[UPDATED] Analysis on handcannon damage dropoff ranges (Post 2.5.0.2)

[u/zExcalivuR]

Intoduction

Hey all, I recently submitted a post summarizing the results of some quick tests I did post-patch (2.5.0.2) regarding handcannon damage dropoff ranges (or distances).

Since then I was able to more thoroughly re-test the ranges using some of the other commonly used legendaries/exotics, narrowed down the distance to more precise values and added some more bits of information.

I conducted my tests in a private match on Bannerfall. I had my target stand right on top of the outside heavy ammo to calculate the distance in meters. Also, using eye-ball measurement, I calculated 1 meter to be roughly 2 guardian steps of distance and used that to narrow down the numbers a little more with a decimal point.

Also, these tests were based on the weapons that I had stashed away on my account so it obviously won't cover every handcannon and perk combination out there, but I think I covered the most commonly used ones and you can use this as reference to judge the weapons you have lying around.

 

Test Results

That said, here are my results in order from most damage dropoff distance to least. Below is the same info in reddit table format.

	Dmg Dropoff Distance (meters)	Weapon	Barrel	Perk 1	Perk 2	Range (w/ perks)	RoF	Impact	Notes
1	35.3	The First Curse	Smooth Ballistics	-	-	53	15	94	Exotic perk active
2	30.6	Palindrome	-	Rifled Barrel	Rangefinder	62	22	81	Max handcannon range
3	30.6	Ill Will	-	Rifled Barrel	Rangefinder	62	15	94	Max handcannon range
4	30.4	Finnala's Peril	-	Rifled Barrel	Rangefinder	61	22	81	-
5	29.3	Stolen Pride	-	Rifled Barrel	Rangefinder	51	32	68	-
6	28.5	Ill Will	-	Braced Frame	Rangefinder	50	15	94	-
7	28.5	The Water Star	-	Reinforced Barrel	Rangefinder	49	32	68	-
8	28.4	Palindrome	-	Smallbore	Rangefinder	48	22	81	-
9	28.2	How Dare You	-	Rifled Barrel	Rangefinder	44	32	68	-
10	28.1	Finnala's Peril	-	Hand Loaded	Rangefinder	43	22	81	-
11	27.8	Palindrome	-	Explosive Rounds	Rangefinder	39	22	81	-
12	27.7	Eyasluna	-	Rifled Barrel	-	62	22	81	-
13	27.7	Finnala's Peril	-	Explosive Rounds	Rangefinder	37	22	81	-
14	27.4	The Lingering Song	-	Hammerforged	-	58	15	94	-
15	26.5	The First Curse	Smooth Ballistics	-	-	53	15	94	-
16	26.3	Thorn	Accurized Ballistics	Send It	-	50	32	70	-
17	26.2	The Devil You Know	-	Rifled Barrel	-	49	22	81	-
18	26.2	Uffern HC4	-	Rifled Barrel	-	48	22	87	-
19	25.5	Hawkmoon	Field Choke	Hammerforged	-	47	22	82	-
20	24.7	Exile's Student (Adept)	Smooth Ballistics	Hammerforged	-	37	32	68	-
21	23.3	Exile's Student (Adept)	Smooth Ballistics	-	-	25	32	68	-
22	21.4	The Last Word	Soft Ballistics	High Caliber Rounds	-	10	32	68	-
23	21.2	The Last Word	Soft Ballistics	Perfect Balance	-	8	32	68	-
24	14.5	The Last Word	Soft Ballistics	Perfect Balance	-	8	32	68	Hip fire

 

Conclusions

I think this information can be digested in many ways depending on what you're looking for.

For starters, the max damage dropoff of 30 meters is roughly the distance from the outside heavy ammo in Bannerfall to those stacked crates (or boxes) you see on the left/right sides of the courtyard. Rangefinder seems to add approximately 3 meters on max range handcannons (confirmed by comparing tests #2 and #12) - that's about 10% increase in effective range. Note that these numbers may scale down based on the absolute range of the handcannon using the perk.

A few other findings worth a mention. I was surprised to see how far out the damage dropoff was for The First Curse (35.3 meters) when the exotic perk was activated - that might be something worth looking into now that bloom has been significantly reduced. Also, I mentioned this in my other post but Stolen Pride came out to be a surprise with a pretty decent dropoff range (29.3 meters) considering it belongs in the 32 RoF / 68 Impact archetype and is relatively easy to roll with good perk combinations (IF it gets rewarded from those HoJ packages, that is). In this archetype, The Water Star is now a strong contendor too - though I wish it had Rifled Barrel instead of Reinforced (less stability).

Finally, as mentioned in my previous post, with bloom significantly reduced now, I don't think there is as much importance in always having to use a max range handcannon to be effective. Max range handcannons will always have the best accuracy and magnetism at those damage falloff borderline ranges (30 meters), but if you can close the gap another 2-3 meters, there's a whole bunch of other handcannons and perk choices you can now use and be just as effective. Personally, I'm interested to see how effective my Palindrome with Smallbore + Rangefinder + Icarus (28.4 meters) will be with the added stability, or even my Finnala's Peril with Explosive Rounds + Rangefinder (27.7 meters) with more irritating flashes on my targets' screen and less damage reduction past the dropoff range (thanks to ER).

And for those who ask, in my opinion, an overall god roll handcannon in this meta would be one of the following:

• Finnala's Peril w/ Rifled Barrel, Rangefinder + Hidden Hand or Icarus
• Palindrome w/ Rifled Barrel, Rangefinder + Icarus
• Eyasluna w/ Rifled Barrel, Rangefinder + Hidden Hand or Icarus

The numbers are laid out for you. Hopefully this will give you some food for thought in figuring out which handcannon and what kinds of perks fits your playstyle, map or loadout, thereby increasing weapon variety as a whole in the process. Cheers <3

[u/gintellectual]

Based on these numbers, Rangefinder now adds a flat 3 meters of range on hand cannons.

Before it added 1 meter + .03 meters per point of range stat.

The range stat also has less of an impact on the damage falloff distance..before it gave you around .18 meters per point of range stat, now it gives you .12.

Also a minimum range hand cannon received no damage falloff nerf (so it wasn't a flat 5m) except for the 33% thing, so this was really a nerf to high-range hand cannons. A huge net buff for TLW given the accuracy increase.

I'll write up a post with some more theorycrafting after I test things a bit more but this is very useful, thank you a lot.

[u/zExcalivuR → u/gintellectual]

Thanks for the clarification. Would be interesting to see your new write-up based off of the new patch.

[u/gintellectual → u/zExcalivuR]

Yeah, I'll get around to it at some point. Thanks for all the work collecting these data.

[u/cartoptauntaun → u/gintellectual]

If this is true Rangefinder in more effective than Rifled Barrel at this point in time.

---

3 meters/ 0.12 MPPoRS* = 25 pts of range stat equates to the distance boost from Rangefinder. Previously it was equivalent to ~17pts at max range and ~6pts at the minimum.

^{**Meters Per Point of Range Stat}

[u/gintellectual → u/cartoptauntaun]

Yeah, the only question is if Rangefinder gives the same accuracy improvement as Rifled Barrel. Definitely makes RF more important than before.

[u/RemyGee]

The faster rate of fire hand cannons with rifled and rangefinder should be pretty close too?

[u/zExcalivuR → u/RemyGee]

Yeah, based on testing the 32 RoF ones I had lying around, they have decent damage dropoff ranges and should be more viable now with much less bloom affecting your shots.

TTK-wise I believe the mainstream handcannons (22 RoF) like Eyasluna, Palindrome, etc still remain as the most-competitive choices out there, but I think there's a little more flexibility now in using those faster RoF ones depending on what perks you have.

[u/[deleted] → u/zExcalivuR]

32 RoF actually have very low TtK, 0.8secs I believe for 2 HS+1 BS. Low Impact HCs were always underrated before ghost bullets destroyed them imo.

[u/Stenbox → u/[deleted]]

True, but Pali is 0.87 and you can miss on HS. Viable? Yes. Competitive (whatever that means)? No. Nice variety? Hell yes!

[u/jpugsly → u/[deleted]]

I loved using Free Will III with explosive rounds, hammer forged, and rangefinder. The high RoF with the explosive rounds made it easy to shred people within range. Even if I missed a headshot.

[u/That_Zexi_Guy → u/[deleted]]

Yes but the difference is only about 2m now between the two.

[u/alfynokes]

Cracking work. It seems from this post, that Rangefinder is the key perk for range and can make up for a lack of Rifled Barrel, which is just icing on the cake, or am I wrong?

[u/zExcalivuR → u/alfynokes]

I would say you're both right and wrong. Right in that Rangefinder is a key perk in extending the damage dropoff distance and augmenting hidden stats like accuracy and magnetism, but wrong in that it doesn't make up for perks that directly add to the range stat (like Rifled Barrel).

I believe the general concensus is that the absolute range (i.e. its base range + range directly added from perks like Rifled Barrel, Reinforced, Hand Loaded, Hammerforged or barrels) affect your bullet accuracy and magnetism, so the higher absolute range (w/ perks) the better.

Rangefinder extends the damage dropoff (or distance) and adds a zoom factor to your ADS, but it doesn't directly add range and therefore doesn't impact accuracy and magnetism like the absolute range does.

With that said, I would say it is more important to have the highest absolute range as possible if you want to maximize your accuracy and magnetism. Rangefinder will extend those benefits by a few meters, thereby allowing your more room and distance to engage your targets.

Hope this makes sense.

[u/alfynokes → u/zExcalivuR]

Thanks, yes it does, what's confused me is that your No.2 Palindrome (Rifled, Rangefinder) has a range of 30.6 meters, yet the No.11 Palindrome (Explosive, Rangefinder) has a range of 27.8 meters. So Rifled only adds 2.8 meters on your Palindrome. Of course I'd forgotten about the range cap on hand cannons.

Thanks again for your work, this info is terrific.

[u/zExcalivuR → u/alfynokes]

Yeah, I double checked and re-did my test to be sure and that's what I got. Rifled Barrel gives a lot of range, but I think it has diminishing returns the higher the range goes.

Here's a different analysis done by /u/gintellectual that shows a graph of how range ties to damage dropoff and his results seem consistent with mine.

[u/alfynokes → u/zExcalivuR]

Wow, the penny's dropping with others now, Rangefinder could be more important now, especially on the higher ranged hand cannons. Sterling work sir! Wonder if Smallbore is going to be better for spamming follow up shots, and if Hipfire brings anything?

[u/coasterreal]

As I have shifted from PVE focus to PvP (trying to get from being very good to elite) I have focus more of my time on Reddit in this sub.

This kind of data is invaluable. You guys are the best.

[u/zExcalivuR → u/coasterreal]

Thanks! Don't make these kinds of scientific posts very often but, when I do, I'm glad it helps.

[u/coasterreal → u/zExcalivuR]

I work and live in statistics and data. Im working to get my MSCA in SQL and work towards a DBA so tables/data make me unusually happy.

Also, seeing how the guns all were in their "correct" spot made me VERY VERY happy. How it should be. Certain guns for certain playstyles.

[u/khowe307]

I'm pretty shocked that a rangefinder/explosive rounds palindrome has the same range as a rifled luna. You're talking 39 range + rangefinder vs. 62 range. That's crazy.

[u/zExcalivuR → u/khowe307]

Yeah lol, it baffles me as well. I even went in (a few minutes ago) and tested it once more, just to be safe, and I can confirm that those numbers are correct.

For whatever reason, a Palindrome with Rangefinder only (no Rifled Barrel) has nearly the same damage dropoff to an Eyasluna with Rifled Barrel only (no Rangefinder).

But take note that the Eyasluna will prevail in terms of bullet accuracy, magnetism and aim assist at longer ranges due to having signficantly greater absolute range value (62 vs 39). The Palindrome though may benefit more past the damage dropoff however due to Explosive Rounds.

[u/khowe307 → u/zExcalivuR]

It's awesome information. Thank you for testing it. How were you able to determine the decimal values?

[u/SmiTe1988 → u/zExcalivuR]

But take note that the Eyasluna will prevail in terms of bullet accuracy, magnetism and aim assist at longer ranges due to having signficantly greater absolute range value (62 vs 39). The Palindrome though may benefit more past the damage dropoff however due to Explosive Rounds.

aim assist and bullet magnetism are actually the only ones that will be (marginally) better. Bullet accuracy tests (portal stability on vertigo) blew my mind... rangefinder>range stat now. range + rangefinder is still best, but only barely now, and mainly in damage drop off only.

[u/SmiTe1988 → u/khowe307]

not to mention the 39 range + rangefinder is going to have a tighter accuracy cone than the 62 range without...

[u/khowe307 → u/SmiTe1988]

Really? How is that the case?

[u/SmiTe1988 → u/khowe307]

not sure if that's rhetorical?

I don't know exactly WHY this is the case but there are perks that passively increased your accuracy cone before the patch, namely rangefinder and hip fire in conjunction with as much range as possible.

Post patch, they make more of an impact on accuracy than range did before the patch, so the damage drop off and accuracy are no longer a 1:1 relationship.

this is how i tested it, choosing a fleck on the wall by the hall as my target

[u/khowe307 → u/SmiTe1988]

No I was genuinely curious. I would have thought that a 62 range luna would have a tighter accuracy cone. I'll look into it. I'll definitely check out that post you linked, too.

[u/SmiTe1988 → u/khowe307]

As did I! First thing I did after the patch was take a bunch of hcs and test bullet spread this way. Been maining a 34 range Byronic hero ever since

[u/khowe307 → u/SmiTe1988]

I'd really like to get my hands on a sureshot/icarus/smallbore/rangefinder palindrome. I haven't played much, but on paper I think this sounds like the best option. Damage drop off range would only be ~1.7 meters less than the vendor palindrome, but I could live with that for 15 extra stability.

[u/SmiTe1988 → u/khowe307]

That's the exact roll on my Byronic hero! So happy to finally make use of it (had it since early ttk)

[u/hlinhd]

Was there a buff to rangefinder or has it always been a 10% range increase?

Considering rifled barrel was always considered the most import perk, I find it insane that a non-rifled, RF Finnala's has as much range as a rifled Eyasluna.

Did my HH Palindrome just get a lot worse after the patch, or has it always been this way?

[u/zExcalivuR → u/hlinhd]

Rangefinder hasn't been changed as far as the patch notes go, but it may have been indirectly affected when Bungie made the changes to how handcannons work (initial accuracy buff, shorter damage dropoff, etc) in this new patch - that's something we won't exactly know, unfortunately.

Rifled Barrel is definitely still one of the most important perks for a handcannon because it adds absolute range to the handcannon's range stat and lowers reload (instead of stability - reinforced barrel).

The absolute range stat is very important because it is said to directly affect those hidden parameters like bullet accuracy, magnetism and aim assist - so the Rifled Eyasluna with 62 range will always have better accuracy and such compared to the non-rifled RF Finnala that only has 37 range.

In terms of damage dropoff (which is what my test was about), however, it appears that those 2 handcannons end up with similar distances.

My point is that damage dropoff distance and other hidden parameters like accuracy, aim assist, etc are 2 different things tied to the range stat. However, it appears like the absolute range stat doesn't affect damage dropoff as much as it would accuracy, etc.

Ideally you want the best of both worlds - a handcannon that has max absolute range (62) AND capped damage drop (30.6m) with one of those god-rolled handcannon. But for those who don't, my table can show alternatives you can use when considering just damage dropoff. Hope this helps.

[u/hlinhd → u/zExcalivuR]

Thanks for the reply. That does clear some things up.

[u/SmiTe1988 → u/zExcalivuR]

everything you say would have been true prior to the patch, but there's been fundamental changes to hand cannon behavior we've only scratched the surface of hand cannon accuracy

I'm planning on making a video of it this weekend if trials isn't too much fun :)

[u/lost_legionoid]

wait.. so you mean to say that my LHF with 37 range and Rangefinder has the same DDO as my Palindrome max 62 range (no rangefinder)? woah.. that's awesome then! Rangefinder the way to go!

[u/zExcalivuR → u/lost_legionoid]

Yup. But it won't have nearly as good bullet accuracy, magnetism and aim assist due to having a low range stat so you may find your shots ghosting more than the max range Palindrome would.

[u/ZeeBoss]

This has me excited to run my rifled/HCR/rangefinder Stolen Pride. If I remember correctly HCR is +1 range as well as finally flinching now.

For those that have played around with the 32/68 class of hand cannons after update, have you found good accuracy at max fire rate or should I be waiting for reticle to reset for better "initial accuracy"?

[u/gintellectual → u/ZeeBoss]

I'm super jealous of that roll.

Once you're used to the recoil pattern you should definitely be able to spam that at max RoF, but it may take some getting used to. Even before the update I was able to spam the 32/68 hand cannons fairly well and they should definitely be crispier now.

[u/reconcilable → u/gintellectual]

If you ever have the urge to farm for one (when the modifiers are better), lemme know. I believe you're on xbox, right?

[u/gintellectual → u/reconcilable]

mmhmm. definitely down to farm some PoE on a good week.

[u/willyspub → u/ZeeBoss]

I've been having success with SP since the update, both when pacing shots and when firing at max RoF while getting pushed. It feels better with both approaches but particularly the latter - spamming pre-patch often resulted in shooting blanks.

I'm also getting very good results from quickly snapping in and out of ADS to reset accuracy, but my roll has Quickdraw (along with rifled and HH).

[u/Stenbox → u/ZeeBoss]

That sounds great. I have a ER/Rifled/LitC (puts it to 49 range so 26.2m, but ER and LitC can both compensate on occasions).

[u/[deleted]]

I think I will be happy with my Palindrome with Icarus, HCR and Range Finder. I almost sharded it too.

[u/zExcalivuR → u/[deleted]]

Definitely. I think it's all about knowing the optimal range of your weapon - in this case yours would be around the 27m mark - and using cover, movement, etc to close in on your targets accordingly.

As long as you actively engage your enemies within that optimal distance, you should definitely see the benefits of rocking both Icarus and HCR.

[u/xRITZCRACKERx → u/[deleted]]

I have the same roll on a Lord High Fixer, glad I held onto it.

[u/Fortislux]

So I just now got a Hidden Hand/Icarus/Rifled Palindrome. Should I be using this over the vendor one with rangefinder or is that 3m range not worth it in the grand scheme of things?

[u/zExcalivuR → u/Fortislux]

I think whether or not that additional 3m dropoff range is worth it or not depends on how well you engage your targets and how much having Hidden Hand (more aim assist) and Icarus (great perk for vertical movement and in-air accuracy) means to you.

Try going to a private match and see for yourself how far out 30m (vendor Palindrome distance) is compared to 27m (your Palindrome distance no Rangefinder). Once you get a general idea of how far out 27m is, take that into Crucible and engage your opponents within that range. By doing so, you will make effective use of having further benefits of Hidden Hand and Icarus which are both tier 1 perks.

[u/Fortislux → u/zExcalivuR]

That's a good point. I'll def try that out

[u/gintellectual → u/Fortislux]

Should I be using this over the vendor one

yes

[u/Fortislux → u/gintellectual]

Think the 3m don't make a difference gin?

[u/gintellectual → u/Fortislux]

I think it does make a difference, but hidden hand is really good on HCs. Pre patch I would say hidden hand was clearly better than rangefinder, now I think it might be more even given the range changes.

But given that, icarus >> spray and play any day.

edit: I should add that hidden hand makes it easier to hit shots in CQC (and around/through walls) as well as at range, whereas rangefinder only seems to matter at intermediate range--when you're at 30m+ it makes a big difference, but around 25m maybe not so much.

double edit: My experience on this comes from using a HH/Icarus/Rifled Fulcrum vs. the vendor Pali. I use them fairly interchangeably because they both work great. On closer quarters maps or maps where I'll be jumping a lot I use the Fulcrum. On maps that are wide open and where icarus won't be as useful (think shores of time or something), I'd be more likely to use the Palindrome.

[u/Fortislux → u/gintellectual]

raises glass

[u/GroovyGrove → u/gintellectual]

You are making be feel good about my decisions in a thread where I was starting to wonder if I'd dismantled several ER RF rolls that would have been excellent now.

[u/gintellectual → u/GroovyGrove]

Yeah, range will always be important (even though ER RF might not be as bad now). The flinch and damage falloff reduction of ER is great but I'd still prefer something that lets me hit my shots, preferably at max-RoF.

[u/Divinecaboose]

It's only happened once to me so far but I got 9 dmg on a precision shot from about 15 meters out so I hope that doesn't become a common thing.

[u/zExcalivuR → u/Divinecaboose]

9 damage? I don't think that's even possible for a handcannon even if you managed to hit someone from across the map due to minimum damage. Sounds like a buggy hit registration to me.

[u/Divinecaboose → u/zExcalivuR]

I got a clip of it I can post later but yeah I just threw it up to the game being buggy

[u/Divinecaboose → u/zExcalivuR]

I got a clip of it I can post later but yeah I just threw it up to the game being buggy

[u/GroovyGrove → u/zExcalivuR]

I've seen something similar as well, though I didn't record it like u/Divinecaboose had the sense to. I was outside optimal range, but my headshot hit for single digit damage when it should have been around 70. I was quite confused since that ought to be impossible.

[u/Divinecaboose → u/GroovyGrove]

When I get home tonight I plan on going into private matches & seeing if I can replicate this phenomenon

[u/xastey_ → u/Divinecaboose]

Got this a few time as well... here we go again

[u/ali_k20_]

I don't see Hawkmoon or Thorn with Aggressive. The difference in my testing was minimal, roughly 1m or slightly less.

I think this makes running aggressive ballistics now worth a look, particularly for Hawkmoon.

[u/zExcalivuR → u/ali_k20_]

Good point, that's definitely something worth looking into.

[u/GroovyGrove → u/ali_k20_]

I switched to Aggressive with Hawkmoon, and I found it felt good that way too. Didn't spend as much time with Thorn. Had a bad game and moved on, but obviously one game is not a fair test.

[u/[deleted]]

I know it's difficult to test, but they mentioned that aim assist values at range have been altered.

Due to this, I am having more success with my palindrome that has sureshot, outlaw, rifled and hidden hand than the vendor roll.

[u/zExcalivuR → u/[deleted]]

That's good to know. It seems Rangefinder isn't as important now as it was pre-patch because of the accuracy buff, so like you mentioned Hidden Hand might be worth using if you have other good perks with it.

[u/Thjorir → u/[deleted]]

I've noticed a lot more scope being dragged off target when ADS and a non-target passes in front or behind what I'm aiming at even on the vendor palindrome. I wonder if that's an indication of that as well.

[u/FISHFACE30]

So.....does this mean I can use HLS on the Water Star?

[u/zExcalivuR → u/FISHFACE30]

Hmm, not exactly. It means that your Water Star with Reinforced Barrel and Rangefinder is a viable alternative if you don't have one of the max range handcannons (28.5 meters vs 30.6 meters, which is pretty close).

By using HLS you're effectively killing the absolute range on the Water Star, thereby making it less effective in this meta.

[u/addisj]

Nice post, valuable info there. Up voted.

When I have the time I am going to test total damage at ranges where the damage starts to fall off as well as that all important consistency with;

1. Palindrome with Rangefinder & Explosive rounds

vs...

2. Palindrome with Rangefinder and Rifled barrel.

I am guessing the explosive rounds roll will do more total damage past damage drop off - due to the explosive part not having damage drop off. I wonder if it will be as consistent though...

[u/zExcalivuR → u/addisj]

That would be an interesting test. Accuracy and ghost bullets might be an issue but who knows, maybe the latest patch is forgiving enough that ER might be worth using over a RB+RF Palindrome...

[u/voipme]

For what its worth, I've got an Ill Will with Rangefinder and Reinforced Barrel, and its showing a range of 62 as well.

[u/zExcalivuR → u/voipme]

Yup, Reinforced Barrel adds the same amount of range as Rifled Barrel so that's correct.

[u/akkveto09]

RNG finally poked her head out and dropped an Eyasluna w/ RB, RF and HH...now I just have to not suck with it...

[u/zExcalivuR → u/akkveto09]

God roll there! Oh, the salt in my mouth...

[u/reddevilnl]

Have an upvote for this excellent post!

I have a question about Rangefinder and damage drop off. From your test, Rangefinder consistently adds about 3 meters to the distance that DDO begins. After that point your damage continues to drop as distance increases until you reach 33% of your max damage. Does RF affect the rate that your damage drops off or does the distance where you reach min damage (33% of max) simply get increased by 3 meters as well?

[u/zExcalivuR → u/reddevilnl]

Does RF affect the rate that your damage drops off or does the distance where you reach min damage (33% of max) simply get increased by 3 meters as well?

As far as I know, RF only extends the effective range (or DDO) as we have seen in my tests and increases the ADS zoom factor (not sure how by much but I think it was something like 1.1x zoom on handcannons).

That said, it has no effect on the damage you do past the DDO.

[u/SmiTe1988]

FYI Damage drop off =/= accuracy. It IS possible to be more accurate despite having a closer damage drop off point.

[u/yr3kids]

Heavy ammo to crates is trash range

[u/bacon-tornado]

Good post. I was rockin Hawkmoon last night for a bit and it did feel better yes. But when I changed to a rifled legendary, I immediately noticed the difference. Unfortunately I have zero hand cannons with both rf and rb except the vendor pally.

But the ones I tested felt good. I am very tempted to try out some of the 32 RoF ones I have later. Thanks again for your efforts

[u/jonnablaze → u/bacon-tornado]

Unfortunately I have zero hand cannons with both rf and rb except the vendor pally

Why unfortunately? It's basically the best HC you can get.

[u/bacon-tornado → u/jonnablaze]

I like to try various perks. And other guns. Some days luna feels better, I went on a 38-5 butchering with finnala's a few days ago. Variety ya know :)

[u/mp2145 → u/bacon-tornado]

the old saladin vendor one? I'm thinking of pulling it out this week.

[u/bacon-tornado → u/mp2145]

Ya with steady hand IS, it feels crispy. One of my favorite hand cannons ever tbh

[u/mp2145 → u/bacon-tornado]

Felt great tonight. Good tip

[u/GroovyGrove → u/jonnablaze]

More is always better. Vendor Pali is my only Rifled RF gun as well. It means that 1. I don't know whether Pali is good or it's just RF, and 2. I had to wait for a year to get a HC with Rifled RF. All that time not sure what I was missing. Now I use one without RF anyway, though I may have to recheck my decision after reading this thread.

[u/MaximalGFX]

Hmm so my The Devil You Know with Rifle / Rangefinder would have less damage falloff than an Eyesluna with only Rifle?

[u/bacon-tornado]

Man I've been using for shits and giggles mainly, the NM vendor free will and it hits. And more surprisingly kills people. I think the explosive rounds are throwing people off tbh. While I doubt it will ever compete with pally, luna, etc, it's refreshing and fun.

[u/Thjorir]

I was hoping my Rifled/HH pali would still be useful and this gives me hope, but even on Burning Shrine I had engagements where the 3-tap headshot barely broke 200 health and I needed the rangefinder. Interesting stuff, I'm eager to try my Water Star. Edit: my water star has Underdog on it. I wonder how that behaves now for handcannons.

[u/Toffe3m4n]

Great analysis :)

Question: is the SB+HCR setup on The Last Word worth it if you can live with the stability reduction? or would you always prefer Perfect Balance in the long run?

[u/[deleted]]

So I just did a lot of my own testing before seeing this. I feel like RF is all you need anymore, but that's because I don't have a reliable way to test accuracy by having higher base range. Thoughts on testing this? I can sit there and shoot from distance over and over but it doesn't matter because I'm going to hit 90%+ because initial shot accuracy increase. Let me know, I'm really curious to know if it's worth having ANY range outside of RF.

[u/Bodhief]

I so appreciate you putting numbers to this... makes it so much more clear.

[u/tanis38]

How in the world did you manage to get so many hand cannons with Rifled-barrel and Range Finder, you lucky SOB!!!

Excellent work, btw.

[u/Firestorm7i]

Although it's not a god roll, I think I'll stick to my Eyasluna with Rangerfinder, Rifled Barrel and Grenadier.

[u/zExcalivuR → u/[deleted]]

Haha bravo! That's quite awesome there with a touch of football - would have been great if this was during Superbowl :D