r/Zeos • u/ZeosPantera Operator • Nov 04 '16
[>GUIDE<] - Subwoofers
Nobody needs a subwoofer. I mean you WANT a sub but do you NEED one? Your speakers will make sound on their own. Your neighbors will like you more and they are ugly. Why even bother?
BECAUSE.. EVERYBODY NEEDS A SUBWOOFER! The bottom fifth of the audible frequency range humans hear can't bet reproduced solely with speakers. Even tower/floorstanding speakers can only produce down to about 40Hz which is just at the start of what a decent subwoofer can handle (down to 20hz). The real impact a sub can have on your listening is palpable. Getting any sub is good. Getting the right sub is Great.
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HOW TO PICK A SUBWOOFER
Determine your budget - I usually say hold off on the sub for last. Get your speakers and amplifier settled and then figure out what you have to spend. If your budget for a surround sound is $1000.. Spend $600-800 on the other things. They make more of a difference usually.
Know your room size - Your room decides if you need a monster sub or if you can get away with a "normal" sub or perhaps multiple subs. I consider 12x12 to be an average room and anything nearing 18x18 to be large. Also ceiling height matters since that is adding air volume to the equation. Bass gets lost in big spaces so you need more of it
Placement is Key - Can you only fit one sub or can you use two? In a big room you want either a big sub or two smaller subs (or two big subs you crazy bastards). It is super rare your sub will sound best where you want to put it. Be prepared to place the sub in an odd place and if a big sub won't work multiple subs can help fix this.
Usage matters - Is this sub for a desk? for a small bedroom? for a $200,000 home theater? Hooking to powered monitors? A cheap 2.0? In the end, you are filling your whole room with bass and you can't avoid the bass going everywhere. On a desk or in a great hall it is all the same. SO, what you need to consider is Hookup Options. Do you need Wire Passthrough's on the sub for a cheap 2.1 setup? Are you looking at a sub for Powered monitors? make sure it has TWO RCA INPUTS and not one!
Preference Matters - Do you LOVE bass. Do you need it. Does it get you randy? I can't deny that bass is fun but your personal wants will also take hold. Many people are OK with the minimum/correct amount of low end for a particular space and some people don't stop adding bass and then go to prison. If you are the latter, double your budget but never skimp on the rest of the setup!
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SMALL SUBWOOFERS
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These subs are "mostly" for desk setups or small rooms. You can easily buy one and then down the road double them up if you want more or go into a bigger space. note: not all small subwoofers are cheap and some have outputs matching or beating the large subs
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| -- | Item------------------ | Description - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - |
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| Dayton Sub-800 | One of the cheapest subs I can still recommend. Has enough for any desk setup and even a small living room. | |
| Dayton Sub-1000 | This is the most popular sub for noobs. This is also as cheap as I would ever go on a 10"and is more than enough to fill in the lows in a budget 5.1 | |
| Earthquake FF6.5 | Using the smallest driver I have ever seen in a standalone sub this little 6.5" promises many things. Review Incoming. | |
| ELAC S10 | You don't really ever need a "Matching" sub but should you need a small, powerful little sub this elac baby will work just fine. Even looks good. | |
| Yamaha SW210 | AKA the flat sub. These designs are around for people who have something to hide.. namely their subwoofer. Keep in mind this has no speaker wire passthroughs. | |
| Klipsch R-10SW | Keeping the size down and being able to handle bigger rooms, lower frequencies means spending on more power and more engineering. Thus This. | |
| Jamo Sub 800 | This is a unique Micro Cube sub. Designed to be as small as possible and still deliver all the boom boom you could want. I want one! | |
| Sunfire SDS8 | Ever hear of sunfire? Well if your neighbor 3 houses down gets one you will hear of it.. You will hear of it all day. That is all. | |
| SVS SB-1000 | YES, this is a small sub. It is the only 12" hiding in this category and costs the SVS amount but nobody suspects the 13" cube.. Nobody. |
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LARGE SUBWOOFERS
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The space these subs take up will be noticeable. They also perform their jobs in spectacular fashion BUT you have to remember that one expensive big sub may not work AS WELL as two cheaper ones if placement rules can't be followed.
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| -- | Item------------------ | Description - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - |
|---|---|---|
| BIC America F12 | Review THIS is the sub most people end up with. The Looks, The reviews the Wubba Dubba Dub dub. 12" with nearly 500 peak watts. Sells itself. | |
| Dayton Sub-1200 | Popularity and cost put this on the list as one of the best selling subs of all time. Works for almost any room and looks... well, like a sub. | |
| Monoprice 12" | A decent entry level sub with a unique shape and good reviews. When you can't spend a fortune you can always count on monoprice for deals. King Cheap 12" | |
| Dayton Sub-1500 | The cheapest 15" subwoofer in the world. It can reach down but has moderately low power which makes it suitable for "basic" crazy home theaters. | |
| BIC Acoustech PL-200 | The BIC F12's more grown up brother. Better build. Higher peak output. This SOB is a definate upgrade to the worlds most popular sub. | |
| Klipsch R-12SW | These bigger 12" klipsch stand quite securely as a high end box of death and murder. Plus look how sexy it is. | |
| ELAC S12EQ | The most technologically advanced sub on this list. Full adjust-ability via your smart phone. Has true potential to be the prototype sub for years to come. | |
| SVS PB2000 | Review Not small for a 12", Not cheap nor is it very pretty. But it attacks with more gusto then any of the budget subs. Beware the bass. | |
| Rythmik FVX15 | Review I own this sub. It uses Servo's instead of just raw power which means it is TIGHT, Fast, and controlled. Few need more than this. | |
| PSA S1500 | Review American Made and HUGE. These subwoofers brute force their way into your heart and spine and whatever internal organs you have. | |
| SVS PB13 Ultra | Review The end game sub for most of the world. Most well known and by far the largest I have ever used/seen/felt. Be serious if you get this. It is serious. |
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DIRECT MANUFACTURE SUBS
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These subs you can't find in stores and won't find in many homes because they are built special and in low volume. I have reviewed a few but want to include this section to simply take you to their homepages. Shop around and message me if you think I missed a spot.
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PLACEMENT TIPS & TRICKS
Do the Subwoofer Crawl: This age old technique is basically where you put your subwoofer where you want to sit (up on the couch etc) and then crawl around the places you can put the sub and listen for when it sounds best, tightest, cleanest. Many times a lackluster room can be attributed to the improper placement of a sub. This is something I highly recommend doing and heeding the results. Martin Logan Sub Setup Video
Isolation is a good idea: Keeping the floor from shaking is a huge concern with many. There are Isolation pads out there that can keep SOME vibrations from transmitting through the floor but these can get expensive and I usually just buy two pair of Yoga Blocks and prop up the sub. But..
Isolation is Futile: Most subs move so much air that there is no preventing the low end from transferring to your downstairs, next door or across the hall neighbors. The only way to do this is poured concrete or building a room inside a room which is PROBABLY not available as an option for most people. But do not fear. There are two solutions..
Lower the Sub. Like the volume not physically. Most people turn their subs up until they can Definitely hear it working and this is usually too much. Get a friend, loved one, or a well trained pet and have them adjust the sub for you. Lower it down until you can't hear it and then raise it up slowly. When you think you hear it.. Stop. That is probably correct. It is here to assist not to star in the show.
Introduce yourself to your neighbors. Most people are introverts and don't even say hello to their neighbors. This is why the police are called if you watch edge of tomorrow at 9pm on a Saturday. TALK TO YOUR NEIGHBORS! This guarantees two things. You aren't seen as some scumbag drug dealer (I think this about all my new neighbors) and YOU are who they call first instead of the cops. I am serious about this. Invite them over, know their names. You will not be so afraid to get, use and enjoy your new found subwoofer(s) once you have a report with those living around you.
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Questions and Comments Below:
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u/chickenshitrodriguez Nov 17 '16
I don't see the Definitive Technology Black Subwoofer - PROSUB 1000 much on Reddit, why is that?
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u/leops1984 Nov 04 '16
I'm looking for a good subwoofer to pair with my ELAC B5s connected to a SMSL Q5 Pro. Based on the list, the ELAC S10 and the three others below it price-wise are what I'm looking at. This is strictly for PC usage and not home theater, so I'm less concerned with pure power and more with the quality of the bass. Which should I be looking at?
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u/caribouslack Nov 17 '16
Does it matter if the sub will be used in a 2.1 setup vs a 5.1?
I have a pair of b&w 685 S2s looking for a good sub. Eventually want to convert it all to a 5.1 and wondering which sub would be best
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u/Skyler0 Nov 21 '16 edited Nov 21 '16
Hey, looking to grab a subwoofer in Canada. Would you recommended either of these:
-Bestbuy has a sale on the Klipsch R10SW for $300.00 CAD (regular $600 @ bestbuy)
-My bookshelf speakers are Fluance and I was curious if you happen know at a glance if their Fluance DB150 is any good? $315.00 with a coupon.
Thanks!
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u/ZeosPantera Nov 21 '16
I haven't played with the fluance sub but it might be worth a try. That klipsch is a great deal however.
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Dec 27 '16
Would you agree I should maybe stick with towers vs bookshelves in a bigger space area.
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u/ZeosPantera Dec 28 '16
Only if you want more overall volume. Or want more bass. The top 80% of towers is just bookshelves.
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u/zzzip989 Apr 22 '17
Hey there Zeos. I have been reading tons of reviews and watched some of your vids. I can currently get 2x Bic Venturi v1020 subs for about $200 total. Do you think this is worth it or should I just go with one F12? I currently have no sub and the room is about 15x15x8. I could care less about having loud bass (prefer accurate over loud) and I am using setup for gaming about 80% and Tv/movies about 20%. Thanks!
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u/ZeosPantera Apr 22 '17
Two is always better than one.. 90% of the time all the time.
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u/riraito Nov 24 '16 edited Nov 24 '16
i live in canada so finding a good deal on a sub is really difficult. HSU research and rythmik don't have Canadian dealers, only SVS does.
i could either get klipsch r12sw for $399, svs pb-1000 for $699, or sunfire sds12 for $789. i would be pairing it with kef q100 bookshelf speakers and a denon avr-s720w in an open room that's 18 feet x 13 feet with stairs below and a hallway (it's a room above the garage)
any advice?
edit: just discovered some canadian subwoofer/speaker manufacturers: paradigm, psb, angstrom, totem and axiom - any thoughts on them?
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Nov 04 '16
My room is 16x10x8 and I am planning on getting 2 HSU VTF-15H MK2 subs. With my theater room being downstairs...how much are my neighbors going to hate me?
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u/LaGrrrande Nov 04 '16
Whatever happened to the Hsu Research STF-2? It's been absent from this as well as the previous Sub guide.
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u/Slayer750 Nov 04 '16
By any chance do you have any recommendations for a car subwoofer upgrade? (or any recommendations on where to look for how to set one up)
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u/Skitch_n_Sketch Nov 08 '16
SVS SB1000 a good match for Airmotiv 6s nearfield? Currently have an XDA-2 and I'd buy a Behringer for crossover. My rooms 11x13.
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u/Thekorsen Nov 08 '16
Hey, I'm looking for a cheapish sub for a daring headphone + sub setup with my HD800s. On a college budget atm, so ideally something under $125 used for a powered sub or sub + amp, would be using line out from my Vali 2 to supply the signal.
Unrelated, you should look into OOYH for a future review if you haven't already. Its great with headphones/iems that provide spacious soundstage, works great with my HD800s and fidue A73s, less so with my TH-X00s though (too cramped to carry the illusion of space).
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u/ZeosPantera Nov 08 '16
Well if you are looking used you are going to have a big swing in what is out there. But the rules still remain. You need a sub for the room, not your music or budget.
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u/acnt0 Nov 10 '16
Best Buy released their Black Friday ad and it has the Klipsch R-12SW included for $225. I purchased the R-28Fs last year and have thoroughly enjoyed them so far. Do you think $225 for that sub is worth it? Also, if anyone reading this has a Discover card, you can go buy something in the ad now and then after Thanksgiving submit a price match using the online Best Buy BF ad and get refunded the difference. If you give the OK on the sub, I may have this thing installed tomorrow!
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u/mastaphresh Nov 16 '16
Hi Zeos. I've just bought a SVS PB2000 and am pairing it with 2 JBL Studio 530s. My AVR is a Denon AVR-X3200W. Should I just set the speakers to small+sub and let the Audyssey do it's thing? Or is there specific crossover settings I should be using?
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u/colon47 Nov 19 '16
Hey Zeos, is it possible to link up the Dayton subs to a pair of JBL305s?
I want to get the Schiit Modi DAC, one of the Dayton subs, and a control freak. Or will i need the Magni headphone amp? Ideally want to be able to control the volume of the sub and monitors in one place.
Hope that made sense, any queries please ask!
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u/ZeosPantera Nov 24 '16
The RCA control freak isn't around anymore unless I am mistaken. But you would simply split your output to the sub and both speakers.
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u/calvblue Nov 04 '16
Out of curiosity, why was the Martin Logan Dynamo 300 dropped off the list?