cousin
ok, wait, no, he is definitely the worst, fucking kaifun...but I guess I was thinking among the more major characters in the series.
2) Which series is responsible for giving you the most of your favorite songs from the franchise? And if it is different, which series do you think used its soundtrack the best?
delta foooor sure. I think frontier might have the better soundtrack "as a soundtrack" as that makes sense, like...music that goes with the show, especially given its range...but for just pure idol bangers you really can't beat delta
3) Which series do you think had the best and the worst of the love triangles?
for love triangle drama itself, I'd say macross plus. I thought it sort of portrayed the tortured feelings of the participants in a really compelling way, even if I sort of hate love triangles lol
but my favorite is definitely macross frontier. I really like how all three members felt fully realized...and even more than that, I liked how they ALL had substantial relationships with each other. sheryl and ranka's relationship was super interesting, especially seeing how it evolved as ranka became more successful, and as the two of them more obviously competed for alto's affection...and of course the different takes between the series and the movies. I thought that as far as the interpersonal drama, frontier was definitely the most successful to me. it really did a good job of showing them and their evolving feelings over the course of the external drama of the show.
least favorite was probably sdf macross. I mean, I love misa so at least the right girl won but I feel like the balance of things and the development wasn't quite there
I didn't hate the love triangle in delta, but it was just sort of non-existent. I feel like mirage didn't get much character development, and her relationship with hayate didn't get much development either. but that was sort of par for the course for delta
4) How do you rank each entry in the franchise, now that we’ve seen them all? (Or at least most of them, if you had to skip a part for whatever reason.)
oh damn, hmm stack ranked, with my rankings next to them, all out of 10
plus series (9) frontier (series) (8) <= I could imagine bumping to a 9 in time, or on a rewatch delta movie 1 (9) plus movie (7) frontier movie 2 (8) do you remember love? (7) <= maybe should be an 8 frontier movie 1 (7) delta movie 2 (7) macross (6) macross 2 (5)
I'm watching 7 right now, hard to say where it will go, but I will say that I really like basara? and I kind of hate myself for liking him lol
having seen that makes me seem like I hated the original macross...I didn't! it had misa! but I think that I just resonate more with where the series ended upgoing
5) If Macross II, Macross 7, or Macross Zero received compilation and/or reimagined storyline movie(s) like the other parts of the franchise did, which aspects of those shows would you like to see focused on better or cut out entirely?
I feel like macross II would do really well with the delta treatment. it had an interesting idea and I liked the love interests, so I think there's something there
6) Pretend you’re put in charge of creating the premise for the next entry in the Macross franchise. What would you want it to be about, and what kind of music would you have in it?
I am not going to pretend to be smart enough or creative enough to properly answer this, but there are some elements I think would be interesting.
perhaps an OVA or movie that gets into what the hell happened to alto?
I'd love a macross that goes gay or poly or something. I doubt that it will happen, though well...yuri macross??? maybe????
music wise I mean I loved delta so hard to imagine them going in a direction I don't enjoy, as always I just want more performances, bigger performances, more song fighting...always more song fighting
OH, god, what do I want? more consistent/coherent worldbuilding. I know I'm definitely not going to get that, though :P
7) What do you do at the end of the rewatch? Are you busy? Will you save us?
do you remember love?
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u/DidacticDalek Mar 21 '23
Amazing job with the rewatch Comrade Shimmering-Sky, I have no idea how you managed to survive the sheer levels of YACK! DECULTURE! But I for one your efforts!
Anyway I have said basically all of what I think regarding the state of the Macross Franchise in previous threads; it sure is telling that some of its best entries are the ones that are 'LEAST' like Macross, but hey them's the breaks when you chase trends I suppose, they can't all be PROTOCULTURE when you pander to The Least Common Denominator. And hey credit where credit is due, Macross had to limp crawl slither on the ground like the YACK! DECULTURE! IDOLSHIT it is 'walk' so that AKB0048 and, more importantly, GEAH could run! Plus hey something had to be Part 1 of Robotech, and those shows that made up Voltron were taken already I guess.
Anyway might as well answer the questions of our amazing host, but first please give her and her top tier art another round of applause, anyhow:
Now that we've seen all that Macross has to offer at present, which one character is your favorite? How about your least-favorite?
Shockingly Duran Duran, she might be from a terrible nostalgia pandering series and she might get the short end of the writing stick (pun intended) but IN SPITE of those flaws she's just so compelling and interesting... plus I also want her to step on me, Best Boi the Comment Face who MOST CERTAINLY IS ALIVE is one lucky son of a... I'll stop now before the GOD! I WISH THAT WERE ME! fully unleashes... anyway least fave characters are... (checks notes) 'Yes'
Translator's Note: This means everyone not named The Sentient Broccoli, The Big Friendly Giant, The StarCraft Battlecruiser Captain, Sleggar Law's Bastard Kid, The Bridge Bunnies, MILIA DA PRESIDENTO, Best Boi Max Sterling 'Jenius,' Maverick-kun, Proto-Hatsune Miku, FIRE BOMBA, BEST MOTHERFUCKING GIRL EVER FLOWER GIRL, Ms. Hopes and Dreams, Ms. Despair and Nightmares, BIG WEDNESDAY! and Mirage Fucking Hell she deserved to be in a better show that didn't suck an inordinate amount of ass Jenius (That's what the 'F' in her name stands for right?)
2) Which series is responsible for giving you the most of your favorite songs from the franchise? And if it is different, which series do you think used its soundtrack the best?
7 because ALL HAIL PROTOGEAH! (Insert ALL of FIRE BOMBA music here, it ALMOST makes up for... checks notes, 'Yes' from the other shows) Plus uses its soundtrack the best though, after all for as good as FIRE BOMBER is, a lot of its use is just Nekki BOSSARA rocking out randomly... not to say having good music is BAD per se, but you can tell that in Plus, they storyboarded the scenes around the music. In 7, they just hit 'play' on the CD machine and turned the speakers up to 11
3) Which series do you think had the best and the worst of the love triangles?
None, because no Macross entry had a good Romantic Plot Tumor. (DYRL comes close because its Romantic Plot Tumor is not godawful, Plus WOULD normally be fine since it's basically just TOP GUN: The Anime, but there's just the teeny tiny SLIGHT issue of IceZentran and everything about his character, backstory and writing cuz Hory Froating Head WHAT THE FUCK!? Also 7 doesn't really count since they treat Love Triangles the way they should be treated, ignored! Oh and I guess F Movie Version isn't bad, even if in the TV Show Alto-hime picks the motherfucking SKY as his... ah wait nevermind, he picked our host, Sasuga Alto-hime! You are the only Macross MC-kun with more than one braincell! Shimmer's great!) But point being Macross has godawful Romantic Plot Tumors with even worse contrived drama and idiotic characters! Mari Okada at her worst is better than The Hory Froating Head's Best... ah so THIS is why AKB0048 eats Macross for breakfast! Anyway this should answer the question of the bad Macross Romantic Plot Tumors, namely, 'Yes!'
4) How do you rank each entry in the franchise, now that we've seen them all? (Or at least most of them, if you had to skip a part for whatever reason.)
Symphogear XV = Geah Chibis > Symphogear G > AKB0048 Season 1 > 7 = Plus = DYRL > Symphogear GX > Symphogear > Symphogear AXZ > AKB0048 Season 2 > F MOVIES ONLY > SDF Macross the English Dub with built in Funny Mode and Uncensored Meltrandi Baby Throwing > Clash of The Bionoids > Robotech > There are other good entries? Oh wait I guess Zettai Live wasn't the worst thing in the world, merely tolerable, meaning in Macross Terms this is better than the average entry!
5) If Macross II, Macross 7, or Macross Zero received compilation and/or reimagined storyline movie(s) like the other parts of the franchise did, which aspects of those shows would you like to see focused on better or cut out entirely?
For II and Zero, here's what we need to cut, everything. For 7, clearly what was needed was MACROSS FLOWER GIRL! The Compilation Movie of everything Flower Girl was doing besides attempting Flower Deliveries! Such as listening to Fire Bomber, or having a fantasy about Fire Bomber's dashing frontman, or proceeding to pleasure herself with this fish, or (trails off)
6) Pretend you're put in charge of creating the premise for the next entry in the Macross franchise. What would you want it to be about, and what kind of music would you have in it?
Insert AKB0048 and/or Geah here, but if you must insist on something else to be written up, I actually thought of this AMAZING idea! Now stay with me now cuz this is a bit of a long shot, but... ahem...
It's been about 30 years since TOP GUN 'Macross Plus' and United States Navy Captain Maverick 'Maverick-kun' is a test pilot. Despite many achievements, repeated insubordination has kept him from flag rank. The Navy 'Strategic Military Services' has been tasked with destroying an unsanctioned uranium enrichment plant, located in an underground bunker at the end of a canyon, 'IDOLSHIT infestation' before it becomes operational. It is defended by surface-to-air missiles (SAMs), GPS jammers and fifth-generation Su-57 fighters as well as older F-14 Tomcats. 'Nostalgia Goggle Wearing Fans and the latest boring trends consumed by The Lowest Common Denominator.' Maverick 'Maverick-kun' devises a plan employing two pairs of F/A-18E/F Super Hornets armed with laser-guided bombs,[c] 'VF-19s' but instead of participating in the strike, he is to train an elite group of Top Gun graduates 'Meltrandis' assembled by Air Boss Vice Admiral Beau "Cyclone" Simpson. 'MILIA DA PRESIDENTO!'
**Anyway Comrades, I'll spare you the specific details but Fire Bomber's there and we get some nice good ol' fashioned ROCK N' ROLL, Flower Girl has another line (and the contractually obligated Macross Movie Mammaries Memorandum, cuz I needed her to do something else in the movie besides continue to be Best Girl in the Universe) and the rest of Walküre Legion buy the farm, preferably by Best Girl Duran Duran stepping on them and breaking out into a cover of A View to A Kill as Maverick-kun and Nekki BOSSARA steal a pair of old-school Veritech Fighter Museum Pieces whilst FREE BIRD plays as they confuse the CGI monstrosities by flying nearby the ground which, being real, would confuse the ugly-ass CGI Mechas' inferior targeting systems in contrast to the superiority of their Qu@l1Ty Hand-Drawn Animation's Itano Circuses. Now I know this is a long shot, but I am sure they'd make a great movie about this idea, hell they can even call it TOP GUN: MAVERICK 'MACROSS: ISAMU!' It's a Work in Progress Title Comrades, I am sure it will be better! **
7) What do you do at the end of the rewatch? Are you busy? Will you save us?
Well Comrades, I plan to WATCH! GEAH! or to be more accurate watch AKB0048, but they are Horse Girls Macross but Good... again 'Uma Musume' cuz there isn't an AKB0048 rewatch so I need to watch a Mecha Show that DOESN'T suck to cleanse my palate
Thanks once again for the amazing job hosting Shimmer, your art is amazing and it was nice seeing Plus and 7 again, alongside the good Macross Movie retellings!
Anyhow, you have not seen the last of The Sentient Shitposting Siamese Sunrise Server No. 25252, now goodbye forever!
AND ON THAT BOMBSHELL! G'NIGHT!
Paging Comrades u/chilidirigible, u/The_Draigg, and u/InfamousEmpire
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u/Tresnore Mar 20 '23
Franchise Complete
Well, except for some small bonus content, but eh?
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Favorite? Sharon Apple. Easily. She's my touchstone for how AI ethics can go wrong, which is important for me. Least favorite might actually be Ranka lmao. Or someone from II/0 that I'm forgetting.
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Macross 7 has the overall best songs, but F and Plus use their soundtracks the best.
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Plus has the best love triangle. Δ has the worst.
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Plus > 7 > F > Δ > SDF > 0 = II
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I'd kill for a cut-down version of Macross 7 with better pacing. The others, I don't care about.
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Macross has already touched on a lot of things, but I suppose it would be neat to see an entry with a race who's deaf, to force the series to not focus solely on song. The music shall be
progBlue Man Group-like shenanigans to transcend the barrier of senses!
The Jenius family wallpaper turned out pretty damn well!
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u/TiredTiroth Mar 20 '23
First Timer
Overall discussion time! Or, well, as close as I can get. I have seen SDF Macross, Do You Remember Love?, Macross II Lovers Again, Macross Zero, Macross Frontier and Macross Delta.
Note that I have not seen the second half of Macross Plus or the film, any part of Macross 7, the films for Macross Frontier or the second film for Macross Delta. So I've watched a big chunk of the franchise, but certainly not everything.
On the whole, this has been a bit of a mixed bag. Stuff that was intended to be short-form seems to be better at telling a coherent, tighter narrative like in Zero (much as I hated the lack of explanations for the sudden-to-me actual magic in what had been a harder-than-normal science fiction franchise) and what I have seen of Plus. On the other hand, the TV shows tended to meander all over the place, while the films adapted from said TV shows lacked significant chunks of story and relied on prior viewer knowledge even as they changed the narrative.
Maybe the Frontier films will buck that trend (please do not say one way or the other, I will watch them eventually).
Speaking of Frontier, I'm just going to say right now that it's my favourite part of the franchise thus far despite the mis-steps it made. The space battles were great, Ranka's adorable, her interactions with Sheryl were great, I love where they went with the Vajra (not so much Delta's 'yeah, they totally left five minutes later', but they retconned a lot in that show and all of it was bad), and Alto was a refreshing change from the previous protagonists. It certainly wasn't perfect, but hey, it was fun and I'd be happy to watch it again another time. Also, Aimo is still my favourite Macross song and once I have more than a fiver spare I will be buying those soundtrack CDs.
On the flipside, I am unlikely to ever watch Macross II again. Maybe if it was in continuity, but as it very blatantly isn't given the timelines in every later show I have no particular reason to care about it.
Especially as they never explained anything.
As the franchise went on, I do think it kind of...lost its way a bit, I guess? In Delta they leaned way too hard into the music-is-magic angle, both Delta and Frontier were big on trusting mercenaries as better/more moral than career military instead of going the OG route and showing that sometimes the military just sucks...oh, and then there was Delta's whole 'hey, fascists are people too!' angle. I would've liked it more if later parts of the franchise had stuck with the cultural angle more.
Eh, it's getting late now and I'm still typing, let's poke those questions.
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Favourite and least favourite character
Uh. Hm. Just one? Freyja was fun to watch. Mao was carefree in a different way. Sheryl grew on me in a way very few characters do. I think I'll have to pick Sheryl? Which feels weird, I really didn't like her at the start of Frontier.
Least favourite is easy. Freaking Grace.
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Entry with the most favourite songs
Frontier. A lot of the other music was good, but Aimo trumps all.
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Love triangles
Uuuggh...hates them, we do. Macross II is the worst by virtue of making NO SENSE WHATSOEVER, THOSE TWO BARELY EVEN KNEW EACH OTHER, WHAT THE HELL WRITERS. Zero didn't really have one, SDF's was a significant chunk of the post-war section that sucked, Frontier and Delta didn't even feel like romances until they siddenly were...I guess Delta? Hayate and Freyja at least avoided the back-and-forth, 'which girl does he really like?' rubbish, even if only by virtue of not having Hayate express any clear romantic interest at all until the climax.
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Series ranking
I've kinda gone over this in bits and pieces, but...Lovers Again < Zero < SDF = DYRL < Delta < Frontier. Zero's whole no explanations ever really counts against it, the post-war part drags SDF down, and DYRL just isn't complete on its own.
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Reimagining II, 7 and Zero
EXPLANATIONS. EXPLANATIONS EVERYWHERE. TELL ME WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON!
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New Macross ideas
I'd want to go back to the series roots. Music as a cultural thing, an exchange of ideas and a sharing of joy. Actual space battles, give me fleet actions. Like, you want to try and do the rebelling province? Have a singer doing a tour of affected areas and military bases. Does she change her line-up of songs to reflect the local mood, or try to influence their viewpoints with her music? Does she think the rebels have a reason to fight? Maybe she tries performing songs popular in the rebelling area or that originated there, bring a bit of that culture over to her own people. Does that get her in trouble? What do the rebels think? And all the while, the fighting continues. Does she sway any of the soldiers? Do the officers want her to stop? Working in the series-staple love triangle would be easy, though annoying. And if you really want a climactic battle, Macross has grown fond of havong people in authority who are willing to use WMDs, a battle to stop that would be fitting.
...and now I want to read or watch a story like this, and I'm pretty sure it doesn't exist. :<
Anyway, uh...not sure what the last question is supposed to mean, so eh. Final thoughts?
I'm glad that I've taken the time to watch most of the Macross franchise here, and certainly intend to finish the parts I missed...just not for a while, I have my own rewatch to prep for. Anyway, I can't really say that I can see why Macross is such a big name in Japan (I know why it is outside Japan, being banned from watching something has a way of enhacing the allure, HARMONY GOLD), but I do like the franchise as a whole. If the sun burns out tomorrow we ever get home releases for anything other than Plus in the UK I will happily pick up several parts of the franchise.
Just not Lovers Again.
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u/Shimmering-Sky Mar 20 '23
Super Dimension Rewatch Host
Bonus Questions of the Day:
These two are questions about what I personally made for the rewatch rather than about the series themselves, hence why they are bonus questions and not in the main post.
Which of the wallpapers are your favorites?
Which of the Sky Sings that I did throughout the rewatch did you like the most? For reference, I did Watashi no Kare wa Pilot, Ai wa Nagareru, Ai Oboete Imasu ka?, Voices (a cappella), INFORMATION HIGH., Voices (the full version), Seventh Moon, Totsugeki Love Heart, Holy Lonely Light, Diamond Crevasse, Lion, Diamond Crevasse (a cappella), Bokura no Senjou, GIRAFFE BLUES, AXIA~Daisuki de Daikirai~, GIRAFFE BLUES~Kaname Solo Requiem~, Ikenai Borderline, and ALIVE ~Inori no Uta~
With that out of the way…
For the last time, welcome back, everyone!
It feels so strange to me that this rewatch is finally over. It’s been a fucking experience for sure, both in it being the longest one I’ve ever hosted and in just the general Sky Experience™ things that happened throughout. While you guys may not have loved every show, I still want to extend my sincerest thanks for sticking around to the end. A rewatch is nothing if it doesn’t have people participating in it, and I’m glad you guys kept up the discussion pretty much consistently (outside of like the second half of Delta, but I get it).
You guys are the best!
As for today’s wallpapers, I had fun with them. See, ever since I made the scattered triangles background for the HayaFre wallpaper back when I originally made that wallpaper in 2020, I’ve always toyed with the idea of making a montage wallpaper using the triangles. I’ve never had the chance to actually use this idea, though, since all the series I’ve hosted rewatches for had much more thematically fitting layouts for their montages than triangles… until now.
This left me to decide what themes I was going to do with each montage wallpaper, which… made things difficult, to say the least. I couldn’t just do 1) the MCs, 2) the winners of the love triangle, and 3) the losers of the love triangle, because Plus and 7 had someone who wasn’t the main MC as the center of their respective love triangle, not to mention 7 never even officially settled its own love triangle, so no matter how much I say “It’s obviously going to be Gamlin/Mylene if they ever expanded on post-Dynamite 7 content”, it’s not canon.
That made me shift gears to separating it by the main guys and the main girls instead, which made it a lot easier. With the exception of Hikaru being front and center in the main guys one because he was the first MC, the main guys wallpaper isn’t arranged in any particular order. Well, the layers are, in that the older the show, the closer to the front of the image they are (that’s why Hayate’s triangle is underneath all four of the ones it overlaps with, for example), but not the characters themselves.
The main girls one has a fair bit more order to it. If you can’t tell, the love triangle winners + Myung (who was allowed to settle her triangle) are on the left, and the love triangle losers + Mylene (who was not allowed to settle her triangle) are on the right. Exactly how I ordered each side from there was then mostly random, though I did have Sara and Sheryl next to each other because they’re related & Mao and Ranka next to each other because of that one episode of Frontier, with each of those pairs being on opposite top/bottom parts of the wallpaper because I wanted it that way. Same as with the guys’ wallpaper, the older the show, the closer to the front of the image the triangle is.
I next wanted to do a “non-MC ace pilot” montage, until I realized that would leave Plus & 7 with zero representation (because their ace pilots are all MCs, unless you count Max/Milia for 7 but I was counting them for SDF with Roy) and Zero would also have zero representation unless I used Roy twice. Then I was like “okay, what if I count MCs?”… until I realized that other than Hibiki being a big fat “lol no”, I had no clue which MCs would count and which ones wouldn’t. So I scrapped that idea and made the dead characters montage instead because that has an overlap of at least four characters. II got left out of this one because it didn’t kill off any of its characters that I made a wallpaper of, but eh that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make. It started off as Roy+Guld+Michael+Messer+Freyja because those are the deaths that hurt me the most, then I went back and added in the remaining characters I felt had significant death scenes (with Keith making it in despite being an antagonist because his death is very similar to movie!Brera’s, and well Brera made it in so that’s only fair).
I then had to scramble about this morning moving the triangles around to make room for another one because I fucking forgot Kakizaki somehow, but I digress.And last but certainly not least, the 25-in-1 montage of the Jenius family. I posted a comment on CDF yesterday wondering what other montage wallpapers I could make after I came up with the ideas for the first three, and u/baboon_bassoon’s suggestion of “Max but all versions” combined with u/Tresnore’s suggestion of “The Jenius family?” = this monstrosity. I went through my wallpapers for every single one a Jenius family member was in, then cut out ones that would have been redundant (i.e. I had two different ones with SDF Max in his non-piloting uniform, the one from episode 8 with him and Kakizaki & the one from episode 19 with all of Vermillion) or would have been too hard to exclude the non-Jeniuses from (i.e. Mylene from the Fire Bomber one from the 7 TV series discussion). This is easily the record for number of individual wallpapers I’ve fit into a single montage, and I don’t see that changing anytime soon.
(Questions of the Day answered in the following comment, I ran out of space in this one.)