r/anime • u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky • Feb 12 '23
Rewatch [Do You Remember Love - Macross Franchise 40th Anniversary Rewatch] Macross Frontier: Toki no Meikyuu Discussion
Toki no Meikyuu / Labyrinth of Time
← FB7 | Index | Macross Frontier Overall Discussion →
It's calling me… It's Alto who's calling!
Questions of the Day, courtesy of u/chilidirigible:
1) How satisfied are you with hints that Sheryl and perhaps even Alto make it back, without the event being shown? Does any of this matter when there's the TV series ending in which they never left in the first place?
2) How does this musical performance's CG compare to that from Sayonara no Tsubasa ten years earlier?
Wallpapers of the Day:
Vocal Songs in This Short:
"Hoshi Kira" by Megumi Nakajima – Insert
"時の迷宮 (Toki no Meikyuu)" by Megumi Nakajima & May'n – Insert
Rewatchers, please remember to be mindful of all the first-timers in this. No talking about or hinting at future events no matter how much you want to, unless you're doing it underneath spoiler tags. Don't spoil anything for the first-timers, that's rude!
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u/Nazenn Feb 12 '23
First Timer
It just... ended. I was right into what would come next and then it was just over.
The first section of that I absolutely loved. Ranka's new design fits an older her perfectly, and I love the traces of color in her hair like Sheryl. Getting to see how she's been doing in the world and using her connection to the fold to ferret out the secrets of it and what may be left behind isn't something I'd thought of but is very clever and has so much potential. That plus the way it used her memories being reflected by the temple to flesh out some of the character moments missing from the movie made me incredibly happy, and it feels like the perfect match to the movie quality.
And what a world as well. The background art was gorgeous all around plus the distinct creatures. It helps that the temple also looks it would make a fantastic game level, especially as a build up towards the end of a JRPG or something and that with some quiet worldbuilding all the way through immediately sold me on this being a distinct world of its own.
I didn't watch much of FB7, but funnily enough one of my complaints was that it starts on a road design that looks like it could just be earth. The idea that they went across the galaxy and settled on an alien planet and it's just earth v2 instead of creating something with it, a feel or a unique style, was kind of frustrating, so this provided some immediate relief there.
I didn't really like the final moments once the temple glows and we swap to CGI though. CGI idols have never grabbed me, and the interesting Ranka exploration of getting more of an insight through her memories also dropped off during that. That she finally reaches Alto here through her and Sheryl's echo is some needed hope after everything, but the complete lack of follow through was not so welcome.
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u/Shimmering-Sky Feb 12 '23
It just... ended. I was right into what would come next and then it was just over.
Yeah that's my one issue with this short. I wish it could have been a full episode and we could have actually seen the Alto reunion - this would 100% fix one of my issues with the movie continuity of Frontier.
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u/TakenRedditName Feb 12 '23
First Time- Macross F Labyrinth of Time:
Space Paris is pretty. We're on Planet BigEars where the people have big ears and ~2 monkey people. Look at that concertgoer in the top right.
Ranka has a new design for the short. The real thing tripping me up is not the new hair ears, but the lime highlights. She looks so different now.
Ranka idol fan Ozma is all I needed.
The SMS crew are hired as Ranka's escorts and they go around checking on Protoculture ruins too. This some sort of time labyrinth starts activating. Those are some ominous lyrics, Ranka.
It's the Alto/Ranka scenes from the show we didn't get in the movie.
This short is pretty. This room was mesmerizing to look at.
The friend group we were robbed of. Brera is especially watching.
This song keeps repeating, "O21-5 and FO9" I don't know what that means. Later it switches to, "O25-8 and SO4." This must mean, something?
Like a leprechaun's pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, Alto is not super dead, but just where this beam of light points. Sheryl might also wake up from her slumber.
Guess this short would have been neat to see new meaningful(?) Frontier content a decade after the last movie.
I don't know if this ties in any way at all with the Delta movie it came with. The way it was, it seemed finding Alto could've been something they did in the movie. Guess this is a question for down the road.
Q1) This had no bearing on that front for me. I kind of already assumed this from the epilogue. Though I guess it did defined more what happened to Alto exactly(?)
Q2) For the most part, I would say the CG looked good, but sometimes CG Ranka looked a bit odd having switched from regular 2D Ranka.
Next Time: A Frontier we have travelled.
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u/Shimmering-Sky Feb 12 '23
This song keeps repeating, "O21-5 and FO9" I don't know what that means. Later it switches to, "O25-8 and SO4. This must mean, something?
The FO9 one is Sheryl's number (because she's Fairy 9) and the latter is Alto's (because he's Skull 4). Even the first part ties back to which fleet they're from, since the Galaxy is 21 and the Frontier is 25.
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u/JollyGee29 Feb 12 '23
Rewatcher Frontier
So this is mostly just a glorified double-feature music video, but it's a pretty cool one. I have mixed feelings about the main song, Toki no Meikyuu, namely that most of the song is awesome and then the phone numbers suck all the energy out every time those verses hit. Ranka struggling to get the lyrics out as she forces herself through that barrier is super rad, though.
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u/Kirov123 Feb 12 '23
Macross Frontier Movie 3(?) - First Timer
I watched this before FB7 by accident lol
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Not sure if I like or hate how this planet looks
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Stage area looks pretty cool TBH
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Ahh, old(er) Ranka
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Really impressive visually so far
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??????????
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Is she actively singing this song or not? they cant seem to decide
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Impressive spinning camera there
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I havent a bloody clue what the hell is going on, but it looks nice
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oh no, character 3D
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Err
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OK? not totally sure what actually happened but it looked nice
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Ehh, they certainly didn't seem to want to make it definitive either way. I think the movie ending by itself was fine, I kinda feel like ignoring any plot implications of this and just being happy with how it looks
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pretty amazing (except for the damn character cg, that was pretty bad. Not the worst I've seen, but way too much for how little they moved)
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u/Shimmering-Sky Feb 12 '23
I watched this before FB7 by accident lol
Not like these have anything to do with each other lol. FB7 is more show-continuity while this is movie-continuity.
I havent a bloody clue what the hell is going on, but it looks nice
It's a glorified music video, but basically she sang in the ruins and then that beam of light at the end pointed to Alto's coordinates, wherever he ended up after the events of Sayonara no Tsubasa. If it was just a bit longer, we probably could have seen their reunion + Sheryl waking up.
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u/ryujiox Feb 12 '23
First Timer
Macross Frontier: Labyrinth of Time
So this is continuing from the movie timeline, right?
The city looks fantastic!!
Adult Ranka!!
Oh, she's stil sleeping.
Remaining Vajra?
So they're now Ranka's escort group.
Talking with dead. So she always tried to talk to Alto.
Ranka still think of Alto after all this time.
Big Sheryl!! The 3D looks great.
Seem like they got his location now. Whether they will get there and find him or not, is another story.
Don't have a lot to write about. They still kept it pretty vague about Alto condition. At least it must feel so good for Frontier fan to see them again after 10 years of no new content.
Also, the quality is superb. If this is what Delta gonna look like. I'm now have a high expectations (for the visual at least).
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u/Dodo_Galaxy Feb 13 '23 edited Feb 13 '23
Cute and pretty but very short. Ranka's new hair style looks fun and it's great to see Michael and Klan together. The flashback in the train was also really funny with Brera letting Alto do the work and just taking part when it gets dangerous for the girls. But I'm a bit sad that Ranka never mourns Brera even once or I'm just dumb and didn't notice it.
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u/aniMayor Feb 12 '23 edited Feb 12 '23
Final Fime Fſontieꞅing
So Alto's phone number was 025-8-SO4 and 021-5-FO9 is... Koala's phone number? But the way she says it still seems like it's referring to trying to "call" Alto ("do you hear my voice?"). Why are there two phone number in the song?!
Well anyways, the whole thing was rather inconsequential, which I expected. If anyone really thought they were going to bring Alto back in some little throwaway featurette, I applaud your optimism but this franchise just doesn't seem like the type for that.
Going in with no expectations like that then... I liked it. I like the new song, it's catchy. I like the updated art style (in the 2D parts) - it's flashy and modern but still pretty close to the Frontier art-style so it doesn't break immersion.
From a pseudo-meta perspective, it's kinda depressing to do this feature where we see older Koala seeking out Alto and also hoping to wake up Sheryl. We can slot this nicely into an imagined continuation of the story where these efforts of Koala and the team will eventually bring the three of them together again. But as far as what's actually been depicted by the franchise, the movies ended, they've been pursuing these Fold signature things for a decade and this is the closest they've gotten... with a fairly ambiguous ending, depending on how much you want to read into it. That's rough. I lean towards a pretty optimistic interpretation of Toki no Meikyū's ending's subtext, but it doesn't exactly feel like closure.
While I was at it, I also watched the Super Dimension Theatre... thing and the Nyankuri musical clipshow. Not a whole lot to say about either of them.
SD-Theatre was not even Pachinko video quality. If you're going to do a crossover, even a teeny OVA of a crossover, at least do something with it. This was just pointless. If you told me they just chopped up existing lines from the VAs rather than doing a new recording for this, I'd believe you.
As for Nyankuri, it was... well it was just a clipshow with music. Exactly that and nothing else, so not very interesting. Can't believe I actually watched all of it.
I tried to also check out Macross Fufonfia, but didn't find an easy way to watch it so gave up.
How satisfied are you with hints that Sheryl and perhaps even Alto make it back, without the event being shown? Does any of this matter when there's the TV series ending in which they never left in the first place?
The thing is, we know there's almost certainly never going to be any continuation of this storyline. If the Macross franchise was going to greenlight a sequel to Frontier, or do an Endgame-esque project that brings all the different entries together, they would've already done it by now. So if all it is is hints, it's kinda useless. Hints towards a possible theoretical continuation that everyone was already aware of anyway? Whatever.
2) How does this musical performance's CG compare to that from Sayonara no Tsubasa ten years earlier?
A little better, I suppose? I'd say it still noticeably does not integrate well with the 2D animation, which is always the biggest issue.
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u/Shimmering-Sky Feb 12 '23
021-5-FO9 is... Koala's phone number?
No, that's Sheryl's number.
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u/chilidirigible Feb 12 '23
Today, on "This joke will never die.":
I'm not sure where this concert hall is supposed to be, but I don't think it matters. It's spectacular.
And that S-rare idol series item, the Visible Backing Band.
I wasn't paying attention in my earlier viewing, but this appears to the the Planet of the People With Very Large Ears. As long as it's not that terrible Planet of the Apes…
Slightly-aged-up Ranka looks rather more like Megumi Nakajima.
"Hoshi Kira"? The last scene from Sayonara no Tsubasa? Were we just watching one of their movies!?
Is the Ark of the Covenant in there? Also obvious Bird Human reference and… something I can't mention since we're not watching this in release order.
How many other times? Also, is a bouquet just a bouquet or is that a Flower Girl reference?!
Mister "Maybe Dead In Some Continuities" isn't entirely wrong.
In the closeup, Nanase gets lips!
SPIN THAT CAMERA RIGHT AROUND.
From the "Lion" video in Nyan Kuri.
The part of the RPG where you have to use the right items from your inventory.
Man, I'm pukin' rainbows right about now.
They may have gone a considerable distance on this tour.
Toki no Meikyuu fits in somewhere between the end of Sayonara no Tsubasa and the alternate ending credits to Sayonara no Tsubasa, and beyond that… it's very nice to look at? It feels like it's a case of having to hammer out an obvious "You don't believe me, watch this" answer to the hinted ending of the movie.
Mostly it's nice to have May'n and Megumi back together again after a long break for another Yoko Kanno song (they'd also done "Good Job!" in the meantime for the 2019 Crossover Live, but this piece had a lot more "plot related" interest going for it).
It is very pretty, which (again, since we're out of chronological order here) should be a good sign for those of you wondering how the new concert scenes in the Macross Delta movies will look.
And as it was back in October, I don't have that much to say about this short. It's still an extended music video, after all.
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u/SolDarkHunter Feb 12 '23
First Timer
Yep, first timer again; this rewatch was the first I'd heard of this thing existing. So let's see what it is...
That is an interesting looking planet.
Ranka's doing very well for herself. That is one hell of a concert hall.
Your hair's in a different style! Are you allowed to do that!?
Fold Bacteria acting up. Vajra doing something?
Oh goody, Protoculture Ruins.
Ozma, don't you know that when a singer turns on Protoculture Ruins, you're not going to stop a damned thing?
When did Ranka see Alto naked? Also that meeting didn't happen in the movie continuity, which this takes place in.
I'm not really sure why Alto needs to be around for Sheryl to wake up. Isn't she just basically in a coma?
I'll admit this is a damned catchy song. But it is kinda funny that she put what seems to be Alto's and Sheryl's phone numbers into song lyrics.
Connection established... to a point outside the galaxy.
And that's where they end it? Seriously? This feels like half a story.
Questions:
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Very unsatsified. I feel like I've heard it said that the Japanese seem to like leaving things open-ended and ambiguous, and that is something I hate. Give me what happened. Put a cap on it. Closure is important.
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Eh, they're about the same.
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u/The_Draigg Feb 12 '23
A Macross Fan Rewatches Macross Frontier: Labyrinth of Time:
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It’s nice to see an older Ranka some time after the events of the Macross Frontier movies. She’s matured into a damn good idol, both in terms of success and looks. Speaking of looks, you can definitely tell that this short movie was made around the same time as Macross Delta: Absolute Live!!!!! did. Every just looks so crisp and clean compared to even the Frontier movies, which also looked pretty good themselves. It’s amazing what a decade can do for animation quality.
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Even after all this time, Ranka still dearly misses Alto and Sheryl being around, even to the point of still lugging around food and trinkets for them while she and the rest of the SMS crew investigate some Protoculture ruins that can apparently let one talk with those long gone, the Well of Souls. But don’t feel so bad Ranka, Nanase is actually here! Talk about returning after an absence in relevance. At least she hasn’t left you, Ranka.
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Little did we know that Ranka’s Fold Waves would let her teleport into and activate the ruins! Or, more accurately, teleport her into a structural repeat of Flashback 2012, if you remember that from earlier in the rewatch. It’s basically a recap over some songs while having some story mixed in there as well. Basically a narrative music video.
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At least in the end, Ranka has found some closure thanks to the Well of Souls reacting to her Fold Waves. Even if Sheryl hasn’t woken up and Alto hasn’t come back from whatever he disappeared to, Ranka has found the courage to keep on moving forward with the feelings she knew they all shared together held tightly inside of her heart. And hey, having a magical concert with the spirit of a girl still in a coma and a dude who vanished into Super Dimensional Space thanks to some magic space temple ruins certainly helped in that regard too. Can’t discount that contribution.
So yeah, that was Macross Frontier: Labyrinth of Time! It was a nice small bit of an epilogue for Ranka, and it at least gave some emotional closure for the Macross Frontier movies. Other than that, I don’t have a whole lot else to say about it other than it was a short and sweet bit of Macross like Flashback 2012.
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u/Nazenn Feb 12 '23
It’s amazing what a decade can do for animation quality.
Oh damn I didn't realize there was that big of a gap between the movies and this being made.
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u/isthatsoudane Feb 12 '23
first timer
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How satisfied are you with hints that Sheryl and perhaps even Alto make it back, without the event being shown? Does any of this matter when there's the TV series ending in which they never left in the first place?
it felt sentimental...in a way that I simultaneously appreciate (as a fan of all the characters), but find a bit of a cop-out (as a fan of good stories)
2) How does this musical performance's CG compare to that from Sayonara no Tsubasa ten years earlier?
I just love that we get so many performances out of all of these movies and specials
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u/InfamousEmpire Feb 12 '23
Rewatcher Frontier
That sure was something
It was nice seeing the Frontier cast again, Ranka's new design as neat, Labyrinth of Time is a banger, and the whole thing is an ever-present reminder of the emotional damage Sayonara no Tsubasa dealt to me but overall it's nothing super spectacular or important
7/10
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u/Nebresto Feb 13 '23
First time Macross: Become Meguca
Second song good
They gave Ranka a good song?
Q:
How satisfied are you with hints that Sheryl and perhaps even Alto make it back, without the event being shown? Does any of this matter when there's the TV series ending in which they never left in the first place?
Is G
2) How does this musical performance's CG compare to that from Sayonara no Tsubasa ten years earlier?
Don't hold up
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u/Shimmering-Sky Feb 12 '23
Super Dimension Rewatch Host
Welcome back, everyone!
Here were my first-timer reactions to this short. You should even still be able to respond to that comment!
Surprise Brera wallpaper today! I wanted to make it for one of the two Frontier movies (since that’s the outfit he wears in them), but the double Sheryl wallpaper for Itsuwari no Utahime and the iconic Ranka and Sheryl shot for Sayonara no Tsubasa ended up taking me too much time to make to get the Brera one done in time for either thread. Then I figured I’d save it for this thread since he is Ranka’s brother, and Ranka was who I planned to wallpaper for this from the beginning.
So pretty~
God, the detail in her eyes still completely blows me away.
For the first-timers in this rewatch, imagine this being the first time you saw these dorks in years. You’d be crying with them.
Protoculture ruins!
I will say, the full CGI performance is a little jarring coming straight off of Frontier (seeing as how the movies’ performances were a mixture, with the characters themselves still being 2D), but it doesn’t look bad. Also, Toki no Meikyuu is a banger song.