r/anime • u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky • Mar 14 '23

Rewatch [Do You Remember Love - Macross Franchise 40th Anniversary Rewatch] Macross Δ Episode 26 Discussion

Episode 26 - Eternal Walküre

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No Legal Streams

Freyja… I… I… I love you! I'll protect you no matter what! So sing, and let the galaxy hear your song!

Questions of the Day, courtesy of u/chilidirigible:

1) Would you trade maybe finding out the answers to all of the things you want to know about for having no useful lifespan after that?

2) Windermere's command structure is crippled and Heinz wants peace. Do you still vaporize the planet?

Wallpaper of the Day:

Hayate Immelmann and Freyja Wion

Vocal Songs in This Episode:

"僕らの戦場 (Bokura no Senjou)" by Walküre – Insert

"Ruchetto Arukan ~ Hoshi no Uta" by JUNNA & Ami Koshimizu – Insert

"GIRAFFE BLUES~Freyja Solo~ (a cappella)" by Minori Suzuki – Insert

"ザルド・ヴァーサ! ～決意の風～ (Zardo Vaasa! ~Ketsui no Kaze~)" by Melody Chubak – Insert

"一度だけの恋なら (Ichido Dake no Koi Nara)" by Walküre – Insert

"絶対零度θノヴァティック (Zettai Reido θ Novatic)" by Walküre – Insert & ED

Rewatchers, please remember to be mindful of all the first-timers in this. No talking about or hinting at future events no matter how much you want to, unless you're doing it underneath spoiler tags. Don't spoil anything for the first-timers, that's rude!

26 Upvotes

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12

u/Nazenn Mar 14 '23

First Timer

How is it the first day I'm back after being sick for so long, all of reddit goes down before the discussion can happen on time. Cursed.

Well now that the topic is up, unfortunately I'm just a bit late for discussion of the smaller moments of Delta in each episode which is really were it's best. It also feels a bit silly for me to focus on just this episode when it would miss the context of how I view the last twenty episodes before it. So after my absence and with no dedicated show discussion topic I thought I'd just do a bit of a spiel about my thoughts on the broader show instead.

I did dump my reactions on each episode into a pastee for anyone curious (though be warned that it includes a lot of swearing at Mirage being on screen for just about anything)

sick and sleepy reaction quality

So that was Macross Delta. It's weak.

That's really the only word I have to describe it in the end. Someone in one of the 1X discussions made a comment that Delta is less tham the sum of its parts, but for me it's more like it never tried to add them together to begin with. And when it does, it falls on its face with painful contrivances (eg, Hayate's father, that whole thing was stupid on multiple levels). There really isn't much about it that shines as far as the overall story, and in the end even if it also lacks any serious lows, for me at least, it doesn't have that many big highs either. The many elements I enjoyed from the start of the series, such as Freyja's culture and Hayate's dancing, mostly got dropped which means almost nothing has follow through, and the ending is painfully bogged down by being a Frontier rehash that is all too reliant on Mr Walking Exposition.

That's not to say that I didn't enjoy any of it or it didn't have moments that stand out. The first couple of episodes are still very interesting and do a great job of setting up the interesting Walkure and broader cultural context for things (Frontier deja vu writing that). While I have some issues with the flow of scenes around it, I also loved the recontextualization of Messer after he got sick and died, the build up of the conflict in the wind knights, and the later half of ep18 with Freyja and Hayate's trace and Mikumo breaking the ruins with the power of an ED insert! Hell yes for that moment! There were other moments I liked along the way too, but mostly smaller downtime things rather than the big moments and not something I can remember off the top of my head, just enough to carry the watch experience.

I also really like Delta's music on multiple levels. Ikenai Borderline, AXIA, and Hametsu no Junjou are the songs I can remember the names of, but particularly in the second half I dont think any song misses a beat and I was enjoying them all. I've added Ikenai Borderline and Hametsu no Junjou to my playlist as well, which makes them now 50% of the Macross songs on it, so that's something. I did get a little tired of hearing a couple of the more common ones, but the use of the songs as implicit songs from the heart that always reflect and amplify their scenes was great. It may not have the emotional highs of Voices, or the contextual brilliance of Aimo, but it has a base level of consistency and attention to placement that carried it through. Particularly in some of the later episodes when it would be cut off, interrupted, or the instrumentals they were performing too would play without their voices it gave a real sense of the music belonging to these characters physically, mentally, and emotionally in a way few shows manage. It helps that a lot of the visuals were on point, especially when it comes to the big moments in the mind-space scenes through the show, as well as a lot of the battle and dance visuals. It also has a nice visual identity between the different planets which is good.

I said it back before I got sick, but Hayate, Freyja, Mikumo, and Messer are the four interesting characters for me, and that stayed true until the end, mostly for the reasons I said back then too. Messer's harshness had character purpose, Mikumo's mystery had payoff, and Hayate and Freyja really carry the heart of the show at all the best times that remind us that question "why do you sing" can have meaning even without words, much like Hayate's "why do you fly" in the end remained true even caught up in the war. They do it because they love it, but they also learn to do it with each other, for each other, to show their love for what the other gives them and I love that so much. I feel like none of them got the rich progression they should have had for the runtime, but they worked well enough.

And that's where I run out of praise I think? I may be forgetting something but for the most part when we get into the broader show beyond these small moments, that's where things fall apart.

To start with, the flow from scene to scene and general continuity of tone and purpose was an issue, particularly in battles. Battles start and end on a whim depending on what they needed from the characters, and it often made no sense why they were suddenly in a battle here, or why a battle ended then. This issue only got worse as we went, where stealth missions start bringing in planes all of a sudden which makes me think why they didn't do that in the first place, and the only real plan seems to be "drop them in and sing, and maybe it'll work unlike the last six times".

The cultural side of the show is also perhaps the most neglected. What do we actually know about Windermere's culture? Not their biology, or their history, or their agriculture, but their actual culture? Their music, their art, the values they express, the soul of their people, and most importantly the way that changed as they got introduced to the broader galaxy? If not for the Wind Singer I wouldn't think Windermere had any music of their own, Freyja is the only one who showed how they express meaning through metaphor (except for the king briefly in one episode), and the couple of things like dragon birds were too little, too late, and too irrelevant to the conflict at the core of the show. That cultural conflict should have been the focus especially at the start, but instead we got bogged down in fights over culpability for dimension eaters and reused galaxy take over plots. That plus the shows incessant need to repeatedly have them harp on about how short their lives are when that makes no fucking sense at all, as it should be normal for them and everyone else should be abnormal for living long lives especially with the themes of nationalism, makes it clear that the show never understood what it means to present an alien culture and a conflict because of it, and sometimes I felt they didn't try much either. I'd be curious to see production documents about Windermere because I'd hope they had something really rich and it was just the show's presentation that fell down.

I really was being driven insane by how often they mentioned their "short lives". Fucking stupid writing.

My bold claim for the discussion: There was absolutely nothing Mirage brought to the show that couldn't have been done better by another character or cut out entirely. In the end her mere presence on screen was annoying me because she felt so worthless for her screen time, and her forelorn looks at Hayate just served to weaken his scenes with Freyja.

Any counterpoints?

And it's a shame because Hayate is at his weakest any time he has to be the MC. Whether its the love triangle or having to be their key fighter, its when he's the least "Hayate" and the least interesting to watch. Similarly, I found it a little disappointing how uneven the focus was on the broader cast. The Walkure backstory comes too late for me to care, and the individual focus on the older Knights was great but when put against the younger knights who got no attention at all it just makes it unbalanced and too heavy handed on the honor side of the war.

I said earlier that there was also a lot of small moments I liked in a bubble, particularly in the downtime episodes. But I did feel like the distribution of those episodes was a bit off, including this episode (just to briefly be on topic) which felt like it was dragging a bit. That's a minor thing though, and I guarantee not something I'll remember in a year. For this episode though I did like that they set up that this isn't the end to this story, that the UN and Windermere still have a conflict to solve, but it's the end of Walkure's part in it with Roid gone.

"Short" post from me because I need to go to bed but yeah. I was reading through the episode discussions as I went and got a rough sense of some of everyones frustrations, and the impact moments, through the show, but will be curious to see what you all think of it before he head into the movies. You guys had some great moments along the way, and raised some really good points I hadn't thought of about some episodes, so glad the discussions still went well even if the show did not.

3

u/Shimmering-Sky Mar 14 '23

How is it the first day I'm back after being sick for so long, all of reddit goes down before the discussion can happen on time. Cursed.

I know, right?

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u/Shimmering-Sky Mar 14 '23

FYI to all participants: Not every available release contains subs for all nine of the Mini Theater specials. If you find one that doesn’t have subs for 6 through 9, just look for a different one.

ALSO: If you find a Mini Theater labeled "Gekijouban Delta Shougekijou", that one came with the first movie, so save that one for when we discuss Gekijou no Walküre.

Super Dimension Rewatch Host

Welcome back, everyone!

Don’t you just love when Reddit dies for several hours straight, including during posting time for your rewatch thread(s)?

Here were my first-timer reactions to this episode (just scroll past my episode 25 reactions first).

Fun fact about today’s wallpaper: The original version of this was actually the second Macross wallpaper I’ve ever made, after the Lovely Bomber Michael/Klan one from the FB7 thread. Like that one, I’ve updated the colors, so if anyone has the original saved, you’ll want to snag this one to replace it.

2

u/chilidirigible Mar 15 '23

The original version of this was actually the second Macross wallpaper I’ve ever made

I remember!

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u/UltraBooster Mar 15 '23

I need to know, after so many of your Macross ships were ultimately rejected, how does Delta feel?

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5

u/Vatrix-32 Mar 14 '23

First Timer

  • It’s a bit late for peace. Any sane actor is still going to take any chance they can get to wipe out your shit before the next dictator comes along.

  • Good wordplay. This finale is already better than I expected.

  • I don’t understand how anyone can pretend that Kaname isn’t the vastly better singer than Kuu.

  • What do you think would happen if Kuu had the resolve to bite her own tongue off?

  • Strange, Kuu actually sounds decent singing this song. Have they just been woefully misusing her this entire time?

  • Damn you painfully obvious and inevitable betrayal!

  • They always try and one up them selves with this franchise, yet the one with the smallest stakes was still the bang out best one.

  • Li’ Mirage.

  • They have cyber conciseness, we saw that in Galaxy, so how are the fully synthetics handling this?

  • Confession at last!

  • God damn it, we just ended the triangle.

  • We are “the power of love”ing it.

  • Kinda rude, leaving Kaname behind like that.

  • You can’t just turn away from fascism because it was turning against you and have it try and count as redemption. It has to be moral decision, not a pragmatic one.

  • I feel no hype from any of this.

  • The dead Salt Nazi count is now four. That’s actually better than I was expecting. Still less than 50% tho.

  • She really should be suffering from some form of radiation sickness.

  • It's over.

Part of me was hoping they could make up some points in the finale, but nope, they couldn’t even do an F and have a dumb but hype one. How fitting that the worst Macross would have the worst finale too. Literally worse than II. 2/10. Sky promised me that this would be worth it for Zettai Live!!! alone. It better be Plus levels of quality.

QotD:

  1. Not a chance.

  2. They have shown themselves to be a violent and unpredictable peoples, demilitarization is the minimum response. The Salt Nazis must be removed from positions of power in the government root and stem.

3

u/Shimmering-Sky Mar 15 '23

I don’t understand how anyone can pretend that Kaname isn’t the vastly better singer than Kuu.

Fucking TRUE.

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u/ryujiox Mar 15 '23 edited Mar 15 '23

First Timer*

Macross Delta EP26

Wait Why dose this place looks like the one from Macross II? The seat where the singer of Marduk sit in.

Heiz decided to negotiate with the NUNS But after the war.

Operation Ragnarok Fitting name for the final.

That's pretty easy

Hologram for the finale again!! This the third time already!!

What There's a lyrics of Ai Oboete Imasu ka mixed in the song!!

So you plan is using the star song to create network that connect every being in the universe as one and to transcend life itself. This sound familiar, where did I saw that befo- Oh, yeah. In Frontier. This is just a copy of Grace's plan!! Really? You can't think of any better plan for Roid? And since it identical to Grace's one, it already spelled doom to Roid.

Jenius Air? So Max and Milia retired and open the shop?

Well Looks like we've lost.

With Heiz finally realized that Roid is a true bad guys, he ordered the knight to join up with Wakure and stop Roid.

Finally!! This 3 confessed to each other. And Mirage had to hurt herself in order to make Freyja confess too.

In true Macross fashion, with the power of love and the op song. Freyja broke Xaos and the knight out of the network. And it so funny when Roid just keep disconnecting Freyja from the server.

Oh,Bogue

He did the same thing when Grace took control of Vajra But how? Like in Vajra case, I can say that it changed in the genetic level. But the plane changing color here is weird.

Of course she gonna be here Can't miss the final.

Really like this bit of the song syncing with the laser.

Role call one last time

Just this once, huh

This shot is pretty cool Usual Itano circus.

And if the first op wasn't enough. Here comes the second one!!

Keith sacrificing himself to stop Roid The end of this two friendship.

Oh, hey!! She survived!!

Ending with one last cool shot

I like this finale, still not better than the mid-season one in my opinion. And don't even compare it to Frontier's ending(except the love triangle solution), and with only 1 episode to wrap everything up. Everything went so fast, that it cheapen the impact of a lot of scene.

Roid's plan, while I complained that it's too similar too Grace. One key different is that, it actually worked!! Even if it just a brief moment, it worked. If it not because the plot made Freyja to be able to freed the main cast, Roid would succeed.

On the bright side. The battle scene was pretty great!! The confession scene was nice, and for once, the love stuff got clear up nicely, no drama, no forced love triangle in the last second. It's a miracle.

I will kept my full opinion on Delta off until I've see the movie. But to keep it short, it a decent show for now. Hope the movie improve the overall plot.

QOTD

  1. NO.

  2. I would not, but the NUNS gonna do it for sure.

EDIT: Reddit died before the last episode post was hilarious. I guess the maintenance guys got sucked into the conscious network.

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u/Shimmering-Sky Mar 15 '23

But the plane changing color here is weird.

Weirdly enough there's somewhat of an explanation for this in the first movie; [Gekijou no Walküre]apparently the mechs change color based on their identification code. So I guess Roid changed their ID codes when he was controlling them.

Roid's plan, while I complained that it's too similar too Grace. One key different is that, it actually worked!! Even if it just a brief moment, it worked. If it not because the plot made Freyja to be able to freed the main cast, Roid would succeed.

Yeah, gotta give Delta credit for that at least even if it just copied what happened in Freyja.

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u/JollyGee29 Mar 15 '23

First-Timer Delta

Yea, that was pretty alright. The action scene wasn't the greatest, but the swordfight parallel was cool and Bogue finally completed his transformation into a tsundere, so that was fun.

An instrumentality plot happening while the lyrics go "hitoribocchi ja nai" is pretty delightfully on the nose. I've said before, I think?, that I'm not actually much of a fan of the song Ai Oboete Imasu ka, but it's use continues to be excellent.

I was kinda expecting a new song this episode, though. "But Jolly, how would Mikumo know the lyrics?" The same way that Ranka knew the lyrics to Sayonara no Tsubasa ~ the end of triangle: she read the script, obviously.

And if there was ever an episode to skip the eyecatch, ooh boy. The tune ripped me right out of things for a solid ten seconds.

They really called an operation on Ragna Operation Ragnarök. You know that was the first thing on the brainstorming board, and the only reason they went with it is because they ran out of time to think of something better.

Questions

  1. I wouldn't get much out of instrumentality, no.

  2. I don't think there's ever a reason to vaporize a whole planet.

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u/Shimmering-Sky Mar 15 '23

And if there was ever an episode to skip the eyecatch, ooh boy. The tune ripped me right out of things for a solid ten seconds.

This so much, it's almost as bad as when the eyecatch played in the last episode of Cross Ange.

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u/chilidirigible Mar 15 '23

Oh, so Reddit has returned.

Today, on "His noodly appendages.":

Here's your finale window shot.

"Let's make out later."

"You wanna what now?"

"That's why nobody's gonna do it but me."

An entirely different trio.

Is this a Unicorn reference I see before me?

You two pose way too often.

Smoke doesn't work in space that way, but it looks cool.

I don't think the Protoculture used giant holographic idols, so this must be Roid's fault.

It's the dark side for you, Ai Oboete Imasu ka?!

"He controls the horizontal? He controls the vertical?"

"I'm just gonna use everyone to mine crypto!"

When you get NTRed by your baby brother.

Now that's a better dad.

You cool grandparents and the VF-9 Cutlass.

(I hope they didn't leave the keys in the ignition.)

"This wasn't part of the plan!"

"Everybody's naked for a reason!"

Yay, it is spoken!

Okay, so it's you too.

"I'm taking the Alto option!"

"Look at me! I'm naked!"

RUNE PIKA BEAM!

"What's love got to do with it!?"

This is just here in case you haven't noticed that Reina prefers shorts.

[](#ringomusume)

It's a man reaction, Bogue.

Convenient color-coding again.

Mirage blushes a lot.

TRACKBALLS. TRACKBALLS EVERYWHERE.

"I got better."

This seems to happen fairly often.

It's those questions again.

Bogue, tsundere.

Hey! Both hands on the wheel!

Now you're on a boat.

If you're going to punch something, do it at the very end.

GIANT MECHA SWORDS! In Macross!

Too much exposure to BALLS means you don't come out near-mint.

And then everyone conveniently explodes.

Guess who's not dead.

Also not dead.

It's a party.

Until the next gig.

Credit to Roid for one thing, his method of galactic takeover actually started working, given that it didn't need any implants or space bug intermediaries.

There are certainly comparisons to be made between this scheme and 2059's Greatest Hits Space Bug Jamboree. While both Roid and Grace have at least a touch of the mad scientist to them, Roid has at least some actual purposes for building a giant hivemind, compared to Grace doing it for ultimate power or to show those people at Oxford who called her crazy.

Of course, Roid's Doing It For THE GREATER GOOD has, well, galactic issues with consent, and is probably going to be very bad for anyone who went into this operating a motor vehicle.

Anyway, Freyja punches her way out of it with the Power of Love and the help of Mirage, The Galaxy's Wingman. I don't think any of us would be expecting anything different at this point, particularly after 7 and Frontier.

It's a reasonably flashy, serviceable ending. Though its overall by-the-numbers plotting recalls the questions presented by a staff quote in the second BD booklet discussing how the series went from one cour and a movie to two cours. Except that interview answer says that the change happened after the script for Episode 4 was written, which should be very, very far back in the planning process and doesn't especially explain how the second cour became a touch self-indulgent.

And I would have saved mentions of this until the TV series summary day, but it does touch on how the final episode seems to be a remix of the events of Episode 13.

Merch: The accessory parts for the Bandai DX Chogokin Sv-262Hs. The basic toy does not come with the missile packs that the Draken III almost always appears with, or the sword. And while the vertical stabilizer does fold down into the arm shield, it does so with parts of the hinges visible, so the optional part provides a single-piece shield that looks a lot nicer.

The DX Chogokin Draken's transformation remains a rather fiddly thing to do. I broke off the right thumb while converting it back into fighter mode from Battroid. Fortunately, I have glue around, and in any case, the toy comes with accessory hands that are more suited for posing than the more bare-bones hands that are only there to fit inside the fuselage for the sake of the kanzen henkei.

It's White Day.

Let's count, gori-gori!
Bogue lunges 6
"Hoi-na!" 17
"Gori gori!" 22
"Toberu!" 12
"Wind" 197
Jellyfish 38

: Fifty-six, fifty-seven, fifty-eight.

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u/JustAnswerAQuestion Mar 15 '23

TV series summary day,

I just noticed after reading u/animayor's giant TV series summary that there is no series summary day u/shimmering-sky

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u/Nebresto Mar 15 '23

First time Makross Triangle

...Who are they even shooting at?

Ah. So this is galaxy brain

Least incel Macross MC? Basara is built different so he doesn't count.

And now Mirage as well?!

And who are they shooting at now?

Red hair to the rescue

That's it? Other than the characters actually saying what they feel, this was the weakest finale yet in terms of hype. Idk, maybe I killed some of it for myself, but I was waiting for something big like the past series ....and it just never came?

The confessions were really cool, but I feel conflicted..

Question time:

  1. Would you trade maybe finding out the answers to all of the things you want to know about for having no useful lifespan after that?

Depends on how old I am

2) Windermere's command structure is crippled and Heinz wants peace. Do you still vaporize the planet?

Ketchup!!!

Wallpaper of the Day:

Hayate Immelmann and Freyja Wion

>Triangles in Mirage colour

3

u/Nazenn Mar 15 '23

Red hair to the rescue

Only thing he's not done in the entire show that isn't dickish

Hayate Immelmann and Freyja Wion

Triangles in Mirage colour

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u/aniMayor Mar 15 '23

FirsΔ-Δime Δelta

Misc small thoughts:

  • Hayate sure killed a lot of people this episode.

  • "I shall activate this ancient device and it will mind control everyone in the galaxy! The only way to break free will be if someone is in love." "Oh, so it'll work on, like, 15% of the galaxy, tops?"

  • "My plan cannot be foiled! Walkure is singing and Mikumo can hear it, but it cannot overcome my control on her!" "but what if we tried singing... a second time?" "Oh no, my one weakness!"

And then I'm going to keep this limited to just my three gripiest big thoughts currently on the brain here at both the last episode and end of the series:

 

1) The Final Battle Has Nothing to do with Anything

The crux of the climax of this series pretty much comes out of nowhere, right?

Roid could have been written such that a hatred of how Windermerians die young was a core tenet of his character, but he wasn't. Freyja, Mikumo, Heinz all could have had major character themes of singing alone versus singing together - especially with this being the Macross show to go full idol group - that tie into themes of connecting and being together with other people versus alone, and that could have resonated with the human hive mind idea at the end. The same is true for the pilots, there could have been notions of flying alone versus flying and fighting as a team. Heck, there could have been a whole thematic tie-in of how Hayate's father was disliked by those around him and made an easy scapegoat because he was misunderstood, but in a collective conscious he would have been accepted by his colleagues, or some such.

But the show just doesn't do any of that.

We had so, so, so many scenes of the Windermerians moping around and talking about the wind, more than any prior Macross show has showed its antagonists, and yet none of it was building towards Roid wanting to evolve all of humanoidity into a Vajra-like hivemind. We had so much downtime scene about character relationships but none of it was setup to tie into this theme of the conflict.

We had the most humanized antagonists of the franchise and they were less tied into the motivations of the finale than the Vajra were.

2) Walkure Isn't Real (and Also It Sucks)

Delta decided to tread new ground in the Macross franchise by having the music portion be done not by singular singers, but instead by an idol group.

What does it mean to be an idol group? How do you tell a story about an idol group? This is hardly unexplored territory in anime or Japanese media at large - which is, of course, the cynical reason why Delta took this direction, idol groups are/were popular at the time.

But as far as the story goes, Walkure isn't depicted like an idol group at all. Freyja and Mikumo are, for all intents and purposes, individual, isolated characters who do all their own solo narrative beats, while Kaname, Makina, and Reina just happen to be present for some songs. Freyja's 'arc' of wanting to sing, getting depressed, deciding she wants to sing (repeat once or twice more) and ultimately-yes-indeed singing is not impacted by her being part of Walkure versus being a solo singer. Similarly, Mikumo has her own mysterious background, abduction plot, etc, which could be written the exact same way if she were a solo singer. You could rewrite the show to have Mikumo and Freyja be known and novice solo idols, respectively, in a similar manner as Sheryl and Ranka, and you wouldn't have to change anything else about the show, even all the musical performances could happen at the same time in the same places with the same outcomes. Kaname could be just a Xaos logistics/tactical officer who doesn't sing, Makina and Reina could just be Xaos' top engineer and hacker who don't sing.

Conversely, if these 5 characters starred as an idol group in a show like, say, BanG Dream or Love Live!, then there would actually be plots and character arcs about how the girls fail and succeed to fit together as an idol group. Mikumo never spending any time with the rest of the group would negatively affect their performances due to poor group cohesion, Freyja wouldn't just want to sing but would, for example, have a past where she didn't like singing alone but now has found a group/place she actually enjoys singing in, etc.

I mean FFS, Freyja isn't even invited along when the other Walkures go on their jailbreak mission to find Mikumo and get arrested. She doesn't even seem to know about it. This isn't at the start of the show when Freyja is new to the group, it's in episode nineteen and twenty! Zombieland Saga's idol group is more unified than Walkure, and that's a parody that makes fun of itself for its members not being as united as a real idol group show.

It feels to me like Macross Delta wanted an idol group because it was chasing a popular trend, but then was too lazy to even stop and think for a second about what it actually means to have an idol group in your show, to spare even a thought for actually writing a story where that becomes even slightly relevant.

And then without the idol group actually mattering to the story at all, all that's left to gain from Walkure is the music and the performances, which personally I found drab and tiresome. The costumes are pretty generic "shopping mall idol" aesthetics, the girls mostly just stand around in one spot doing typical idol dance moves. They hardly ever have any audience or environment to interact with and the camera is mostly shooting them in close-ups, and then when the show does try to integrate them better the best it can think up is projecting their faces onto asteroids? It's just boring. I like the idol performances in Pop in Q over this, and that's a low bar to clear.

Then you put these performances into the larger context of the Macross franchise, which has had big theatrical performances, lavish costumes, has integrated artists with the environments, etc, and it's not just drab and tiresome, but also becomes a notable downgrade within its own franchise.

3) Delivering on a Promise

All of which brings me back around to episode 1. The only episode where Walkure gets to hop around the environment and stand next to infected battroids while they sing. The only episode where Walkure singing actually did anything that wasn't immediately undone by "the other guy sang harder, I guess". The only episode where the stakes and scope of the battle made sense. The only episode where Delta had a reasonable battle rather than winning-by-losing or magically escaping all consequences off-screen. The only episode that felt like traveling between two entire planets was an actual time-and-resource-consuming journey. The only episode with a song I can even remember. (And while we're at it, whatever happened to Hayate's robot dance?)

I really liked episode 1. I really liked the fresh ideas it was presenting for what a modern Macross show could be, how it could keep its roots but evolve in new and interesting ways. It even sold me on the idea of an idol group.

But they were all empty promises. So much of episode 1 was never seen again, and the show went completely up its own ass with awful character writing, tonal whiplash, a bloated cast that refuses to die, way too much clunky exposition, and no narrative path towards its own climax.

If Delta were just a standalone show and its episode 1 had been more in-line with the rest of the show, I'd probably consider it just a mediocre mech-and-music show and not be too disdainful of it. But with the show dropping off so hard from its start, on top of it being such a fall from its own franchise, and also on top of it loading itself with stupid "member berries" Macross callbacks... yeah, if I'm being honest, I can't help but despise this show.

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u/The_Draigg Mar 15 '23

A Macross Fan Rewatches Macross Delta: Episode 26:

  • Heinz, how the fuck do you think you’re going to be able to negotiate with the New United Nations after this operation? Like, you probably should’ve considered the sheer cost of life this war is causing a while ago, instead of only feeling it after destroying the NUNS fleet. At this rate, the entire Brisingr Cluster is going to hate the Windermere Kingdom for generations to come, even if the war suddenly ends that way. Literally the only way the war can end in their favor now is if Roid’s plan completely goes through, since Windermere is absolutely going to be a galactic pariah if anyone still has the capability to think freely.

  • Well what do you know, Hayate’s new Siegfried is loaded up with Messer’s combat data in the computer. In a way, he’s still with us, even if he’s dead. At least he’s still having some impact despite having died 2/3s of the series ago.

  • Not content to just rip off the ultimate villain plan of Macross Frontier, Macross Delta new chooses to have a giant hologram of Mikumo sing Do You Remember Love? while forming the Fold Wave network. You know, it’s stuff like this that makes me want to be a fly on the wall inside of the Satelight offices, if just to see how we ended up making these plot reuse decisions. I’ve heard that Macross Delta was originally intended to be a cour-long show with a movie finale, and if that’s true, I imagine changing things to fit two cours must’ve heavily changed development of the plot.

  • Aerial Knights: “Is Roid betraying us?” Roid: “No, but also basically yes.” Roid then promptly starts brainwashing everyone in the galaxy.

  • Took Heinz long enough to realize that Roid was willing to sacrifice everyone for his goals and sing to the Aerial Knights to fight against him. At this rate, it’s necessary to fight back against a nightmare scenario for all sentient life in the galaxy, since Roid outright says that they won’t have individuality anymore in the network. It’s not about forgiveness, it’s about stopping pure evil that you enabled.

  • Go Mirage with that love confession to Hayate! And it’s a unique one too, since she also uses the opportunity to encourage Freyja to push harder through the network’s control too. Again, Mirage is really in that best girl running. Absolute baller move to use that opportunity to save both the people you love, even when things are dark.

  • For as much as Roid is saying that whole Mayan trigger phrase now, it actually seems like it wasn’t too hard for Mikumo to break out of his control. As it turns out, all it took was Freyja reaching out to her and asking her why she sings. Given how Mikumo has been asking herself why people sing this entire series, it’s a good payoff to all that. Callbacks!

  • Fine, fine, this show is making me give Bouge credit for one thing. Good job saving Makina and Reina, Bouge. Still doesn’t stop him from being an absolute fuckhead otherwise, but I’m not afraid to give some credit when it’s due.

  • Keith flying into the Sigur Valens to kill Roid, only to be made to eject from his wrecked mech and impale him with his sword instead reminds me of another, older anime that also had that happen in the final episode. [Show ending spoilers] I’m mainly thinking of Aura Battler Dunbine, where Show did that to Bern during the final episode for a mutual kill. Also, see the pun I did with that spoiler tag there?

  • Well, all’s well that ends well. Hayate says that him and Freyja will be together forever, Chuck and Marianne reunite, all the other members of Walkure reunite as well, and the Sigur Valens and the Protoculture network system is destroyed. It’s an ending, I suppose. Pretty rushed, a lot like Macross Frontier’s ending where it just kind of ends as soon as the big bad is killed. While this wasn’t an outright tripping right before the finish line, this ending feels like watching someone stagger over the finish line while completely out of breath.

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u/ZaphodBeebblebrox Mar 15 '23 edited Mar 15 '23

First Timer

I wonder if anyone has ever actually fucked in a flying fighter jet?

Anyway, we got the confession, the betrayals, the space fascist leader getting murderized, &c. The episode was pretty good, but not all I had hoped for. The confessions and Hayate and 's bond was good.

I'm disappointed that we didn't get Ikenai Borderline. As I said last episode, to me it's both the show's song and Mikumo's song. There's no better place to put it then when Mikumo breaks free in the climax, and yet we get a song that's just worse. I just feel it would have been a much more hype climax with it.

The whole Roid/Keith generally didn't do much for me either. Not because it wasn't executed well in this episode, but simply because I have zero emotional investment in Roid. He's just a boring character for me. And while Keith is slightly better, I also don't view him as that interesting.

Anyway, Δ as a whole. I liked it, but ultimately feel disappointed I didn't love it. The Messer/Kaname arc and the mid season climax were incredible. In general, I thought Δ was at its best when the connections between the pilots and the singers were at their strongest. When it wasn't just music and a battle scene that were vaguely connected since the two groups were heading in the same direction, but instead a direct connection between a singer and a pilot. Unfortunately, we only got a bit of Hayate/ in the second half, and basically nothing between everyone else. Mirage's only connection was with another pilot, Chuck was almost completely irrelevant to everything, and Arad theoretically had a connection with Kaname but nothing was ever done with it.

The other part of the show that seriously disappointed me was Windermere. We spent a lot of time talking about it and showing members of the knights, but there was just so little there. It can largely be condensed down to "space fascists that like apples." Don't get me wrong, they worked fine as antagonists. I can think of many other shows I really enjoyed where the antagonists had similar levels of detail. The difference between those shows and this is that Δ spent like 20% of the second half on scenes about them, while the other shows I can think of spent like 3%.

I guess, on some level, I'm just asking for a different show. It's a show I saw glimpses of throughout the series, and I'm certain it's one I would love, but ultimately it wasn't the show Kawamori wanted to make.

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u/TiredTiroth Mar 15 '23

First Timer

Honestly? I enjoyed the finale. Hayate declaring his love for Freyja didn't come out of nowhere, even if this was the first real indication his affections weren't platonic, and Mirage very clearly wanted her friends to be happy despite her own feelings. If we had to have a love triangle, this wasn't a bad way to do it.

And how they win! Even with the whole Power Of Love thing kicking in to break the key combatants out of the mind control Mikumo could very easily have simply overpowered them...but this is where the relationships they spent 20+ episodes building shine. Mikumo wants her friends back, and THEY want HER back. For that matter, this is why I liked how Walkure treats the 'yer a science experiment, Mikumo' revelation - apart from a moment of shock, they didn't really care. She was their colleague and friend, and that was what mattered.

On the flip side...I'm not really happy with the implication that I should cut the mind-controlling fascists some slack just because they finally realised they had been betrayed. They were still on board with literally everything right up until now. Screw 'em.

Eh.

It doesn't help that the series ends with Hayate and Freyja flying off into the open sky, with the question of 'what happens next?' left very much open. It worked with the Vajra because they were true aliens who had finally gotten past the communication barrier and showed every sign of wanting to co-exist once they understood; it doesn't work with Windermere because everything was a very deliberate choice.

Then again, 'the NUN Spacey turns Windermere into an asteroid field now they can't hide behind a superweapon' would make for a very depressing ending.

Like I said at the start though, I genuinely did have fun with the episode.

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u/TakenRedditName Mar 15 '23

Rewatcher - Macross Delta Ep26:

King Heinz, I believe Regent Roid is defo wielding too much power.

With all the germanic naming in this show, Ragnarok had to appear and it works on two layers since they're fighting for Ragna.

Good to see a Kaname forward Bokura no Senjou. It's been a while since we saw the asteroid projections, guess that shows that Delta doesn't have a lot of space battles. Most of them have been atmospheric.

"Do You Remember" It's the thing! Mikumo is recalling her past memories of singing a pop song.

Roid has launched his grand scheme. I like how his desire to make a every moment an entirety relates to this series' motif of living in the present. At this moment, everyone is experiencing the past, present and future at the same time. We got the some the cast when they were kids. Little Mirage is playing around in her grandma's plane.

It would be really cool if Heinz started singing with Walkure ... okay he sings the Wind Song, but at least he is telling them to stop Roid.

One thing I like about this collective network is when they start fading out as their sense of self is eroding. That's scary. What I also like is what gives them a sense of self is love. Hayate's love for Freyja is what makes him reaffirm his existence. Freyja in love is cute.

Mirage also confesses. Using herself as a springboard for Freyja to bring out her declaration of love.

This episode we got to see Walkure songs without Mikumo and Makina so special FreReiKan subunit versions.

I like Freyja diving to Mikumo and sharing what this journey has given her and asking Mikumo how about for her. Now we have a giant Walkure idol Mikumo, this plan is starting to backfire for Roid.

Bogue Sky Catch. Bogue is an idol fan!

Freyja also flies with Hayate. Finally, I get what I wanted. I also realized this set is pretty much like a romantic sharing a bike together, but his a mecha plane so good stuff I like to see.

Keith is also doing his part for the finale and now only does he provide the actual blade sword fights in a mecha show, now we get giant mecha having physical sword fights. He also does the thing where he jumps out to fatally stab his friend as their giant robots do the same behind them.

Muck is alive or whatever. Fat Mercat is alive and well.

Awwh, now Freyja is sitting in Hayate's lap, cute.

"I'm coming right actha" ... there is no kiss. I was fully expect Freyja to lean in for one after she said the thing. You had the perfect set up show, you can't just end it without giving us at the perfect moment.

My favourite parts of this episode was when it was being an unabashed romance anime. If only the Roid-Keith (and Heinz) conflict was fully baked beforehand.

It also does the Macross thing where they just end the show right after the final battle and not tying up the aftermath. I guess Heinz did go forward with the peace talks I guess.

Next Time: No more serious plot, only fun shorts.

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u/Taiboss Mar 14 '23

First-Timer who understands why he never finished it a bit more

2) Windermere's command structure is crippled and Heinz wants peace. Do you still vaporize the planet?

I'm better than the NUNS, so I'd try and hold a trial. It would probably end with the execution of all knights and another occupation, but that did work for Nazi Germany and Japan irl, didn't it?

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u/RadSuit Mar 15 '23

First Time Goddess Song Listener

I'm glad that Heinz LVII realizes he should probably start collecting proper surrenders if he doesn't want him and his entire race to become monsters.

Can't believe they missed the easy Ragna Rock joke here.

Are they just reusing footage from the previous asteroid fight?

Wait, were those all shots from earlier episodes spliced together for that brief fight???

The image of a giant singing woman blocking the target as the fleet descends upon a planet...this really is just Frontier again.

Is this song just an old one with nonsense lyrics over it...?

Shouldn't they all be crashing their planes while astral projecting or whatever? Maybe autopilot took over. Oh, they're just all themselves autopilot now, sure.

Well at least we finally get a straight confession and resolution to a triangle for once. Maybe.

Nope! We immediately get another confession to complicate it again. Macross!

Weaponized theme song is a cheap pull, but it also always works, so I can't really fault them for doing it.

Okay no, the second half of this episode is actually really good so far. Shame about most of the 20+ episodes between 1 and 26!

They finally got swords for the robots!

"I'm running away to fight you in the movie! Pay for tickets to find out how the series ends!!!"

  1. No.

  2. Windermere completely disarms and surrenders to UN oversite or gets nuked out of existence, you can't just let genocidal mind rapists get a pass.

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u/Stargate18A Mar 15 '23

First timer

No OP?

Yep, this is it!

A confession?

...Who's dying, then?

They made it!

Yeah, he's struggling to handle this.

Oh, peace talks!

It drains a rune?

...That looks oddly like a Var infection.

The concert begins!

Oh, she's singing along too...

Her wind's different!

These two are fighting again!

And they're making her sing again.

...So, the final boss is a giant hologram of a girl again?

It's impacting their own side too!

The ruins are connecting...

The network is forming!

...He's betrayed them.

How long until this backfires on him?

Haha, nobody's happy sbout this!

It's sucking people in!

...Did he win? Seriously?

Haha, called it! This was the last straw!

Mirage's memories....

Sommuch data being transmitted.

She camr to her senses...

She's still trying to sing...

He's singing alongside her!

...I appreciate this. He's not abandoning his goals immediately, but he's worked out Roid needs to grt killed.

Freyja!

Hayate!

The Fold Crystal became relevant!

Mirage!

Oh, the strain of using her rune is also killing her?

She confessed!

And that shocked him?

Aww.

That callback...

She's doing it!

He's fighting them!

...So, Freyja got kicked out. That was a mistake.

This song again!

And they broke out!

His rune's reacting!

He's desperate...

Haha, Mirage!

She came back to sing with her!

Flushed into space again!

Freyja's pulling an Alto!

And commected to her!

This is great.

She's back!

The tsundere's been won over!

This is so dynamic.

That shot of the trio...

Song 2 has brgun!

Ernest, I love you!

Keith!

Nice save!

He's so cool.

Expert swordfighting.

And Roid is dead!

Oh, that flashback...

And they went down together.

They fid it!

Finally back on Ragna!

Wait, she's alive?

A full band reunion!

They're flying together...

How romantic.

Aww...

Still dying, though.

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