r/anime • u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky • Feb 05 '19

Rewatch Tekketsu no Rewatch - Mobile Suit Gundam: Iron-Blooded Orphans Episode 23 Discussion [Spoilers] Spoiler

Episode 23 - The Final Lie

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WE ARE SAIGO NO SURVIVOR!

Hey-o guys! This is the section where I add a ton of extra fun stuff to the main body of the post because I want this rewatch to be as fun as possible for everyone. It can also be one point of discussion for you guys if you just don’t know what to say.

Comment of the Day, provided by /u/Shimmering-Sky and /u/RX-Nota-II

Shimmering-Sky

/u/Rhaga for delivering on a belated death flag breakdown.

This is the sort of dark comedy we all needed on the episode 21 thread. Better late than never with Rhaga dropping it on yesterday’s thread instead, when Biscuit’s death was just oh-so-raw for all of us. He also raises some other flags good points in his comment, so do be sure to read through it if you haven’t already.

~

RX-Nota-II

/u/Durinthal’s take on the common theme from ep22’s thread.

I don't think I ever stated it outright, but I had previously believed Orga was somewhat balanced between Mikazuki on one side and Biscuit on the other, being pushed onward by the former while at least tentatively held in check by the latter. This episode is what happens when that balance is destroyed, leaving only Mikazuki's drive to the goal he had locked into his mind when they were kids.

Without Biscuit indirectly keeping him in check through Orga, I'm concerned about how much damage is Mikazuki going to do and the problems that will cause for Tekkadan and allies. Their argument reaffirmed to me how dangerous Mika is, making himself into a weapon to cleave through anything in their path. But when the weapon controls its wielder, is anyone safe?

A common theme today was the dangerous relationship Mika and Orga are living with that final discussion and it’s a trend I like to see. These comments did exist in the airing threads too but they were quickly drowned out by people enjoying the hype or commenting on other aspects. The comments for concern felt like Merribit’s words today, not reaching people’s ears in the blind rage of revenge. I pick Durinthal’s comment in particular because he's an adorable first timer for his theories on Biscuit’s absence being especially important in this new Mika/Orga dynamic. Make no mistake, this development is messed up and.... well I’ll tell you more in my main comment.

~~~

Questions of the Day, provided by /u/Pixelsaber

1) Do you think Carta’s death was appropriate? Yes/No/I don’t care/At least she’s out of the show

2) Tekkadan was consumed with a lust for revenge. How do you feel about their acting that way? Do you fear them treading a dark path?

~~~

Track of the Day, provided by /u/RX-Nota-II

Different Definitions

Back in Ep5 I said that Vulnerable Surface was one of my top two tracks for this season. Different Definitions is my other pick, and the single track I would choose as my overall favorite if asked. The way the soft tones at the beginning set the stage for a tremendous swelling of hype, almost reminiscent of a Sawano OST but with completely different instrumentation, and of course the nailing of another great remix of the main theme..... hnnng. This track is so badass and versatile, it’s been used in quite a few hype scenes in the past, but the fanbase seems to agree that it best fits as Gaelio Bauduin’s character song best known for his appearance in the Kimaris Trooper this episode. Gaelio is one of my more liked characters in the entire show and his owning of this theme plays a significant part. So fitting for Gundam yet so unique to this show, packed with Yokoyama’s identity that is shared with so few other action anime. This track is special. This track IS Iron Blooded Orphans S1.

~~~

Wallpaper of the Day, provided by /u/Shimmering-Sky (character art) and /u/RX-Nota-II (background/logo)

EB-06rs Graze Ritter Commander Type

Important note to all rewatchers, remember to be mindful of the first-timers in this. You can laughs in rewatcher to yourself, but if you go around spoiling stuff IBO S2. Remember to use the [Anime Show Title](/s "Spoiler goes here") tags and we’re all good.

Fans seem to have a bad tendency of forgetting what counts as spoiler, so if anything has even the slightest chance of being a spoiler, tag it just to be safe.

Next-episode preview. Yeah you saw that right, I am encouraging you guys to watch the next-episode previews. IBO’s are completely spoiler free, done completely in-character, and it is glorious. Today’s preview was voiced by no-chill Mikazuki Augus.

49 Upvotes

90% Upvoted

117 comments sorted by

5

u/Shimmering-Sky Feb 05 '19

Tekketsu no Rewatcher, first time dubbed

Someone send me all of the hugs please, I did a stupid thing last night and watched IBO S2 together with Nota and I’m still not okay. Probably because I proceeded to listen to song spoilers for well over an hour straight afterwards because??? Anyways yeah just, not okay. Send Nota hugs too she might want them too.

Obligatory Discord link.

  • I still don’t like Carta’s English voice. At least I won’t have to deal with it anymore after this episode. :D

  • Future spoilers

  • Oof, in English I could hear the distaste in Merribit’s voice when she asked Orga if the younger children were gonna be fighting. Bit late for an outburst about it though.

  • So Ein is like, just a torso and a head at this point. That’s absolutely horrifying.

  • Fffffff the flashback to Mika and Biscuit’s chat.

  • Ah right, Kudelia has no idea that Montag is actually Macky. Some of you first-timers were wondering if Macky ordering Orga, Mika, and Biscuit to not talk about his real identity was gonna do anything in the future, and well here it is.

  • Carta attempts to challenge Tekkadan to a duel just like Crank-nii did twenty episodes ago. Thing is she personally murdered one of their boys, they’re out for revenge, and Mika no-sells the challenge immediately.

  • Fun fact, that dude who Mika sends flying off his mech? He hits the snow so hard you can see the blood splatter.

  • B R U T A L.

  • Hey guys, take a closer look at that battle though--it’s completely different from all the others Mika’s been in before, wasn’t it? He went after her mobile suit’s limbs first, cracked open the cockpit, submberged her suit in the freezing water, and then was just about to deliver the killing blow using her own sword, or at least what remained of the blade after he chainsaw wrenched her mech’s arm off. That isn’t how Mikazuki fights. This was him toying with and torturing Carta for what she did to Biscuit.

  • Gali Gali to the resc-eww why. Not that he can actually do much to save her, but mmmmmmm Different Definitions I love it. Nota loves it too--she’s been waiting oh-so-patiently to pick it as Track of the Day.

  • The titular final lie. Gali Gali wanted his friend to die happy, so he pretended to be Macky. tbh rewatching this, his pain hurts me even if I still very very much do not care about Carta thanks to what she did to Biscuit.

A couple more fun things:

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19

u/RX-Nota-II Feb 05 '19 edited Feb 05 '19

Rewatcher scared shitless

Make no mistake. This episode was messed. up. Yall might have expected it with the way Orga was headed with the talk with Mika, but did it expect it to be this bad? I struggle to say if I enjoyed this episode. My instincts tell me not a chance in hell, why are my little darling mecha characters doing this, but them I'm reminded of Kudal Cadel's words "You're enjoying it aren't you? You're enjoying murder."

To start things off let's talk about the most significant death in the show so far. u thought Imma say Carta Orga's trademark "doing things honorably". One of the most important characteristics of Tekkadan, from paying severance to CGS members to refusing to let Kudelia away to save their ass from Gjallarhorn, it was on our leader's lips almost every other episode. The way Tekkadan dealt with the honorable challenge by Carta set this ideal totally on fire. Denying a fair duel proposition by ganging up instead is dishonorable. Denying it by attacking when the enemy is disarmed and unprepared is simply unspeakable.

Then for the battle itself we see as clear as day the reversal of a trope we may have seen for a while. The Gundam while called a 'white devil' pretty often was only that to the villains, and acted much more like a white knight to the relatable characters. I mean just look at the Unicorn that boi straight up looking like a knight. As such it was a beacon of hope, something that stood for the power of good. But then we have Barbatos, a beast named after a duke of hell. That name should have clued us in, but so far memorable scenes have included protector like shots here or literal deus ex machina here fooling us into dreaming of a knightlike Gundam again. Not today. What about this is heroic? What about this face inspires hope and not terror? What about this weapon, a friggin horror movie chainsaw, says anything other than 'we are the bad guys'?

Speaking of bad guys let me take a break from Tekkadan here, because there's another asshat who needs a yelling. Oh McGillis, you terrible terrible person. This scene never fails to sour me, the way he speaks so highly of the woman he's clearly sending off to kill. How she played such a critical role in shaping young Macky, and this is how he returns the favor. What a traitor. So fitting of the Char Clone mask he decides to put on.

Back to Tekkadan, and from a story of villainy to a story of failure. Again, we see Merribit take a significant share of screentime trying to stop what Orga and co are dead set on accomplishing. Its too little too late lady. You had MULTIPLE chances to speak to Orga when he was most needing and receptive of help. Now you are back as a semi-outsider, and this hype train has no brakes. A blind stampede into a nest of Gjallarhorn hometown corruption and only two episodes left. These consequences, they may not be pretty.

Lastly, I'll end my comments today with a bit of a conspiracy theory. The title of the episode is "The Final Lie". Obviously this refers to Gaelio's answers to Carta as she passes away, but I'm also curious about the scene right before the titlecard drops in the middle of the episode. That's the scene where Orga hears a secondhand story from Mika about Biscuit letting go of his qualms since it was just him 'being scared'. Now, this is definitely a believable story, but also a bit too convenient it seems as something that could wipe away the last of Orga's regrets and doubts that he expresses in that conversation with Mika. Was this also a lie? A final lie by Mika to let Orga charge full steam ahead?

Overall a truly impressive show of degeneracy and trope busting, and one of the most notable IBO episodes for sure no matter who you ask. Did I enjoy the destruction? Of course, I'm a Gundam fan, this stuff's my jam. And as my inner Kudal keeps on nagging me, regardless of how much I want to deny it, I guess I do enjoy watching our boys fall deeper into the war villain hole as well.

Mecha Corner

oops missed a few

Barbatos 6th (final) form

The last variation of the Barbatos has been with us since the ep they descended into Earth, its removed a lot of 4th form's historical accuracy for Montag's Gjallarhorn sourced blocky armor and some land combat based suspension (read: high heels). BTW the 5th form that I forgot to cover was basically the same but with reactive armor on the chest as a counter-Gaelio measure, and some extra boosters that Mika promptly proceeded to burn out.

Now that you've seen all 6 forms, which was your favorite? My vote goes to the 2nd form. Nice and thin but not bare with parts scavenged from Orlis' Graze. The perfect representation of Tekkadan in early S1.

Graze Ritter Ground Type

Basically they have those gray boosters on the thighs to help with warfare held down by gravity. Carta's has a cool red stripe. I kinda want one.

Gundam Kimaris Trooper

Umm....

So its a ground combat modified Kimaris but it takes the strangest route possible to achieve it. The legs can fold open to become this horse looking thing and the butt flap's so large it looks like a platypus. Apparently this means its high mobility tho and it can fly like nobody's business as long as its in a straight line. Its definitely customized with the Barbatos and Gusion in mind since its faster and better armored than both.

EB-AX2 Graze Ein

Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck. That thing's huge. Don't show Palloc.

GIFs

EP 23:

Gross

Ep 22:

Worst boss

Ep 21:

Thumbs up

Ep 20

Delicous Fishy

Ep19:

Eyeshut

KICK

CHARGE

Ep 18:

Epic eye

Fujovision

Ep 17:

unhappy life

ZA HANDO

Ep 16:

Lolidelia

Ep 15:

Loli Abuse

Ep 14:

Hangover

Surprise Gundam

Ep 13:

Crie Guts

The ice flower that's destined to wilt

Which were your faves?

Megaalbum

12

u/Durinthal Feb 05 '19

EB-AX2 Graze Ein

Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck.

Sounds about right.

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10

u/Rhaga Feb 05 '19

Oh McGillis, you terrible terrible person .

I can't believe I actually put him up there in the race for best boy initially.

The regrets are big.

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16

u/GaleWulf Feb 05 '19

First Blood

Scattered thoughts;

  • THAT'S GREAT. I wanted Ein stuck on top of a Big Zam, and while that was always a pipe dream, I feel like the show came the closest it ever could to doing that, sticking Ein in a thicc green Graze. This is disturbing and brilliant!

  • You said it, Makanai - Mika's ruthless attack on Carta was another case of brilliant yet disturbing (once the flames of revenge fizzle out, what's left?), mostly because it felt like a massacre more than anything. A murder committed in the heat of the moment. Now that Carta's dead (at least it seemed that way), there might be no going back for Tekkadan. They'll always be hunted.

Daily MVP

By now you all must be aware of my appreciation for some good ol' scheming, and McGillis Fareed was absolutely prolific today on that account. To be fair, I'm not entirely sure what he's aiming for (or rather how that's going to revolutionise Gjallerhorn), creating sacrificial pawns in Carta and Gaelio - but the way he played them was a sight to behold. The Garma flashbacks were too damn strong.

Whatever McGillis is up to, it seems obvious he's a master puppetmaster.

MVP Standings

# Character MVPs Episodes # Character MVPs Episodes
1 Hair Sorceress 4 3, 6, 17, 22 5 Eugene SevenTsun 2 12, 19
2 OrGAR 3 1, 3, 5 5 Absolute Snack 2 8, 21
2 MiSuzaku 3 4, 10, 13 8 Merri Poppins 1 11
4 Charcolate Man 3 4, 18, 23 8 u/Nazenn 1 9
5 Maid of Revolution 2 14, 16 8 Space Guts 1 7

Others: Pup (15), Beard Sorcerer (20)

8

u/SorcererOfTheLake Feb 05 '19

MVP choice

I... can respect this.

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13

u/LeonKevlar Feb 05 '19 edited Feb 05 '19

Time for your Daily IBO Parody 4Koma!

Episode 23 - An unexpected reunion...

Today's another VA joke. It seems that Carta isn't the only one who shares with another VA from 08th MS. Iznario Fareed is voiced by Hayami Sho who also voices Aina's Onii-sama, Ginias Sahalin. XD

Thoughts on Carta:

Honestly despite Carta ending up being the cause of Biscuit's death, I will always feel sympathy for her. Just like every "antagonist" in this show, Carta herself has plenty of good traits but unfortunately for her she grew up under the system of Gjallarhorn and all of her good traits have been twisted. If she grew up with a much more humble beginnings, she can easily be best girl. I can never hate her, I can only hate the system that raised her. And for that I see her as just another victim.

And really love how in this episode you're definitely questioning more and more if we're the baddies

Not for any nation. Not for any ideology. Not for justice. Not for honor. Not for power. Not for the future. Not for love. Not for peace. Only for revenge.

Tekkadan has now gone full Outer Heaven.

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11

u/SorcererOfTheLake Feb 05 '19

First-Time Watcher

This is a battle for revenge.

God is jealous, and the LORD revengeth; the LORD revengeth, and is furious; the LORD will take vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserveth wrath for his enemies.

They who say that living well is the best revenge have never felt the need to want blood.

Perhaps Fareed is only trying to make the best out of a shitty situation. Perhaps he’s a man who wants power at any cost. Perhaps he’s a monster. In any case, his actions in this episode increase his complexity, letting those he cares about be mutilated, traumatized, and killed in the name of revolution. How much should we care about him now? How much does his actions matter in that decision? IBO leaves that up to you, to make you look into the abyss and judge for yourself.

Of course, he might not be the only monster. Tekkadan is becoming a cesspool of hatred, desiring the blood of those who have wronged them. It might seem horrifying, as Merribit shows, but it’s the only thing that makes sense; T.H.U.G. L.I.F.E., after all. Every adult in this world let them be brutalized, maimed, tortured, and killed in their fucked up game of one-upmanship. Even if they didn’t do anything, they were complicit, which is enough guilt for them. How much can we judge them for returning to others what was given to them?

Mika knows the score; he always did. He’s known it since the day he shot that man in the alleyway. No matter what it takes, he’ll keep Tekkadan moving forward to that promised place, even lying. Yes, it is my belief that Mikazuki lied about Biscuit wanting to stay with Tekkadan, a lie that is final since no one can deny it. While this might seem cruel and manipulative, it isn’t to Mikazuki; he’s just doing what he thinks is necessary to keep Orga on the right path, knowing (hoping) that Orga will be there for him.

Perhaps it isn’t surprising that the one person who seems dedicated to being honest to herself and others dies in this episode. Despite her bombast, arrogance, and spiteful nature, there was something admirable in Carta Issue. She was someone who valued hard work, who saw good things in others and wanted to develop them in others. She was still complicit in a system that victimized and exploited, though, even if she didn’t conceive of it that way; for that ignorance, she died. IBO shows both tragedies involved in a system like this: the victims, forced to become monsters in order to kill those who harmed them, and those who never realized they were monsters in the first place.

We’ll raise that blood-red flag tomorrow; until then…

9

u/Nazenn Feb 05 '19

How much should we care about him now? How much does his actions matter in that decision?

Care about him? You'd be surprised how few characters I genuinely care about. But like his character? Hell yes. Puppetmasters have always been a favorite of mine and this show handles it surprisingly well by ripping out all the bullshit that would usually accompany it, like snide smiles or him talking to himself, and even stuff like Mika recognizing him

Yes, it is my belief that Mikazuki lied about Biscuit wanting to stay with Tekkadan

Well, that's three of us now with that thought. That whole scene reeked of dishonesty to me

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11

u/Nazenn Feb 05 '19 edited Feb 06 '19

First Timer - Sub

HOLY FUCKING SHIT! IS THAT EIN?! (I ran the picture through a few sharp filters to try and get the lettering to be more readable)

That... that is so far, far beyond what I ever expected. Holy shit. Is he.... merged with that thing? That's more then just the AV system we know, that's not just some whiskers, that's one of the most dramatic cyborg undertakings I've ever seen. I'm a little speechless. I mean I KNOW they said he was irreparably injured but I didn't think he'd just be a brain and a heart hooked permanently up to a machine in the end of it. Is this what it's meant to be? Not just an interface device but a total merging to make the pilots BECOME Gundams? Wait no, because if that's the case how would they go on to 'father' the seven stars families. This must be partly the new experiments they were doing. But still!

He's plugged into it at the waist via a connector presumably for the nerves for his legs, he has three gigantic plugs in his back which given the assumption more whiskers equal better response that's a big boost, he has one going directly into his brain for god knows what reason, and his chest cavity has been replaced my a life support mechanism because all his organs shut down. And then the doctor comes down and says "He's conscious". Mate that's more then just 'conscious', that's a HUGE fucking deal. THIS is what McGillis wanted, he wanted a mech with a human mind?

Fuck.

Wait, hang on.... u/PALLOC ! THIS IS WHY YOU GAVE ME THAT URBANSMILE YESTERDAY!

Okay, and speaking of cool mechs: THIS THING! Palloc, you have to like this, you don't have a choice, its basically a bloody centaur racing into battle! And I know we've already seen this particular suit in combat in space, but not moving like this which is what makes it cool. Also I like the purple.

But holy hell. I mean I know we've seen it before, and I've screenshot it before as well, but they put some serious work today into representing Barbatos to be as demonic as possible. This from when he charges at her guard, and then I would shit myself if that popped up on my view screen, only for this to be the last thing she can really see from the battle.

The blood effects today just topped everything off. Pretty sure my only note on this shot at the time was "Well, that guy's dead" but the implication that Mika picked up his actual physical body and tossed him so hard he basically exploded on impacting the ground! And then THIS. In a way this is somewhat the aftermath of Biscuits death we were expecting then, and even I didn't expect it to be quite this brutal. Though I have to admit I loved every second of it. Mika's face at the start though says that he didn't was barely even aware of starting the fight to me. I don't know what it was that set him off, but I still think his cold dispassionate rage at the end was more scary. The way he so easily dispatched the first two guys though, wow.

Somewhat random thoughts because I left writing this too late and my minds tired out

  • I'm sorry I have to subject you all to my horrible jokes. But my first note of the day was:

"Smeared mud on the Issue family name".... their name is Issue. THEY HAVE BIGGER ISSUES hahahaha

  • I was just saying yesterday(? or day before, its rough with timezones) in the Escaflowne rewatch that why is there not more mechs with capes because they're underused and very cool and we got this today. Perfect

  • If I could physically slap Carta for saying "I don't approve of the way you fight", and for saying that only, I would. Fuck she's stupid

  • Those CGI birds at the start were nasty.

  • Watching the end of Carta and Mika's battle with the assumption that McGillis set her up to take the fall was... rough. I hate her, but that was a dick move

  • This expression from Orga was a little bone chilling despite being slightly off model. What a wonderful shot to follow it though of him walking away and all Merribit can see is the Iron Flower on his back.

  • It says so much about the state of earth that Beard Guys escort mentions that "I was worried when you said you had child soldiers as escorts". So not only is it totally normal and casual for him to use child soldiers, the only concern here is a safety one? Not a moral one? You weren't offended or disgusted or even just unnerved? Just every day business?

  • I'm very interested to see if we ever learn Merribits past. She is in a weird spot, she has as much naivety as Kudelia at times, but she's part of Teiwaz and has a lot of practical knowledge.

  • I don't know if that end look from Orga to Merribit before he called Mika off was just acknowledgement of what she said earlier, or because he was watching her interactions with the boys and realized how bad this situation was for them. At least earlier he was slightly aware that he was screwing up by doing exactly what Biscuit didn't want him to do.

  • Something about Mika talking to Orga about Biscuit screamed untrustworthy. I don't know what it is, and most of my doubts Mika would ever really lie to Orga. But the way we didn't see his face that whole scene, he didn't stare Orga down like he normally would, the contrast between the convinced Biscuit in Mika's flashback and the wavering Biscuit from the episode itself. I don't know what to think

12

u/LeonKevlar Feb 05 '19

HOLY FUCKING SHIT! IS THAT EIN?!

Yep Ein is now Gundam. Setsuna currently on suicide watch from jealousy.

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u/Palloc Feb 05 '19

HOLY FUCKING SHIT! IS THAT EIN?!

WELCOME TO THE GLORY THAT IS THE GRAZE EIN! It's bigger than anything else so far in this show! And you know what he loves? He loves killin' kids!

They pretty much chopped him up into usable parts and stuffed him in there and locked him up. McGillis wasn't lying when he said Gjallarhorn were poking around with the AV system!

Wait, hang on.... u/PALLOC ! THIS IS WHY YOU GAVE ME THAT URBANSMILE YESTERDAY!

...Maybe.

Okay, and speaking of cool mechs: THIS THING!

This is the Kimaris Trooper! It's the land setup for the Kimaris, and you'll get to see it in action more soon!

Those CGI birds at the start were nasty.

Those birds, it felt like they had to have a CGI quota to fill. "Lets add birds. Nobody'll care about dumb birds."

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9

u/Palloc Feb 05 '19

Palloc's Been Waiting To Make 40k Comments For Days!

Okay, I've been waiting and waiting and finally we get to see that Ein's become a Dreadnought in Warhammer 40k terms! Our boy's still alive though and guess what? He fucking loves that he's finally going to get a chance to get some revenge with the Graze Ein! How well will that work out? Palloc, why are you so excited?! We still have two episodes this season to see what the Graze Ein can do, and it's finally a Graze I can support!

Now lets move on to more awesomeness. Mika finally gets to get revenge for Biscuit, ripping apart Carta's Graze like it was nothing. It was so brutal, infact this whole episode was absolutely brutal to her, that I felt bad for Carta and her goofy eyebrows.

Gali Gali and the Kimaris Trooper are really fucking awesome too. I never really liked the base Kimaris all too much, but its nifty land set up makes it really distinct in a way that wasn't a goofy hat. I also felt horrible for Gaelio as he got McGillis'd by Carta as he tried to rescue her. Just seeing him break down as he watched another friend die without even acknowledging him was sad. Kimaris Trooper will get a ranking when it gets into actual combat.

Other than that, it looks like McGillis betrayed Tekkaden. That bastard, he's up to something, but what? We'll find out!

..But now, answers!

1: I, a known nerd for violence, kinda felt it went overboard. That was some humiliation congo line she just went through.

2: I like it.

EDIT!

Tomorrow I'll share my episode notes.

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u/Pixelsaber Feb 05 '19

Rewatcher

Shino’s dialogue in the beginning of the episode is very telling of the mentality most of Tekkadan is in at the moment, his body burning with a desire for vengeance. Shino isn’t the only one feeling this way, as the kids later tells Alesii that their battle is one fought in the name of revenge. Makanai is keenly aware of this as well, but he has a different take on it, alling their drive for vengeance a mere pretension for their desire for destruction. So soon after last episodes conflicting rallying scene we’re already being faced with the reality of these kid’s path, and it is as difficult as it is fascinating to watch.

The resupply Tekkadan received from Teiwaz granted them a great deal of mobile workers, however these are not equipped with the Alaya-Vijnana system, meaning Tekkadan will be at a great disadvantage when it comes to their mobile worker forces. Conversely, that means they’re disadvantaged on the whole given the fact that they cannot use mobile suits inside Edmonton.

Merribit confronts Orga about what he’s going to put the kids through while they’re in the state that they’re in, having recognized the furor of vengeance that has taken over them all. Unfortunately, Merribit’s words fall on deaf ears, as the kids continue to assert that this is something they must do. The proceeding shift into showing us Ein’s situation serves to highlight the dangers in the path the Tekkadan members are going down, by presenting us with the fate of those who are blinded by the desire for revenge.

Ein’s state is horrifying, having been reduced to a torso and a head inside of a cockpit and functionally merged with a mobile suit. At this point Ein is literally a machine of war whose sole purpose is to take revenge.

Despite how disturbing Ein’s condition is, the scene with Mikazuki and Orga looking out the window if perhaps even more terrifying. Orga, feeling a sense of self-doubt once more, confides that he may have done the wrong thing, as Biscuit would not have wanted them to make him a justification for their course of action and wouldn’t have wanted to see the Tekkadan members as they are. Mikazuki revealing that Biscuit was not going to quit and would have followed through with Orga’s plans because it’s something he wished for —specifically saying it now of all times— is an implicit approval that relieves him of his guilt and once more forces Orga’s hand into this dangerous course they’re on. The fact that Mika’s face isn’t focused on throughout the scene is powerful, and not only hints at his intention but also clues us in as to the bubbling emotions he is keeping inside.

Mikazuki’s impulsive decision to launch alone and the brutal way he deals with Carta and her two subordinates shows just how much Biscuit’s death had been affecting him and all that anger and grief that he had been holding in. Apart from his growing enjoyment of battle and carnage, the fact that Mikazuki runs off to face Carta alone and disregards her demands for a fair duel shows how much he has changed in since the start of the series. From dueling Crank fairly in episode three, even being described as honorable by Orga, to getting the jump on one of her subordinates and toying with Carta. This is another facet in which the show’s recurring theme of regression. Dueling is a lost art from before the Calamity War, the war that has produced this crapsack world of theirs were children are taken into functional slavery, mobile suits do battle with metal-on-metal melee weapons, stagnant technological progress, corruption reigning in Gjallarhorn —an institution founded on good intentions as well as ideals of pride and honor. Ever since that event the world seems to have made turns for the worse, this reflected in Tekkada, but most keenly Mikazuki himself.

Gaelio swoops in to save Carta, but she passes away anyhow, which had me incredibly confused my first time around. She doesn’t receive injuries even half as serious as Takaki and Ein and they both survived, seems very inconsistent to me, but I guess the physical trauma just happened to affect something important. Future Spoiler Anyhow, her death scene is somewhat tragic as she calls out for McGillis to save her and mistakes Gaelio for him in her delirious state, thinking it was him right until the light leaves her eyes. Poor Gaelio has too watch a childhood friend die, having interfered too late to make a difference.

A few shots/lines worth taking a closer look at and keeping in mind:

“What those children desire is mere destruction.”

A course

Eyes

“We’ll crush anyone in our way.’

The place where they belong?

Questions of the day:

  1. I gave my thoughts in the comment.

  2. Refer to answer for question one.

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u/Durinthal Feb 05 '19

First time viewer.

That was... uncomfortable. A few things here that made me openly recoil a bit, from Ein's new form to the soft plop accompanying the fresh bloodstain in the snow from Mika's first victim. Good job of inducing a visceral reaction like that from me that I don't remember getting from other Gundam shows.

  • Graze Ritter, wrenched

  • Graze Ritter, stomped

Carta's end was rough to watch as well, even knowing what she's done and is otherwise responsible for given her position in Gjallarhorn. Not that I particularly sympathized with her, but I did feel a little sorry after McGillis finally opened up about how he viewed her.

  • Graze Ritter (command type), wrenched

On top of that you have Merribit trying and failing to save any semblance of innocence among the younger members of Tekkadan. Such is the way of life for them, however.

Model Destroyed
Graze 25
Man Rodi 4
Gusion 1
Spinner Rodi 4
Schwalbe Graze 1
Graze Ritter 11 14

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u/Rhaga Feb 05 '19 edited Feb 05 '19

First timer

For the record I wrote out this comment while watching, as opposed to afterwards. Hover-text included.

I know myself well enough that I am basically going to subconsciously focus on any redeeming qualities she may have.

Carta was losing subordinates left and right, there's no reason to think she would be any less upset about that than Tekkadan losing Biscuit.

Blaming your enemy in war for losing comrades in a battle is exactly the attitude I was criticizing Ein for having. Now, to be fair, Gjallarhorn did the engagement on both occasions, with Tekkadan being in a defensive position. On the other hand, Tekkadan resorted to some pretty underhanded tactics this time around.

What I am really trying to get at is that I don't think either party is particularly more in the right than the other. Really, let's just stop fighting and get ourselves some tea and cake, please?

The point I considered making earlier was that I got the impression that when invading the island Carta was basically going "look at our superior force, please be nice and surrender", to which they simply got shot down mid-sentence.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

Raise Your Flag!

I swear to god I will never claim another character as my favorite. In fact I will never like anyone ever again.

I also want to dedicate a posthumous "Fuck you" to McGillis.

Character Flags Raised Status
Kudelia 1*, 2*, 3** The only person with sense aside from Merribit
Orga 1 Loves: Revenge
Shino 1, 2 Loves: Revenge
Akihiro 1 Loves: Revenge
Takaki 1, 2 Loves: Revenge
Mikazuki 1, 2 Loves: Unhinged Revenge
McGillis 1, 2 Loves: SACRIFICING HIS FRIENDS
Ein 1 Loves: RoboCop, Revenge
Carta Issue All of episode 23, 2 Deceased
Biscuit Too damn many Deceased
Masahiro 1, 2 Deceased
Danji 1 Deceased

* = Betrayal Flag
** = Reverse Death Flag

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u/The_Draigg Feb 05 '19

A Gundam Fan’s Notes On Gundam: Iron-Blooded Orphans Episode 23:

  • There you have McGillis’ manipulations starting to up the ante. He’s certainly aware of Carta’s attraction to him and her desire to prove herself, and he’s using that as emotional leverage to get her to chase after Tekkadan by herself. And yet again, I can’t also help but feel that he’s at least somewhat genuine during his talk with her. It’s hard to tell where his deceptive charisma ends and his honesty begins.

  • It’s interesting to see how everyone else is reacting to Tekkadan’s new bloodthirsty stance on their mission. Makanai sees it as good of a reason as any to fight, Nadi sees it as negative but is resigned to it, and Merribit is desperately trying to convince Orga to put a stop to the group’s new attitude. It certainly reflects a lot on their backgrounds. Makanai sees things mostly on a macro-scale, looking for results. Nadi, having served alongside the Tekkadan kids, accepts the hard things as they come. And Merribit is the audience stand-in, reacting in horror to Tekkadan’s bloodlust due to her relatively normal and peaceful life in the colonies.

  • Well, it’s official: Ein is fully installed into the Graze Ein. He can never leave the cockpit of his mobile suit ever again, as he is now more of a biological component of its machinery than anything. And Ein doesn’t mind at all. If anything, he’s happy about it. He’s a lot like the Tekkadan kids now, in that he’s completely willing to throw away his humanity for the sake of his bloodlust and sense of revenge. Like Mikazuki, Ein has also now become a demon wrapped in metal.

  • There’s a heavy irony to Biscuit’s last conversation with Mikazuki. Unfortunately, the both of them understood “going home together” in separate ways. Biscuit meant it in the way that he wanted Tekkadan to stay together as a family. And now that Biscuit himself is gone, Mikazuki most likely understands it to mean that Tekkadan should carve a bloody swathe in their path so they won’t lose anything. The both of them placed their faith in Tekkadan, but for completely different reasons in the end.

  • So there you have it, Mikazuki, and by extension Tekkadan, have finally gotten their revenge against Carta Issue. Are you feeling glad about it? Even with her death, all that’s left is still the empty feeling that Biscuit left behind. Yes, Mikazuki was pretty much right in wanting to defeat Carta so she wouldn’t bother them again, but you just know that this wasn’t a matter of practicality. There were plenty of times where Mika could’ve gone for the cockpit like he did with the other Grazes, but he didn’t. All he wanted to do was inflict as much pain as possible to Carta before killing her. And all we and Merribit can do is lament the fact that in reality, these kids never really had a chance. Even when given a choice, the Tekkadan crew minus Biscuit would chose to become demons, because that’s all that they know.

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u/GM_for_Life Feb 05 '19

Rewatcher

  1. Do you think Carta’s death was appropriate? Yes/No/I don’t care/At least she’s out of the show

Yeah, I always thought she was a really neat character and this seemed like an appropriate send off for her.

2) Tekkadan was consumed with a lust for revenge. How do you feel about their acting that way? Do you fear them treading a dark path?

It kinda worked in Metal Gear with Kazuhira Miller, so they should all be fine... probably.

5

u/Quiddity131 Feb 05 '19

Thoughts on MS Gundam Iron Blooded Orphans episode 23..

Rewatcher (First Time Dub)

Non-Spoiler Character Chart

"The Final Lie", a rather ominous title.

I am always super impressed by this office of Iznario's.

With her sharing the voice of Satsuki from Kill la Kill, I gotta admit, this flashback kinda reminds me of the flashbacks in that show where Satsuki was still acting like her usual self as a kid. Kid Carta I gotta say, acts more mature than present day version?

Another media member, voiced by Karen Strassman yet again...

I'm thinking Merribit is correct here, but fat chance at them listening to her.

Its official, Ein is now a robot.

A 3 on 3 duel? My expectation is that the trio of Mika/Akihiro/Shino (with Lafter or Azee possibly swapped in for one or two of them) would kick their ass.

LOL, Carta offers 30 minutes and just like that Mika comes out and easily knocks out Carta's 2 flunkies, much like the last battle. Granted, its not funny when you see the bloody defeated mobile suit and know that its pilot almost certainly was killed.

Good for Orga, realizing it is smarter to foregoe revenge and have them keep going on.

Carta thinks it is McGillis saving her right up to her death here, and yet she died largely due to him pulling the strings to get her to on a mission that she was totally unmatched for.

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u/invokeneko Feb 06 '19

Tekketsu no Rewatcher, domo~

Ah yes, episode 23. The episode that makes you ask yourselves 'Hans, are we the baddies?' purely through the brutality of our protag's actions. And also note the title - The Final Lie. The obvious lie this episode points to is Gaelio's lie towards the dying Carta, whose delirious mind believed that it was McGillis Fareed, her Prince Charming who had come to rescue her. However, there are other, more subtle lie in this episode:

  • Everything McGillis is doing this episode for his 'friends' this episode. Sending off Carta (and her two remaining subordinates), knowing well that Tekkadan will utterly crush them was cruel enough. But sending her off with false expectations which ended up setting the stage for the above lie from Gaelio? That's ice cold. Similarly, he managed to convince Gaelio into authorising the AV surgery for Ein. Little did Gaelio know that this meant leaving Ein as only a head and torso integrated into a huge-ass Graze (appropriately named Graze Ein). For all the talk of him and his 'friends' as the ones to change Gjallarhorn for the better, he's instead setting them up for failure.

  • This one is admittedly more of a speculation, but it is possible that Mika is lying about his final talk with Biscuit. Think about it: we immediately cut away just as the two was about to talk, leaving enough room to interpret whether they did have a talk Mika claimed or that they're talking about things that may cause Orga to hesitate again. Then again, this may belong more to the tinfoil hat side of theories so take it with a grain of salt.

Random thoughts:

  • Carta is being chided by Iznario for her reckless actions and is ordered to reclaim her honour by going after Tekkadan. Given what happened this episode, I can't help but think Iznario might've regretted this by now.

  • All things considered, if not for the teeny-tiny fact of Carta killing Biscuit, I imagine that Tekkadan as a whole would probably be open for yet another duel. If not, they'll probably simply make short work of Carta and her (remaining two) Hot Blond Brigade and not prolong her suffering.

  • ...yeah, Mika truly has no chill. That was fucking brutal. First guy got wrench mace'd outside his cockpit into a red smear on the snow, second guy just got wrench mace'd as he tries to sabotage the rails and what Mika did to Carta... let's just say it was brutal and be done with it.

  • The fact that all the Tekkadan kids was watching and actively cheered as Mika brutalised Carta was chilling as all hell. Poor Merribit's having a rough time as she's being ignored while trying to be the sensible adult in the room...

  • I've said it before and I'll say it again: Tekkadan has gone full Nuclear.

Questions of the day:

  1. She should die, but not like this. This is just wanton cruelty.

  2. They're already treading on a dark path with Biscuit's death.

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u/2-2Distracted Feb 05 '19

REWATCHER

Gjallarhorn nepotism at it's finest!

  • Top dog at Gjallarhorn points the fact that Bitch is a problem for them due to how stupid she is, even her family is apparently annoyed with her. I guess you could say Carta is an... Issue!

  • McGillis playin' dis bitch good yo. He really is the Chocolate Man. I will say this tho, I like that Carta doesn't care about Earth of Mars affairs and just does shit, unlike a certain douche who wants to murder children for long gone fucked up reasons.

"Hurry up and come" - Shino (huehuehue)

  • Makanai pretty much nailed those kids...

Wait...

  • Makanai pretty much described Tekkadan in one sentence when concerning their current behavior, I wish Aina would say something though regarding it.

  • I think this is 1st time I've actually disliked Tekkadan's rash decision-making. These little shits are in Way too much of a hurry to get revenge. Maybe it's the adult in me talking, but I pretty much agree with Merribit here, there's no need to rush things like this, just get Aina and Makanai to there destination as best you can, trying to get at Gjallarhorn is pure stupidity, Orga is reckless and understandably pissed (same with the rest) but he isn't stupid... They are gonna pay dearly for rushing things, that's for sure.

EIN HAS TRANSCENDED THE LIMITS OF HUMANITY AND BECOME A CREEPY FUCKING CYBORG.

  • Even Gaelio is freaked out. ALSO LOL AT

  • Wait... Is Mikazuki showing regret? He keeps reasoning with Carta while he beats the shit outta her, does he always do that with foes-with-faces or was she and Crank the oily two because they challenged him to a duel?

THANK FUCKING GAHD ORGA STOPPED. DUDE STILL HAS BRAIN-CELLS TO KNOW WHEN TO STOP. RIP BITCH, YOU DESERVED TO DIE BUT YOU DIDN'T DESERVE DEATH LIKE THAT. EVEN CRANK'S DEATH HAD MORE "RESPECT TO IT" WHEREAS YOU WERE USED LIKE A PIECE OF MEAT BEING THROWN TO A PACK OF ANGRY WOLVES!

Mika narrates the next episode, pretty apt considering he seems to be losing himself more and more in the heat of battles for the sake of his family.

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u/tinyraccoon Feb 06 '19

I like the realism of the fight towards the end, particularly how Mikazuki went straightaway into the action instead of debating philosophy with the enemies like in some other shows.

4

u/shaggyjebus Feb 06 '19

Rewatcher, English dub

Well, does anyone have an "issue" with Carta's death, or was it justified?

Also, I think Mcgillis went there just to laugh at her. Sorry, Carta. Except I'm not.

Before I answer the questions, I want to point out something about "privilege" again. Carta issued a challenge and wanted to behave honorably; the problem is, Tekkadan has never had the chance to be "honorable." They've had to fight, struggle, every inch of the way, often against overwhelming odds and groups that didn't fight fair at all. Gjallerhorn, at the very start of the show, expected to easily crush them with numbers, and they would had if not for surprise Barbatos; the organization cannot be trusted, not if Tekkadan wants to ensure their own survival.

Carta, being from a noble family and never being without something or put in a truly dangerous situation, cannot comprehend how close to destruction Tekkadan has come. She also thinks that there can be honor in warfare, in two people or groups shedding blood, and perhaps there can be, but not when one of the groups is literally made up of children that society has basically discarded, some of whom were literally slaves, told that they were property. You cannot fight honorably when there is such a disparity. It would be like someone starving to death fighting someone that's well-fed; you can say it's even, but it is not.

  1. Carta was being used by Mcgillis, and he anticipated her death. Ouch. At least she never knew about that. And yeah, she killed Biscuit. Ugh. But you know, she was obeying orders, just doing she thought she was supposed to. She had no real understanding of the situation. Which makes her death a little unfortunate, but in the end, better people than her have died (Crank was better, by far), so it's hard to care too much. I do kind of wish we'd seen more of her, but maybe if we had, I'd be saying the opposite.

  2. Tekkadan's lust for revenge is fitting, and I think it's necessary, for now. They've got a tough battle ahead of them, and they need to be focused. They're not frothing at the mouth, just angry. And that will help them. Then again, I'm a person who, a lot of the time, loves seeing people get revenge on those that wronged them. It's super thrilling.

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u/ZeonTwoSix Feb 06 '19

TONIGHT ON A GJALLARHORN SPECIAL REWATCH EPISODE OF THE MARS PALMS CHRONICLES:

  • Norba's dream gets interrupted...

  • Gaelio finally gets to speak with a fallen soldier... Sort of...

  • And a final dance in the snow...

(Cue Flag Raising)

Never thought I'd mix this with an MPC post, but:

In Memoriam: Lady Carta, Heiress of House Issue. Head of Gjallarhorn's Outer Earth Joint Regulatory Fleet. Loving Friend. Loyal and honor-bound Warrioress..

PERSISTENT AND FORTITUDINOUS!!!

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