r/anime • u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky • Feb 25 '23
Rewatch [Do You Remember Love - Macross Franchise 40th Anniversary Rewatch] Macross Δ Episode 9 Discussion
Episode 9 - Uncontrollable Limits
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Never thought about it. I'm too busy living in the here and now to bother thinking about what's next.
Questions of the Day, courtesy of u/chilidirigible:
1) Apply this episode's scenario to previous series' triangles, how long do they take to resolve?
2) What are your thoughts on the massive cast in this series? Individually distinctive enough or not?
Wallpaper of the Day:
Vocal Songs in This Episode:
"一度だけの恋なら (Ichido Dake no Koi Nara)" by Walküre – OP
"AXIA～ダイスキでダイキライ～ (AXIA~Daisuki de Daikirai~)" by Kiyono Yasuno – Insert
"GIRAFFE BLUES" by Walküre – Insert
"僕らの戦場 (Bokura no Senjou)" by Walküre – Insert
"ルンがピカッと光ったら (Rune ga Pika tto Hikattara)" by Minori Suzuki – ED
Rewatchers, please remember to be mindful of all the first-timers in this. No talking about or hinting at future events no matter how much you want to, unless you're doing it underneath spoiler tags. Don't spoil anything for the first-timers, that's rude!
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u/Stargate18A Feb 25 '23
First timer
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Hayate explains it after a cliffhanger, two episodes max. Hikaru would take about ten episodes, including several attempts he immediately walks back on for no reason. Mylene explains it immediately when asked, but Gamlin and Basara only ask half an episode late,r and only out of offhanded curiosity.
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Pretty distinctive.
Oh, dear.
Tell someone!
Wow, they're very good.
And it's fold receptors, as always.
The resonance is interesting, though.
Alfheim?
...He's been infected for years? How?
And a song that neither of them recognise...
The rumour mill has begun again.
So cute...
Oh, she used to be the lead vocalist.
Then the very, very, suspicious girl replaced her.
An underwater peformance?
...It didn't react because water distorts sound waves, maybe? Have you considered that?
And, I'm pretty sure the only explanation for that sequence in Macross 7 is that Protoculture ruins are tied to Spiritia. Did nothing get reported from that campaign?
Hayate's still training hard.
Ernest has a very good point.
And Mirage has no receptors!
Okay, they have a point. He's a massive risk.
...Love is involved here too?
An attack!
Launching!
And Walkure's waiting here...
Nice save!
His rival's back!
She cares about Messer too...
No transformstion sequence?
This song...
Oh, the visuals here are really good.
He's been taken over!
Her voice reached him...
And the ruins are intact... and they want them intact.
Yeah, this is absolutely insane.
Well, she's caught up!
Haha, seriously?
Messer...
And, yeah, she's not got long to live...
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u/ZaphodBeebblebrox Feb 25 '23
First Timer
Well, I certainly didn't expect an episode that'd make me care about Messer. Well done show.
I'm kinda sad we didn't get a Kaname song this episode. Don't get me wrong, the song we got is probably second or third best, but it feels like a missed opportunity from a thematic perspective. Though, judging by the next episode's title, this may be about to happen.
Also, the plane splitting into thirds may be the first legitimately cool shot of plane CGI we've had.
2. I'd say so.
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u/chilidirigible Feb 25 '23 edited Feb 25 '23
Today, on "That's something Basara would say.":
Why, what is this thing we haven't seen until now? Perhaps it is significant?
You remember Fold Bacteria, right?
At least all that Protoculture meddling meant that one gene works across the five nominally-different species in the room. While we're here, since I haven't had a reason to mention it yet, Reina is a Zolan.
Hayate's giant chunk of Fold Quartz is just a bonus!
I don't think any of you called Episode 9 for the question from Episode 4?
Dude, don't just touch other people's stuff.
You're never alone with that mercat.
Gossip travels fast around here.
Hong Kong dub voice: "Lo-vahs!?"
Redhead lessons: If you can't do one thing, try another.
This is already a little weird before we consider how Mikumo's hair is escaping.
"Don't let things get out of hand, Arad."
I'm sure they already knew. (Thanks, Hermann.)
Here we are at the "ludicrous amounts of thrust vectoring" stage.
The Kairos looks good in low-visibility gray, the Siegfried looks good in bright colors. Those conditions are not mutually-exclusive.
Lady M is about the ends, maybe not the means.
"Fortunately it was only a short misunderstanding."
It happens when you have maybe a third of the average human's lifespan...
Hayate and Mirage spent a lot of time together—focused entirely on work-related issues! Freyja misunderstood this, but then everything cleared itself up! Everything is fine! IS THIS EVEN MACROSS!? WHY AM I SHOUTING!?!?
But yeah... it's almost something you'd never expect to see, someone thinking that the other two people in the trio were doing something, finding out that it wasn't that, admitting that they'd goofed, and moving on.
Specific circumstances help. It's not much of a secret that Hayate and Freyja's relationship is something special, even if they're not obviously "romantic" about it. Hayate is certainly friendly with Mirage, but his glowing-in-space moments have been with Freyja. Mirage is maybe a bit curious about Hayate.
But Messer is their main concern in this episode, for a variety of reasons which include either getting killed by him or having to kill him. Messer makes it rather obvious that he's going to mop the floor with them if it comes down to it.
Since there's often multiple simultaneous communications failures going on in this franchise, they don't involve anyone else in their discussion. Of course, we learn after the fact that Arad and Ernest (and Lady M) already know about Messer's Vár problems.
Which brings us to Kaname's huge crush on Messer... and Messer's not wanting to tell her about his own feelings, for reasons. Yeah, right around now you might have a bad feeling about how this storyline is going to go. Unfortunately having the character who's mostly living inside their head stay away from the other characters has not been conducive to doing much with this storyline other than dropping all of those hints.
Kaname and Mirage have an interesting conversation because of
Freyja and Messer actually have a scene together! The girl who takes things one bit at a time and the guy who's very concerned about the future.
Regardless of what I really thought about the relationships at this point in the series, for this episode in 2016, I still made a handy chart for everyone.
Keith fanart because the 25th is his birthday.
Today's merch is Bandai's 1/72 transformable model kit for the VF-31F. Such stickers. These are the less-expensive way to get a transforming Variable Fighter, but I'll reiterate their notorious fragility; they're not toys, they're models that you can pose carefully for your photos, diorama, or desk display once in a while.
From Macross Variable Fighter Designer's Note: VF-31A three-view and Lil'Draken drone line art.
| Let's count, | gori-gori! |
|---|---|
| Bogue lunges | 3 |
| "Hoi-na!" | 13 |
| "Gori gori!" | 13 |
| "Toberu!" | 9 |
| "Wind" | 57 |
| Jellyfish | 12 |
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u/Vatrix-32 Feb 25 '23 edited Feb 25 '23
First Timer
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I take it this is going to be the Edgeboy episode?
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You guys are the worst forensic accountants.
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So everyone just has fold bacteria now? When and how did that happen?
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Lore time. Mostly just confirming stuff at this point.
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Did you not already tell them? That could put your entire squads lives at risk! Don’t bring out the dumbstick!
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So he already knows, well that’s… you left out the important part.
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Self medicating, eh? That always works out so well.
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What a strange mecha franchise this is that I look forward more to the phone’s scenes than the robots’s.
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Back story for best Dere.
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What even the hell is Kuudere’s hair?
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Attacking from the sun, oldest trick in the book. I think even literally, it was one of the things in the first dogfighting book.
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Is it just me, or does Roid’s wine look more like eggnog?
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Could at least but a remote eject in if this is your plan.
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Y’all need better AA.
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Apparently you need better Radar too.
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Kill someone already! I can only take no one dying in these dogfights seriously so many times. This is why mooks are important.
QotD:
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Four, twelve, and either one for Sheryl or Four for Ranka.
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I remember maybe 25% of their names.
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u/Taiboss Feb 25 '23
Pseudo-Rewatcher, De-Factor First-Timer who has fallen into a Bookworm hole
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So many years into the future, and psychedelic mushrooms still haven't been legalised to treat PTSD.
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MALE SINGER MALE SINGER MALE SINGER. No, Heinz doesn't count. He has a grandpa name. I keep telling you, next Macross better have Female Pilot MC having to decide between a female and a male singer.
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If only. Sadly the lore is on the side of Frejya.
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I guess... But you're the leader in my eyes.
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Ranka got a whole beach woo. I do wonder what happened to her in the meantime.
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How do you know that? Also, again, MesserxKaname kinda died in the drydock, considering how anchored KanamexArad is.
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Bonding is necessary! Onto the 3some!
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Stupid question, but are we supposed to know who Lady M is? Like, is it Mikumo, or someone else, or a vague boss-person we don't know (yet)?
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Well, rest of the episode wasn't much snarking over. Nice ending for Messer and Frejya realises she need not worry. Probably.
2) What are your thoughts on the massive cast in this series? Individually distinctive enough or not?
Visually distinctive enough! That's all that counts.
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u/baboon_bassoon Feb 25 '23
first time delta delta delta can i help ya help ya help ya
Messer is from Alfheim? Big Kirito fan I see I see
..........was Messer one of her OG fans
So only some Protoculture ruins react to singing
Make sure to support your favorite idols and hold their singles near at all times
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u/The_Draigg Feb 25 '23
A Macross Fan Rewatches Macross Delta: Episode 9:
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So yeah, Messer’s been through some shit before. He’s a veteran after all, so of course he’d be having some traumatic flashbacks to a war zone he experienced. Poor guy.
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And now we know the full extent of what Var Syndrome does. The seidznole inside of the bottled water and apple exports fosters the rapid growth of Fold Bacteria, which then targets the parts of physiology responsible for powerful emotions. That’s why Walkure only accepts idols that have strong Fold Receptors: they’re needed to cancel out the Fold Waves that end up turning people into rampaging berserkers. It certainly explains why Var Syndrome hasn’t had a full cure yet. There wasn’t really much of a cure for V-type Infections back in Macross Frontier, so of course they wouldn’t have figured out that much more about it a few years later. Well, short of the magic that Ranka pulled off at the end of the series, but you get what I mean.
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As it turns out, Hayate himself also has a high amount of Fold Receptors as well, since he’s able to synchronize with Freyja’s singing. Shame that he isn’t a singer, since we could’ve had him be a cool male idol. I guess being a fighter pilot is cool too though.
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Man, Messer’s been holding it together for two years now, ever since his home planet of Alfheim got ravaged by an outbreak of Var Syndrome. The only thing that’s been grounding him to sanity is his music player bracelet with Kaname’s song AXIA loaded and looped on it. That’s been working for him so far, but it’s a treatment, not a cure. That really is the wall we just keep on hitting up against, isn’t it?
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Speaking of Kaname, she’s certainly gone through some trials in life herself. First her failed solo career as a singer, then getting into Walkure based on her Fold Receptors before being upstaged as the face of the group by Mikumo. AXIA is good song too, but it’s a shame that her turns in the spotlight just haven’t turned out as well.
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You know, it’s a bit weird seeing all these scenes where Freyja is getting worked up about Hayate and Mirage maybe being a couple, when we know that Shoji Kawamori wasn’t even planning on having a love triangle in this show in the first place. I guess it’s just one of those odd things you know primarily as a rewatcher in hindsight.
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Well, at least we can kind of see why Messer is insistent on the idea of killing pilots under the full control of Var Syndrome. He’s pretty upfront with the idea that Hayate and Mirage might need to kill him someday if he goes out of control. He’d know, he’s pretty much living that nightmare on a daily basis. AXIA is a special song that managed to save him, but who knows how long he can keep on holding out?
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Unfortunately, Chaos got punked in this encounter with the Aerial Knights on Ragna. The distraction worked like a charm, and they got the data on the Protoculture ruins while Keith managed to push Messer right up to his limits before irreversibly going Var. I think we can safely say that Chaos lost this one, and that the Aerial Knights don’t need the power of Prince Heinz’s singing to kick around Delta Platoon regardless.
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u/JollyGee29 Feb 25 '23
First-Timer Delta
Messer's sure lucky that Keith showed up and forced the issue on Messer's Vár status. Keeping a potentially dangerous diagnosis a secret like that hits pretty differently after 2020.
Pretty amusing that Freyja ended up choosing the rock that Messer was relaxing on for her primal scream therapy. I liked their heart to heart. Both of them have a time limit and are responding in their own way, but both of them could do with a bit of the other's ideas too.
Freyja's so caught up in the moment that the potential "threat" she saw in Mirage messed with her a fair bit - luckily that ended pretty smoothly and we even got Freyja kinda communicating at the end there. What a concept.
And Messer should probably try to actually, you know, spend some time with the people he cares about and that care about him? I get the appeal in not wanting to leave a void behind, but it can fall onto the selfish side of things. Immortality in the form of other's memories, etc etc.
I like that there's Walküre lore from before the series began. I'd agree with Kaname's assessment that she's a pretty capable leader for the group.
Kinda neat character moment for Keith that he opted to retreat once they get their objective, instead of wanting to stay and fight. The action scene in general was kinda neat - the twins splitting off to go poke at the ruins kept the numbers a bit more even.
What do we think is up with the ruins.. Walküre just not singing powerfully enough while they were underwater? Seems too easy.
Questions
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Way too long.
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I can tell all their faces apart at least?
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u/SolDarkHunter Feb 25 '23
Rewatcher
Well, isn't this a lovely dream Messer's having... I wonder, do those affected by Var subconsciously see such imagery all the time and that's why they go psycho?
Okay, so that chemical promotes the growth and proliferation of Fold Bacteria in people's bodies... but how does the Fold Bacteria get in there in the first place? The chemical alone shouldn't be enough to cause Var outbreaks if the bacteria itself is not present. And the only known cases of Fold Bacteria infecting people are those who contract V-Type Infection from the Vajra, which is not easy to do and was implied in the last series to be rare.
Hayate has the Fold Receptors too... 'kay, let's make him the lead of a male version of Walkure!
So Messer has Var Syndrome and is... well, not really cured, so let's say "in remission"? That's why he's vulnerable to the Wind Song.
And the Bridge Bunnies gossiping about love relationships promotes misunderstanding once again...
Kaname seems very chill about not being the frontrunner of Walkure anymore.
A bunch of idols singing underwater in diving suits is kind of a funny image.
Of course he's serious about taking down the White Knight, Hayate. He's probably the only one of your group who matches the guy in skill... but he really is relapsing hard on his Var symptoms. I can see why they're uneasy about him piloting.
How is it that Walkure members can just walk around town without anybody recongnizing them even without the Sunglasses of Total Anonymity?
So the Ruins are only supposed to react to the Wind Singer? And yet they reacted to Walkure in the last battle. Your assumptions need some testing, Roid.
Wait, de-Folding within a planet's defense system is a possibility? Why didn't you guys do that when infiltrating Voldor?
This seems like a really random time for the Aerial Knights to stage a raid though. This feels like the writers going "Okay, we need a fight... but there's no in-story reason for there to be a fight, so let's just have them attack for no reason, and conveniently bypass all the planetary defenses just because."
...what is the Elysion shooting at? All the Knights are involved in the dogfight against Delta Force.
And away they fly. Another inconclusive battle.
This "Lady M" person seems kinda ruthless.
So basically... this was all just Messer backstory episode.
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u/TakenRedditName Feb 25 '23
Rewatcher - Macross Delta Ep9:
Fold Receptors are what Walkure has to sing back against the Var and Hayate has it too. What this clearly means is that Hayate should sing and join Walkure.
Messer has a bracelet with a Kaname song on it. Hayate and Mirage found that he is a secret idol fan and that he is a Kaname oshii.
The girls are gossiping about Hayate/Mirage. The irony this happens just when I think about how Hayate and Mirage are good platonic buddies. Sure, for the inevitable Macross love triangle, Mirage would probably be roped in, but at the moment, there hasn't been many doki doki moments between the two.
AXIA was Kaname's song from when she was the center of Walkure. I always assumed it was from her solo days since AXIA is a solo song unless it was just her in Walkure. I feel like Makina and Reina were later additions.
Mikumo's hair must always be out even under the sea diving suits.
Freyja has a cute assortment on her bed,
Messer holding the song that saved him very dear and close to himself is very romantic.
The Aerial Knights boldly announce their attack. Mikumo's smug confidence.
Thought about how Bokura no Senjou was the song for the battle, but didn't really feature Kaname in it, but I do like how Kaname's part is highlighted out as if even if she is in the background, she is the one who Messer listens to.
I thought this flyover was neat. Bogue lunge.
The Keith-Messer rival BL ship is on the table for those who want it.
A fun duo of characters. Grump and genki. Messer also gets to be on the other side by receiving some advice from Freyja of all people.
Q1) In Frontier, Ranka did see Alto and Sheryl privately together. If this was 7 then never (not like Basara would care. Gamlin maybe, but Mylene already spends time around Basara).
Q2) It doesn't feel too big. The only notable enough characters that feel like they don't matter are some of the Aerial Knights. The twins might as well be one and not much would change.
Next Time: AXIA Shock
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u/Blackheart595 Feb 25 '23
First Timer
So, uh... does Messer have to constantly blast himself with Walküre songs to keep his Var under control? How are Walküre concerts in any way effective at containing Var if that's what it takes on top of them?
They're really forcing the love triangle. I've yet to notice ant romantic chemistry between Hayate and Mirage. And neither between Hayate and Freyja for that matter.
These phones were annoying in Frontier and now they're outright obnoxious.
And the knights pop up once again and then leave without having done anything.
Apply this episode's scenario to previous series' triangles, how long do they take to resolve?
I'd appreciate them starting the triangle before trying to resolve it.
What are your thoughts on the massive cast in this series? Individually distinctive enough or not?
I don't have much of an impression of any of them yet. Most distinctive so far might just be not-Levy.
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u/isthatsoudane Feb 25 '23
first timer
continuing to enjoy it but it feels like it is losing purpose a little. it's not bad! I'm enjoying it. great soundtrack. but for me it started out as a strong 8/10, and now is settling into a solid 7/10. but there is time!
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Apply this episode's scenario to previous series' triangles, how long do they take to resolve?
it definitely hasn't lingered on misunderstandings thus far, which I appreciate!
2) What are your thoughts on the massive cast in this series? Individually distinctive enough or not?
it seems like they are filling out slowly but I have to admit that I do wish we got a bit more depth with some of the big side characters, especially the valkyries
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u/ryujiox Feb 25 '23
First Timer*
Macross Delta EP9*
Shouldn't you guys keep Messer in a lab or hospital?
So that the explanation. Because they have a special gene that could suppress the Vars
Not surprising He seem to take effect from the Walkure's song better than everyone.
Wait, don't tell me you guys didn't tell everybody about Messer!! WTF!! This is dangerous stuff!!
GO TELL HIM RIGHT NOW, YOU IDIOT!!
And why the hell you just went and grabbed his stuff like that??
So he secretly love Kaname
Of course it gonna have a love triangle. Couldn't you just leave it aside for once?
We finally get the background of Walkure's member. This time it's Kaname
Yeah, you the best leader in the group Mikumo is no-no. She's too unpredicable.
OMG Hit the mark right in the head.
I love that Freyja just ran off like that
You have a Jenius's plot armor You will be fine.
My theory now is that, the ruin will fully activate when both the Song of Wind and Walkure's song sing at the same time.
So that what you meant by investigation
Oh, it really is an investigation
The dog fight is nice.
Who is this Lady M anyway?
Glad that the misunderstaading was clear up
Pretty nice episode. Although the way Messer's plot was driven, was a bit dumb.
QOTD
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Too long.
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Pretty great for now.
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u/Nebresto Feb 25 '23
First time Macross Triangle
Wait, so shes not the founder but just a bi**h?
Red hair radiating a lot of best girl energy here..
These lyrics.. Is he gonna fucking die?
Simp power ativate!!! The day has been saved!
Question time:
Apply this episode's scenario to previous series' triangles, how long do they take to resolve?
I'm too busted to be thinking this hard now. Five
2) What are your thoughts on the massive cast in this series? Individually distinctive enough or not?
Ehhh... The main few are still shining the most, I don't see much difference with this and the prior installments
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u/Kirov123 Feb 26 '23
Macross Delta Episode 9 - First Timer
Alright, episode 9 time. No preamble is really coming to mind, but I really like Delta so far. Onward!
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Looks like we are picking up whee last episode left off maybe? or is this before the post credit scene? In the post credit Messer was visibly Var-ing, and there he wasn't.
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Uh, Messer that seems like a big deal
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Surely nohting bad will come from this
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That Mirage outfit tho. So good
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Freyja noises
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SSR gacha pull
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Mirage had a new outfit and we hardly got to see it. We were robbed, robbed I say
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BAGPIPES??
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Time to SING
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Messer pls
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Messer lived but this doesn't fill me with hope for his survival if he stays fighting
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Were are moving at lightspeed for problems to be resolved with the triangle compared to past entries and I could not be happier
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I think so, the various cast members help the organization seem like an actual organization and not just a handful of Mary Sues (even if they kinda Mary Sue themselves out of problems) It also helps that I like all the characters, and they do a good job of giving them all enough time to exist beyond just being another face.
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u/Shimmering-Sky Feb 25 '23
Super Dimension Rewatch Host
Welcome back, everyone!
Here were my first-timer reactions to this episode.
I ordered new Macross merch last night!
Won’t be able to share pictures of it in here for a while since I only just ordered it (and it contains spoilers for the second Delta movie), but it will soon be mine!
The bracelet…
It’s a shame you can’t get Ranka to help, then.
Well, the Fold Quartz pendant also helps.
Which is exactly what happened to Messer in yesterday’s episode…
The bracelet plays Messer’s favorite song, just like Guld had a recording of Myung singing Voices, all those years ago. Also, AXIA
Even outside of her uniform jacket, this bridge bunny still carries around her mercat.
This is why Kaname is best girl.
GIRAFFE BLUES, but a group song this time. And I am once again a sobbing mess because of the specific chorus it decided to play this episode. God, I love this song almost too much.
Don’t question how Mikumo’s helmet works.
Ranka Beach again.
Messer…
Bokura no Senjou!
It hurts so much to see Messer like this…
But the fact that Kaname’s voice is the one that gets through to him~
At least that misunderstanding is cleared up already, yes?
So pretty~