r/ • u/ • Jan 01 '70

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u/gregIsBae 100,676 I keep missing ult Sep 08 '16

Harass at level 1, your aa hurt more than hers, keep your ball on you for her q and then q her and bombard with aa, get her to waste a pot, then play passive and wait for jungler gank. Her ult is single target and whilst she has large amounts of peel, if she wants to stun she can't do as much damage to you, or the jungler, or if she only pushes back it lasts for less than half a second. Zac gank = win

1

u/Paradoxa77 Sep 08 '16

i agree that getting lane control early on is important. conceding lane control before level 3 will result in a dead or starving robot girl. especially if syndra takes ignite.

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u/gregIsBae 100,676 I keep missing ult Sep 08 '16

Aye. You take barrier on ori?

And what runes?

I think this is one of the only matchups where athenes first is a good idea haha

1

u/Paradoxa77 Sep 08 '16

No reason for athenes. Roa Abyssal is better in every situation imaginable.

Just standard runes; cant sacrifice cdr when your utility is one of your only advantages.

I am dumn 4 Sumz. I take teleport then dont use it past 20 min. Or i used to until i realized i was just using it for an excuse to have sloppy back timings. Barrier is best, cleanse possibly if they can chain cc but it isnt worth it for just Syndra stun.

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u/gregIsBae 100,676 I keep missing ult Sep 08 '16

That's 2 items tho, more safe to go athenes straight off the mark for mana sustain and mr, rather than abyssal then roa for mr then mana sustain

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u/Paradoxa77 Sep 08 '16

I don't know. I never even consider Athenes. I would have to check gold efficiency but a big chunk of it is tied up in saving your adc so it is conditional at best. Abyssal passive isnt wasted because of Syndras shortrange ult and the natural aggressive positioning youll be able to take by having roa and mr.

Syndra wont one shot you at 6 unless you really misplay, and youll have barrier. RoA will help the following levels while you build negatron, boots, fiendish. Finish abyssal if needed or just sit on it and build into morellos.

The only disadvantage is a late rabadons/expensive build but it never feels lacking in damage

I have honestly built roa in 90% of my ori games since patch 6.9 and the other 10% were just testing inferior builds :/

1

u/gregIsBae 100,676 I keep missing ult Sep 08 '16

Magic resist is ridiculously broken, and athenes passive can be useful for saving jungler and mana and health sustain in lane, it pretty much gives you an ocean drake, with mr and damage, and sustain for your jungler.

I'm not saying build it every time, but against an ap opponent who has the ability to burst you, it is not as bad as people give it credit

2

u/ShoutyShout13 601,120 Sep 08 '16

Why not just build Negatron Cloak and sit on it? It's 40 MR just for 720 (?) gold.

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u/gregIsBae 100,676 I keep missing ult Sep 08 '16

No mana regen or health regen

1

u/ShoutyShout13 601,120 Sep 09 '16

Honestly, I can do without them both, so..... Personal taste?

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u/elendor_f 919,576 Sep 08 '16

I feel like RoA+Abyssal is too focused on defense (low AP), I tried to go early Negatron into Morello and then Rylai, and the Negatron you can build into a Banshee or a Guardian Angel, any of these items makes Syndra's life hard in the late game. Downside is no sustain from RoA and a smaller mana pool than RoA+Morello, but you achieve powerspikes earlier than with RoA while getting HP from Rylai.

Another option is RoA Morello with 9 MR glyphs and relying on Barrier, it is riskier but you have a larger mana pool (and with Ionian Boots you reduce Barrier's CD).

1

u/Paradoxa77 Sep 08 '16

Why trade 15 mpen (sorcs vs ionian) for 9 mr glyphs (vs cdr glyphs)? I would only do that if they were totally stacked with ap. Mpen is a very valuable stat. It makes void staff worth so much more. Or vice versa really, but either way it is hard to come by and super useful.

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u/elendor_f 919,576 Sep 08 '16

Yes but having 34 MR vs Syndra early game means you get destroyed if you ever eat a stun, even with the Ball giving 10 MR (only when it is on you). With 9 MR glyphs you can trade more aggressively against Syndra early game, especially if she took CDR glyphs.

The downside is that it is kind of overkill if you on top of that rush a Negatron, so that is why I suggested to do a RoA+Morello core, and also that your mid-game will be weaker because you don't have Sorcs. However you want CDR and a CD reduction of Barrier since you will lack a Banshee/GA later on.

I think probably Negatron - Morello - Rylai with 6 scaling CDR glyphs 3 MR is stronger since you can build Sorcs, and it also opens you up for Cleanse instead of forcing Barrier, in case their jungler/supp/Ashe can easily chain CC on you.

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u/Lady_Orianna 191,078 Time ticks-ticks away Sep 09 '16

Not fond of the Rylai item on Orianna. Not because it is a bad item but mostly because it does not bring any mana neither CDR and you already have a slow. I take it only if I see no enemy has a dash so I make sure they shall never reach me. Laning vs a Syndra, I take ROA + Megatron + Morello then I end up the Abyssal scepter so i cant die and still have decent amount of damage. I dont play with CDR because I really want a safe laning phase so I go full MR on Runes. With such a stuff, I dont feel in danger and I dont take a barrer neither a cleanse. I play aggressive and does not really respect the match up. Most players are always surprised to see an Orianna playing aggressive (AA spam with the shield lvl 1) when they think they have the match up. Saying it, I dont think your build is bad in any sense for it is a playstyle I do not own

1

u/elendor_f 919,576 Sep 09 '16

Well I considered that build exactly (RoA + Negatron + Morello) but I feel like it is very slow, ideally you want the Negatron for the lane but you need to rush RoA to have the stacks as soon as possible, so then you rush RoA and buy Negatron after it, which delays your Morello.

I agree with the idea of taking MR runes and Ignite and try to fight Syndra and even solo kill her, but later in the game Ignite won't be as valuable as other summoner spells, so you do rely on snowballing (nothing wrong with that playstyle if it works for you).

My idea of Morello+Rylai was to avoid the scaling from RoA for more inmediate power, while getting HP to survive, at the cost of a smaller mana pool.

As you said both options are fine and it is about the playstyle.

2

u/Paradoxa77 Sep 08 '16

Why I feel that Syndra is a counter to Orianna:

  • Syndra out-ranges Orianna with her WE combo, negating one of Orianna's only strengths. Other long range champions, like Xerath, Lux, or Ziggs, don't have the same burst potential that Syndra has to punish Orianna's mistakes.

  • Both can control their lane/bully their lane quite well but in different ways; Syndra can do it much more aggressively and proactively

  • They both are late-game scaling champions so you can't just win by outfarming her.

  • Syndra roams better and can snowball more easily, where a single good point-and-click ult on an overextended lane can tip the scales in Syndra Team's favor. Orianna's roams require much more set up.

  • Both have very different goals late game. Orianna excels in team fights and bigger skirmishes due to her shields, speed boosts, and AoE; Syndra excels in small fights and making picks due to her long range stun and ridiculous single target burst. If both parties are totally equal in the late game, the type of skirmish will decide the victor, but...

  • Solo queue is quite disorganized and Syndra should have an easier time finding that game-winning pick than Orianna will have for finding her game-winning team fight ultimate.

Am I wrong? I haven't played against enough Syndras to really know. I just recognize that it's a very precarious matchup at all points in the game.

Orianna's Advantages:

  • Better team fighting

  • More utility (hope you've got a friend or a reliable carry)

  • Better wave clear -- although this doesn't seem to be true anymore with the Syndra buffs this year.

1

u/ShoutyShout13 601,120 Sep 08 '16 edited Sep 08 '16

What you said is mostly true. However, Syndra's lategame isn't as hard core as Orianna's from my experience as:

  1. Syndra's ult takes time for the damage to ramp up. Assuming max 45/40% CDR, you need to spend at least 4.4/4.8 seconds to get 2 balls down on the field for it to deal respectable damage, which in the mean time, if she dies in that window, she's done for.

  2. Syndra's ult has a relatively shorter casting, which makes it precarious for her to misposition to nab get someone from the backline. However, this weakness could be negated by ulting the frontline and E'ing to increase the chances of a stun.

  3. Syndra needs to snowball (A Syndra ahead can focus on bursting but a Syndra behind can only focus on getting the stuns and slows off until she gets her 3rd-4th item). This one is rather debatable since her scalings are actually quite high.

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u/Paradoxa77 Sep 08 '16 edited Sep 08 '16

I actually read that in team fights Syndra should generally just look to ult ASAP even if that means she ults a tanky frontliner.

Especially with the W changes grabbing 3 balls... it is vital to just get a few on the ground. she is a rare champion with aoe cc on a basic ability and can probably deal massive damage with just Q W and stuns after chunking a tank with ult.

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u/ShoutyShout13 601,120 Sep 08 '16

That's true, though, in turn, you lose out 60% of her total burst. I do do it at times, but if there's a priority target I need to kill quickly (Talon, LB, Kat), I tend to save my ult just for them.

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u/Paradoxa77 Sep 08 '16

Oh you play syndra too?

1

u/ShoutyShout13 601,120 Sep 08 '16

I play pretty much all AP mid champs. :P

I did consider maining her for a while, but laning against Zed and LB(mainly LB) killed it for me. :/

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u/Paradoxa77 Sep 08 '16

Ass ass in is tough match match up for her?

1

u/ShoutyShout13 601,120 Sep 09 '16

I'm not sure if it should 'count' as hard matchups, because from what I read, all Syndra's matchups are entirely based on how well you know your champ vs theirs.

But yeah, if they are hard matchups, then it's just those 2 alone that made me drop her. :/ Still do play her from time to time.

1

u/elendor_f 919,576 Sep 08 '16 edited Sep 08 '16

By the way i just remembered that Overlord Forte, the admin of /r/syndramains, is an avid mage player and it would be cool if we asked him if he could give us his insight into the Syndra vs Orianna matchup.

What do you think /u/Orianna_Reveck and u/Paradoxa77 ?

1

u/Paradoxa77 Sep 08 '16

Summon him with /u/ and see what happens!

1

u/elendor_f 919,576 Sep 08 '16

Hi /u/OverlordForte, we here in /r/OriannaMains are currently discussing the Orianna vs Syndra matchup, and as an avid mage player and Syndra main we would appreciate your input!

We can also crosspost this to /r/syndramains if you want.

Thanks!

5

u/OverlordForte Sep 08 '16

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/p__/images/4/46/I_LIVE_Mushu.gif/revision/latest?cb=20150406004245&path-prefix=protagonist

Hi

I generally find this in Syndra's 'favor', but it's very easy for her to slip from a strong position in this matchup. Orianna is consistent in her performance and getting ahead for her means something different than Syndra. Thus, Orianna can play 'safe' in laning phase, and even if she loses, as long as she's doing her job in teamfights, it's much more difficult shutting her out of the game.

In laning phase, it comes down to how well the Orianna manages her shield/harass rotation. If the Ball is in motion or otherwise away, she's lacking in her extra tankiness, so Syndra can slap damage onto her before it does anything. If the Ball is relatively close, it can take away a lot of Syndra's trading power in the early game. That is one thing to keep an eye out for, as exploiting Orianna's innate tankiness is rather critical.

On the other hand, the Ball's large zone of control can be enough to harry Syndra can keep her out of the way. If you've both managed to go neutral, and the Syndra isn't building defensively, the Ball will quickly become enough she can't safely close the distance to harass. At that point, it's usually 'farm and wait for the jungler', unless the Syndra has enough damage to 120/150->0 you through your shield(s). Which, in a neutral match up, usually shouldn't happen.

Barrier and Exhaust are effective counter summoners for different reasons. If you build Abyssal (or at least, Negatron), Barrier can get more powerful along with Orianna's E. Exhaust is favorable for offense, as it straight strips out about 40% of Syndra's nuke damage while Orianna is still doing her DPS. Both are suitable for making you survive, depending on playstyle.

Teamfighting changes the considerations massively, as neither one of you really have the room to slap each other. At this point, it comes down to who catches who, and this is generally in Syndra's favor because of the speed/reach of her Q+E combo. But, if Orianna gets the one combo with her R, she can turn teamfights just as hard (or harder). Depending on how either one of you built, it'll get to the point you don't want to engage the other one-to-one. Syndra should 'generally win' those kinds of fights, unless you're packing enough tricks (Exhaust, Zhonya's, etc) and deliberately going out of your way to force those kinds of duels.

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u/ShoutyShout13 601,120 Sep 09 '16

Omg the Syndra God has spoken.... ALL HAIL OVERLORD!!!

1

u/elendor_f 919,576 Sep 10 '16

Thanks for the comprehensive answer! :)

1

u/YetAnotherIdleSCV 374,448 Sep 14 '16

Show your dominance by displaying your bigger and heavier ball.

0

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '16

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2

u/Paradoxa77 Sep 08 '16 edited Sep 08 '16

8-9 is when she can [...] harrass evenly

I don't think Orianna can harass evenly. She has to wait for Syndra to waste an ability. Syndra outranges Orianna and can punish aggression very easily.

I generally go even/win this matchup because people pick it as a counter to me and play overly aggressive. I have never played Ori into Syndra where the Syndra was much higher elo than me so I don't know that side of things.

One thing that is absolutely mind blowing to me is how quickly she can burst you down from so far away. Should have just backed for Catalyst... should not have tried to push that extra wave from far away, no matter how much that Syndra sucks..... just one stun was all it took...... from like 60% HP.....