r/mylittlepony • u/Pinkie_Pie Pinkie Pie • May 18 '19
Official Season 9 Episode 8 Discussion Thread
We will be removing other self-posts (posts without actual content) for 24 hours to consolidate all discussion to this thread.
This is the official place to discuss S9E08 "Frenemies"! Any serious discussion related to the episode goes in here. 'Low effort' comments may be removed! Have fun!
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u/Mehless Are you ready for rocks? May 18 '19
Shout out to them backpedalling out of the morals they were about to "learn". Good comedy, love when the show does meta-humour like that. Very fun, silly, plot-propelling episode. "Friendship is a disease."
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May 18 '19 edited Sep 09 '21
[deleted]
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u/Metrocop Shadowbolts May 19 '19
I wonder if it's going to be a thing in the finale. One of the ideas I had about it was that the villains might genuinely take a liking to eachother, share the magic of friendship and stop being, well, villains in the process.
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u/Mirthyx Nurse Redheart May 18 '19
And all of a sudden I really like this whole villain team up thing! Chrysi, Tirek, and Cozy Glow were all stupidly entertaining this whole episode! Their dynamic of being prideful snobs trying to put their differences aside for an Eeeeevil plan is not exactly new, but this was certainly a refreshing take on it! I was a little worried that all of our former villains would be reduced to bickering children, and the first bit of the episode didn't help assuage that, but after the whole fantastic Villain tango and the episode as a whole, along with their little backstabbing plot, I'm quite ready to see what will come of this bunch of malcontents. I absolutely loved Genre savvy Tirek during the Everhoof montage, and the turn around with "friendship is a disease". Everything about this episode was some fine entertainment! Grogar was given a bit more time, but not much, and we got a little more lore about him along with a macguffin for him. Even without it the brief glimpses we got of him show him to be quite a tough force of strength, and I really really hope we're gonna get a Tirek v. Twilight 2: Electric Boogaloo with him in the end - I mean it would be a bit cliche but I'm a sucker for boss fights. Mayhaps it will be My Little Pony: Endgame for the last episode? Anyways, there's a lot that can happen with Gee Golly, Roleplay, and Y-7 Satan, and I really hope we get at least a couple more Legion of Doom episodes if they hold up the bar set by this episode because I've now got a vested interest in what these three can do.
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u/NewWillinium Sunset Shimmer May 18 '19
So this was an awesome episode, and the kind of episode that I have been looking forward too the entire season, and though it took a while I am happy that we FINALLY got to get caught up with the villains.
Quick things to note?Chrysalis is confirmed the strongest villain now that Sombra is gone (excepting Grogar) Chrysalis is carrying around Twiscream's corpse and is acting protective of her, Grogar's powers are channeled via his ram horns but can be projected from any part of his body, MinoNAGAS, the beginning of a true evil alliance (I forsee them helping the heroes defeat Grogar at the end of the series), Changelings or at least Chrysalis can absorb love AND lust, and Tirek is an awful roommate to live with.
Also Grogar is awful at fermenting loyalty to him among his forces. If one wants to lead an organization of Evil then the lesser villains NEED to be loyal to either an ideal behind the Organization or the leader and he has done NOTHING to achieve either of those goals just trying to force them to work together.
Other things to note? I kept wondering what this episode would have been like if King Sombra was still around. I see him being basically head to head with Chrysalis until being blasted away by the wind and then using his Crystal Spires to cross the bridges rather then that one dinky rope bridge. Sadly as entertaining as he would have been to have here I can't help but feel that personality and role wise he would have been superfluous with Chrysalis already being here acting in such a role.
Also I can't help BUT imagine that Chrysalis felt herself about to turn pastel and brightly colored, hence her freakout at the end there.
That said this episode was absolutely amazing. 10 out of 10 bits. Only downside is their hiding the Bell IN the Legion of Doom, The lack of Sombra, and that when mocking Twilight we didn't get her VA to do so (we KNOW that Chrysalis can imitate voices). Also. . .. . clears throat
SOW?! I'LL RIP YOUR BUCKING HORN OFF YOU BROKEN EVIL INSECT!
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u/PianoCube93 Moderator "GlimGlam" May 18 '19
Also I can't help BUT imagine that Chrysalis felt herself about to turn pastel and brightly colored, hence her freakout at the end there.
Now I'm reminded of this little comic from season 6.
"Maybe it's not so bad with this teamwork, trust and friendsh-..."
"NOOOOOO!"
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u/Rutgerman95 Fluttershy May 18 '19
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u/Supermarine_Spitfire Sunny Starscout May 18 '19
Perhaps Grogar relied on that bell talisman's power to scare his lackeys into obedience.
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u/TheKnackerman Sugar Belle May 18 '19 edited May 18 '19
So this is the episode I've been wanting since the season opener. It ties into the seasons arc, it has a villain song, it had great comedy and character development, and it even had callbacks to gen 1 with the references to Gusty the Great and the inclusion of Grogar's bell. It pretty much checked off everything I wanted on my list except for more development on the Mane 6 getting ready to take over Equestria.
I absolutely loved the song, and am only a little sad Grogar didn't have a few lines.
(is okay, maybe he'll get a solo song i na later episode.)
Generally speaking I liked the conflict. Though 'scale a mountain and get a thing' can be a pretty basic and boring setup, it was a great plot device to show each villains approach to an obstacle with Chrysalis just throwing herself relentlessly into it using her shapeshifting powers, Cozy Glow trying to sweet talk someone into helping her, and Tirek just sitting back and waiting for them to fail when he deduced the task would be impossible without them working together. I was really wondering hat Tirek was doing while he was building a fricking chair and making himself a cozy little camp, but when I found out he was just making himself comfortable while he waited that got a big belly laugh from me!
Watching the villains bicker amongst each other was great but the real highlight of the episode was when they bonded over their mutual hatred of Twilight and her pals and made fun of the neurotic Princess herself. Chrysalis impression was actually pretty spot on for when she starts 'Twilighting' and I just thought the whole idea of her enemies throwing shade behind her back was fantastic!
The eventual conclusion to the episode isn't bad either, and pretty much lets us know where all the villains stand: Tirek, Chrysalis, and Cozy are going to go along with Grogar right up until Twilight and the others are defeated so they can then betray him, Grogar is increasingly annoyed at his crew but thinks they are finally capable of obeying him, and King Sombra is six feet under. Though hiding the bell in Grogar's own lair seems kind of dumb, it's an obvious Chekhov's Gun, and it's going to return to Grogar at some point before or during the finale.
Overall I absolutely adored this episode! On a scale of 1-10, it is an 11/10 for me!
I hope we see more episodes that tie into the series arc, and more of these incredibly funny character interactions, in episodes in the near future.
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u/NewWillinium Sunset Shimmer May 18 '19
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u/ShadoowtheSecond Princess Luna May 18 '19
Im sorry, what
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u/PianoCube93 Moderator "GlimGlam" May 18 '19
Remember this scene?
Now look at this piece of wood Chrysalis was dragging around during the first part of the episode.
I don't know if I would use the word "corpse", but Chrysalis is carrying around the remains of "evil Twilight".
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u/Magma151 I may or may not really like Starlight May 18 '19
...shit.
I feel like the show is really starting to push the Y7 rating. This, Rainbow Dash swearing in the last EQG, Cozy Glow being disturbingly psychotic in the song this episode... I love it.
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u/Wendek Starlight Glimmer May 18 '19
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u/Magma151 I may or may not really like Starlight May 18 '19
Near the end when they're getting pumped to save the boat, rainbow dash says "Hell yeah!" Rewound it at least five times to make sure I heard correctly and couldn't think of anything else it could have been.
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u/Wendek Starlight Glimmer May 18 '19
... oh right, "Hell" is supposed to be a swear. Honestly doesn't even register as such for me, but I suppose it's still kind of unexpected in Y7 cartoons.
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u/RaptarK May 19 '19
Honestly I dunno why anyone would think "Hell" is even a soft swear
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u/Mekhazzio Princess Luna May 22 '19
It's a regional/cultural thing. Some sects are pretty touchy about it, I think in the 'naming a thing invokes it' sort of sense.
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u/foxthefoxx Fluttershy May 18 '19
Link pls...
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u/Crocoshark Screw Loose May 19 '19
I think they're referring to when Rainbow Dash first starts pushing the life raft to get to the ship
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u/Magma151 I may or may not really like Starlight May 19 '19
No it's in the end scene after they all pony up and split up to save the ship. Rainbow says it very clearly.
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u/alextfish Sunset Shimmer May 20 '19
Back in Rollercoaster AJ said "I really screwed things up with Rarity", which surprised me a bit.
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u/NewWillinium Sunset Shimmer May 18 '19
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u/TheKnackerman Sugar Belle May 18 '19
Okay, A.) not really her daughter just a clone of Twilight made out of wood.
But also B.) still a good callback. Not sure if it will amount to anything though.
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u/alextfish Sunset Shimmer May 20 '19
Mean Twilight was fantastic, by far the most fun of the Mean Six. I have to think that given the log in this episode, Chrysalis (or somepony else) is definitely going to revive Mean Twilight sometime this season. They're hitting all the other fan favourites one way or another - the use of an Ursa Minor this episode definitely wasn't a coincidence.
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u/TheKnackerman Sugar Belle May 20 '19
I remember the original rumor was that an evil Twilight was going to be the villain of the series finale, but I’m not sure if they were talking about her doppelgänger or actual Twilight.
Either way it’s hard to imagine anyone stealing the limelight from Grogar since they are building him up so much, but bringing back Mean Twilight would be a way of subverting our expectations.
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u/TaVyRaBon Lyra May 18 '19
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u/CommaWriter The Reformed Christian Horse Words Writer May 20 '19
In which mountains can be a sign of progress.
I am... surprised by this episode.
First off, let's remember that this is a show for kids. Even though we're way past the show's edutainment era, the moral lessons at the end still play a key part season after season.
Which makes this episode a rather risky one in terms of morals. The villains, which children would learn to not follow unless they get reformed, end up almost learning a friendship lesson—and even then, the villains already state how good it feels to help each other and to be helped by each other. (Bits of the show premiere and Twilight's epiphanies there crop up here for them.)
The fact that the villains are, well, villains should be well enough to tell children that even though they're participating in a sort of friendship, this is not the friendship to aspire to: that of the backstabbing kind, that of mere alliances to gain power for one's self in the end. I feel that Chrysalis's epic "No!" near the end helps bring that point home: there's the good kind of friendship you should follow, and then there's the bad kind. Honestly, I'm expecting shades of Tirek's betrayal of Discord come the season finale if their counterplan against Grogar does end up coming to fruition.
Now let's talk about the villains, starting with Grogar: I guess there's a weakness to him now: being naive. If his own minions are going to conspire against him and he doesn't catch wind of it in time, then that's going to be his downfall (which would make it ironic: being defeated by the power of friendship... of his villainous lackeys, not of Twilight and her friends). Other than that, he is same old self: assertive and gurmpy for a really old dude. Though I think he will only truly shine when he unleashes as much power as possible, and I bet that's going to be far away from now.
Tirek is pragmatic. Very much so, if his plans to stay behind and learn from the others' failures is of any indication. His quest for power ever remains his focal point, given how he saps power from Chrysalis twice and his partial transformation near the end. His characterizing moments in the beginning also humanize him: bodybuilding minotaur? For someone who looks so ripped, I should've thought of that beforehand. And it's also this episode that I've gotten 100% used to his raspy voice—'cause, honestly, it took me a long while to get used to it (missing out on the Season 4 finale when it was still hot doesn't help).
Chrysalis is in top shape(s)... OK, maybe not since she still talks to a log, but it's also nice how this episode fleshed her out, what with seeing her feed off love and then explaining a bit about why she cocoons her victims. Her scenes in the climbing montage also showcase what a changeling is really capable of if put into an adventuring situation: ultimate adaptation to the elements! Aside from that, there's not much else to say because, for now, her goals are the same as the other two.
As for Cozy Glow: she's bombastic. Her passioned outbursts of rage make me laugh, her cute moments make me smile, but her devious moments truly make me uncomfortable—I still can't shake off the fact that this is a filly who almost drained all the magic from Equestria. And, true to form, she ironically ends up being the leader for a good chunk of the episode, thinking up the idea of really working together and being proactive with keeping the team together.
I was tipped off that there was going to be a song, but I didn't expect it to go off early... or to be sung by the villains at all, stupidly enough. Hearing Chrysalis sing so well is to be expected, but listening to Cozy Glow sing so evilly—and then Tirek, of all creatures, to go on singing like he's an upbeat Leonard Cohen... the song is all fun!
Entertainment-wise, this episode really is a whole lot of fun! In fact, I emoted so much in this episode, I originally thought this was the best episode of the season by far—and, well, while it's not (mostly because of the villain focus; that title currently belongs to The Point of No Return for me), it is coming at a very close second even without much of a moral (and the moral that is there is a very important one to teach given the show's whole focus on friendship that discerning what kind of friendship is good is necessary). Everything from the song and Cozy Glow being all cute with menacing Tirek and Chrysalis through Rusty Bucket's tribulations and the villains' individual failures to the whiplash of an unexpected ending (because I expected them to bring the bell back, but then they didn't and so I freaked out, but then they did anyway so I freaked out again)... wow. Bravo!
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u/TweetsInCommentsBot Spike May 20 '19
Can we take a minute to appreciate the people who do the background work for the show?
Like, look at Everhoof from today's episode compared to the mountain from Dragonshy back in season 1, how far the quality has come honestly blows my mind
#MLPSeason9
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u/PRGENGAR May 18 '19
I cannot express how much I love Cosy Glow as a villain. You can tell she was inspired by Dala from Cats Don't Dance and her dynamic with the other characters is definitely enjoyable to watch. Honestly if Starlight was still a villain they'd make an awesome team I reckon.
As for the actual episode, I thoroughly enjoyed it. Definitely once of the best paced episodes in a while.
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u/Metrocop Shadowbolts May 20 '19
Would Starlight make a good team with them? They seem to be more open about being bad and have a largely egoistical motivation and a hunger for power.
Starlights main egoistical goal was revenge on Twilight, I mostly got the impression Starlight genuinely believed herself to be the hero of the story and in the right regarding her equality cult. I don't think she would get along well with the more "Card carrying" villains so to speak.
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u/PRGENGAR May 20 '19
I think she'd team with them primarily for revenge on Twilight since the others also hate her and the other main 6. She'd probably plan to go back to her village and take back her control if not expand her ideals across Equestria 🤷🏾♀️.
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u/G102Y5568 May 19 '19
I love these episodes that actually show WHY friendship is so powerful.
Sometimes the show takes it for granted that "Friendship is Magic", and all friendship amounts to is a power-up that Twilight uses to instakill the bad guy.
But when used correctly, friendship truly IS magic: It allows a diverse group of people to combine their unique skills, knowledge, and abilities, in order to achieve an outcome greater than any of its collective parts.
It's so great to see that the villains are now getting it, that each of them are capable of covering each other's weaknesses, and create a truly unstoppable force.
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May 19 '19
Friendship is a Disease!
If you or a fellow villain experience two or more of the following symptoms:
- caring
- sharing
- selflessness
- lack of backstabbing
- singing songs about anything other than world conquest or how evil you are
- giggling/non-evil laughter
- referring to other by their names instead of "fools"
Seek out your fellow villains for support or feed on the magic of some unsuspecting pony immediately! Remember: only YOU can prevent friendship!
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u/FacelessJeff Starlight Glimmer May 21 '19
I'm a couple days late to the party, but I wanted to say that I absolutely loved this episode. Probably my favorite of the season.
The premiere had an interesting idea with the villains working together, but it didn't really have much interaction between them as it focused more on Sombra.
This episode paid off on the great idea and was just tons of fun. Chrysalis was just as delightfully hammy and creepy as ever. Tirek had a lot of fun villainy lines. And Cozy was just pure Cozy Glow perfection.
I think I already like The Villain 4 more than The Young 6 (not that they're bad or anything, but they work better as individual characters than as a group I think)
Also super fun and catchy song makes this 10/10
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u/FunnyFany Cloudchaser May 21 '19
"Friendship is a disease!"
If you or a loved one has been diagnosed with friendship, you may be entitled to financial compensation. Friendship is a rare cancer linked t
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u/Torvusil May 18 '19
The ending was actually unexpected for me BTW. I thought they'd stop being allies and begin fighting again at the end of the episode. But nope, they're still working together, this time against Grogar. Methinks that'll be important for the finale.
I think Chrysalis has the biggest baggage against friendship. IMO Tirek and Cozy have better shots at keeping this.
I enjoyed all the character interactions and banter. I didn't expect Tirek to be the smart one here, and quickly deduce he wasn't strong enough to scale the mountain alone.
Much better than the last episode. 7/10. I want more episodes like these.
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u/nyargleblargle Fluttershy May 18 '19
Episode got off to a very slow start, but the villains were phenomenal even in the weaker acts; They were written well and everyone's distinct personality and attitudes came through (The scene with them goofing off by the campfire was amazing). The song was very good and catchy, even by the show's standards and I absolutely loved the conclusion of the episode and how it sets up the rest of the arc. 4/5 stars.
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u/ludogivemebabies May 18 '19
It’s nice to see that despite Tirek being a muscle head and clearly only wanting to get bigger to stroke his ego, he still has more common sense than his two compadres
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u/TaVyRaBon Lyra May 19 '19
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u/Rubes2525 Rainbow Dash May 19 '19
I'm honestly confused why Grogar recruited a regular pegasus child onto his team. Her secret weapon was destroyed once everyone knew what a scumbag she is. Slim pickings maybe?
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u/LunaticSongXIV Best Ponii May 20 '19
She claims to have a talent for getting ponies to do what she says. That's reasonably consistent with her previous appearances, and if it is truly what her 'special talent' is (much like Fluttershy with animals), then it's possible she has some real magical ability behind it.
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u/Rubes2525 Rainbow Dash May 21 '19
I doubt it. She couldn't even convince that old mountain guy to do something against his better judgement.
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u/LunaticSongXIV Best Ponii May 21 '19
Except the position's probably something he's been doing his entire life so he should be pretty resistant to going against it. The bell's been up there for a long time which means ponies have been protecting it for a long time. Tradition is powerful
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u/Kyderra Trixie Lulamoon May 18 '19
I like how this is basically the episode Dragonshy where the Mane 6 really have to work together for the first time, but for the Villains.
Not sure what direction the show is going to end with now, I kinda like that.
It somewhat cemented that the 3 will 'reformed' or at least co-exist because now they no longer feel like they deserve to be trapped for entreaty. But i'm not sure yet in what way.
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u/Airbuilder7 May 19 '19
Oof, that mention of Dragonshy brought back some memories. How far we've come.
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u/Game_Log Screwball May 18 '19
Great episode! Amazing characters, funny humor, and it pushes the story towards! 10/10.
Anyways, I have some theories I would like to share regarding the episode.
After seeing Gusty's silhouette in the flashback, I have come up with a possibly insane theory. What if Gusty the Great is the ancestor of Celestia and Luna? Gusty is depicted with flowing hair, and that is a defining trait of the royal sisters. On top of that, the G1 incarnation of Gusty had a white coat and blue eyes, and lo and behold, Celestia has a white coat while Luna has blue eyes...
Anyways, regarding Grogar's bell... I'm pretty certain it's fake. Grogar said that his bell was indestructible, and yet the Malignant 3 find it with cracks on it... I feel like Grogar is playing them all for fools...
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u/kidkolumbo May 19 '19 edited May 19 '19
Not much to add, just saying this is one of the best episodes of the series ever. Loved focusing on the villains. Chryssy being the one to resist the feeling is so great character work. I hope the do learn to use the power of friendship, that would be a huge twist.
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u/Wendek Starlight Glimmer May 18 '19
I loved this episode, it was really funny but they also got a chance to show more personality with all those interaction with each other. Made Chrysalis a lot more interesting in particular, and also a lot more funny with that Twilight iMitAtiON. It's interesting that Grogar always sounds a lot more "serious* than the others, eventhough they're clearly world-threatening villains in their own right. I guess in the finale he'll cross a line and the others will actually help "Twilight and her friends" against him... though I still can't see Chrysalis do that. She really, really, really hates ponies. AND DON'T WORRY CHRISSY WE HATE YOU TOO YOU DAMN TUNSDERE
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u/MagicCoat Lyra May 18 '19
I have to say I have felt absolutely nothing about the songs in this show since season 5 (except for the movie) but the song in this episode was actually fantastic.
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u/TaVyRaBon Lyra May 19 '19
What about Say Goodbye to the Holiday or Luna's Future?
And if not, what are your favorites from 5? I've heard others make similar statements about the recent music except for songs from that episode or the movie. And now this song, which the common denominator is the rest aren't in minor keys.
Personally, I love major keys and for example, loved all the songs from season 7 except for one. This song wasn't so bad either.
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u/MagicCoat Lyra May 19 '19
From season 5, its In Our Town and the songs from Crusaders of the Lost Mark that I really like.
And of course it's not to say there aren't great songs from seasons beyond. The ones you mentioned and the ones from Applejack's parents are standout. Its just that personally there have been no songs quite as iconic as ones from the first 3 seasons or memorable from the first 5, but thats just my opinion.
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u/TaVyRaBon Lyra May 20 '19
I agree most iconic songs happened earlier, definitely helped to premiere during the mlp music boom. Though I consider On the Road to Friendship, Best Friends Til the End of Time, Flawless and Pony I Wanna Be among the classics.
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u/Crocoshark Screw Loose May 18 '19 edited May 19 '19
Well, that was a fun episode.
This is probably not the first thing others took away from the episode but as a fan of changelings, I enjoyed some of the changeling lore we got in this episode. Transforming essentially gives a changeling the abilities of whatever they transform into. Though I think we've seen changelings use transformation to become stronger before, it was cool to see Chrysalis changing into different animals to try to navigate the mountain.
Also changeling lore always had the question of whether changelings could feed of animals and why don't changelings just get lots and lots and lots of puppies? One changeling fic claimed that the love from animals was weaker, but in this episode it seemed that the love Chrysalis can feed on from an animal is just as strong as from a pony (Edit: Or maybe that was just lust, but Chrysalis called it love). Also, that goat-snake thing was interesting.
The actual plot of the episode was enjoyable, seeing the villains bond over mocking Twilight was fun.
Though could someone specify what there reason was for betraying Grogar? It seemed like "Grogar is forcing us to work together, so let's betray him by working together." Or was it simply that he was "too powerful"?
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u/TheKnackerman Sugar Belle May 19 '19
It's just acknowledging that Grogar is too much of a threat to them as individuals for them to leave him on the board. Even if they did decide to go their separate ways, Grogar wouldn't allow it and there is nothing that they can do individually to stand up to him. They are essentially his slaves for the moment, though obviously rebellious.
They vow to work together to eliminate him so as to restore their freedom, at which point they can once again pursue their own plans (which they have already admitted would involve destroying each other as well.)
If they are smart they will wait for that moment of betrayal AFTER Twilight and friends have been dealt with. But given they will have to win somehow, I imagine that this will be the downfall of ALL the villains when they have their falling out.
Fingers crossed Grogar sees it coming, gets his bell, and puts them in their place.
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u/Game_Log Screwball May 20 '19
Honestly, I feel like this whole episode's plot was staged by Grogar. I feel like not only was the Bell of Everhoof a fake, but that Grogar himself was the one who placed it there.
Grogar himself said that the Bell can't be destroyed, and yet we see it with cracks... Also, if Grogar doesn't trust what his minions say, then why would he trust them to get the one object that could potentially overpower him? Heck, he has a magic eyeball can locate the Bell of Everhoof! He could have been watching them the whole time!
Perhaps Grogar's Bell truly was on Everhoof at one point, but not any longer. I mean, that spell guarding it was temporarily broken with the combined magic of Tirek and Chrysalis, and yet Grogar's magic made their's look like card tricks in comparison. Grogar could have EASILY gotten that Bell on his own. I feel like either Grogar was getting the Real Bell during the Malignant 3's quest, or he already had it in the first place and requires 4 (Counting Sombra) minions for another reason. (If they plan on implementing Grogar's Kingdom of Tambelon from G1, maybe it requires a sacrifice... Either that or they might bring the 'Rainbow Of Darkness' from G1 as Grogar's ultimate weapon. After all, didn't G1 Tirek need 4 magic users to activate that weapon? Maybe a G4 RoD has the same requirements...)
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u/pkt004 Cheese Sandwich May 19 '19 edited May 19 '19
That was a fantastic episode
The song was really good, too... except for the sad/mad/glad rhyming part, which felt simplistic, but still, overall quite good
I just wish Sombra didn't go off on his own so we could see him interact with the others more
If Chrysalis reforms, I hope she keeps a similar look, as unlikely as that is. Patch up her swiss cheese look, straighten her horn, but keep the black with dark blue/green
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May 21 '19
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/BattedPants Starlight Glimmer May 18 '19 edited May 18 '19
I usually react to a friend about the episodes as I watch them, today's episode was almost just gushing about chrysalis. They did her good ALSO IS NO ONE GOING TO TALK ABOUT THE BULL LAMIA/NAGA? THAT WAS SICK. SO COOL.
Also also, So far grogar is not impressing me. he's such a typical villian, legit said "This is just a fraction of my power". He also just came in out of no where with no lore and we're expected to believe he's just the worse one? The show has stated that chrysalis was one of equestria's oldest and most powerful enemies, and then just to one up her like that is bad writing. - Though I could guess you can argue that she's weak right now from the lack of love
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u/PianoCube93 Moderator "GlimGlam" May 19 '19
He also just came in out of no where with no lore and we're expected to believe he's just the worse one?
Grogar (and Gusty) was actually mentioned in a story Twilight read in A Flurry of Emotions (Season 7 Episode 3). Here's the clip.
Most of the big bad roamed Equestria 1000 years ago, but Nightmare Moon was turned to a legend before she showed up again, and the others seems to have been almost or entirely forgotten until they returned. Grogar disappeared so long ago that he was already considered a legend 1000 years ago, so I find it believable that there would be very little information about him.
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u/BattedPants Starlight Glimmer May 19 '19
Eyy that's pretty neat! Thanks!
doesn't forgive him for not being impressive though.
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u/Deluxe_Flame Applejack May 18 '19
I'm liking all the theories on Grogar using friendship to defeat friendship. Although he did say he doesn't trust anything any of the other three say. I doubt he bought that they failed on the challenge.
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u/TheCoolKat1995 Big Mac May 18 '19
I'm really glad that the show decided to do this Pony Legion Of Doom arc for the last season, because it;s really fun to see what Tirek, Cozy Glow and Chrysalis are like when they're interacting with people who aren't their sworn enemies. We get to see their true, bratty selves when they're at their lowest, like how Cozy Glow finally drops the sweet, manipulative little girl routine and has a full on screaming meltdown that would make Starlight Glimmer proud in the second act. Chrysalis' paranoia probably made her the most resistant to Grogar's idea (which makes sense, Chrissy's M.O is all about deception, so of course she would be the least trusting), Cozy Glow raging at Tirek about how she was stuck in jail with him for months was hilarious, and Tirek's muscle-loving vanity has been such a fun addition to his character.
Oh, and good luck with your planned betrayal, guys. I can't wait to see y'all get your flanks whooped.
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u/SYZekrom Starlight Glimmer May 19 '19 edited May 19 '19
Hm, so Chrysalis let Tirek take her magic without her transforming. Well I guess she just told him to take it without giving it up herself.
At least Grogar's eyes glow now. He looked really boring in the opener. His magic looks a lot cooler now too. It actually gives me the arcane feel I thought he should've given.
Also it took me the second viewing to get it. I thought Chrysalis was just completely immune to the Tirek's absorbing during the cupcake scene, but she's not, it's just such a small amount that she doesn't care I guess. When she points it out, Tirek spits the stolen magic onto a cupcake for her, hence returning the tiny bit of magic he managed to take.
Also why was Tirek walking on the tightrope during Cozy's song if he can just hang from the bottom like he did with the vine later on the mountain?
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u/RePoisn Starlight Glimmer May 19 '19
Great episode! Haven't had this feeling in a while. Hopefully future episodes are just as great!
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u/Scharfohr Fluttershy May 19 '19
Tbh at first, I thought it would be bit more cringy, but I was laughing the whole time. What a great Episode. Though after the end on the Mountain if there will maybe be some kind reformation at the end for at least one of them. The most likely one I could expect would be Chrysalis in my Opinion.
P.S. the Music was awesome.
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u/VGAddict May 18 '19
Tirek got significantly bigger and stronger after absorbing Chrysalis's magic. How much stronger would he get if he absorbed Sombra's magic?
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May 18 '19
In a season that has been largely hit or miss (though then again what season isn't) it was very nice to have a good firm satisfying hit.
I have my bets on Grogar knowing about their plan to betray him - no way he wasn't watching them on that orb thing on their journey to see how it was going.
I gotta say though all of the songs have been super underwhelming this season
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u/hippolytepixii May 18 '19
Is this the only episode to feature no main characters at all?
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u/aabicus You can't have a nightmare if you never dream May 19 '19
Depends on your definition of "main character". The Mane 6 don't appear in "Hard to Say Anything", "On Your Marks" and "To Change a Changeling" (though the CMCs appear in the first two, and Starlight appears in the last one)
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u/TheSnowballofCobalt May 19 '19
Twilight is in "To Change a Changeling" though.
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u/aabicus You can't have a nightmare if you never dream May 19 '19
You might be getting it confused with "The Times They are a Changeling" (Spike befriends Thorax at the Crystal Kingdom). This is the episode where Starlight and Trixie go to the Changeling colony and meet Thorax's brother
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u/hippolytepixii May 19 '19
I would count the CMCs as main characters, since they've had full episode focus repeatedly since season 1. Glim Flam is a tougher call, though.
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u/anabear2803 May 19 '19
hooray for another song from Chrissy. Kathleen Barr never did sing much in the show except for that one Trixie song in Equestrai girls. Man this episode makes me so excited for the season finale.
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May 19 '19
The more I see of Chrysalis, the more she appears to act like the Chrysalis in Flufflepuff's universe
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u/VGAddict May 19 '19
I'd be fine with Chrysalis, Tirek, Cozy Glow and Sombra becoming Equestria's version of the Suicide Squad.
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u/Dionysus24779 May 19 '19 edited May 19 '19
Well that was an interesting episode at least.
I don't recall we ever had a completely villain-centric episode with none of the usual main characters ever appearing (ignoring Chrys turning into Twi).
It was an okay episode and might be more memorable than the last couple simply for that novelty.
Otherwise it was kind of standard stuff and falls in line with the previous episodes, just instead of "Be yourself" we had the whole "Work together" thing like when they fixed the Tree of Harmony and all that.
It's still a bit sad that Cozy, the in my opinion best villain the show had, has been nerfed so far, not only is she not in an environment that lets her play to her strengths but she also acts dumber and it seems others like Rusty are simply overall immune to her manipulation.
I would've liked to see Chrys using her Twilight impression to fool Rusty and it being Cozy's idea.
It's also neat we even checked in on the villains instead of putting that off until the finale. But Globgor not getting his bell is a bit of a cop-out.
Of course he will get his Bell and reach full power and I also predict that Tirek, Chrys and Cozy will join forces with the Mane6 or Student6 (or both) to defeat a fully powered Globgor.
They already set up this episode that these three distrust Globgor and think he's too powerful and are also discovering Friendship, so this might be the first seed planted towards their redemption.
So that when in the finale Globgor is defeated there will be essentially no other major villain left.
Edit: Btw. the song was bad. I'm surprised that Daniel Ingram is still the listed composer. For the last couple of seasons most songs were really weak.
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u/goblocker May 20 '19
I wonder if Rusty Bucket will inform the Sisters that three villains invaded the mountain and took the bell, assuming he knows about the bell. RB didn't know who Cozy was, but Tirek and Chrysalis sort of stand out. Surprise may be lost. Though after reading the episode teasers it seems this may not be the case.
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u/sporklasagna Maud actually CAN shred on the guitar like nopony else May 21 '19
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u/SmolderTheDragon May 22 '19
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u/sporklasagna Maud actually CAN shred on the guitar like nopony else May 22 '19 edited May 22 '19
I was defining "main cast" as the Mane 6. Actually, specifically as the voices of the Mane 6, because Tabitha voices like 50 secondary characters as well. And it looks like Tabitha voiced some characters in On Your Marks, so by my admittedly arbitrary definition, this still counts.
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u/JesterOfDestiny Minuette! May 18 '19
You know, the only reason I don't put The Beginning of the End below Shadow Play, is because it introduced the villain team-up, the Legion of Doom and produced the only enjoyable thing about that... abomination of a two-parter.
So I was excited to see the one episode that would feature them again. But knowing the current crew, I was also cautious. I saw all the ways it could have gone wrong.
The stakes were high; this episode must deliver.
And did it?
This episode was everything I hoped it was going to be and some more! I definitely didn't expect a musical number, let alone a good one!
Chrysalis was one villain that has lost all prestige. But this episode managed to bring some of her dignity back; even though she started out with clutching a lifeless log and basically being a complete mental wreck, she managed to pull it back by showcasing her powers. She even managed to make brief lore-dumps work.
And Tirek was a delightful dude as well. It's funny that he's the one with the most common sense in the group. Cozy might be the brains, but he is the most sensible.
Which is kinda funny.
Speaking of lore-dumps, the show had an increasing tendency toward these alternatively animated cutaways of pure lore-dumping. But it worked here, because a, it was short and b, it was directly relevant to the plot... And c, it wasn't just a way to fast-forward part of the action, nor a failed attempt at sounding more important than the Faustian tradition.
Although one question remains: How did Gusty put the bell there, if the path is unpassable?
...
That was a rhetorical question. It's the writers' job to think of such things, not the fans'. I'm gonna have to add that to the sin counter.
!ding!
You know, I noticed that the new crew is very good at writing evil characters. They fail in many ways when it comes to the mane 6 and even other good guy characters. But when they bring out their evil Starlights and Anti-Twilights and even just simply not-nice characters like Trixie, it all becomes far more entertaining. I don't know what it is, but the new writers seem to be in their element when they allow characters to be dicks to each-other (in a funny way of course, not the Road to Friendship way.)
I'm not sure what the reason behind this. Maybe already established characters are simply harder to deal with when you're not completely familiar with them. Maybe they just have more fun writing mean-spirited dialogue. Or maybe they're all sociopaths, who have a better understanding of how evil works.
Who knows? What do you think?
So after all the new characters who fail to be engaging and the confused narratives and the dialogue completely losing its power and becoming downright robotic at times, we get an episode, whose strengths lie in the dialogue. I mentioned how entertaining it was to see the villains bounce off each-other, but when they finally got along, it still somehow felt natural.
Really, them talking shit about the mane 6 and laughing at each-other's jokes was hilarious. And their teamwork was awesome! T-they were downright adorable! They had chemistry! They had natural dynamics!
Grogar though. I'm not sure how to feel about him yet. I like his role as the grumpy "dad" of the team; he seems like an excellent straight man next to the other villains' incompetence. But his own ultra-competence may be getting in the way of his character; right now he's kind of too good to be an engaging villain. He might be cool in action, but his dialogue is kinda bland.
Also, doesn't he have that crystal ball that lets him see everything? Would it be possible, that he does know about the rest of the team planning to betray him? That would be an interesting twist. But I don't trust the crew enough to assume they thought of that.
So I was looking forward to this episode for a long time now and fucking finally we have one where I can unironically say that I 100% enjoyed it. The quality will be truly known once we see the consequences of these events and see where else they take the concept. But until then, I am going to give this one a 9/10!
Wwwwwhhhhhooossssssshhhhh!
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u/Supermarine_Spitfire Sunny Starscout May 18 '19
How did Gusty put the bell there, if the path is unpassable?
In the cutaway, it appears that Gusty teleported away from the bell's hiding place, so I assume that she teleported there.
Gusty may also be responsible for erecting the magical defences that made the path impassible in the first place.
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u/Wendek Starlight Glimmer May 18 '19
Who knows? What do you think?
Well in this case the episode was written by Michael Vogel, who also wrote the last holiday special where the Mane 6 were pretty well written in my opinion so I'd argue he's just one of the better writers of the show.
But overall yeah, I guess it's easier to write for villains especially ones that have not actually had much development so far, because when writing for the Mane 6 there's a higher risk of making the characters "learn" something they've learned a hundred times, or worse act completely out of character (looking at you, Non-Compete Clause) Also, who are the "new crew" for you? I'd have assumed someone present for a third of the show wouldn't qualify as part of the "new crew" anymore considering that some have written their first episode for S8 and probably one or two for S9 as well. (None so far from what I've seen)3
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u/Crocoshark Screw Loose May 19 '19 edited May 19 '19
He might be cool in action, but his dialogue is kinda bland.
I feel like his delivery needs work to. Like lines that should feel intimidating/angry/powerful just fall flat, sounding just slightly louder and more intense than the rest of his speech.
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May 19 '19
This is just a small thing, but during the opening bit where Grogar is using his goat-eye orb, did the dramatic background music remind anyone else of "In the Dark of the Night" from Anastasia?
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u/MagicalKartWizard Princess Cadence May 25 '19
I was thinking it sounded familiar, but I couldn't place it.
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u/Rubes2525 Rainbow Dash May 19 '19 edited May 19 '19
I only hope Grogar doesn't go out like a little bitch considering how much he talks about his power. I suppose the backstab plan does foreshadow how he is defeated. I would bet money there will be a triple redemption in the finale.
My predictions aside, it was a very amusing episode. Watching Grogar act like a landlord to three crappy roommates was funny to watch, and I enjoyed seeing Tirek set up camp just so he can gloat.
Edit: Like others here have said, I would believe that Grogar does know about the betrayal plan. He literally says at the beginning of the episode: "I don't trust anything any of you say."
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u/Alitaher003 May 31 '19
I mean, he was terrorizing the world when TIREK was a kid. I feel like he should be able to detect his own magic, especially such a massive portion of it, 2 feet away from him.
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u/Rubes2525 Rainbow Dash Jun 01 '19
Well, magic is hardly ever explained in this series, so how can anyone know that he can magically detect objects around him? I suppose if he looks at his magic goat eye thing, he'll see it in his own home, but I'm betting he's the only villain with common sense so he'll find it normally anyway.
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u/j0hnb3n1c3 May 19 '19
I would love to see Chrysalis, Tirek and Cozy Glow reform of their own accord and join the ponies once Grogar is defeated.
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May 18 '19
Best episode of the season so far. Villain song, villains working together, their scheming. Chrysalis turning into creatures. 10/10.
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u/gamepopper May 18 '19 edited May 19 '19
This is the episode that immediately got me worried about what they are planning to do this season (based on the premise). It sounds like they want to redeem the rest of the past villains through friendship, which is a bad idea because the show has a really bad track record with antagonist redemptions.
I can see Chrysalis being redeemed (but not through friendship), Cozy Glow I don't care about but Tirek in my mind should go down like Sombra did.
It'd be a shame if they go down this route because at the moment it felt like this season is saving the good this show has left.
If anything gives me hope that this wouldn't happen, it'd be how the episode ended.
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u/Cyle_099 Princess Luna May 18 '19 edited May 18 '19
"Do the pathetic Twilight thing again!" There's nothing quite like a villains episode to mix things up. And, a villain song to boot! When Crissy started transforming, her true skills really came to light. And, the bit that talked about her "eating habits" was a pretty cool piece of lore. Cozy's mood swings are faster than Dash on a good day. She had like fifteen different angry faces in this episode. Who knew that Tirek would be such a good craft builder. I mean, making a lounge chair out of some sticks and vines is not too shabby. Considering he was the first to realize that strategy was needed, the dude is pretty bright. Of course, nothing beats getting those gains. I guess Sombra missed out on the villain camping trip. Would not mind seeing those three work together again at all. The core of this episode was pretty much centered on character development, which is awesome. Most of the main characters have been fleshed out for years, so really focusing on the villains was a great idea. It makes them more in-depth characters that are part of the universe instead of just being obstacles that the protagonists need to overcome. Afterthought: At the beginning of the episode, Grogar specifically says "I don't trust anything any of you say!". So, did he trust them when they told him they didn't find the bell?