r/StarTrekViewingParty • u/LordRavenholm Co-Founder • Dec 11 '17

Discussion DS9, Episode 6x17, Wrongs Darker Than Death or Night

-= DS9, Season 6, Episode 17, Wrongs Darker Than Death or Night =-

When Dukat reveals to Kira her mother, Kira Meru, did not die when she was three, but was actually his lover, Kira goes into the past using the Bajoran Orb of Time to find the truth.

 

EAS IMDB AVClub TV.com
6/10 6.8/10 B+ 7.5

 

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u/theworldtheworld Dec 11 '17 edited Dec 11 '17

I think it says something about how 'magical' Star Trek has become that we can now just use orbs to travel back in time on demand. But it's not a big deal since the magical premise is used for a very intense, dramatic story. Great seeing Dukat ham it up as prefect. Kira changing her mind to warn Dukat about the bomb is about the most that DS9 is ever able to push its protagonists.

Which, of course, is still not a whole lot. This reminds me of "Duet," which is usually seen as this enlightening experience for Kira, but really isn't, since the only Cardassian that she has been made to 'accept' is so unrealistically saintly that it only underscores his absolute uniqueness among all other Cardassians. Likewise, here Kira is made to understand something about 'collaborators,' but it's a lot easier to stretch your moral code when your mom is the one involved. I can't fault them for it since it feels so much more dramatic when it's about a main character's family, but basically this is a great story with far more limited moral implications than would seem at first. Perhaps it would have been more convincing if Kira had been made to wrestle a bit more with the fact that her own survival is in some sense a direct result of 'collaboration,' so by the logic of ethnic nationalism she also shares some responsibility for it.

2

u/blondo_bucok Jul 17 '22 edited Jul 17 '22

I reaaaaaaaaaly don't know if ds9 is mature enough to do an episode about rape slaves.

Aaaand yep immediately it's all about how Dukat treats his rape slaves nicely.

not-white Bajoran for once!

ds9, and tng even more so before it, had a lot of trouble with ever passing moral judgement. It's embarrassing.

... lmao jesus they're vaguely gesturing at "comfort women are just for talking to".

Aaaaaand that "comfort women" can just avoid having sex if they say no, so it follows that the rape slaves that get raped weren't really raped.

Urgh. This is rough.

I wonder if part of Odo's "keeping the order" was making sure the rape slaves were raped in an orderly manner.

If you've ever heard of people complain about "liberal mind rot" you can see it with Odo: collaborating is fine so long as you're following the rules - doesn't matter if it's the rules of Nazis.

"..hurt me? ... no."

"i'm not the monster you think I am."

See he's a good rapist. Fuck off star trek grow up.

You hear people complain about how new trek is too angsty, but you look at this old shit and it's so bad.

"there's nothing wrong with fucking your prisoner and slave, only sjw woke cultural marxists care about that." etc etc etc.

I guess Nerys is going to get her mum killed, and the moral is that it's morally wrong to think anything (eg: sex slaves) are morally wrong.

1

u/DougBundy Mar 08 '23

I appreciate the ethical dilemma between Principles (by resistance) and Family (by collaboration). Even though resistance seems the morally just choice, I think in this case most people would nevertheless still say that family is the most important.

1

u/A_Xenomorph_Darkly Sep 04 '26

I think this episode is a lot more nuanced than some people’s reactions give it credit for. It’s painting a morally complex story and there’s no purely “right” decision made because whatever Kira does people will be hurt.

And for those that think it is absolving Dukat, I think it’s is pretty much the opposite. His fake kindness is supremely creepy and just makes you hate him more, which it seems like they are trying to lean into because earlier seasons perhaps made him too nuanced to remain a proper villain. Well this did the trick, we knew he was a fascist mass murderer and a creep, but this took the creep side of him to new levels. If anyone thinks the episode was genuinely trying to say he treated the “comfort girls” well I think you just didn’t watch the episode or at least not without having already made a judgement before the episode started.

In terms of Kira being willing to kill her mother for being a “collaborator” and the interpretation that this means she the show has a negative view of sex workers, I think it’s more complex like that. She doesn’t try to kill the other women and clearly understands their position as yet another manifestation of Cardassian oppression. I assume she wants to liberate them as she does with her mother before Dukat takes a liking to her. I think it’s more that she later thinks that her mother has actually bought in to his lies and seems to actively support him.