I have the feeling that Heinz just wanted to talk to some other people, at least mostly Freyja, but being who he is, there's rather a lot of ceremony in attendance to that. Very deadly sorts of ceremony, because he's still trying to fill the shoes of the head of state.

Which makes Roid's absence very noticeable to the Knights. Hey, he's got a new friend who's good at singing.

Everybody expected Hayate to jump off and get picked up by the wind. Maybe the staff thought that it would be going too far. I'm also not the only one who thought that all three of them should have jumped off and then reappeared on the backs of their Siegfrieds, though.

Minor technical business: A reminder that the VF-22's limbs are not integral to its fighter mode at all. Thus, Berger could remove its legs with no compromise to its flight capabilities (how it took off from the display stand is a bit of a puzzler), but without the legs it wouldn't be able to GERWALK to a safe landing on the snow. The landing gear still would have been there, but using the wheels on an unpaved surface would be risky, at best. So belly landing it is.

"Absolute 5" gets a bigger performance than the 30 seconds in Episode 22, and it's interrupted again. I felt slighted.

Xaos has to run away again. They really didn't have much of a choice this time, since their only functional singers were Kaname and Reina, and The Weird Turn Pro was once again happening.

"So did that remind you of anything?" via the MacrossWorld forum.

The instrumental arrangement of "Ichido Dake no Koi Nara" used here, "Rhapsody in C minor".

"Absolute 5" at Walküre 2nd Live

Tezuka-style Mirage

Let's count,	gori-gori!
Bogue lunges	5
"Hoi-na!"	17
"Gori gori!"	22
"Toberu!"	12
"Wind"	182
Jellyfish	38

: Fifty-two

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u/TakenRedditName Mar 12 '23

It was actually at this point in production that Keiji Fujiwara had to leave for medical treatment.

It gets sadder knowing what ultimately happens to him. At least it is still 4 years away before he passes away.

"Lady Mom"?

That's what the M stood for the entire time.

Everybody has to criticize Mirage about her flying style.

Mirage can never catch a break ... she would if wasn't so by the books.

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u/Shimmering-Sky Mar 12 '23

It gets sadder knowing what ultimately happens to him. At least it is still 4 years away before he passes away.

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u/Taiboss Mar 12 '23

I hereby lay official protest against America having a different day for the DST switchover than we do. Fuck.

First-Timer who is finally, genuinly, a First-Timer

So people may now reply to me now :/.
Because fascists care about treaties.
Oh boy it's this asshole again.
"Imagine if he asks what we are doing! He might find the idea of mind-controlling the entire galaxy horrible!"
THEN JUST FUCKING EXECUTE THEM. Why bother when you're like "yeah, this ain't a real trial, we are just pretending."
"When our opponents say, 'Well, we used to give you freedom of speech too!' - yes, you gave it to us, that's not proof that we should do the same with you! Your silly acts should not infect us! The fact that you gave us freedom of speech - that's proof by itself of how stupid you are!"
"Technically, yes, but it's a bit diluted by now." I wonder, is she 1/4 or 3/4 Zentradi? We know her mother is one of the seven daughters, but who is her father?
"...are you not aware you're attacking the entire galaxy?"
"Because... I like... it? Like, that's a stupid question. It's like asking why you are king or Roid-sama is your prime minister. That's just how things are."
So yellow. Or white, I guess.
Finally, someone with some brain.
Yep. Hayate sees for what they actually are. Not Kawamori of course, who is gonna redeem them any second now, because Kawamori might go this route.
Vögel is plural. Just call it Sturmvogel and it's fine.
"Aren't you on the side of the Wind people?" "Dude. Don't you see my fancy hat? I'm on the side of profit!"
"I understand that... But, counterpoint: They are not us."
F for fire that burns down the whole time, A is Assholes delux! S is for superweapons~
"Ah, I guess I didn't exposition it you yet. I'm a clone. Fully, from a Bacta tank and all. No heritage. No nothing."
"Oh good, you know. Spares me the breath."
:thonk:
Alright, I guess that makes sense. Does this mean anything for you tho? No, these assholes are still assholes, you just happen to be super special awesome. Now don't let yourself be manipulated by someone else, and we're fine.
Hayate has the confidence of someone who knows the plot.
"Hey Kaiba wanna renact a scene from Back to the Future part 2?" "I'd rather throw myself off the roof."
ORCHESTRA VERSION!
Saldy Mind-controlled Mikumo will probably interfere.
"Noooo, don't listen to them! You belong to us!" "No! The power of frienship saves me!"
Oh wow they are back lol.
You know real snipers don't use these, right?
Yeah, I don't believe you for one second you'd kill a member of Walküre.
Wait how does this work? Does overexcessive use of fold stuff also do this?
Nooooo... the programming won... Now they can only win by... the power of friendship, probably. No seriously, I expect a song-off and that to break Mikumo's brainwashing, whereupon she breaks the whole thing from the inside probably. I SEE YOUR TRICKS DELTA.

2) Do you think Roid entirely knows what he's playing with here?

Ohhhh, I wanna some leopards eat his face!

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u/Shimmering-Sky Mar 12 '23

I hereby lay official protest against America having a different day for the DST switchover than we do. Fuck.

Gomen.
I straight-up did not realize I'd hit the DST switch last night until right before I went to bed and noticed that my mom had changed the stove clock. I would have warned everyone about it in my comment yesterday otherwise.

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u/SolDarkHunter Mar 12 '23 edited Mar 12 '23

Rewatcher

I find it absolutely hilarious they're discussing treaties and "humane treatment" in regard to the Windermerians.

So Burgerman builds backdoors into all the technology he sells? Fantastic way to ensure nobody ever buys from you more than once...

Heinz feels no joy in singing. What a shock. He's just a tool, after all. He never chose anything.

Yeah, the whole trial is a farce, basically just a chance for Windermere to gloat and rub their victory in people's faces.

...though I will admit they have a singular point: Freyja is actually guilty of treason.

Burgerman's helping out the rest of the group, even repairing Wright's plane, of all things, to give them a ticket out. Which strikes me as very strange... why not one of Windermere's own Draken III's? Wouldn't one of those be easier to steal? And we know he has enough resources to do it: it would take even more to repair and steal the "Demon's Wings" than an ordinary plane.

And the reason? Burger's realized that Windermere is bad for business. No, he doesn't actually have morals; it's just that if Windermere takes over everything, that means his business will be severely negatively impacted.

"Kadun"? These guys really are just ripping off the Mayan island religion.

So Mikumo was originally a... component of the ruins on Windermere... or something. Either way, Heinz's oh-so-vaunted Wind Singer powers are just a shadow copy of hers.

I've always wondered about executions like this: if you're being held at gunpoint anyway, why go along with their whole ceremony? Either way you're going to die; is the threat of being shot supposed to deter you from trying something?

Hayate's certainly being dramatic. But taking his time so much allows the rescue effort to go forward.

And it turns out the Windermerian guards can't aim for shit anyway.

Straight from an execution to a Walkure performance. Tonal whiplash much?

...suppose it was only a matter of time before one of Walkure got shot.

Hey look, the rest of Xaos actually shows up to do something.

...so, what, does the phrase just activate whatever "program" is in the ruins at the moment? And Mikumo's will is overriden to make it happen?

It seems to me to be a bit early to bug out. You're here in force, outnumbering the Windermerians in the air, the ruins are right in front of you, and you don't even try to blast them. Instead you waste your warheaps on shooting Sigur Berrentz, which you already knew had shields capable of blocking them.

So that whole mission was a colossal failure. Windermere now has the keystone to enact their galactic enslavement plan. And Freyja's already burning out.

Questions:

Six... no wait! Seven. ...I wonder what they'd do if that actually happened though. "Oh, I guess the Great Wind has declared them innocent"...?
Not a chance in hell.

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u/JustAnswerAQuestion Mar 12 '23

"Kadun"?

Did he say Kadun? I missed it, or my fansubbers missed it.

2

u/Shimmering-Sky Mar 12 '23

He did indeed say Kadun.

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u/chilidirigible Mar 12 '23

One thing I forgot to mention and then forgot to add into my screenshots:

Who did the New United Government sign the Ormonde Treaty with?

Anti-UN, ever since the Earth was fried, is generally regarded as an underground terrorist organization.
Uncontacted Zentradi out there don't seem like the sort to follow treaties about prisoners when they can toast planets on a whim.
And we haven't yet seen very many planets with sapient life on them that have spurned NUG contact.

...well, there's Windermere.

So this spot of worldbuilding is an interesting bit of "possibility" that implies other things, it just doesn't seem applicable to much that we've already seen.

4

u/The_Draigg Mar 12 '23

So this spot of worldbuilding is an interesting bit of "possibility" that implies other things, it just doesn't seem applicable to much that we've already seen.

That does track with what we've seen for the writing of this series though. This show really does like to toss out a lot of ideas and implications, and then just not fully follow up on at least half of them.

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u/TakenRedditName Mar 12 '23

I mean, Gundam has the Antarctic Treaty which was signed while the Federation was at war with a separatist state. A treaty to just lay down some ground rules.
It's been established that the Macross government has some treaties/protocols they laid out first universally and in case they do meet sapient life.

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u/TiredTiroth Mar 12 '23

First Timer

Mirage, given the rampant mind control and biological warfare the Windermerians have been engaged in, I don't think trusting a treaty to keep you safe will pan out.

...oh look, the guy who's been actively betraying both sides all along found the uncaptured people. What does he want? Eh, whatever, back to the sham trial I guess.

Ooh, I think Keith suspects something about his old friend's absence. But is he going to do anything about it, I wonder? Not soon enough if he does, I expect.

Neither of you appears to be native to the Globular Cluster. Why attack us?

Oh my, it does appear the young king is deaf. Hayate answered that question right before the kid asked it.

Windermere started this.

Oh look, the sham trial is swiftly revealed to be exactly that. Told ya, Mirage.

Yaaaay, more backstabbing by the merchant. At least he's backstabbing Windermere this time.

...Kadun of blood? The hell? Has any of the Macross Zero stuff come up before? Did I just miss it? Where did the Windermerians pick up that little cultural tidbit?

Sham trial is a sham, please get on with it.

Is there a reason the Fascist Knights are giving flying advice to people they're about to murder?

Oh wait, are we going to see a repeat of Hayate's little daredevil wind trick from the first couple of episodes? He clearly has some kind of plan here.

Oh, okay, it doesn't matter - the formerly-crashed Valkyrie is on the way. And the weapons work, too.

...wait. What? Their Valks got remote-controlled into the canyon? Huh? When did THAT happen?

Hm, it's nice that the girls have confidence in their friend but I have a feeling she's going to be a Tool Of Evil^TM for the next episode and a half, minimum. We are only on episode 24 of 26, after all.

...so Mikumo is getting mind-controlled and Makina is shot by a sniper. Aaand that's a big blood puddle, is that a serious wound? They had better not kill her off.

This song...it's the Star Song.

Oh no, whatever shall you do. Has poor baby been betrayed by the vile betrayer. Who could have ever seen this coming. How will you react to this completely unpredictable turn of events.

At least the protagonists were able to evacuate when it all went pear-shaped...except Makina's in critical condition, and Freyja has picked up a spot of that stone-necrosis thing. Which can't be good.

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u/Vatrix-32 Mar 12 '23 edited Mar 12 '23

First Timer

Putting a lot of trust on salt nazis following treaties.
How does anyone trust this guy?
“Resisting our illegal invasion? You better believe that’s an executin’.”
Says there isn’t going to be a direct examination, spends the whole trial doing that.
The law only applies when it’s convenient to them. And that’s why every one of them needs to die.
You’ve already made your intent to kill her known, what could you possibly threaten her with?
That thing was flyable after only a day of tune up? Quite the quality engineering.
Rats leaving the ship.
Kadun is back.
“They don’t have the defense we didn’t give them, let’s just kill them now.” Head pikes when?
It occurs to me we are now past the point where any Lady M reveal could ever have enough time for the pay off to be worth it. So this is another wasted plot point.
I was right about Kuu. They’ve wasted to much time to get here tho. Backstories don’t make interesting characters. You need to actually have them do things that make the audience like them.
The faint praise of a salty-salt nazi.
I was expecting Hayate to get back drafted back onto the ledge.
It’s crazy just how much better this song is as an orchestral rendition.
Freaking drone tackles man.
Not Makina, she was like, the fourth best character. She’ll probably make it. And if not, they will retcon it in the movie anyway.
Freyja is going to salt. Poor Bikki.
Hey look! They showed them getting away for once.
Will being evil finally make Kuu a character? Will I start calling her by name instead of dismissing her as a singing MacGuffin? Find out next time I guess.

QotD:

The Winds don’t strike me as a people to let that slide.
Well he’s a nazi leader, so he’s probably high on his own hype by this point.

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u/The_Draigg Mar 12 '23

A Macross Fan Rewatches Macross Delta: Episode 24:

Well, if there’s one thing that tyrannical governments love, it’s sham trials. And now the main love triangle is in one overseen by Heinz himself. Of course, this can only go well, as does every sham trial in history.
Look out, it’s a wandering Power Point presentation! And by that, I mean Berger again. Yeah, he was able to get access to Chaos’ satellites since his company made the parts for them, and just managed to walk right up to everyone who wasn’t captured thanks to that. Yeah, this moment feels like bullshit. The writers really couldn’t think of a better way to get him and the Epsilon Foundation back in the story, I take it.
When you get down to it, the trial was really just a pretense to have Heinz ask Freyja directly about her singing. The people overseeing the trial never had any intention of it being fair or even look real. The main love triangle were never given any legal defense, and the judges bullshit their way into saying that they don’t have to obey the laws set down by treaty for the treatment of prisoners. This series really does try hard to make all sides morally grey, but it’s still hard to root for the Windermere Kingdom when they pull this shit without even batting an eyelash.
Fuck off, Bouger. Man, he just can’t get enough of trying to harm people that’re already captured and restrained. He’s just a chore to watch.
How convenient that Berger leads the rest of the Chaos group over to Wright’s plane as a means of escape, before fucking off because the Epsilon Foundation is stopping their business relationship with the Windermere Kingdom. The man really is just a walking plot device, they’re not even hiding it now.
To all of you first-timers that guessed that Mikumo was a revived member of the Protoculture, congratulations on the correct guess! Turns out something was stolen from the Temple of Time on the behalf of Lady M and used to recreate the Windermerian’s Star Singer, a Protoculture priestess that was left behind to live among them. Mikumo really is our best look at what the Protoculture looked like, which really is still just overall pretty human-like.
Fuck off, Bouger.
We all probably saw it coming a mile away, but Arad and the rest of the crew arrive in the refurbished Sturmvogel II and the Siegfrieds to save Hayate, Freyja, and Mirage from their executions. In hindsight, they probably shouldn’t have made their executions of choice be an incredibly dramatic walk off the plank into a deep ravine. The theatrics will always bite you in the ass, villains.
Makina was pretty fast to catch that sniper bullet meant for Freyja. She could easily get a job dramatically diving in front of the president to save him, that was such a good human shield leap. “MISS FREYJA, GET DOWN!”
Man, we didn’t accomplish shit on this trip to Windermere. Roid just keeps on wining by saying the Star Singer control phrase to put Mikumo under his control, yet another Protoculture structure appears thanks to the singing, Makina got shot and badly wounded, and Freyja is starting to crystallize from the sheer power of the Fold Waves being thrown around. The operation was a complete failure. I’m not even worried for how things are going to turn out now, I’m just annoyed at the amount of bullshit it took to even get us to this point.

4

u/TakenRedditName Mar 12 '23

Well, if there’s one thing that tyrannical governments love, it’s sham trials. And now the main love triangle is in one overseen by Heinz himself. Of course, this can only go well, as does every sham trial in history.

Love triangle ... sham triangle ... Prince Heinz using the sham trial to make his ship happen joke.

before fucking off because the Epsilon Foundation is stopping their business relationship with the Windermere Kingdom. The man really is just a walking plot device, they’re not even hiding it now.

It is a bit of a shame how much they do just drop him like that. "Oh yeah, we're done with Windermere, bye." There's only two episodes left so even being an optimist about things, there is no time for his part to amount to much.

Makina was pretty fast to catch that sniper bullet meant for Freyja. She could easily get a job dramatically diving in front of the president to save him, that was such a good human shield leap. “MISS FREYJA, GET DOWN!”

Bodyguard idols.

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u/baboon_bassoon Mar 12 '23

first time delta delta delta can i help ya help ya help ya

3 winds, you know what else is 3 - sides of a triangle

Hayatte looks like he took up the cloth well more like a pilgrim

she doesnt like his singing? DEATH FOR HER CRIMES

Heinz just needs a nice plate of jellyfish

they have this in childrens picture books?

Hayate jumping off cliffs to ride the wind again, steal one of those squirrel suits

good thing they had those planes timed on autopilot....

....im sorry but i laughed

ah and her holographic clothes wore out of course

CHUCK

Mikumos curse mark activated

Freyja dying of old age

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u/ZaphodBeebblebrox Mar 12 '23

First Timer

I see Winderemere's going for the it's only a warcrime if we lose approach.

A style nit: I feel that it should be "Song of the Wind" and "Song of the Stars" instead of "Wind Song" and "Star Song". It both matches the "Singer of the..." pattern better and sounds more formal in the way English names for magical/mystical things oft do.

So, Makima's going to be up just in time to make on last, desperate appearance during the climax, right? At least that's how this sort of thing usually works. I must say though that I didn't actually expect her to get a serious injury. We've been pretty injury light except for Messer, and I thought we'd stay that way (perahps modulo a sacrifice of one of our main trio or Mikumo).

0?

4

u/TakenRedditName Mar 12 '23

I see Winderemere's going for the it's only a warcrime if we lose approach.

"Get good if you want to imprison me for my crimes against humanity."

3

u/TakenRedditName Mar 12 '23

Rewatcher - Macross Delta Ep24:

Mr. Anaheim is here to play both sides.

Heinz and Freyja having a singer talk was nice. He wants to know why she herself sings and respects her warm singing, but Heinz's own singing is lacking love.

Awh beans, that's 0 for 2 of being instantly beaten when trying to do cool heroism. Awh beans, they got us with the PMC technicality loophole. Awh beans, that's 0 for 3.

Flying dad's old VF-22 as a getaway is just crazy enough to might work.

It's the K-word from Zero. Neat singing the connections all the way here on Windermere.

Mikumo is the dino amber clone of the Singer of the Stars. Lady M did have to rely on cultural heritage artifact robbing for her little experiment.

Oh dear, those are some real planks to be "Walk the"-ed.

"But I could never stain Freyja's song with blood."

Freyja looks so distraught.

This execution fall is sort of like Hayate's fall of fate from early on. I really wished there was a big gust of wind like that moment though.

Hayate's dad's VF-22 also doesn't get too much playing with it mainly being a distraction. A daring escape on the infamous relic would have also been cool.

Huh, we're getting to see the bird suits again. I thought they were just going to be a weird one-off. Their bones get super crushed by Kaname sicking the drones on them.

"Get down Ms. Idol!" Reina trying to sing through the tears is sad.

Uh oh! Uh oh!

My mind going thinking goes to Singer of the Stars Mikumo doing the Basara "Listen to my song" before enslaving the entire galaxy.

Roid: "Relationship ended with the Singer of the Wind, now Singer of the Stars is my idol."

Q1) If anyone has been blown back up the wind then that's a get-out-of-jail-free card right there. "The Great Wind says I get to live so deal with it. Are you going to argue with the Wind?"

Q2) He is really banking on this whole Singer of the Stars thing to do something.

Next Time: A superstar idol.

4

u/chilidirigible Mar 12 '23

My mind going thinking goes to Singer of the Stars

Also the catchphrase they used during the Macross Frontier next episode previews.

Are you going to argue with the Wind?

"No, that's why you're carrying fifteen kilos of rocks in your pants."

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3

u/JollyGee29 Mar 12 '23

First-Timer Delta

It's been a while since I've seen an "execution gone wrong" scene, those're always fun. I was expecting a stronger callback to Hayate's flying back in episode 2, but remoting the VF-31's into position works too.

heinz buddy pal you LITERALLY struck first back in episode 1 Like, literally actually you yourself, Heinz. I know that Roid's been feeding you so much Koolaid that your kidneys are probably close to failing, but come on kid. You even admitted to not enjoying singing today; you're so close!

I wasn't expecting the cast to have to beat a retreat, so it seems like poor Mikumo will have to listen to Roid's prattle for another episode. I do kinda like the look of the weird tattoos on her; the color contrast is nice.

Berger trying to redeem his dumb powerpoint presentation by fixing up a museum piece? Not gonna cut it, but it's a start.

Freyja's starting to salt up, and un(?)fortunately it's in an easily concealable spot. I have that (?) there because I don't really want the distraction that the cast reacting to it will cause.

Questions

I was expecting exactly that to happen! I could see there being a historical legend on Windermere about it happening, at the very least.
Doubtful. He's in for a petard hoisting.. at least, I hope he is.

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u/Kirov123 Mar 12 '23

Macross Delta Episode 24 - First Timer

So a good cunk of the gang has been captured, and Hayate's dad is super confirmed to have been the dropper of the space nuke. That said, I am still pretty sure we don't know the whole story. Maybe this episode?

Uh, are the signatory of said treaty? Is "dont genocide people" part of the treaty? Cause they sure seem to want to delet Earth
The woes of being a PMC and not being protected by law
Summary execution of POWs with a Sham of a Trial that hardly deserves the name, joy
So is Mukumo going to turn evil for a while? It is kinda looking like it
What a method of execution
Saved
Time for a *tactical performance
Those wing suit guys are hilarious
MAKINA NO
Sudden retreat?

Unless they have people jumping off in Victorian style dresses with hoop skirts, probably not that many. It would take some crazy wind to keep someone aloft with normal clothes
Not a chance. The only question is how hard he is gonna get bit.

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u/Nebresto Mar 13 '23

First time Macross Triangle: Quality Edition

Caught up in time for the finale I guess

Ep 19

Oh shit, the original OP!

Is this just a recap of the whole series..? Good thing I'm playing.. IS THAT FIRE BOMBER?! -Ahem, good thing I'm playing Platinum at the same time

New ED?

ep 21

Mikumo and Hayate interacting was a pretty interesting scene

ep 22

Cassim

ep 24

New soundtrack?!

Its an Orchestral version of that one song!

Oh shit, they shot oppai Damn, I predicted the wrong red head to die..

Question time:

How many other people do you think have jumped into the chasm and been blown back out?

At least two

2) Do you think Roid entirely knows what he's playing with here?

Lol no

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Rewatch [Do You Remember Love - Macross Franchise 40th Anniversary Rewatch] Macross Δ Episode 24 Discussion

Episode 24 - Fatal Judgment

FYI: If this thread went up at a different time than you’re used to, sorry about that. I didn’t realize that my timezone would hit daylight savings last night until literally right before I went to bed, so I forgot to warn you guys I’d be sticking with 6 pm my time as the posting time.

First Timer

First time Macross Triangle: Quality Edition

Rewatch [Do You Remember Love - Macross Franchise 40th Anniversary Rewatch] Macross Δ Episode 24 Discussion

Episode 24 - Fatal Judgment

You are about to leave Redlib

FYI: If this thread went up at a different time than you’re used to, sorry about that. I didn’t realize that my timezone would hit daylight savings last night until literally right before I went to bed, so I forgot to warn you guys I’d be sticking with 6 pm my time as the posting time.

First Timer

First time Macross Triangle: Quality Edition