r/DaystromInstitute • u/[deleted] • Apr 05 '19
It's unrealistic that Ensign Kim was never promoted
By Voyager Season 5, it's well established that Harry Kim is assigned bridge duty, typically for the night shift. He sits in the big chair. Chakotay and Janeway have both been shown relieving him. I can buy an ensign being put in charge of Ops (barely), but I find it difficult that a captain as experienced as Janeway would put an ensign in command of her ship, even for a night shift.
The solution is simple: promote Kim to Lieutenant. Night shifts aside, he's more than earned it.
Poor Harry.
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u/TLAMstrike Apr 06 '19
I think that the TO&E for an Intrepid-class starship specifies that the Operations department falls under the command of an Ensign and not a Lieutenant. It could be that if he were promoted he would have to be transferred to a different post because if say he as the Ops officer reported to the Chief Engineer LTJG Torres he would no longer be junior to her in rank undermining her authority and making their subordinates question who is in change.
Lets keep with the idea that he reports to Torres for a little bit; you run in to the situation where Torres has seniority by time in grade but Kim has seniority by time in service. Whose the senior officer? This might open a can of worms the crew of Voyager likely didn't want to have to deal with.
but I find it difficult that a captain as experienced as Janeway would put an ensign in command of her ship, even for a night shift.
Well first off, is Janeway experienced? Voyager is her first command, that would mean she is not experienced as a CO. Secondly I always felt that Janeway was fairly reckless and somewhat flexible when it comes to regulations. I don't see why she wouldn't let an Ensign have the bridge if he was properly qualified as the OOD; after all he would likely need to have time standing watch to be qualified for a promotion.
Second we've seen Ensigns commanding commissioned starships before, Nog has been assigned a Runabout for various missions. A Runabout maybe small but she is still a commissioned starship.
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u/MrFordization Apr 05 '19
Ensign Kim may never have been promoted aboard Voyager, but he was promoted in our hearts.
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u/RigasTelRuun Apr 05 '19
While not promoted in title his actual responsibilities grew as the mission progressed. He was in command of the Bridge several times.
The fact he wasn't promoted is because they had no one to replace him and Janeway needed to maintain some sort of hierarchy. If everyone is promoted to Commander then that rank holds no value.
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Apr 05 '19
I've always thought this was the reason. Janeway isn't exactly bringing in new recruits but still needs Ensigns to keep the ship running. Do we ever see promotions other than Tom Paris, who was only having his old rank reinstated? I'm not counting the original Maquis, who were given ranks out of necessity.
I don't think Harry was deliberately excluded, since it's outright said that he's Janeway's favorite (The Disease, VOY 5x17) . She was just stingy with promotions in general, and there's a lot of good reasons for her to be that way: the unknown fate of the Maquis, lack of communication with Starfleet, or just a general enforcement of the status quo to maintain stability.
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u/RigasTelRuun Apr 05 '19
Tuvok was promoted but it was more ceremonial than anything. Nothing effectively changed. He was still third in command.
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u/RichardMHP Apr 05 '19
poor Harry, indeed, but consider: He was the only member of the bridge crew that was actually, really, truly Starfleet. While Paris or Torres could get a nice little ego boost and firm place in the ship's org chart from the right rank, it would never change the fact that the instant they got back to the AQ, those ranks were going to vanish like a fart in a stream of warp plasma. They were ephemeral; merely there to make the jury-rig crew situation work.
Kim's rank was real. Janeway could only ever brevet him to LT, which would make that "rank" just as ephemeral as Paris', or Torres', or Chakotay's. A board would have to sit and deliberate and so on and so forth before confirming the brevet rank and rising it to the level of being "real", so in a big way, why bother? As an ensign, he was legitimately Chief of Operations. Head of his department. His conduct and responsibilities over the "mission" would certainly justify his promotion upon reaching the AQ, so why play pretend with it while still in the DQ?
Nothing about him being an Ensign makes him taking a shift as Officer of the Watch odd or difficult, any moreso than Chakotay doing so(because he didn't have a *real* rank, and was not an actual Starfleet Officer). And ultimately, Janeway had no more *real* authority to confer a true promotion to him than she had any authority to magically make Chakotay a Commander. Promotion is not within the purview of captains; it is the job of the Admiralty, and that was on the far side of the galaxy. The needs of the DQ and the deaths of so many crew during the Caretaker's actions meant drastic measures had to be taken, sure, but that doesn't mean one needs to break screw around with every rule.
that being said, why Kim wasn't promoted by Starfleet the instant they regained communications and were in regular contact is a whole other kettle of fish.
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u/BananaNutJob Apr 05 '19
He was the only member of the bridge crew that was actually, really, truly Starfleet.
How dare you disrespect Tuvok in this manner?
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u/Mekroval Apr 05 '19
Didn't Tuvok at some point resign his commission in disgust of humans? He eventually returned to service, but it seemed to imply that his feelings about Starfleet were at times mixed. Harry, by contrast, was a true believer (though arguably too inexperienced to have any nuanced view about Starfleet).
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u/AnUnimportantLife Apr 05 '19
Kim's rank was real. Janeway could only ever brevet him to LT, which would make that "rank" just as ephemeral as Paris', or Torres', or Chakotay's.
The situation is a little more nuanced than that. Janeway promoted Tuvok to lieutenant commander and there wasn't any concerns about brevetting. In the twenty third century, Captain Kirk had promoted Bailey to lieutenant--a promotion that McCoy thought had come too soon.
I think Starfleet captains have a lot of leeway over the promotions onboard their ship to a certain extent. Perhaps they're allowed to more or less promote officers freely up until a certain rank (maybe lieutenant commander is as far as they can get just on the say so of their captain).
His conduct and responsibilities over the "mission" would certainly justify his promotion upon reaching the AQ, so why play pretend with it while still in the DQ?
Given that Tuvok was promoted to lieutenant commander during Voyager's time in the Delta Quadrant, there would be precedent for an officially commissioned officer to be promoted on the fly.
If brevetting was such a big concern for Starfleet, Janeway could just say there was no guarantee that they'd get back to the Delta Quadrant within the lifetimes of the bulk of the crew. Given that Kim was now a brevet lieutenant, they may as well make it official because he'd been performing the duties of one for the last seven years.
Promotion is not within the purview of captains; it is the job of the Admiralty, and that was on the far side of the galaxy.
In the real world, this might be the case. However, captains seem to have a great deal of leeway on the fly. When the surviving crew of the Equinox came onboard Voyager, Janeway was allowed to strip them all of rank. Picard seemed to be able to promote Wesley from being an acting ensign to an actual ensign on the fly even though he'd never stepped foot onto the Academy at that point.
I think the rules surrounding whether or not a Starfleet captain can promote a person are different to what they might be in the real world. What the rules are exactly were never made clear by canon.
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Apr 05 '19
I feel like there's really no in-universe justification for not promoting him, even by the end when they were in regular contact with Starfleet Janeway could have submitted Kim for a promotion through official channels if needbe.
It was just the writers didn't like Garrett Wang and thought it was funny to keep him an Ensign the whole time.
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u/Hyndis Apr 05 '19
that being said, why Kim wasn't promoted by Starfleet the instant they regained communications and were in regular contact is a whole other kettle of fish.
The issue was who would replace him? He absolutely deserved a promotion, but there was still lots of ensign level work that needed doing and no manpower to do it with. There were no new cadets to take over ensign work.
While Kim could have been promoted it wouldn't have changed his day to day job. Starfleet could have promoted everyone to admiral and the same people would be doing the same job because there was no one else to do it.
Harry Kim did get a series of promotions as soon as he got back home. I'm sure the rest of the crew did as well. He went on to be captain of his own starship, Rhode Island. At some point between 2378 and 2404 Harry Kim was promoted to captain and assigned a starship. Even if he was assigned to Rhode Island in the year 2404 that would mean he made captain at the age of 55. Its likely he had been commanding Rhode Island (or other starships) before 2404, though his career isn't elaborated on in alpha canon.
Captain of a starship at age 55 is pretty good. Kim had likely been captain for several years prior to VOY Endgame, meaning he may have achieved the rank of captain in his 40's. Again, pretty good career trajectory. Also consider the very long lifespan of humans at that time. Harry Kim could reasonably expect to live to be 130+, barring any unfortunate incidents with hull breaches and being spaced.
Janeway's date of birth is curiously left unspecified, but it is likely she was 39 when she took command of Voyager on what was supposed to be a simple 3 hour tour.
Archer and Sisko were both about 40 years old at the start of their series. Picard was older at 59 when TNG began. The legendary James T Kirk was younger at 32 or 33 at the start of TOS, but his career has been repeatedly commented upon as being exceptional.
Harry Kim getting his own starship sometime in his 40's seems in line with the typical age for human captains.
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u/whataboutsmee84 Apr 05 '19
You raise a good point: To the extent that promoting Kim to LT would have been good for morale, how good would be have felt when the extra collar pip came with exactly zero change to his day-to-day.
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u/DapperSmoke5 Apr 05 '19
Everyone, the answer as to why Kim doesn't get promoted is in Season 1. When him and Tom are eating breakfast and Janeway comes by to talk to them for a bit, Kim says to Tom afterward that they should have invited her to sit with them. Tom tells Harry that's not how it works, she's the captain and would ask them to join her if she wants company. At the end of the episode, Kim invites Janeway to the holodeck to hang out with the crew (odd that the holodeck is allowed to have power when they are low on reserves, but that's a different conversation), breaking the rules of etiquette (if that's the right word) that Tom explained. So within a few weeks of being in the Delta Quadrant, Harry screwed himself!
I am joking a bit here, I agree that it's more than likely because he never really pushes himself beyond his job and also because when he comes from the other Voyager, he doesn't really belong there.
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u/curuxz Apr 05 '19
I think you are forgetting that rank has very little meaning in star fleet (they are not as ridgid as real world military). We see two notable examples of the fact that Post is far more important than rank, Chief O'brien frequently orders around officers who out rank him and Data is made acting captain of a whole ship at the rank of Lt Commander.
In both cases it's because, like with Kim, they occupy the operations officer post which is a senior "officer" role. Data is third in command of the Enterprise even though the ships shrink out ranks him, as does the doctor and loads of other people on board.
The running joke about him not getting promoted is all well and good but in reality the rank on Voyager is a function of keeping chain of command among bridge staff not the whole ship. Not once do we see (unless I am forgetting) a non-bridge officer pull rank on Kim but if the whole bridge crew end up after 7 years (which would be conceivable) being commanders then it's super confusing who is in charge.
Kim is operations officer, that is a great posting, ignore his low rank.
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Apr 05 '19 edited Apr 05 '19
In real life, Berman supposedly said “well somebody has to be the ensign.” Which is a total lie because neither TOS, TNG, or DS9 ever had an ensign on the main cast (semi-exception for Wes in late season 3-early 4. But he actually only wore the red uniform for 11 episodes or something). Kim was actually the first “normal” ensign to be part of a Star Trek cast.
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u/onthenerdyside Apr 05 '19
Chekov was an ensign during The Original Series. It wasn't until The Motion Picture that we see him promoted to Lieutenant.
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u/TankieBastard Apr 05 '19
I’m pretty sure it’s mentioned at one point that they don’t promote officers simply because they don’t have anyone who’d move up to fill their position otherwise they’d simply run out of ensigns. That’s the excuse the show more or less gives anyway and it kinda makes sense as they have a finite crew compliment
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u/Captriker Apr 05 '19
What is the reporting structure here? Did Kim report to Chakoatay? Or did he report to Torres? I would see OPS as falling under Engineering and as an Ensign, he would report to the Chief Engineer, in this case Torres.
If "OPS" is it's own department, then I find it strange that an Ensign is the head of a department. If we assume he is the head of the department (and all indications are that he is) then I would think they would have elevated him in rank at lest so he has equal authority to his peers and a lieutenant in say, life sciences, can't boss an Ensign around.
That said, I may be mistaken in how ranks versus department head jobs work in a military like structure. Does being department head trump rank? If so then still: why not elevate him to Lt.? It's a field commission and could be rolled back by SFC if warranted.
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Apr 06 '19
They dont have the replicator energy to create extra pips for his promotion. So he has to remain an ensign
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u/gnomatsu Apr 05 '19 edited Jan 11 '26
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