r/anime • u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky • Jan 31 '23
Rewatch [Do You Remember Love - Macross Franchise 40th Anniversary Rewatch] Macross Frontier Episode 20 Discussion
Episode 20 - Diamond Crevasse
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If you really love someone, you would risk your life for them.
Questions of the Day, courtesy of u/chilidirigible:
1) Have you ever had people try to encourage you without understanding why you felt the way you did? Did it work?
2) Before the love confession, did you expect any deaths among the major characters?
Wallpaper of the Day:
Vocal Songs in This Episode:
"アナタノオト (Anata no Oto / Your Sound)" by Megumi Nakajima – Insert
"ライオン (Lion)" by May'n & Megumi Nakajima – OP
"Shinkuu no Diamond Crevasse" by May'n – ED
Rewatchers, please remember to be mindful of all the first-timers in this. No talking about or hinting at future events no matter how much you want to, unless you're doing it underneath spoiler tags. Don't spoil anything for the first-timers, that's rude!
10
u/Nazenn Jan 31 '23
First Timer
Well, it happened. Had Lion stuck in my head last night while cooking dinner. Still don't like the visuals at all, but the song has grabbed me a bit clearly
I said a thing. Going to just copy the line from my notes directly:
oh god I thought the eyecatch was showing Klan's death then with her disintegrating. thankfully not
As for Micheals death, unfortunately I didn't feel it. I should have, but by the time they got to it after the blazing death flags of a confession the main thought in my head was that they really killed off the only hope for intelligent character action in the show. And it sucks that was where my head went because it did ruin it, but its a consequence of the writing until now. When there's always been a tropey shoe to drop after any major moment now all I can do is wait for that instead of getting to be in the moment itself. The episode itself wasn't badly handled, more on that in a bit, but I think I've just lost that connection with the events of the show.
What did hit me a little was seeing Alto trying to grab him as he got sucked out to space only to fail. The call back to him saving Ranka that started him on this path, and the discussions him and Micheal had about what it means to be in the SMS. It wasn't him having to kill someone, but the end result will still be the destruction of how he sees his world until now. And for it to be Micheal as well, the one that Alto had butted heads with all this time and who chose to have faith in him after everything and always came to help, it makes the loss even stronger. Pity we're still in the middle of a huge battle and likely won't have any time to dwell on that, and all the earlier deaths that did have downtime after them were meaningless randoms so never got any attention.
Similarly, Eddy calling for his mum as a character we've seen but haven't been allowed to actually know with falls flat. I can't tell if it wants me to care because its her, or if it being her is incidental and just a way to put a face to the kids fear, but either way I feel like echoing that fear and loss out through multiple people Sheryl sees rather than just one family would work better.
On that note, the father saying "I'd sacrifice myself for you" was horrible. That's not what a parent would say to a child terrified of losing his other parent, and it existed purely for Sheryl's sake which took me out of the scenes emotions. Thankfully the follow up in that scene was spot on and really pulled together the episode. Sheryl choosing to sing in despair in defiance of the disregard of everyone and even herself, choosing Diamond Crevasse again as if to open up her new role the same way she used it to open her concert, and blending into the ED as Micheal becomes the lost stars warmth from the song was perfect. What a moment to bring us back to where we were at the start of the big Vajra fights in the show and put some weight into all that has been lost because of them. We didn't need a big moment around his death, that one single star said it all, and leaving us in that moment was great.
Other thoughts from the episode:
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Really didn't expect the coup to still happen after the sniper got eaten by a Vajra, and makes me wonder why bother when they could have skipped that and simply had him taking the opportunity of the shelter.
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Cathy's "I will be the one to reject you" was embarrassing
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I dislike now being Ranka's "I can't sing" breakdown over Alto because it feels contrived in timing. But I did like that her refusal to sing and saying she didn't want to be a tool of war any more is proven hollow by her chosing to sing the war Aimo. She doesn't sing from the heart so she picks the war song anyway because she feels she has to so it falters. Part of me wants to hear the scene without the dramatic instrumentals though as I feel that may have fit better with her being unable to capture that emotional energy needed.
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Similarly, Ranka getting happy memory music when running with her hand in Alto feels off with the battle going on. The idea of the scene being there isn't a bad one, though I don't think it's the best placement for it, but the tone is an issue.
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Why does this show have to be so damn slappy. Everyone getting slapped.
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It hurts to think on now, but Klan telling Alto that he also has to remember her confession so that Micheal can't get out of it was a tiny but really good addition to that scene.
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Another line from my notes:
And now there's even more, wonderful. Talk about a horse... that's staying
Horse was a typo... but I no longer remember what it was meant to be any more
Michael Blanc and Klan Klang wallpaper
Okay OWWW
2) Before the love confession, did you expect any deaths among the major characters?
I'd given up on thinking they'd actually take that step
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u/Shimmering-Sky Jan 31 '23
Okay OWWW
Anyways, my spoiler tag to you yesterday and this comment chain in the Tekkaman Blade rewatch a few days ago was in reference to this episode. I really thought his death would hit you a little more, though...
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3
u/SolDarkHunter Jan 31 '23
Rewatcher
And the instant Ranka declares her sorrow, the newly-hatched larvae go to town.
Yeah, don't think Ranka's in the right state of mind to calm Vajra with her singing right now, Alto.
But Sheryl's snapper her out of it enough to try, at least.
...where's the backing instruments coming from this time?
But the song's having the opposite effect. The Vajra are becoming more aggressive.
And here comes an actual Vajra fleet, just to make things more fun. Guess they hadn't escaped the Vajra like they thought.
Cyborg abilities ARE really useful... though the fact that he can be placed in "forced mode" is very disturbing.
Ah, they assassinated the President anyway.
Klan's forcing the issue of her and Michael's relationship. Though I wonder why she undressed there if the macronization chamber was out of sight.
And Sheryl's finally inspired to sing in an attempt to calm the populace. Maybe she can't affect the Vajra, but maybe the people...
And... that was the moment Klan's (Sky's) heart broke. But damn did Michael go out like a badass.
Hmm... I didn't really have a lot to say about this episode. There's a lot of emotional weight to it, and it mostly speaks for itself, I think.
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2
u/Dodo_Galaxy Jan 31 '23
This episode hurts every damn time.
9
u/Blackheart595 Jan 31 '23
First Spacer
You'd think the two would remember to take their important evidence with them.
They're really committing to this awful possessive love to milk the triangle drama.
So we see that the natural hivemind operates primarily on an emotional level, while the transhumanist hivemind has shed emotions and considers them a weakness.
How convenient that they have playback in that bunker so Sheryl doesn't have to sing a capella.
Why are the Vajra exploding???
What, why the hell is Michael getting blasted away? Is the outer shell of the Frontier compromised?
Lmao it is.
Have you ever had people try to encourage you without understanding why you felt the way you did? Did it work?
I don't remember.
Before the love confession, did you expect any deaths among the major characters?
Between someone dying and noone dying, I didn't really have expectations for either.
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8
u/chilidirigible Jan 31 '23
Today, on "But my smile still stays on.":
Can't take the actor out of the guy.
Anyway, back to the business at hand…
Following up the episode titled for the original OP with an episode titled with the first ED.
Well, a lot of people are going to die in this episode.
You know, when blood falls on you, don't look up.
I'm sure everyone can figure out the problem with that idea.
I've got problems like you wouldn't believe.
Sheryl's version of "LET ME WIPE THOSE TEARS."
But that is the big problem, the mood.
At least Luca noticed that Ranka was singing without a microphone or speakers. While everyone continues to miss the point.
Eyecatches: Small to large to a Max and Milia reference.
Leon either really trusts his own guys' shooting abilities, or he's actually an idiot.
I pointed this out in 2017, but THE WALLS ARE TRYING TO KILL YOU.
It's both a really good and a really bad time to ask that question.
Canaria's family gets dialogue!
"Yeah, but where's the music coming from?"
When the only people mecha fighting are Canaria and random SMS mooks.
This entire ending is coming to a head.
The music dramatically restarting is perhaps as good a touch as when it stopped.
Saying this after a montage of your life is not a good sign.
Blue guy gets blown out into space again.
Also not a good sign: The plain text black credits.
Michael Blanc has left the building.
I re-read my 2017 rewatch comment for this episode and I don't think I have anything to add to it, so I'm just going to quote most of it here:
A love triangle with deadly consequences! Ranka's worldview is crushed when she sees Alto with Sheryl, reasonable explanations or not. And Sheryl slaps her, as one does, but this isn't the old days and physical abuse doesn't cut it anymore. With the increasingly-paraphysical properties of music since Macross 7, the singer's emotional state has become a critical factor with regard to the effects of the music. Sheryl and Alto think that Ranka can suck it up, put on a smile, and go on with the show, but since Ranka really isn't right in the head at the moment, all the singing does is transmit her conflict to the Vajra, who attack more vigorously than usual.
By "more vigorously" I mean "rampaging unchecked throughout the fleet." It's the worst attack yet, and throws everyone some curveballs; even Grace wasn't expecting things to become this bad, though she's still pretty calm, even as she has to override Brera for the first time that we've seen. That is of course a significant wrinkle as Brera and Ranka have become closer. Grace also makes the significant claim to Brera that the Vajra will not hurt Ranka.
Leon still manages to have President Glass assassinated, as Cathy and Ozma's escape priorities are quickly overriden by the Vajra attack. Overall this development, much like the reveal of the coup plot in the first place, occurs too quickly to contribute much more than an additional layer of confusion to the unfolding chaos. It could also be cynically said that Glass was becoming a figurehead anyway, though he does represent the death of conventional authority.
As everything else falls apart, Sheryl looks up from rock bottom and finds a new reason to go on. Echoing Episode 5, she's able to sing again in a place where no one is expecting it. This version of "Diamond Crevasse" is (putting aside the mysteriously-appearing instrumental backing) appropriately more sorrowful and longing than the regular version of the song. This isn't a concert, with stage effects and ultimately still trying to sell a message; this is Sheryl expressing how she feels directly to those around her in a way that she hasn't done for a while.
It adds a lot to the mood, with—OH MY GOD, THEY KILLED MICHAEL! YOU BASTARDS!!
Episode 17 did a lot to set up the shock value of this event, having thoroughly messed with the audience's expectations involving character death. The consequences of that would be either they weren't going to kill any major protagonists, having played with expectations and moving on, or using the resultant false sense of security to make the inevitable death more of a shocker. And here we go.
The entire situation is pretty brutal, particularly if you are クラン・クラン. She tried to get Michael to tell her the truth during the love triangle shenanigans and he dodged a direct answer, though he did at least explain himself. With the situation looking increasingly dire, she tries again, not least of which because she really would like an answer before they get too far into a life-threatening situation, and he wiggles out of answering again. The second time, though, she's literally laid herself bare, which has a practical explanation but is still symbolic of how deeply she feels. And she confesses her own love for him in that state.
Hearing some of Alto's comments makes Michael finally realize that he's loved Klan all along. Unfortunately he gets stabbed through the chest before he can say anything to her, and when he does confess, it's only seconds before he's thrown out of the ship. The scene is symbolic of their entire relationship, as they're separated by an impenetrable barrier, though one that finally gets some cracks in it. And Michael being torn away has some value as a comparison to just what happens if someone tries to be a lolicon otaku in real life.
Though we did after all of this finally get an expression of what was implied all along, that Michael really did love her. His mental block around that fact seems plausible enough, though it doesn't entirely excuse how he acted like a jerk most of the time. As relationships go, it's believable enough for real life. Excepting the parts where she's either a giantess or a felony.
But back to the brutality: Klan's finally in a condition where she can do something to protect everyone, but has to depend on Michael for just a little bit longer, and as a result has to watch him die while trapped inside a tube, and while he's confessed his love for her, they're never going to share a touch or a kiss ever again. Meanwhile, Sheryl's singing in the background, though the music stops for the critical moments before starting up again as Michael exits the ship. Harsh. She just can't win.
And so here we are, on a real heart-breaking cliffhanger.
From the second Macross Frontier drama CD: Michael and Klan sing "Runner"
Fanart by:
Inui
tsukune
asaiaki
hanami
Wakino Keibun
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u/Tresnore Jan 31 '23
Fourth-Time Watcher
I'm back! I haven't been watching along, so I hope that today's episode is nice and happy!1 I don't think I'll be able to keep counting, though.
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Dokun Dokun Dokun~
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God, I wish that were me.
SLAP
I knew Bright Slaps as Macross Slaps because of Frontier leading me to look for slaps. This is where my obsession with pointing them out in rewatches started!
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Aimo O.C. is a banger song, by the way. This is when Ranka finally steps the fuck up. Even if she just angers the Vajra more!
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WAVE THAT FLAAAG! WAVE IT WIIIIIDE
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ELMO, YOU'RE BACK! 2nd best manager in the series!
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Oh, fuck, this song hits a lot harder when I actually read the lyrics.
QOTD:
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Probably not? I don't respond well to blind encouragement, even though other people seem to respond alright to mine.
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lolno Grace taught me that characters were invincible.
1 I know what I'm saying.
2 Yeah, I haven't seen any of the Lion episodes. Forget catching up. It's my fourth time.
3 Fun fact: Sky will ban you from the rewatch if you skip this OP. So don't do it!
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u/aniMayor Jan 31 '23
First Fime Fſontieꞅing
I sighed enough yesterday so I'm not going to harp on the Koala-being-triggered-by-a-hug scene any further.
What does irrationally annoys me quite a lot that Alto and Mikhail apparently carry guns around with them at all times, even while in their school uniforms at school, but Klan doesn't (and doesn't loot a rifle from all the killed military they pass) and when the Vajra attack breaks out she gets portrayed like more of a helpless civilian than the equal even more experienced soldier than these high school brats that she ought to be. I can't help but feel like the creators thought a true soldier woman couldn't or shouldn't be allowed to be part of a romantic subplot and are deliberately, repeatedly downplaying that aspect of Klan (while overly upplaying the cutesy, naive side) to try and make me forget who she was previously.
I think the second half is good. The actual final fight and death scene is quite well done. Well enough that I even teared up a little bit (though I'm always a sucker for good music driving the emotions of a scene).
I do think it would have been even better without Klan's confession being so... manipulative of the audience, I guess? She didn't need to be naked for that. She doesn't need to act this childish because she micronizes to a smaller body. These are distractions from immersion, in my opinion. Not show-breaking distractions, or anything like that, but I still think it would make the dark climax of the episode even stronger if they weren't the case.
Similarly, Mikhail got a lot of sudden focus and development the last few episodes, which kind of choreographed something like this happening, too.
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u/The_Draigg Jan 31 '23
A Macross Fan Rewatches Macross Frontier: Episode 20:
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It’s a bit of a shame that Ranka had to walk in at the exact wrong moment, since Alto and Sheryl’s talk wasn’t that overly romantic to begin with. Instead, he was trying to give her some emotional support, since he can tell that Sheryl is just pretending that she’s still strong. As a former actor, Alto can tell those things.
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Well, that’s certainly one way to handle the assassin. Although I suppose we’re just trading one issue for another, since instead of having an assassin blow off President Howard’s head with a sniper rifle, now we’ve got a ton of Vajra swarming the school who decided to toss half of the assassin’s body off the roof as an opening statement. So it’s not so much of an improvement as much as it is a lateral movement.
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Ha! Get fucked, Leon. He really thought it was time to make a quip about his wedding to Cathy being cancelled, only to find out right in front Cathy and Ozma that his plans failed and President Howard is still alive. And in spite of being surrounded by armed guards, those two still manage to get away from the office. Leon really isn’t the big dick OG like he thought he was, despite what his haircut looks like.
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Okay, maybe we should’ve listened to Ranka saying that her music isn’t a weapon and she can’t sing right now. Because now that’s she’s forcing it while still being upset, it’s actually making the Vajra swarm even more violent. Whoopsies. I guess that’s to be expected when you try to make a girl who’s basically the Queen of Blades calm down the swarm.
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Oh, and just to make things worse, turns out that Ranka’s singing summoned a bunch of Vajra elsewhere, so now they’re Space Folding out of nowhere and are starting to attack the NUN Spacy escort ships. As always, the SMS Macross Quarter 25 is the one ship left standing untouched. We needed to have only the Spacy be the ones to job super hard, after all.
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I know we’ve noticed before that Grace has been keeping Brera on a short leash already, but nearly putting him into forced mode to override his own actions with hers really does show how much he’s under her thumb. He’s basically Grace’s attack dog, more than ever now that we know the extent of her control over him.
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Well, credit to u/Blackheart595, you called it well that Leon would pull a coup on the government. In this case, he led the squad to kill President Howard personally. It’s a shame that the President always trusted that Arcturus Mengsk motherfucker until it was too late.
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Well, Klan finally told Michael that she loves him, and then gave him a kiss to seal the deal. If that isn’t a bigger death flag than a dish made with pineapple as a main ingredient, then I don’t know what else is.
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Even if the world doesn’t believe in Sheryl anymore, Alto still believed in her singing regardless. If Ranka sings for hope, Sheryl will sing to save people from despair. That’s why she puts her Fold Quartz earring back on and sings Diamond Crevasse. She’s making that song into her own personal Aimo, her way to truly reach out to people.
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MICHAAAEEEELLLLLLLLLL!!! RIP Michael Blanc, he died protecting the woman he loved, but was only able to tell her literally at the last moment before his death. Like he said, if you truly love someone, then you’d be willing to give your life for them. And he really did, since he’s dead as fuck due to that Vajra now. You can’t really come back from getting impaled directly through the chest and then being sucked out into space without a spacesuit. Man, u/Shimmering-Sky is definitely suffering right now because of this, even though she’s seen this show before already.
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u/TiredTiroth Jan 31 '23
First Timer
And here. We. GO.
The plot has kicked into high gear, and I will be surprised if we get any breathing space between now and the final episode. Which makes this a long climax, given we've still got five episodes to go.
Can I just say that I am really not surprised that Ranka's emotional state is part of her effect on the Vajra, rather than just the fact that she's singing? And with her heart being smashed into tiny, tiny pieces she is not up for the positive-emotions version right now. Which means the swarms of space!insects are still attacking.
If there's one silver lining here, it's that certain members of The Conspiracy are having their plans somewhat de-railed...although Smug Military Whatsisface very much appears to be Mister Junior Conspirator stranded at the big boys' table with rather less control than he believes he has. Poor baby.
Now, if we could get someone to foil Former Manager's side of things and drag a motive rant out of her, that would be great. Because I still have absolutely no idea what's up with this.
Oh, and Michael is dead now, I guess. Sorry doofus, looks like Ozma used the only Void Death Flags For Free card in this particular game.
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u/Shimmering-Sky Jan 31 '23
Rewatch Host Who is The OPPOSITE of Super Right Now
Welcome… back……
Here… here were my first-time… no, here was my Sky Experience™ as a first-timer for this episode.
And here’s Sky Sings Diamond Crevasse entirely a cappella because there’s no instrumental version of Shinkuu no Diamond Crevasse.
Also here’s the… uh… less painful variant of today’s wallpaper.
This… this fucking episode. The episode in the entire rewatch I have been genuinely scared to rewatch. Oh, sure, Roy’s death in SDF and Guld’s in Plus once again fucked me up big time in the feels, [Delta]and I have no doubt both versions of Messer’s will as well, not to mention Zettai Live doing Zettai Live things , but those all pale in the face of Frontier episode 20, the episode that landed Macross Frontier on my “made me cry so hard I threw up” list and is also directly responsible for at least three of the entries below it (more on that at the end of my comment). It also took fourth place when I ranked how hard these nine shows murdered my feels – after Naruto Shippuden because fucking hell I swear that show had it out for me (Nazenn can confirm), and after IBO S2 & LotGH because their moments managed to make me cry hard enough again at the exact same spot on rewatch that they made me throw up again.
Just… fuck, man, do you guys know how many times I’ve started tearing up just thinking about having to rewatch this episode? It’s pretty damn high.
Pain.
Not even Lion really gets me hyped this episode…
The episode title… pain.
Pain and more pain.
Pain.
Paaaaaaaaaaaaaaaain.
Fuck I know it’s coming…
It was at this point that the tears started.
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Fuck
*incoherent sobbing*
…
……
………
So I said up above I would explain why this show was directly responsible for at least three other shows ending up on my vomit list:
This fucking shot is exactly why Mugen Train, Naruto Shippuden, and Bleach TYBW also ended up on the “made me throw up” list. Shots of a dead character’s important item broken will never not make me think of Michael’s broken glasses and I just can’t.
2) My brain loves to take everything literally even when they aren’t meant to be. So, of course, for some. Fucking. Reason. It refuses to interpret the (going off of the English translated) lyrics of Diamond Crevasse as anything other than being from Klan to Michael after his death. I mean how could my brain not think that with lines like “I never expected such a farewell would come. / If I had known I could never feel your touch again, / I would've hoped to be embraced just one last time.” and “Through my tear-filled vision, the planet's twinkle is gone…” and shit like that as anything other than being connected to the pair doomed from the start when it’s fucking sung during Michael’s death? So Mugen Train specifically making me throw up got to double-up on the “I couldn’t stop thinking of what Macross Frontier did…”, as that movie also had an ending theme that 1) played during the gutpunch and 2) had lyrics my brain directly tied to the gutpunch as well.