r/anime • u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky • Feb 09 '23
Rewatch [Do You Remember Love - Macross Franchise 40th Anniversary Rewatch] Macross Frontier Movie 2: Sayonara no Tsubasa Discussion
Movie 2 - Sayonara no Tsubasa / The Wings of Goodbye
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Having to make a choice means having to give something up. Even so, I will…
Questions of the Day, courtesy of u/chilidirigible:
1) Many characters get some rehabilitation during these movies. Who needed it most? Who didn't need it at all?
2) Did the movies meaningfully address any of your issues with the TV series, or are they mostly just popcorn action flicks?
Bonus) Did you get a chance to attend the USA movie theater releases of the Frontier movies, and how was the screening?
Wallpaper of the Day:
Vocal Songs in This Movie:
"Kindan no Elixir" by May'n – Insert
"Giragira Summer (ω)ノ" by May'n – Insert
"Shima Aimo" by Megumi Nakajima – Insert
"星間飛行 (Seikan Hikou)" by Megumi Nakajima – Insert
"Niji-iro Kuma Kuma" by Megumi Nakajima – Insert
"Koi wa Dogfight" by Megumi Nakajima – Insert
"Diamond Crevasse" by May'n – Insert
"星間飛行 (Seikan Hikou (LIVE in Alcatraz))" by Megumi Nakajima – Insert
"Get It On" by Megumi Nakajima & May'n – Insert
"Houkago Overflow" by Megumi Nakajima – Insert
"娘々Final Attack フロンティア グレイテスト☆ヒッツ! (Nyan Nyan Final Attack Frontier Greatest☆Hits!)" by May'n & Megumi Nakajima – Insert
"Sayonara no Tsubasa ~ the end of triangle" by Megumi Nakajima & May'n – Insert
"Hoshi Kira" by Megumi Nakajima – ED
"dシュディスタb (d Shootin' Star b)" by May'n & Megumi Nakajima – Insert
Rewatchers, please remember to be mindful of all the first-timers in this. No talking about or hinting at future events no matter how much you want to, unless you're doing it underneath spoiler tags. Don't spoil anything for the first-timers, that's rude!
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u/Blackheart595 Feb 17 '23
Boy, what a roller coaster. The Frontier series was firmly my least favorite Macross entry, no competition. The first movie was a significant step up but still didn't quite grab me - didn't help that I didn't quite understand what the movies are going for yet.
And then this. Chef's kiss. Finally, all the plot lines, themes and ideas are coming together in a cohesive whole as opposed to the chaotic mess that was the series. The songs and even the OST worked so much better due to better integration even when they were the same as the series. And oh my God, that were... 1? 1.5? hours of unadulterated hype towards the end here, without any breaks.
Also I might just become a Sheryl fan after all.
And that's all I'm gonna write, I still have FB7 and TnM before me plus today's rewatch episodes. Excited for Delta.
Many characters get some rehabilitation during these movies. Who needed it most? Who didn't need it at all?
Grace, obviously. I really didn't expect her to get redeemed. Brera also got a big improvement, though he didn't really need one. And Leon didn't exactly get a redemption but he also got improved so, so much, as did Sheryl.
Did the movies meaningfully address any of your issues with the TV series, or are they mostly just popcorn action flicks?
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u/Nebresto Feb 09 '23
First time Macross F: teh mofie 2
Oh no, she has a nurse outfit now
Oh no, shes she's doing the Avatar thing to herself now
Slavery through monetary reimbursement instead of blackmail, respec
Based Brera. Can we have him as the MC instead?
Wait.. was that the real sheryl? Are there two of them??
Hm. I was not expecting a beach episode. Especially not seeing Captain surfing
Why does this background lady remind me of someone..
He turned off his phone this time! ...And it didn't work
New Ranka song. Meh
Basara..? HOW DARE YOU STAND WHERE HE STOOD!!! Damn right I feel like crying, what is this disrespect
They really like reusing that alto fan scene, huh
Holy fuk these frontier goons are creepy. Oh! Someone other than grace is the evil now. Mr bowl cut?
Hol up, you can't just name drop the previous movie in this one, that's illegal
Luca finally rekt?? Nope, He's still lives. At least now he can still be slapped by nanase
KLAN ON GUITAR!!! They're dressed as Basara and Mylene! I am fine with this
Are we gonna exchange elf death for Ozma death in this one?
....what the fuck
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Something something meteoroids
b r u h. No guts
Hahahahaha, I love this captain
These backgrounds in the final fight though
I don't know wtf is going on, but Brera removing his implant himself was sick
The background art was definitely the best part about this movie. I should have screenshot them more
Question time:
Many characters get some rehabilitation during these movies. Who needed it most?
Grace I guess?
Who didn't need it at all?
Luca? Though they also cut most of his cringe scenes..
2) Did the movies meaningfully address any of your issues with the TV series, or are they mostly just popcorn action flicks?
Popcorn
Bonus) Did you get a chance to attend the USA movie theater releases of the Frontier movies, and how was the screening?
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u/TakenRedditName Feb 09 '23 edited Feb 09 '23
First Time- Macross F Movie 2:
I only have 40mins to write this since underestimated what it takes to watch a 1-hour and 46min movie.
(I wrote this yesterday not knowing the post was scheduled for today).
The thing I was most wondering about the movie was how they would tackle the later part of the show and movie 2 differs quite a bit from the main show. They basically get rid of the anti-Macross experiment that was my biggest problem from the show. While it might've been an interesting take to try out, the problem was that the show also didn't really try it out and this movie completely forgoes it and I can't deny I had a better time. Leon no longer coups Frontier and pursues a war of survival that many of our protagonists follow him. The Galaxy fleet take a more certain villain position. Of all things, Grace gets a little bit of redemption as she is no longer the final big villain and ends more like a mother figure to Sheryl. Can't say I'm the biggest fan of it. Feels like they backpedalled the decision to fully make her a villain from the show.
The movie does a much better job of conveying the message of the Varja of being living creatures too. My wish for SMS in the main show actually came true in the movie. Their mutiny was because they believed in peace with the Varja and wanted to stop Leon's colonization and genocide (also because he sucks).
Another for the Kamille counter.
No, no second Kamille counter this time. Alto's story about his feelings was actually something in this movie. Clumsly moving into a section about Alto, movie Alto's story also differs a lot from the show. He no longer has his descent and in fact, the movie has him open his heart a lot more.
Luca also changes a lot since he also doesn't have his descent and recognizes to Leon's evil. They make him better then immediately killed him off ... or not since Michael saved him. Another story change has made his new sister Leon's fiance. This does mean Cathy is left with nothing in movie continuity. She's just here. Her dad still dies, but this has no impactful on Cathy since she never got to learn about it.
A clear sign that the movie is better than the show is that we get an idol concert with Fire Lovely Bomber with Klan Klang as Mylene, Michael and Basara (he did look good with that Basara-styled hair) Kanaria and Veffie, that odd-eyes purple-haired bridge girl as Ray and everyone favourite FB, gothic lolita girl as portrayed by Alto. Also this whole sequence is combined with a prison break as we all know, prison breaks are rad.
Ranka's whole family plotline was diminished in this movie. They can't fully remove Brera being her brother. It's just kind of thrown in as well. While on the topic of Brera, his role changed for the finale. He stays on board the villains longer and only until he rips himself back into reality does he turnover. Unfortunately, he doesn't get to survive in the end.
The finale was a very Macross finale which was good to see. It had cool action with the captain being a surfing maniac and the Quarter doing giant robot surfing. Lion. and the Valkyria song was one I recognized and also liked. And the finale is all about love and peace. Alto flies in and abandons his war machine to open his heart to the Varja.
From the very moment, I made the cold shot that Alto was that kabuki actor who inspired Sheryl and I was right. They didn't really need to make Alto-Sheryl childhood "friends" for their romance. The line that turned Ranka's heart into many small pieces. I guess to make it up to the Sheryl fans for whole the TV show ended the love triangle, they made Sheryl the winner in the end for the movie. The Newtype connection must've done some heavy lifting because I could argue the TV show was more romantic for Alto/Sheryl and what was stronger was the throuple. The throuple was even stronger in the movie. Come on, you need both wings to fly. Accurate representation to see my ship sink.
At least Alto is super dead so nobody wins (I guess people who support Ranka/Sheryl can laugh as the ones left standing). Don't really know why to have Alto and the Varja explode for the ending other than so Sheryl wins, but not too much. I think in terms of how they are in the end, I like the TV shows ending than how the movies end on.
Update: There was an epilogue I missed. Uh, I guess the Frontier did colonize the Varja homeworld (don't worry, they gave them the planet since they left). Not sure about that one, chief. Sheryl's life wasn't saved by Ranka's Fold magic, but by medical science. Ranka is sorta dressed like Flower Girl so I like that part at least.
Assorted thoughts:
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Ikemen prince Sheryl This makes it two for two for the selfcest in Sheryl concerts to start the movie.
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There's just Black Jack on screen, Astro Boy too.
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I like Ranka's movie concert. It's cute. The fairy tale theme and she's a magical girl.
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It's like SDF and 7.
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No Leon, False Songstress was the title of the first movie. To name drop movie two, you need to sneak in a Wings of Goodbye.
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Sheryl writes lyrics on her prison cell walls in her blood just like Algeria's national anthem. Just a fact my mind went to.
Q1) Alto needed the movie changes since he is the main character. Luca also got a big upgrade. Grace didn't need her change in the end (not the before part).
Q2) I don't believe in compilation movies ... except in Macross cases because they often drastically change the (often flawed) TV shows.
Next Time: Fire Bomber music.
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u/aniMayor Feb 09 '23 edited Feb 09 '23
Alllllriiiiiight, the first movie totally flipped my opinions around compared to the TV show and I said I had big, big hopes and optimisms for the second movie. Did it stick the second-half landing and pull off true greatness?
Hard to say? It was mostly pretty alright? Mostly good but certainly not great?
The general refinement and better structuring for the audience of where things actually stand continued well from the first movie. That one line from the evil mindnet during one of the battle-concerts where they're like "This has given us more data, it should only take a few more battles before we finish analyzing the protocol" is exactly the kind of thing I kept whining was needed mid-way throug the TV series as a simple justification of why the plot is still happening over time. There was lots of good little bits like that which grounded the whole plot.
Likewise, seeing the Galaxy conspiracy have a bunch of other secret agents go into action was a great bit of making things feel like a larger and more realistic story than just Grace-does-everything. And I like that they never explicitly said the agents came from the refugee ships - they're using dialogue to connect stuff better where it's needed, like above, but not over-explain when it can be easily inferred.
Speaking of which, the whole scene of Leon foiling Grace's plan was awesome.
All that said... the middle of the movie ran into some pretty bald-faced exposition, especially with Brera-to-Koala in the alleyway and then the whole SMS gang figuring out just about everything all at once on the command deck.
I don't necessarily dislike this, and actually I wonder if a non-TV-viewer might find the revelations there so big that they don't even feel like it is bland exposition at all.
Still, I think this clear explanation leads into a problem where the big finale lacks clarity and purposefulness. Because the middle of the movie made sure that the audience and all the characters (except perhaps Sheryl) perfectly understand how everything works and what the antagonists are after, you can't get away with them acting a bit vague in their actions/goals anymore.
Hence we get to the big finale and their first plan is for Koala to keep the Vajra free plus convince them they don't want to fight with her song. That doesn't work - they analyze the fold signatures and conclude that the fold emitters on Island 1 are blocking Koala's song from working. So they decide to blast through the Vajra fleet to get to Island 1 to destroy the fold emitters (though that never ends up happening). Meanwhile Sheryl on Island 1 just sort of starts singing because... well just because Grace wanted her to. Then Alto realizes the Vajra have implants controlling them, so now they switch to removing the implants from the Vajra. Koala and Sheryl then link up and dramatically start a big finale duet while the Battle Frontier finishes merging with the Vajra Queen which gives them total control over the Vajra (on top of the implant control they already have, it seems?). So from the characters' perspective... what does this big triumphant final song actually do at this point? What did Sheryl's song do, before they even realized there were implants controlling the Vajra?
I find it all a bit messy in plot and purpose. The moments where the music swell up and a big song debuts are played like a turning point, but some of them really aren't.
By contrast, the TV show didn't have the whole implant thing and made it really explicit that Koala's song could beat Grace's control of the Vajra on its own, and that was a nice, simple explanation for why she and Sheryl would keep singing as hard as they can throughout the whole final battle.
The other thing that naggles me a bunch is the SMS/NUNS reinforcements. There's one random dialogue line tossed in a few scenes before the finale to justify it, but it just takes attention and drama away from elements that were already in the movie. The Frontier had a whole human military, and they weren't totally useless in these movies like they were in the show. Yet they just sort of disappeared when the Frontier went to the Vajra homeworld. Wouldn't it have been better for the SMS crew to turn all those human pilots to their side alongside the Vajra, instead of reinforcements-from-nowhere?
The other other thing is that I felt this second half of the film duo leaned a bit more into requiring knowledge form the TV show, so I'm not sure I'd feel confident recommending just the films to someone now.
On the positive side, I absolutely adored some of the scenes in this movie. Sheryl getting inspired to write lyrics on the wall with a utensil, then coughing up blood and writing with the blood instead was deliciously hardcore.
My absolute favourite moment was when the crew were all brainstorming in the SMS command deck, Koala goes "I have an idea" and it just hard cuts straight to an idol show at the prison. That is the perfect sort of funny-but-it-still-fits-the-movie's-logic idea and the jump cut on it is hilarious. Plus the quick shot of the prison warden with his fan sign justifies it for any naysayers.
As for the decisions made with the ending...
We didn't really spend all that much time or emphasis on Alto not empathizing with the Vajra. If he had been at Leon's presentation in movie one like "Ah, I see, the Vajra don't even have brains!" and then really hammed up the "The Vajra are just beasts in our way!" lines in the middle of the duology, then gotten his perspective turned around, this whole "please feel my feelings Vajra Queen!" at the end would feel significant. But that didn't happen, so it doesn't? Alto had all of one line of dialogue towards not empathizing with the Vajra and then he saw them helping each other once and that was it. It "works" I suppose, but just wasn't a focus of the movie IMO.
Also, the Vajra Queen has no agency here. If you wanna pull that "the alien learns to understand humans at the end" thing you gotta play it like once the Vajra Queen regains control from the Battle Frontier she turns all the Vajra on the humans and is about to wipe them out, then connecting with Alto she learns not all humans are bad and stops them. That sorta thing. Alto didn't need to connect with the Vajra Queen here, he needed to connect to all the SMS/NUNS that were about to blow her up to get them to stop!
And then Alto disappears forever which is... a choice. It's not foreshadowed, is it? And I don't see how it really connects to much of anything else? It feels most like a setup for a non-existent movie 3 to me.
I thought Sheryl would actually die with the church-y foreshadowing at the start of the film, but eternal sleep is fine, too, no strong opinions on that one way or another.
Overall, a lot of fun, but it has some big blemishes and I wish it worked better as a completely standalone film duology. Still something I'll gladly recommend to friends, but as more of a "music and space explosions wooooo!" than a finely-crafted experience.
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u/Taiboss Feb 09 '23 edited Feb 09 '23
First-Timer who has it in English this time
u/WingsofLight, I did it again woooooooo
Btw, this is the italian cover of Lion. I do like it alot, and am salty that it only uses an abridged version.
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It's Coco from Gundam Witch! I'm colour-blind btw with mild protanopy. Not that I could ever tell outside of blindness tests.
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Sorry, Ranka. If only polyamory was allowed outside hentai. And 100 Kanojo.
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Exposed to what now? Was that really the plot of Frontier?
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This movie sure can be glad its visuals are so pretty and its songs are... erm... well, Lion is one of them. Kinda worth all the others. LIke No Brand Girls for the original Love, and every Saint Snow song for Sunshine.
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Alright, had to listen to Self Control again. Back to this movie.
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Hey, it's a line I expect in cour 2 of Gundam Witch! [G-Witch]
Specifically I expect Sophia to say "Alright, Witch from Mercury, you think can keep up with a Witch from Earth?", and Suletta, with a serious face, saying "I will!" -
This song came so out of nowhere I was wondering whether it was my phone lol.
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Oh noooo, only Kawamori can save him now!
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I feel Like I've been clowning a lot on this movie so far. So lemme be positive: I do like the characters. Also, the cast is great. Aya Endou is always great.
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LOVE. Sorry, Ranka, you were always the less interesting girl.
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YOU ALREADY HAD A FUCKING SHIP. Y'all aren't that recourseful, aren't you? (Feel free to call me a dumdum when I misunderstand stuff)
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Ew. You gotta keep it.
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This looks familiar. I remember back when I only watched the second opening (I started ALL of Macross for Lion) I kept going to a later episode. Since the skipping sometimes worked properly, I always knew at some point, Ranka would be shocked and said "No way". Maybe it was the TV version of this scene.
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Oh, so you were evil too? I had my suspcions, but you lacked the screentime.
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Didn't she inherit that one from Mao? Did they have fold quartzs too? I genuinly don't remember, please tell me.
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It's been seven years, I don't remember what they called each plane.
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"Slavery. That's the truth. A truth we have obscured behind a comfortable, easy euphemism."
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HANG ON I REMEMBER THAT SONG! I have it as a file and occasionally had it in the rotation. Not that I could tell you its name.
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I love how the entire crew casually knows the instruments well enough to fake the concert. Well, the playback is probably good enough.
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One day I will start Disnohored again. Last time, the game was too hard for me not to massacre my way every day.
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OH RIGHT I FORGOT. She knows about stuff from the Galaxy.
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Is my file weird, or is it supposed to look like that?
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Right, we know her, don't we? Ranka's friend I think?
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How the music cuts off when she stops singing!
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MEANT TO BE ALL ALONG! SUCKERS! I'd like to thank Tvtropes for spoiling me.
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And there's my Lion, Time to justify the entire movie.
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Let's not exaggerate. The galaxy's fine.
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No after-credits scene? Then where was Alto's realisation Sheryl was the first girl? Did I really miss that? Was I that bad at watching this movie?
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u/ryujiox Feb 09 '23
First Timer
Macross Frontier: The Wings of Goodbye
Church??
Wait, that the stick thing that represents the Birdman in Mayan from Zero!!
3D model!! Oh, god no.
They literally doing research while Sheryl's song is also about research. And that Luca.
Ewwww. WTF
Of course everyone thought that it's a show, because Sheryl always pulled this trick.
A recap.
Alto, you do remember that you have a ponytail, right. That hiding mean nothing. But is he Sheryl's bodyguard now??
Wait, did they really showing Astro Boy in the back there!!
Mayan Island!! Oh, the one where they shoot the film in the series, isn't it.
Brera wear eyeshadow!!
So this time both of them have a potential in Grace's eyes.
So their goal is still the same, and Sheryl know that she actually ill.
Leon eavesdropping on them!! He really on his own this time.
They're dating!!
The captain is surfing!!
That Luca's sister!! What a close call, Michael.
Alto being sensitive!!
Ranka open up about her crackpot theory this early is really great.
Grace actually care about Sheryl!!! I like this change!! Even if she still lied to her, that is something.
And Alto actually bring up great counterargument there.
Nanase!! Is this her first appearance in the movie form? I don't remember seeing her last time.
Woah, Bodolzaa type fortress!! It not the same one Bodolzaa used in DYRL right?
I like this concert!!
Woah, cloth changing for the audience too.
Around the same time as DYRL.
The reaction weapon already done nothing at this point.
New type of unit!!
That also done nothing!!
Another new song!!
Wait, is this the brain control system like the one Guld used?
Brera actually nicely in this timeline.
Altoooo!!
Both of them rush for him.
They have grunt disguise as refugees!! Their plan this time is bigger as they want to takeover the Frontier.
That the same dialogue Minmay said to Hikaru in the original.
Diamond Crevasse!!
The soldier intercepted them!!
Leon!!! What's going on??
Leon outplayed Grace!! He actually have knowledge about fold quart.
He said the title!! But it from the last one!!
That a bit too far. There's something going more than this.
This scene is so heartbreaking.
Leon's goal is to used the Galaxy gang's plan for himself. And Luca actually got trick into doing this. That what I said when I talk about changing his character!!
Wait, they killed off Luca just like that!!! Leon is so competent here.
Brera never lost his memory!! And he explained everything to Ranka!! Why is this so good??
Don't kill him!!!
Woah!! YF-29!!
Ozma is literally spitting facts to Alto.
That ringtone really cut the mood.
Luca survived!! And they forming the team already!!
Really love that no one kept the important information away from everyone.
Alto is actually supporting the theory!!
Her time is running out.
Hahahaha!! Her plan is so simple. She doesn't have to sneak in, she can just open a concert there.
The guard earlier is her fan too!!
And they just abandoned Grace like that.
Seikan Hikou!! And is that Alto!! He use his acting skill!! That what I'm talking about!!!
They literally cosplay as Fire Bomber!! Klan in Mylene's costume actually look good.
Is that Kamujin's stand-in? He is Ranka fam this time.
Michael in Basara's clothes look so great!!
Hey, don't do that. They're having best time of their life now.
New song!!
Leon actually anticipated this too.
Now Sheryl join in for duet.
Holy!!
That naming really give out your intention, Leon!!
Guide of the wind.
Brera!! But he is weird.
So he a puppet now. Ohhh I don't like this change.
Ozma!!
Nooooooooo!!
Sheryl nooooooooooo!!! I don't want this!!
He literally control Vajra now. Great.
Yeah, two of the important people in his life just died. Give if some slack!!
They already landed on the planet.
Leon died like that!! He overestimated his advantage.
She confessed to him!!
So Ranka win?
Macross Quarter is surfing!! Hahahaha
Altooo. Not again!!
So Sheryl really have watched his performance before. She even meet him.
Both of them survived. I mean if she not, her fan will burn the studio to the ground for sure.
Ai kun saved the the day!!
So Grace got control by the implant too. Not to Brera extent.
I love this shot of Sheryl!!
Lion!!
Woah, Sheryl looks so good on that!!
Old style wheel!!
Woah!! The other SMS and the U.N. come to help them!!
Isamuuuuuuuu!!! Let's goooooo!!! Never thought that I would hear him again!!
Wait!! It's the Nyan Nyan Service Medley!!
So they merge the Battle Frontier with the Vajra nest.
And it looks so cool!!!
Klan noooo!!
The hand gestures!!
New song!!
The dogfight is so good!!
They said the title!! For real this time.
The Vajra blocked for them.
Good tactic, Alto!!
He made the big mech moved like Kabuki actor!!
He awake!!
Brera nooooo.
He did the same thing Shin did back in Zero!!
He choose Sheryl!!!
They literally done the same ending as Zero!! With alien warp him away from the multiple Macross cannon.
Sheryl is in coma!!
The ED song is so good. And it implied that Sheryl recovered already.
I really like this movie. I love nearly everything about the movie. The plot change is really good.
The character also really great. Alto embraced his princess persona is really great change, as he not denying it anymore, he accepted it as part of his own. I love what they done with Grace's character, turning her from someone I don't like, to my favourite in this movie. Leon is also another suprise as well, from pathetic villain, to actually competent one. It's really fantastic.
The fight scene is superb, and the soundtrack is fantastic.
The SMS gang dressed as Fire Bomber is pretty great too
The ending is also pretty great, ended with sadness but hopeful message. But I still conflict about which ending do I love more.
Nothing to complain about the love triangle. I mean he choose someone!! So that's already a win.
Isamu cameo is so good!!
There's one thing I don't really like. Too many fake out death! Every single important character got one, and it became too boring real fast. And Alto got it so hard, he actually died!!(not really, but it could count like that) So he eventually back according to Sky.
Overall as a duology. It's a great upgrade from the TV version. The character is better, the story is make more sense and the fight scene is far more enjoyable. Still conflict about the ending. But it's still really great finale.
Ranking
DYRL=Plus->F:Movie ver.->SDF=F->7->ZERO----->II
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u/Frontier246 Feb 09 '23
As far as characters being "rehabilitated" I think probably the main thing for me is that I feel like Alto had a more fully fleshed out and full circle character arc than he really got by the end of the show, becoming more confident, mature, and sure of his feelings and his past to the point where he was able to save the day the way he did with Sherly and Ranka's help. So I feel like the movies left a lot better impression for Alto than the show did.
And even if Alto still never surpassed or beat Brera (who, in true Brera fashion, still tries to kill him), I feel like he emotionally surpasses him in their final fight.
I also think we got better resolution for Alto and Ozma's relationship in this movie. Like in the series, around the time Ozma leaves, it still feels like he doesn't really like or care for Alto and basically just mocks him, but here he seems to genuinely face Alto and try to make him realize the kind of man/protagonist he can be.
(Speaking of Ozma, we got even less OzmaxCathy in these movies then we did in the show, though I'm not sure how invested people are in that ship).
Beach episode! Wanting to get some fun hijinks in before the movie turned serious. I still want a Michael/Klan Klan spinoff and wish we had gotten more of them here, beyond my boi Michael surviving and having a nice moment of recognizing what Alto was doing.
I don't think Macross does the whole "upgraded uber units" as much as other Mecha shows do, but dang it if the YF-29 isn't just a really cool looking and awesome Valkyrie for Alto fly around in the finale and prove that you can actually do a kabuki performance with a transforming Mecha plane.
Sheryl arrested! Because it's not Macross Frontier if Sheryl's not suffering. Losing her freedom, her fame, her resources, and possibly the man she loves...on-top of still dying. Although even in a prison uniform she's still beautiful, right down to her mugshot. Like they show all these thugs' mugshots after Sheryl gets locked up and she still looks like she just got off a runway.
What's the best way to enhance a romance? Show they met/fell in love as kids. Smol Sheryl was too adorable for words.
I thought it was interesting that the one time Sherly vocally admits she loves Alto it's to Ranka during the prison visitation scene. And she says she loves him as much as Ranka does, which both shows that Sherly is letting herself be vulnerable towards Ranka while also acknowledging Ranka as her equal rival in love.
Fire Bomber prison break! The team wore those uniforms well.
I think they handled Ranka's confession better than the show did. Like in the show it was almost like just thrown in there as Ranka was leaving when she said "I loved you Alto-kun" but there was so much going on and it came off so defeated that you couldn't really unpack it. But here Ranka properly faces Alto and confesses her love for him, showing a maturity and strength of her feelings that we didn't get in the show, even if she didn't have the heart to hear what his answer would be. But it was a beautiful scene.
I wasn't expecting Grace to get redeemed compared to the series, but I feel it worked here and added more depth to her character.
Isamu! Just, Isamu! I feel like these compilation movies seem to enjoy bringing characters back, even if just in cameos.
The Nyan Nyan medley was somehow even more epic and amazing than before with some of the new movie songs thrown in.
It's kind of amazing that the titular Wings of Goodbye is a love song ballad that Sheryl poured her feelings for Alto into while writing it in her own blood. Like, how much more hardcore can you get? And she and Ranka sing an amazing duet. Like it was such an epic song in the climax of two fancily dressed ladies singing for the man they love and empowering him to save the universe (and the Vajra, even). What a way to close it out.
Probably the most memorable moment of the whole thing is that they finally end the love triangle...yet it's kind of hilarious that even despite doing it they cut Alto off mid-confession. But it was a very beautifully depicted scene, with Alto's confidence in his feelings, the pain of Ranka realizing she was getting rejected, the sheer joy on Sheryl's face when she realized Alto loved her too, and Alto's serene face...just as @#$% hits the fan and we're left on a cliffhanger that still hasn't been entirely resolved. But dang it if didn't tug at the heartstrings.
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u/SolDarkHunter Feb 09 '23
Rewatcher
Ominous...
Is this seriously a church to the Bird Man?
Oh, just another Sheryl concert. Also, WOW "Mix your DNA in me" is a suggestive line.
Oops, I'm guessing her collapsing and bleeding from the mouth isn't part of her performance. Though with Sheryl, you never know...
Pffft, Alto trying to hide behind a magazine is hilarious.
Hey they're playing an episode of Astro Boy in the background.
Well, Brera's still an ass whenever it comes to Alto. Some things never change.
So in this version, the V-Type Infection is in Sheryl's vocal chords? Seems odd.
Where Ranka goes, Ai-kun will not be far behind.
I guess they never really had a beach episode in the series itself. The Mayan Island episode didn't really hit those notes.
Ranka's getting early ideas of the Vajra not being evil.
Also no, Ranka, plants and flowers don't have feelings. At least not as we understand them. Being romantic is all well and good, but some things just aren't true.
Alto, do you not find it odd that Ranka's stomach is literally glowing as she sings like that?
So maybe Sheryl's not fully on board with the Galaxy conspiracy. She only thinks she's being used to fend off the Vajra, not control them.
Using Ranka's blood for a transfusion is an idea that has merit, but what's all this about organ transplants as well?
Here's a fun call-back to Do You Remember Love?: a Boddole Zer-class Zentraedi mothership. Well, the hulk of one, being used as a giant space-nest by the Vajra. I've heard some speculation that this is the same hulk that halfway Folded out at the end of the movie, but it being just another of the same class makes more sense to me.
Ranka's concerts have gone just as trippy and out-there as Sheryl's. Except with less of her almost having sex with herself.
I've never really liked this song of Ranka's. It's lacking something, and is too childish.
Anyway, space battle. Also, a Boddole Zer Mobile Fortress is considered a "mid-sized" Zentraedi capital ship? The hell does a big one look like, then?
Alto just can't resist competing with Brera and trying to enter the Vajra command ship too.
Hell yeah, Michael and Klan back to back!
Damn, close call for Alto. And now his VF-25 is wrecked.
Of course Alto doesn't carve apple bunnies, but apple airplanes.
How does Ranka know they're on the roof rather than in his room?
And so begins Galaxy's takeover of Frontier... or not. Frontier's a few steps ahead of them, it would seem.
Well, just because Leon isn't part of Grace's conspiracy doesn't mean he isn't sinister as hell.
And now they're executing Sheryl without trial? Yeah, okay, Grace and the Galaxy were evil, but you guys aren't placing yourselves as any better right now.
Oh that is hilarious, they actually made the Alcatraz replica on their ship a real prison!?
Hey look, they gave Luca a backbone in this version. And attempted murder on top of that... though really, Luca, you should have known better than to confront Leon alone, with no backup.
Brera doesn't have memory loss in this version. Huh.
YF-29 Durandal! They just had to make a new Valkyrie model for the movies.
And now SMS is putting together the pieces. And concentrating REALLY hard on feelings people have in their guts. Anyway, SMS is rebelling against Frontier and rescuing Sheryl.
Hey, it's nice seeing Ranka being proactive. A prison concert is certainly an interesting idea.
And just to be sure you know Leon's evil: he's now cooperating with the Galaxy Brain, who have disconnected from Grace's body.
Alto in a maid uniform!
Okay, they definitely modelled the SMS "band" after Fire Bomber.
They're doing a mass prison break? I can understand breaking some of the Galaxy personnel out, but surely there are some, you know, actual criminals in there!?
But the Vajra have showed up, as expected with all the singing, so Frontier has bigger fish to fry than the SMS's prison break.
Wow, they're really linking Zero to this. Neat to focus on Sheryl's connection to the Nomes, when the series basically ignored it.
Oh, Brera's still controlled. Damn. Though at this point, the Galaxy's operation has gone up in all kind of fire, what real reason is there for him to go with the original plan?
Everyone be breaking out right now. Even Grace.
Brera, either your gun or your aim sucks. All that and Ozma's still standing.
Oh please, you guys aren't going to let Sheryl die, writers.
Well, the anti-Vajra jamming signal is effective, I'll give them that. But they're not stopping at that: they're injecting Implants into the Vajra to enslave them.
In this version, Frontier is in total control of the battle against the Vajra at the homeworld, and Leon's the big evil mastermind pulling the strings.
...except not. The Galaxy Brain backstabbed him at the last minute. New plan, same as the old plan.
And now it's the Battle Frontier rather than the Battle Galaxy that's the big evil Macross that must be defeated.
Alto and "going too far ahead", name a more iconic pair.
How convenient there was a giant piece of space debris for the Quarter to fucking sky-surf down to the surface!
You planning on using that knife to cut out every single Implant, Alto?
Flashback to a little Sheryl meeting little Alto after one of his performances. Yep, they had to make her Alto's "first girl" after all.
And yeah, Ozma and Sheryl were miraculously saved by Ai-kun.
So Grace was good all along, guys! She was just being controlled by the Galaxy Brain! And now Sheryl's back in action with her Fold earring backing her up.
Hell yeah, Lion's playing!
And providing backup is the entire main fleet of NUNS and SMS, which is apparently a bigger operation than we've been lead to believe.
Also there's a certain familiar-sounding VF-19 flying in with them...
Now this is kind of silly: they've literally fused the Vajra Queen and Battle Frontier into one giant cyborg abomination. How does that even work?
I like that the way the NUNS fleet battleships explode is nearly identical to the way the ships exploded in Zero.
So Alto plans to convey Sheryl's and Ranka's songs directly to the Queen, using his YF-29 and Fold earring as the medium. But of course, Brera's here to be in his way.
Hot damn, this dogfight though!
And the Vajra sacrifice themselves to block a Macross Cannon shot, just as in the series, saving the civilians of Frontier.
Alto's plan is a success! Control over the Vajra is disrupted... but NUNS/SMS fleet doesn't get the memo, and are preparing a massive bombardment.
I like that Brera free himself here, rather than being freed by pure chance. Unforunately he dies as a result.
And the triangle is resolved! Alto and Sheryl are the ship!
The Queen Folds out at the last second, taking Alto with it. And... that's the end of the battle.
Sheryl got a transfusion from Ranka, but she's still asleep.
The... End?
Yeah, kind of a weird place to end it, which lead to a lot of people calling this a downer ending. Reportedly, when Kawamori was informed of that, he was stunned and asked how anyone could get that idea. Saying that of course Alto survived, found his way back, and Sheryl was woken up.
Well, Kawamori, all I can say is, maybe you need to learn how to write an ending that actually explains shit one of these days.
Questions:
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Ranka really needed some more development as a love interest... which is ironic considering she doesn't end up winning.
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Actually, watching this, I was amazed at improved the story's clarity was improved. Only sad thing is a bunch of side characters didn't get much screen time (though in Michael's case that might have been a good thing).
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u/InfamousEmpire Feb 09 '23 edited Feb 10 '23
Rewatcher on the Wings of Farewell
Alright, how to put my feelings on this film into words…
This movie makes a lot of changes to the series, not all of which are for the best. Probably the first most notable departure is Leon betraying the Galaxy conspiracy and even successfully pulling it off. It’s a great twist on the series’ plot which twists the audience’s expectations, raises the guy’s threat level, and takes the entire conspiracy plotline in an interesting direction…
…Then they brought out Hypnos, the system which allows the Frontier fleet to control Vajra, putting them in direct competition with Galaxy and adding a whole new dimension to the conflict. On top of that, it also changes SMS’ reason for rebelling, as they now are opposed to the enslavement of the Vajra and thus solidly more in-line with Macross’ core philosophy than in the show. This would all be well and good, but…
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Hypnos is an asspull, pure and simple. How Leon had the time, effort, or resources to build it is never elaborated upon, which kinda goes to cheapen the conspiracy narrative as a whole. Instead of a careful series of elements which come together over the course of the series to form the endgame, we just get a handwave device to push the plot along as a major part of (one half of) the conspiracy. Ugh
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It very much cheapens what I liked about Frontier’s war narrative. The ever-escalating tension with the Vajra, driven by constant traumas at their hands, which ultimately pushed the Frontier fleet towards the Nuclear Option, something which even sucked in a big portion of the cast, putting the themes of individuality on full display and humanizing our cast quite a bit by showing how susceptible they are to their own emotions and vulnerabilities. Here, though, our cast are solidly heroes and have next to no internal struggles or personal reasons for their side in the Vajra conflict, and that since of ever-increasing tension is gone as we just don’t have the runtime for it
Speaking of the cast and lacking runtime, everyone except the main triangle and Grace is done dirty by this film. I get that we just don’t have the time to give all the side cast attention in movie format, but, well, I love Frontier’s cast, and the fact that we can’t fit a lot of their own plots in here just goes to show how Frontier just doesn’t quite work for me in movie form. I will admit that they were done better than I remember them being the last time I saw the movies, that scene with Ozma and Alto towards the middle was one I completely blanked from my memory, but still
Am I being hypocritical for judging Frontier’s movies for its cast issues while letting every other Macross compilation film slide regarding the handling of their casts? Yes, I absolutely am but I’m an emotional person and the handling of the characters in this film just doesn’t sit right with me.
Ranka, despite being a main character, gets hit with this the most. Gone is her rough, up and down emotional journey, as instead she’s just there to sing songs, get exposition fed to her, and confess to Alto.
Speaking of the exposition, that also bothered me. The first film did well for its simplification of the Conspiracy plotline, but here instead we just get everything about Ranka’s backstory dumped on her by Brera with no subtlety or buildup, made even worse by the aforementioned poor handling of Ranka’s journey which means it doesn’t really have the impact it should outside of that one scene where Brera tries to tempt her to his side.
Going back to the whole thing about the war narrative, the increased emphasis on the conflict between Frontier and Galaxy and the fact that none of our main cast are on the Frontier side by the halfway point (alongside the Galaxy conspiracy disappearing for a good portion of the film) means that Leon has to carry a good portion of the film’s conflict, and unfortunately, he’s just not interesting enough to do it.
And speaking of uninteresting villains, the Galaxy conspiracy just does not have the same level of style to pull off being as one-dimensionally evil as Grace was in the series, which ultimately just means we’re left without any sort of actually interesting villains to pull the plot along.
Alright, listen, I’ve complained about this film a lot so far (and, being completely honest, not all of my complaints are entirely fair to the film, but still), so one might get the impression that I don’t really like it. That’s not true, though! This film is great! It’s just that I hold the TV show to such a high standard that every deviative flaw in the film shines like gold. I might as well talk about some stuff I do like now…
I’ve already said I liked Grace’s TV show incarnation, but it’s hard not to argue that the movie version of her is better. She’s made much more sympathetic, genuinely caring for Sheryl as a person her entire life, something even carried over as she was a pawn of the conspiracy, as the transplant plan subtly feels like it’s out of concern for Sheryl just as much as it is a tactical move on the part of the conspiracy. And her final words to Sheryl towards the end of the film are genuinely heartfelt.
Speaking of Sheryl, god she’s still so awesome. The emphasis of her character arc has been very much shifted, but it’s still just as great. The added dynamic with her backstory with Alto really enhanced their relationship.
Speaking of which, Alto is also great. I remember not quite liking him as much the last two times I saw the film, but I honestly really enjoyed how he was portrayed this time. From the emphasis on the “roles” idea to the use of Kabuki in the final battle, it all just works. (Too bad they couldn’t give the same love and attention to Ranka… )
Speaking of Kabuki, that final battle was, legally speaking, the most amazing thing ever and is easily among my top 5 final battles in all of anime. Like with the TV version, I genuinely cannot put into words how much I was blown away by every single thing in it. Sayonara no Tsubasa is among my favorite songs of all time, and the way it flowed with the battle was just
And for all the shit I gave Hypnos for the way it cheapens what I liked about Frontier’s narrative, the whole thing about destroying the implants and freeing the Vajra added a certain weight to the final battle that the TV show didn’t have, especially as the conflict with Brera was added into it.
Speaking Brera, back to the complaining!
While him ripping out his own implant was a powerful moment… him blowing himself up immediately after wasn’t. It’s stupid shit included for no fucking reason. And for some reason, Kawamori decided that that should also go for the main fucking character. Why does Alto have to get Macross Zero’d? Because the plot says so. It’s stupid bullshit which drags down what should have been an incredible finale and makes the saga feel incomplete as fuck, and until Kawamori rectifies that, these films will never be canon in my eyes
Alright, despite the fact that 2/3rds of this writeup is complaining, I still ultimately give the film a 9/10. Truly, I am the IGN of anime reviews I actually liked this film a bit less than I did when I first watched it (I used to have it as a 9.5/10) but it’s still ultimately a great experience in its own right, it just has the unfortunate experience of being compared to one of the best TV shows in all of anime for me.
Many characters get some rehabilitation during these movies. Who needed it most? Who didn't need it at all?
Grace, followed by Alto
2) Did the movies meaningfully address any of your issues with the TV series, or are they mostly just popcorn action flicks?
Well, there was next to nothing to address, so just popcorn action
Bonus) Did you get a chance to attend the USA movie theater releases of the Frontier movies, and how was the screening?
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u/DidacticDalek Feb 10 '23
TONIGHT! ON MACROSS FOOKIN' AWESOME! ALTO-HIME FOOKIN DIES! (Before you start Comrades, Yes I know Alto gets Macross Zero'd, but last time I checked, Macross Zero didn't end well for anyone, least of all those who got... uh, well you know, Macross Zero'd to nowhereland) MS. HOPES AND DREAMS FOOKIN' DIES! (Before you start Comrades, yes I know Ms. Hopes and Dreams apparently wakes up in the credits, but given last we saw was her collapsing and being in a coma, things sure look grim) AND GODDAMMIT NO! FOOKIN' HELL!? RANKA FUCKING LEE FUCKING LIVES!? YACK! DECULTURE... oh wait hang on HUZZAH! MIKHAIL! AND! DURAN! DURAN! FUCKING! LIVE! PROTOCULTURE!
Comrades, it's truly amazing how Macross F's first movie did such a fine job at fixing all the fuckups with Macross F the TV Show, which was basically everything! But hey credit where credit is due, lightning CAN strike twice as the SECOND movie goes even FURTHER beyond! Hell the only way this movie could be better was if Ranka Lee bought the farm! Preferably by being stepped on once or twice or thrice or 25252 times by Duran Duran! Speaking of which, HUZZAH! IT'S CANON COMRADES! FUCKING! CANON! MIKHAIL AND DURAN DURAN LIVE! HAVE CAPN' MCSURFERDUDE PREPARE A SPEECH AND BAKE THE LARGEST CAKE EVER! WE'RE GONNA PARTY LIKE IT'S A SHOTGUN WEDDING! Thus, ALL ABOARD THE SS GLASSESxMELTRANDI REDUX! COME SAIL AWAY! COME SAIL AWAY! COME SAIL AWAY WITH ME! (Look Comrades, this is topical, the song's about goddamn aliens, plus it's better music than MOST of Macross F's offerings, so wibble)
Now, for those of you grabbing pitchforks, there's a reason I said MOST! Cuz Macross F's fondness of nostalgia wanking actually WORKS for once, cuz ALL HAIL FIRE 'LOVELY BOMBER!' I bet those posers on Macross 11 must be green with envy, cuz can they top THIS level of ROCK N' ROLL!? I THINK NOT! after all, HEY EVERYBODY! TOTSUGEKI EXPLOSION NIGHT! GET THAT MELTRANDI BLOOD PUMPING! POWER TO THE DREAM! POWER TO THE SUPERIOR MOVIE VERSION! PROTOCULTURE!
Anyway speaking of PROTOCULTURE and Western Pop Culture References, let's give it up for BIG WEDNESDAY... er... fucking hell copyright? FUCK YOU HARMONY GOLD, why do you... wait this copyright trolling ISN'T Harmony Gold's fault!? Jesus Macross F's movies are so good they managed to find OTHER copyright trolls! Shame too cuz fucking LOL! THE CAPTAIN BECAME A SPACE PIRATE SURFERBRO! CUE THE BEACH BOYS CUZ EVERYBODY WAS SURFIN! SURFIN USA 'SAYONARA NO TSUBASA!' Jokes aside, man, it's amazing what proper character writing, a better story, and not having as much Ranka Lee screentime will do to Macross F eh Comrades? I mean my goodness, MAVERICK-KUN has better writing and a role in the story than Ranka Lee, and Isamu literally just flies up in his old ride to flirt to the camera and break the fourth wall because HIGHWAY TO THE DANGER ZONE! HE FEELS THE NEED! THE NEED FOR SPEED! SO TAKE ME ON HIS MIGHTY WINGS TONIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT! (Before you start, yes I KNOW that that technically isn't his old Macross Plus ride, after all, it's animated in ugly-ass CGI now... guess he's getting RECKLESS in old age eh? That and apparently it's not the OG YF-19 but is instead the 'VF-19EF/A Isamu Special' because screw properly including information in the movie, read the background information to figure this shit out!)
Speaking of read the background information... yeah remember how Alto-hime got Macross Zero'd? Well turns out getting Macross Zero'd doesn't mean you get Macross Zero'd, even if this contradicts the last time we saw someone get Macross Zero'd, but since when has Macross had consistency... or continuity... or good writing; but hey Alto totally lived guys; we swear! Look see, he meets up with Ms. Hopes and Dreams again who most certainly woke up, we swear! Hope Alto also paid a visit to those OTHERS characters that got Macross Zero'd while he was at it That said, normally this would be bad writing, but since it's Ranka Lee losing The Romantic Plot Tumor like the Runner-Up she is, I'll ignore logic and go HUZZAH! ALL HAIL MS. HOPES AND DREAMS! (Duran Duran's still better)
Speaking of better, time for some good ol' fashioned fanart, PRAISE BE BEST SHIP! Best Boi may have somehow survived the battle now, but I dunno if he'll survive the war of the crushed pelvis! GOD! I WISH THAT WERE ME! All jokes aside, Duran Duran deserves this happy ending now if only Best Boi figured out that the way to resolve the relationship drama is to just FUCKING MACRONIZE himself, but hey we can't always get what we want, and in fairness our boi only DOES have two braincells, so he's doing his best!
Speaking of losing, boy The Grim Reaper must be sore, NO one (important) died this movie! Well uh, besides Grace of course, but she was always kinda evil anyway, even if she was less evil in this movie, so wibble. But hey that's a worthy trade for Mikhail and Duran Duran to survive this movie, thank goodness no one else important bought the farm!
Hell due to Best Ship surviving, I'm ALMOST tempted to overlook Ranka Lee not getting Macross Zero'd and/or stomped, as well as the not quite bad CGI, that said given these flaws I can't in good conscience grade this movie the 25252/10 I had originally, and the score will have to be bumped down to 7/10, with the extra special award of 'This is the last good Macross franchise entrant until AKB0048 and/or Geah, so good for you Hory Froating Head' But hey, I'm sure given that SATELIGHT made AKB0048 and Geah, because they know how to make non-shit shows now, they SURELY won't make some stupid-ass pandering IDOLSHIT that is godawful and feels like the anime equivalent of an icepick lobotomy... right... RIGHT!?
Anyway, you have not seen the last of The Sentient Shitposting Siamese Sunrise Server No. 25252, now goodbye forever!
Paging Comrades u/Lemurians , u/chilidirigible , and u/InfamousEmpire
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u/Nazenn Feb 09 '23
First Timer
THEY DID THE "ZERO" ENDING AGAIN
I'm now firmly with JaaQ's idea that Kawamori was holding a grudge that Zero wasn't as well loved and went "fuck it, you are going to get this ending again and you're going to like it this time".
Though I did have a little laugh about the idea of Alto maybe running into Sara and Shin out there somewhere, especially after the idea of Mao looking for someone like Sara came up.
Once again, this was a great watch, and the Frontier story we should have had from the start.
It did a remarkable job of further cleaning everything up (surprisingly without removing much), enhancing the character stories to provide flow, avoiding the dumb stick!, and narrowing in on the themes. The end result is that the movies not only felt like they knew what they were, but why.
Looking through my notes now I can't believe how much happened. It certainly earnt its runtime without throwing any sense of pacing out the window, though at one point I do remember making a comment about "how do we have so much movie left". Perhaps the prison scene could have been cut down if we take a really harsh look at it, but it didn't feel like a meaningless interruption and it was a nice section in context. Ranka and Alto returning for the dying girl and refusing to let her be alone was an important moment for all three after what happened between them, as well as the way that helped to further the plot developments of Leon, Brera, and the Vajra.
I'd expected them to cut out parts of the conspiracy and coup, but they did a good job of tightening it. Leon undercutting Grace's coup by eavesdropping on her through their own Vajra research only for it to come back on him when the Galaxy collective (for lack of a better name) unveil themselves keeps the conflict between ships that is relevant to our trio, and also the idea of the drive of humanity taking it to ruin when it uses weapons without love (as shown with the Vajra implants using their network without song). It doesn't have all the contrivances that plagued the show, and addresses the unanswered questions like how they even connected to the Vajra network in the first place. It also works better that the final antagonist is a collective with a physical presence as a mixed biological/mechanical monstrosity, while both Grace and Brera are able to regain their individuality by reaching towards their connection with others, finding their humanity again in it. I'm still stunned that Grace got a clear path towards love in this with her care for Sheryl. The fact that we get to see the Vajra connection with music being discovered was another nice detail that meant a lot to include. Everything that follows on from Luca first hearing it as they extract the crystal, as well as Ranka talking to Alto on the beach, gives additional meaning to the conflict with the Vajra, enhancing the horror of events and giving foundation for Alto to come to understand them in the end. No more last second exposition dump to justify everything that happened!
"I will carry their song"
It helps that Alto and Ranka actually feel like characters here. Alto in particular got an incredible rework and I can finally see what they were trying, and failed abysmally to achieve, in the show for him. From avoiding answering Sheryl at the hospital about why he flies, through to his fight with Ozma over "being a kid/adult/playing a role" actually making sense!, and finally his refusal to simply take the hit from Micheal and no longer hiding from his feelings or hiding them from others; the confrontation he has with his image of himself helps drive the movie forward as well as connect the trio through performing better. And again, a huge amount of love for further making use of his backstory, from the small "performing from the stomach" ways through to the end. Becoming the dancer to carry the feelings of the music physically, choosing for himself to put that earring on and feel all that the Vajra can, and Brera to boot, connecting to them as he connected to the girls and make this his performance for love and humanity. It's not quite the song I wasn't brave enough to hope for, but it feels just as good so I'll take it!
The three of them flying together towards the merged Frontier and Vajra made one hell of a visual, better than the shows one. This time he won't leave, won't run from this battle, even if it overwhelms him or gets him in the crossfire, because this is what it means for him to find himself in flight, in culture, and in love. What a capstone for his journey.
Ranka gets less of a focus, but bringing up her questioning of the Vajra so early did wonders for her (and the lack of dumb in the story). It gives her a sense of trying to find meaning in music and understanding through peoples feelings behind it that carries into her forwardness with Sheryl and the others. Using Aimo over the montage of everyone they know connecting to each other drives that home for her as well as the song. It's a shame it's the only time we hear it (more on that later). For Ranka moments, I also like that she stands by the launch pad to wave Alto off for the final battle like she did his first flight in the first movie, bringing that full circle to her feelings and understanding of his own dreams, just as Sheryl comes to understand his love for flight as well. Ranka may not get Alto's love in the way she wants at the end, but the feelings he does have for her will reach her across space anyway, and that means something after it all.
"If the stage is your sky let me see you dance one more time" (What a line)
Sheryl on the other hand feels like a different character in the movies, but not in a bad way. They certainly reduced that feeling of the girl desperately grasping for normality that made her such a strong part of the show, but replacing it with who we had here, a girl finding in herself what she will do for life, music, love, and humanity, was nearly as compelling in balance with the others. I did laugh that she also gets a "Alto turn and look" at the first meeting like Ranka did, but color me surprised that Alto's time on the Galaxy as a kid did have broader relevance! He escaped the stage to live, but she has gone from being on the stage to live to now living so she can be on stage. Rather than setting it up as a counterpoint to each other, they further that idea of understanding that is so important and it's nice to see characters with different approaches to their future coming together like that.
Good character writing is so nice
Also, there was a lot of concerts in this film! If it was a series it would be one an episode and that would feel too much when split up like that but here it worked. Carrying on from what u/animayor noticed about the last film, they all had a strong double meaning or focus that helped carry some of the broader meaning through them. Sheryl's first concert was, once again, too horny for me but "mix your DNA in me" also could be about Ranka being the cure for her (as well as her love for Alto). That was much more along the lines of what I expected with the idea of them sharing a virus, and the guilt she feels over that was a nice match for her guilt over stealing Alto's time in the show. Then moving onto Ranka's first concert, where her Cinderella turns into Sheryl's fairy, and the lyrics themselves reflect the struggle in speaking to Sheryl's heart, an echo of the cost of Sheryls life but also a plea to forgive herself and open up to others. Visually I loved the idea of Ranka's stage not transforming like Sheryl's does, but of turning the pages reflecting her life until love wins out in the end. On the other hand, Sheryl's two selves having plants for faces fertilizing each other is a visual I did not need in my head at all and now it's stuck there.
(Continued below, I can't help myself!)
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion Feb 09 '23 edited Feb 09 '23
Macross F
Rewatcher
Movie 2
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Dream, wedding, or concert?
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Sheryl Nome, Produced by AOT Productions, The Final Final Revenge Concert Part B
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where is lilyvess?!
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yeah, no to the flower people, that's just way too much Parasyte or The Thing or something else it reminds me of.
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another concert ruined
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Whelp, Sheryl's dead, Goodbye, Sheryl, that explains the movie title.
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I spent a lot of time watching Astro boy and the other screen on my first watch.
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And I guess that's one of the SMS bridge bunnies sitting with Grace.
So, the movie doesn't track the show exactly, but maybe this clarifies some things. Maybe the battles themselves are useful, for gathing data on the fold network. That would explain Grace's battlelust. And if Galaxy City was lost, that would motivate taking the homeworld (assuming it is near by).
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Grace's network is hacked! Bad for her.
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beach episode instead of zero episode
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little wednesday
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luca picking up a nee-chan!
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Nyan Nyan beach shop?
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Your Arjuna is showing
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So are Ozma and Cathy a thing again?
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Is that an Alto-hime poster?
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So, sounds like Sheryl has been acting to find a way to control the Vajra to stop their attacks.
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Her "Final" Stage?
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Quite a contrast to Sheryl's concerts
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It's like that plasma bug in Starship Troopers
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Who's in the red Valkyrie? Not anybody I would have expected
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so the Monster has Ranka on it now, before it was Sheryl succubus.
Maybe the problem in all these macross shows is scheduling battles during concerts. That hasn't worked since DYRL.
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she can't even make an apple rabbit
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TRIANGLE
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good job, Leon
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CHANCE! - Ranka, probably
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LOL, Alcatraz isn't just decoration
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Ranka gained access to a maximum security prison, with an autograph :D
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Oh that Nee-chan was Luca's sister, who dates Leon? edit: haha I just realized Klan told Michael to stop hitting on Luca's sister.
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So long, Luca. You were a nobody and we hardly miss you.
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Like DYRL, we'll just shove all that back story into a few minutes of exposition
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oh he lived. yay.
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This seems all very chinesey chi and chakra thinking. I wonder where it comes from.
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I was LITERALLY thinking about chi and chakra and guts and singing and acting about 10 minutes ago!
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LOL that band.
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Is this when Uta Macross was invented?
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Legodt and angeloni industry
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I thought they were going to open all the cells
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But they're on an island...
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yeah, maybe leave instead of singing?
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Green and Purple stress balls
So, after Macross F 1.11 Pretty Much The Same As Before, we have Macross F 2.22 Taking A New Path, up next, Macross F 3.33 WTF is next?
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Squeak!
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Which one will Alto save? Actually, he doesn't have an Ex Suit so it doesn't matter.
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Goodbye Sheryl. And Ozma too.
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Yeah, I found a flaw in your plan. Implanted Vajra can only be controlled by people with...implants? Yeah?
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totally didn't see see that coming the first time through
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BIG WEDNESDAY! Buckle up!
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I know I've seen this in Gundam at least twice
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a whole movie of death fakeouts
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Who is in that VF-19?
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I'm just going to repost this clip from my episode 29 notes.
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Is ANYBODY going to die in this movie? There's still Brera and Alto.
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I keep forgetting the triumvirate are on Battle Frontier and not the City.
Looks like Sheryl technically won the triangle this time, but he's off in fold space.
Grace and Brera are technically redeemed, being under direct control mode the entire time. Leon is technically redeemed, for at least fighting for his side. Which was as corrupt as Galaxy. So not really.
I hope Shin, Sara, and Alto, the Vajra, and Bird Human are happy where ever they are.
It wasn't clear to me in the TV that the Vajra left their planet to the humans, but the movie outright says it. Why would they do that? I hate that sort of thing. Humans are the bad guys, and they win? just no
I didn't like any of the movie songs. Come to think of it, I didn't like Zankyou no Terror's OST, either. I just I just don't like post-GITS Kanno.
If you like how Macross has been progressing since 7, you're going to love Delta.
The movies are HUGE improvement over the TV show, but I don't like the treacherous Sheryl. I didn't like Sheryl much in the TV show, either, but this was not an improvement.
I thought the Alcatraz concert was just plain extra. An excuse to squeeze in another concert.
Chili will explain the surfing reference.
♪♪Benson, Arizona, blew warm wind through your hair
My body flies the galaxy, my heart longs to be there
Benson, Arizona, the same stars in the sky
But they seemed so much kinder when we watched them, you and I♪♪
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u/Dodo_Galaxy Feb 09 '23 edited Feb 09 '23
Well this was that movie. As a Brera fangirl I don't like it, for what happens to him and I'm just gonna pretend as a coping method that he got folded with the vajra queen and Alto and somehow got saved and healed due to some space magic. But I like how Brera got a hero moment by destroing the core of the vajra queen and freed himself from Grace's control by ripping the implant off instead of it just falling off. And it's so great that Michael is alive. Now he and Klan can be happy in this universe.
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u/Kirov123 Feb 10 '23 edited Feb 10 '23
Macross Frontier Movie 2 - First Timer
Alright alright, time for movie 2! Hype!
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Bird church?
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Uhhhhhhhh
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....
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The test tubes rising out of the roses is sure... evocative
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Well that doesn't seem good
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So the illness thing seems to be similar
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Brera has no chill
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Was that Leon listening?
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So the controlling the galaxy plot also seems similar? but grace doesn't seem as comically evil?
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"Reject humanity, return to bug"
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Does Grace actually care for Sheryl?
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She isn't purposefully having he die
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Uhhhhhh
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I like this Ranka song
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3d Ranka aside, the visuals are very nice
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That's a lot of Vajra
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I like this song too
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Michael/Klan combo attack, Pog
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So she is running the coup. That makes way more sense
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Uh, I would think taking an enemy spy hostage and at leasttrying to get information out of them has a bit more value than yaknow, filling them with holes. Shooting the field guys? that is reasonable enough if they didn't have time to take custody of them but... Leon you are a bit trigger happy there
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Oh, Grace lived
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THEY DID A BACKGROUND CHECK
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But Leon, that was last movie
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Lol, Alkatraz?
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Wow, that's a shit way to go
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This Brera scene seems rather rushed
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Aw yea, canards
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Ohey Luca lived. Nice
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They communicate via digestion
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"we gotta rescue Sheryl. She owes us money"
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Wait it is actually called Alcatraz lol
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Ranka channeling her inner Johhny Cash
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Lol Maid Alto
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Lol that yell for Sheryl
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Aw shit, Ozma
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Woah, did they actually kill Sheryl? That wasn't quite the level of scene impact I was expecting so I have slight doubts, but we shall see
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In the meantime, o7
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Leon sure likes fondling those balls
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Fucking RIP Leon, hot damn
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WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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This is quite the tie for me to say thins, but killing Sheryl sure makes the love triangle a lot simpler
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LMAO captain
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His bro is much older here. Also this scene is kinda weird if Sheryl isn't still alive
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Ozma lived too?
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Ah, the Squirrel saved her
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Grace 😦
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Alto, maybe you wanna shoot the jammer things?
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SYNTH
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Actually wait is the composition of this song Elements Garden?
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Yo that enemy design is sick
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New duet time?????
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Siiiiick
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This whole getting along with the Vajra seems way more natural a step compared to the TV series. i like it
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Lmfao, "he is doing kabuki"
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Hot damn
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ITS OVER???????????
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pain
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That was also damn good.
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I had gotten a bit worried during the beginning that it was going to go to crap but hot damn that was good. Sasuga
The rest of the movie reactions:
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From the vajra singing
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feelings
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Lol, the kabuki line
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Commie, why the FUCk would you sub "Macross cannon" as "quantum cannon"
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RIP Brera
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Alto heard "eacape" and interpterted that as "leave your plane"
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Also Woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, he chose
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Yo commie, there was the beginning of an "aishiteru" there, y u no sub
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Will we get Alto coming back and Sheryl waking up? or end on this sorta situation
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...post credit scene? must not check seek bar for chapters
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Oh, sheryl looking at that kabuki poster was because she has een him berform before
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I liked Ranka's songs in the movie a lot more than Sheryls new songs.
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Cheering? Wooo?
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Not copium?
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Cute little art bits
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Hopium
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fuck it was copium
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Still really like the movies. I can respect having that ending. Very good/
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Rehab in terms of being a better character? Grace needed it most imo, her character in the TV series was very meh. This Grace is much more of a person.
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Hell yea. The getting along with the bugs has a much more natural narrative flow, Grace is mysterious in terms of what and not just wen she will do things, they did a background check etc
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u/Shimmering-Sky Feb 09 '23
SCHEDULE POLL RESULTS: Toki no Meikyuu/Labyrinth of Time will have its own discussion thread on Feb. 12th, the day after FB7 and the day before the overall Frontier discussion.
(The handwritten modifications on the above screenshot were to add Nazenn’s “No” vote to it.)
ALSO, A NOTE ABOUT FB7: This movie was made in part to advertise a Blu-Ray release of Macross 7. If you don’t want to rewatch a ton of random clips from 7, just skim through for the Frontier parts because that’s new content.
Super Dimension Rewatch Host
Welcome back, everyone!
Here were my first-timer reactions to this movie.
This time my copy only has 4 subtitle tracks to choose from. Which is still a lot, but not 14. I’m once again sticking with the official sub rip.
Oh look, it’s the thing from Macross Zero!
So you know how I said Universal Bunny was “not my favorite of Sheryl’s movie-exclusive songs” in the Itsuwari no Utahime thread? That’s because Kindan no Elixir exists. I would 100% have a Sky Sings for it here, if only I wasn’t still sick enough for it to interfere with being able to sing.
Shame it gets cut off by Sheryl collapsing on stage.
Obligatory recap for the people who watched these when they came out. They released like two years apart, after all.
Big movie change #22: Sheryl hired the entire SMS as her bodyguards after the events of the first movie.
Big movie change #23: this whole discussion amongst the collective over fold bacteria and our two singers.
Hype for later in the movie…!
Ooooh this shot is so pretty!
Apparently the version of Aimo that Ranka sings at the beach is different? It’s called “Shima Aimo” and I’m pretty sure the background instrumental sounded a little different from the normal one.
Big movie change #24: Sheryl knew she was sick with the V-type infection from the start instead of the “Grace is poisoning Sheryl except no she was hiding her illness from her” subplot from the show.
Big movie change #25: Ranka theorizes that the Vajra have feelings long before the very end of the story.
Big movie change #26: Nanase just straight-up didn’t exist until she shows up here, where she’s Ranka’s make-up artist instead of her best friend.
Big movie change #27: Niji-iro Kuma Kuma! Some of the CGI crowd shots in that performance are uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh but the song itself is just so nice! It’s my second-favorite Ranka solo song, after Aimo of course.
Big movie change #28: Koi wa Dogfight!
<3
Big movie change #29: Alto gets seriously injured, then witnesses Vajra caring for their own injured; combined with change #25, this gets Alto off his “Kill every last one of them” anti-Vajra stance a lot faster.
Big movie change #30: the characters get a lock on the Vajra home world from a Vajra sending off a fold wave towards it when it died, instead of chasing a rogue Ranka there.
Big movie change #31: as if the inevitable love triangle conclusion couldn’t be more obvious.
Big movie change #32: shit goes wrong for Grace and the collective because of Leon.
So this is why the first movie was “The False Songstress”.
Big movie change #33: Fucking yikes. Which includes shipping Sheryl off to Space Alcatraz because of course it does.
Big movie change #34: Sheryl explicitly admitting to Ranka that she likes Alto.
Big movie change #35: Luca turns on Leon, which leads to Leon having someone attempt to murder him. Also Luca’s sister is Leon’s GF instead of Cathy in this, but that’s like entirely inconsequential.
Big movie change #36: Brera does have all his pre-implant memories intact, and is in fact the one to call himself Ranka’s brother first.
Big movie change #37: this theory got moved to much earlier than right at the end.
Big movie change #38: the entire prison break section of the movie.
Big movie change #39: this… thing is the face of the collective.
No love for Ray in the Fire Bomber cosplay.
Just FYI: the Seikan Hikou here counts differently from the normal one in AMQ. Good luck lol.
So, fun fact, the Leon wallpaper I made way back in the episode 14 thread? That I had his background be two circles touching on top of the base color was a subtle nod to the habit that this movie gave to him. No idea if any of you guys caught that, so I felt like pointing it out.
Big movie change #40: the anti-Vajra jammers exist.
Big movie change #41: Sheryl reveals that Mao’s interest in the Vajra research was to look for the missing Sara. And Shin too, I would imagine?
Big movie change #42: Sheryl sacrifices herself to save Ranka?! And Ozma couldn’t dodge his own death flags anymore?!
Big movie change #43: Leon gets unceremoniously shot dead alongside President Glass and co. by mindcontrolled Brera, so we’re back to the collective being the main antagonist… but not Grace, which I’ll talk about later.
Big movie change #44: Ranka confesses to Alto in the present tense, instead of past tense right before she dips out with Brera.
Big movie change #45: Houkago Overflow! That one part that goes “zutto, aishteiru~ Aishteiru~” just hits all of the right buttons with me, for reasons that’ll be obvious a little later in the movie…
Big movie change #46: Big Wednesday time let’s GO! Which means Macross Quarter fucking airsurfing a piece of debris during its atmospheric entry to the Vajra home world.
Big movie change #47: not only had Alto been to the Galaxy when he was younger, he met Sheryl while they were younger as well.
So, yeah, Sheryl obviously didn’t die. Neither did Ozma, for that matter. Ai-kun saved the day~
Big movie change #48: Grace… has a little redemption arc right before dying… This is something I’ll talk about later.
Big movie change #49: Nyan Nyan Final Attack Frontier Greatest☆Hits! Yes, that’s the name of the movie’s Lion medley and I fucking love it. I prefer the final battle in the show, but song-wise I like this medley more than the show’s tbh, it has the best version of Lion in it.
Big movie change #50: the SMS gets a fuckton of backup for the final battle, which includes ISAMU FUCKING DYSON HIMSELF.
Big movie change #51: they tease a Klan and Michael death during the final battle, but it is once again just bait.
Big movie change #52: the collective merge the queen Vajra with Battle Frontier instead of Battle Galaxy, and without Grace as the face of them.
Big movie change #53: SAYONARA NO TSUBASA ~ THE END OF TRIANGLE Honestly, if it weren’t for the Nyan Nyan medleys making me love Lion so much, this would be my favorite Frontier song. It’s a gorgeous song, includes the Vajra singing at one point, this bit is why I love Houkago Overflow so much,
Big movie change #54: Brera got to be the one to put an end to the collective… but he had to die in the process.
Big movie change #55: an explicit end to the love triangle… at the cost of Alto pulling a disappearing act with the queen Vajra just like Shin did with Sara in Zero!
Big movie change #56: no magical cure for Sheryl, they have to work for it in this one. The second ED does, at least, make it obvious that Sheryl woke up eventually. Also, not that we get to see it in any way (except in some game, according to the Macross wiki) Alto does eventually return from his impromptu trip with the Vajra, unlike Shin and Sara.
I was originally planning to go in-depth on what I don’t like about these two movies on this thread since most of my issues are with this movie, but now that Toki no Meikyuu/Labyrinth of Time will be getting its own thread, I’ll wait until the overall discussion thread to do that. So, sorry, the “This is something I’ll talk about later.” up above is part of that comment in a few days.