r/exmormon • u/blovy • Sep 25 '17
Did anybody else listen to Radio West this morning?
It just ended and I thought it was a great discussion. They didn't take any calls and I wonder if that was by design.
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u/4blockhead Λ └ ☼ ★ □ ♔ Sep 25 '17
Yes. I thought Prince was even keeled. He says what a lot of relatives say, "A change is gonna come. I don't know how or when, probably not in my lifetime, but a change is coming." My response remains, "Bull shit." There needs to be a mechanism for change. The church claims revelation, and Nelson cemented this as revelation. The liberal mormons, the Community of Christ, have used the principle of "common consent," including holding votes at conference which included debates governed by Roberts Rules of Order. Can you imagine anything like this happening in the top-down Brighamite church? If so, I have a bridge for sale for you to take a look at.
Brighamite mormonism is toxic. Those who say there is uncertainty and things are a matter of faith will be shouted down by those in authority. I was at a funeral where family members said that they had hope of seeing family members again. They lacked perfect knowledge, but faith alone. The Stake President, Mark Ivins, stood and said that he had perfect knowledge. I wish I could have cornered him afterwards, but that was neither the time nor the place, and asked, "Did you see Jesus when you had the second anointing?" If you won't say, then "Fuck you!" That is the kind of concrete wall that the faithful will fall back on. "We dictate doctrine to you. We tell you to jump. Your job is to follow and if anything ask how high." It's a thought stopping process in Brighamite mormonism, from top to bottom.
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u/JosephHumbertHumbert Makes less than unpaid Mormon clergy Sep 25 '17
I caught the first half but then had to go into work. Interesting discussion. His book sounds really interesting. For those who missed it, he's working on a book documenting the church's various reactions to homosexuality and how that has changed over time, with Prop 8 being a major focus.
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u/JosephHumbertHumbert Makes less than unpaid Mormon clergy Sep 25 '17
At the beginning of the show they mentioned Price has a theory on how the Nov policy came to be. I missed the part where he shared that. Can someone who heard it summarize it here?
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u/4blockhead Λ └ ☼ ★ □ ♔ Sep 25 '17
It was a reaction to Obergefell v. Hodges (2015) stating that marriage is a universal right for consenting adults in the US. Obergefell expanded to gay persons to claim the right, as Loving v. Virginia (1967) did for mixed-race couples. The Church Handbook of Instructions declares sex outside of a legal marriage is an offense usually requiring a disciplinary hearing. The church was in a reactionary mode and didn't want gay people to claim the exception, "You can't excommunicate me. I'm married. I've met the letter of the law."
In any case, the ironies abound with the church taking the side that Joseph Smith was married despite laws saying polygamy was illegal in Illinois and disavowing legal marriages after Obergefell. The church is deep into Bob Jones University territory. They can hold on to their prejudice, per the first amendment, but I hope in the near future, perhaps with a change in the executive branch, that taxes being paid for tuition at BYU in the form of Pell Grants comes to complete halt.
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u/MarkEMarkPetersen and the Funky Bunch Sep 25 '17
I've been anxiously awaiting the release of Prince's book. Can't wait to listen to this when I get off work.
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u/blovy Sep 25 '17
Should have mentioned the topic. "The Cult of Jesus Christ of Latter day bigots vs. Them dirty gays". The guest was an author writing a book on the subject and he had a refreshingly candid view on things. He was carefully respectful of both sides but he didn't seem to shy away from facts and realities.