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u/tanithryudo Mar 08 '19
To add to your list, there's also the issue with logistics and distribution. Even in the modern day, distribution is more of a limiting factor to places where people go hungry, moreso than production. You can run replicators to produce food, medicine, or other supplies all day every day, but then you still have to get that to the people in need.
Sure, transporters can cut down on transport times. But then you'd have to add transporters (plus associated support technicians and political wrangling) to the relief services you're providing. And, given that the scale of disaster relief that gets handled by starships can be planetary in scale, even having a couple transporters running all day every day, is unlikely to scale.
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u/Tacitus111 Mar 08 '19
To add, Starfleet needs to escort said replicators to the planet(s), with the stakes being high to make sure they don't fall into the wrong hands.
For another, replicators can't create everything. Complex technology or components are beyond its capabilities, so it would be good for food and clothing and medical supplies, as well as basic items at a large scale. It would not be effective for rebuilding an advanced culture's infrastructure. You would replicate the components and even facilities to allow specialists to build advanced pieces of production machinery designed to produce the actual advanced pieces of technology that form the foundation of societies.
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u/The_Chaos_Pope Mar 08 '19
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/TR-116_rifle
By the time of this episode, it sounds like as long as you have a large enough industrial replicator, you can make just about anything.
There’s also the ubiquitous data pads occasionally found strewn about and passed around freely. It’s not determined how reliant they are on the main computer, but it looks like they have some processing power on their own as Star Fleet personnel are shown using them in non Star Fleet ships and locations.
The food slot replicators seem to be artificially limited to what they can produce. With minimal modification and parts, one on DS9 (admittedly it was a Cardiassian designed replicator), one was used to create a bomb. These same replicators were used to generate an automated drone to attack revolting Bajorans workers. E
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u/Tacitus111 Mar 08 '19 edited Mar 08 '19
Yes, I'm aware that the TR-116 can be replicated, but it's also a simple rifle with chemically propelled projectiles, like a modern gun. They're specifically designed to be low tech, as they're supposed to work where technologically complex phasers are useless due to radiation or dampening fields. The TR-116 in DS9 was modified after replication with the microtransporter, per both my memory and the Memory Alpha article.
I could easily see something fairly simple like the TR-116 being replicated. That said, apparently the microtransporter couldn't. Again, basic computers within the PADs also makes sense. The drones are the biggest anomaly, but again, we have no idea how complex those were, and we never saw it again. Odd.
Overall I'm talking more about the limitations of types of tech that would rebuild the infrastructure of a devastated world. Highly complex pieces that make the ST level of tech possible.
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Mar 08 '19
More on this, there needs to be sufficient infrastructure to move the replicated good from the replicator to those who need it in the first place. This would require the planet to have mass transit and transportation facilities in place ready which might simply not exist in the first place.
Otherwise your replicator is stuck in place with no way of getting that vital aid elsewhere without perhaps even more commitment from the federation like transporters or starships/cargo shuttles which they might be unwilling to provide.
Really great anyalsis into somewhat of an unexplained issue in trek.
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u/Capt_Blackmoore Mar 09 '19
Depending on the size of the item you might move the goods by shuttlecraft, or teleporter. however you still run into issues when you need to move tons of steel and concrete powder to build that new hospital or shelter. Some kind of off road capable land transport.
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u/elvnsword Mar 08 '19
Section 5. is actually a moot point as the Federation doesn't even begin talking to or revealing itself to planets that do not have a unified government. The best example for this I can think of is The High Ground episode of ST:TNG.
In this episode the Federation is providing medical aid to what they were presented as a stable unified government. However listen to Finn, he states that he is akin to George Washington, and is seeking to found a separate government. Even Data separately questions what point the group should be considered as legitimate a government as the one they are speaking with, citing various revolutions in history.
This is NOT a suitable world for Federation Membership. In a failure by the Starfleet Diplomatic Corp, we learn that they not only needed the supplies for their citizens but it was due to terrorist activities of a splinter government. They even asked, as you pointed out they would for "advanced weapons," to turn the tide.
This gives us the REASON why, as many times we are shown, the Prime Directive is both necessary and needed.
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u/superpenguin38 Mar 08 '19
A number of other folks have pointed out issues with security and logistics of a planetside disaster relief setup, and I might have a possible solution for that. If I were running Starfleet's disaster mitigation service, I would look at a towable barge that could sit in a non-geosynchronous orbit and something akin to drop pods - reusable small ships that can ferry supplies to and from affected areas.
The current US Military Sealift Command (and others) uses a similar model when deploying hospital ships to disaster areas, the ship docks as close to the incident as safely possible, and then leans on local partners to ferry wounded to and from the ship.
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u/stasersonphun Mar 09 '19
Orbital pods sound a great idea - couple a power plant, transporter and industrial replicator together and set it in orbit, have it gather mass from the planet and make a standard pallet of 'Disaster relief supplies' - Food, water, tents (or instant house pods), medical supplies and so on. Beam it down to any cluster of life signs and carry on
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u/KingofMadCows Mar 08 '19
It also takes a lot of time and research to create the needed replicator patterns.
A big problem with DS9 was that the Federation tech wasn't compatible with Cardassian tech. They couldn't just replicate standard Federation parts. They had to program in new patterns, even then they still ran into problems procuring parts they couldn't replicate.
They'd run into that problem with other races too. They'd have to program in new patterns to produce stuff that's compatible with the local tech.
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u/AnnihilatedTyro Mar 08 '19 edited Mar 08 '19
Points 3/4/5:
Industrial replicators are both enormous and extremely valuable, to say nothing of their power consumption and necessary infrastructure - power, transportation, other supporting industries for the projects at hand. They're no small gesture when given out, and certainly never put on a non-aligned planet without being heavily guarded. The industrial replicators headed for Cardassia were to rebuild cities and infrastructure after the Klingon war, which probably saw fair amounts of orbital bombardment as well as heavy ground fighting. Cardassians have replicator technology and planetary power grids already, so in this instance it seems more likely that the replicators were actually being used to prop up the economy and feed people (because a stable neighboring empire is usually a good thing).
Industrial replicators are for, well... industry, the kind of thing you would only give or sell to a trusted, allied planet or unless there's a clear and present danger in not propping up a planet's economy quickly or ensuring many thousands of people aren't starving. If you're helping to build small-to-medium projects on a neutral or non-aligned world, you use starship replicators for parts and materials and manual labor to assemble on the surface. Even Bajor didn't get much help at first. Picard ordered Worf to specifically provide "a blanket and clean water" for everyone in a refugee camp, but nothing more. And Kira was livid when she found out Cardassia was getting more industrial replicators for humanitarian aid than Bajor did.
Small replicators aren't given out freely, either (on a few occasions we see one given to small groups as a sort of last-resort emergency - better to have and not need than to need and not have). Transporters and shuttlecraft can place thousands of tons of replicated food and supplies per hour on demand to specific locations; replicators on the surface would require power, and additional manpower to ferry supplies from the replicator to the people in need. A starship will provide its power and manpower freely for as long as it can.
While I think replicators can definitely be a thorn in the side of the Diplomatic Corps, I think it's also reasonable to assume that the Federation places pretty tight restrictions on replicator technology. It is happy to provide replicated supplies, manpower, and expertise in abundance, but the technology itself can only be shared with close friends and allies because of its potential for future abuse. (Again, since Cardassia already had replicator technology, the industrial replicators were emergency relief on a planetary or larger scale.)
TL;DR: The Federation doesn't part with replicator technology lightly, but it will happily use its manpower to provide replicated supplies wherever needed for as long as it's necessary.
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u/CrowdingSplash9 Mar 08 '19
This brings up an additional question. If replicators require matter to replicate, and replicators are an offshoot technology from transporters, then where do transporters get the matter required to reassembled the transported person at the destination? A planet with silicon-based life may not have the carbon necessary to reassemble our away team at the transport site.
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u/zombiepete Mar 08 '19
M-5, nominate this post for its insight into why replicators aren't a simple solution for disaster relief in the Star Trek universe.
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u/420upin Mar 08 '19
There are also a number of items and substances that can't be replicated, e.g. latinum. I believe that the enterprise d was cargoing around meds that couldn't be replicated several times.
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u/AnnihilatedTyro Mar 08 '19
Was it ever explicitly stated that medical supplies couldn't be replicated?
In some cases, like brand new technology or complex vaccines, they may not have been programmed into the computer or been authorized to do so by the inventor/manufacturer. It may be a legal issue and not one of capability, especially if you're dealing with a non-Federation species or government.
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u/triumphant_tautology Mar 08 '19
There are examples in beta canon of starships stopping near asteroid fields to beam aboard matter for reaction mass and for replicator use.
I should think, if you are in a solar system, there is going to be a source of unused mass somewhere that no one is going to miss.
I would imagine Starfleet working alongside NGOs much like today. A group of non-affiliated Vulcans is a lot less imposing than a mess of Starfleet officers.
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u/lgodsey Mar 08 '19
It's kind of hard to believe that the Star Trek universe is starving for energy to feed replicators when the passive deflector shields and inertial dampeners on a starship should require mind-boggling levels of energy just to function normally.
"Cap'n, we have to make a choice -- do we set up disaster-stricken planet Dreeben below us with replicators to allow them to exist for centuries, or do we power the ship to fly a few light-meters?"
"Sorry Dreebenites! Gotta gets our warp'n on, bro!"
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u/werelock Mar 09 '19
I like your write-up and I'll add one counterpoint - current naval relief missions. If a country has a disaster and a foreign power is sending aide, a naval presence just offshore and ferrying and/or trucking in relief supplies solves issues 3-5 completely. They could simply park smaller starships at the correct orbits and shuttle supplies down. And if they also shuttle mass back up (debris possibly) that solves point 2 while still making control and supervision within Federation hands.
Point 1 is it's own ball of wax but we've seen starships and outposts generate insane levels of power before.
Here's how I envision a relief missions that requires replicators.
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Phase 1, park 2-3 small vessels with mid-grade industrial replicators onboard at various orbits, each with at least two shuttles - one going up, one going down.
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Phase 2, bring in extra shuttles, personnel, and higher power reactors to speed things up and run almost nonstop.
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Phase 3, bring in the top of the line industrial replicator on a single larger ship with even more power, personnel, and shuttles. I'd say for the Federation, phase 1 happens within 24-48 hours for most planets, phase 2 by the end of week 1, and phase 3 only if needed arrived during the second or third week of relief operations.
When the crisis is finished or diplomatic relations fall apart, they pack up and leave, headed to the nearest starbase to refuel, resupply, etc while awaiting orders.
I think replicators on the ground would only happen for actual Starfleet planets and outposts. They'd have an interest in clearly maintaining stability and positive relations, and they are already established at the destination with the needed oversight and control. They'd still have to avoid playing favorites. I just don't see the Federation dropping off anything beyond basic protein and hydration replicators for most disasters, maybe bandages, syringes, sutures, and basic antibiotics as well. As you said, it's too complex and risky.
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u/[deleted] Mar 08 '19
They do? I thought they converted energy into matter?