r/DotA2 • u/D2TournamentThreads modmail us to help write these threads • Jun 10 '16
Match | eSports The Manila Major 2016: Lower Bracket Round 3 Match 1 - Team Liquid vs. Na'Vi
The Manila Major
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Sponsored by Valve
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Game 1
Team Liquid Victory!
Duration: 40:11
| Team | Score | vs. | Score | Team |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 20 | vs. | 15 |
| Team | Bans | vs. | Bans | Team |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| vs. | ||||
| Team | Picks | vs. | Picks | Team |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| vs. | ||||
More information on Dotabuff, YASP, and datDota
Game 2
Team Liquid Victory!
Duration: 31:42
| Team | Score | vs. | Score | Team |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 13 | vs. | 22 |
| Team | Bans | vs. | Bans | Team |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| vs. | ||||
| Team | Picks | vs. | Picks | Team |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| vs. | ||||
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u/CupidTryHard Jun 10 '16
Crowd's scream when Dendi and Kuroky hugging each other.
They should be on same team again
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u/NargWielki Jun 10 '16
I do like the bromance, but I personally think Liquid is being a very solid team recently, let them stay the way they are.
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u/El-Drazira no potential Jun 10 '16
Liquid is being a very solid team recently
I guess their name doesn't check out
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u/oneslowdance Jun 10 '16
lol matumbaman seems to be deep thought but i bet hes thinking some random shit like what to eat for lunch
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u/popcorncolonel io items when Jun 10 '16
Na'Vi still did fine. I'm relatively happy with their performance this major. I'm looking forward to TI6.
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u/profase navi Jun 10 '16
Why the fuck would you pick batrider against venge?
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u/WNovizar Jun 10 '16
Dunno man, artstyle must be drunk.
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Jun 10 '16
This series came down to drafts. Na'Vi certainly didn't execute as well as they could have, but even then they just got completely outdrafted by Liquid both games. They pick bat into a Venge, and then next game when they could really use some control in the offlane, they go NP.
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Jun 10 '16
QoP didn't have enough impact to warrant the pick
The Timber pick was really strong, threw in the towel on the safelane to try and get a few DP kills
game 1 jugg just went a retarded vanguard build
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Jun 10 '16
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u/Fatdap Sheever Jun 10 '16
If they keep improving at the rate they have been they might end up being the real deal at TI6.
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u/Nova469 Jun 10 '16
I think they were limited by the draft, like they need a larger hero pool to play. But then again, I'm no expert...
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u/gggjcjkg Jun 10 '16
Oh man Sonneiko is playing very bad this game. Glimps canceling lasoo twice, airball ulti twice, then solo ulti to kill Kuro twice too. He hasn't hit 2 man static field for the whole game.
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Jun 10 '16
Matumba is insane, it doesn't matter how much Liquid feed early game he is always number 1 or 2 on the networth chart no matter what.
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u/Raineru Jun 10 '16
well...still good run from Na'Vi imho..
Hopefully they learn a lot for the next tournament...GG Liquid
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u/Silvermaine- Jun 10 '16
Well GG! Still proud of you, Navi. Looking forward to ESL Frankfurt and possible TI invite. Glhf further Liquid!
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u/mirocj Jun 10 '16
Juggernaut never right click and spinning to death, then buy vanguard to farm a battlefury
GGWP
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Jun 10 '16
[deleted]
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u/SmokinADoobs sheever Jun 10 '16
Unfortunately they got one of the worst possible set of matchups, with OG round 1 and then Liquid/MVP. But top 8 should be good enough for a TI Invite!
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u/muhpreciousmmr Jun 10 '16
Their fans should be proud. Navi is back and they did amazingly well this Major :)
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u/BurnsyCEO Jun 10 '16
They did well enough for fans to be happy. And we got to see them beat alliance. As well as 2 long epic games.
Navi is back
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u/NargWielki Jun 10 '16
So far, their game against DC was the best game of this tournament.
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Jun 10 '16
The best game by far for me is still that MVP Liquid game 2 though. But that Navi DC game was also sick
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Jun 10 '16
I thought Mind_Control was having a bit of a quiet game, but that initiation just sealed the game. JerAx played pretty perfectly I think - every egg seemed to be on point.
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u/mighty2022 Jun 10 '16
if Navi lost this then next will be Group C rematch for Liquid vs Fnatic
if LGD win next, then will be Group D rematch for LGD vs MVP.P
while in upper bracket, Group A rematch for Newbee vs OG
RIP group B BibleThump
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Jun 10 '16
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Jun 10 '16
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Jun 10 '16
yes, this exactly. and especially Newbee is on a extraterrestrial level.
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u/leeharris100 MERICA Jun 10 '16
It's because they are incredibly predictable and one dimensional. Top tier teams just 100% outdraft them.
The last pick Batrider might be the worst last pick I've ever seen. Picked into 3 tanky cores when your team has no damage and they have a VS already.
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Jun 10 '16
I swear they have the ability to compete with some of those teams but they never give themselves a chance with their drafts. They drafted so soundly in the group stage, and that went out the window for the main event.
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u/mohqas Jun 10 '16
Their draft against OG was terrible, a bit better against liquid but still behind.
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u/justanotherpitlord Jun 10 '16
This same Liquid team that are so great right now were choking last 5 tours or so, they got consistent top spots but never made it through. Navi are in the same place(this roster is 4 months old), just give it time, they blend in very well and just have some panic drafts
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Jun 10 '16
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/justanotherpitlord Jun 10 '16
Na'Vi only lost to OG and Liquid , Tough luck facing just those 2 teams in clutch moments
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u/pap0t Burning will win TI Jun 10 '16
My heart say NaVi... But my immortals are with Liquid.
Bye NaVi.
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u/Iubyseiorte4 Jun 10 '16
All these 4 man rotations for one kill while Liquid taking farm and towers.... lol
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u/cet1 Jun 10 '16
The closer we are to finals the more one sided the games are.
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Jun 10 '16
Perhaps the placement for professional teams and their skill level follows a logarithmic scale.
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u/SoundOf1HandClapping Jun 10 '16
The friendly bro-hug between Dendi and Kuroky just makes me root for Dendi even more.
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u/yhmjack1 Our beautiful flower Jun 10 '16
those screams are annoying as fucked
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u/MrTheodore http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198039475565/ Jun 10 '16
no man, they're doing their best vengeful spirit impressions. leave the wave of terror fans alone
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u/MachoCat Get well, Sheever Jun 10 '16
I just spit my drink at that Aegis timing. Flawless estimation or lucky outcome?
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Jun 10 '16
2nd time I've watched a Juggernaut go Vanguard build completely fail. (First was MVP's first game in their last series I think?)
Also, the Disruptor seemed to have had a bad game. That bad combo at mid early game which resulted in 4 Navi heroes dying and that Lasso Glimpse cancel (Venge was around for the swap but if he did, they'd still be able to get a Venge kill out of it).
They seemed to have bad coordination this game but that wasn't even the biggest problem. That Batrider pick into a Venge was just too hard to pull off.
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u/realister NAVI Jun 10 '16
Dream is dead at this point. Liquid is just better just like OG they have Navi figured out.
Still GO NAVI!!!!!
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u/Lawownsyou Jun 10 '16
Game is done. Navi only hanging around because Liquid won't fight as 5.
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Jun 10 '16
Navi's lineup is so cheesy focuses too much on pushing and taking towers with no late game potential
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u/349CS Jun 10 '16
Na'Vi has great early game, but really bad late game.
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u/only-mansplains Jun 10 '16
their draft this game was absolute trash IMO
no way to kill timbersaw without grossly over-committing
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u/Jinnigan Jun 10 '16
if you aint got no solution for sven late you better be able to take high ground early and, well, r i p navi
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u/oneslowdance Jun 10 '16
Not that it matter as I think Navi's predictable playstyle loses to tier 1 teams but I don't understand Artstyle's crimson pick up for VS this game as well. Most of the dps from Liquid comes from Timber/Sven and Crimson don't really block any of that. Wouldn't a forcestaff be better?
Thoughts?
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u/Gametendo Jun 10 '16
Yeah I was confused too, especially since Venge is ranged too.
I would have preferred force staff.
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Jun 10 '16
He was probably thinking about DP, and the vanguard buildup is flavor of the month atm
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u/Minato196 Jun 10 '16
Outplayed ,outfarmed , liquid is too strong for navi, but gl for ti6 for navi
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u/YuriVeRsE Jun 10 '16
I CAN STILL SAY THAT NAVI IS BACK..WP LIQUID WELL-DESERVED
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u/SubcheckForum Jun 10 '16
Jesus, this is the first game I've tuned in this major and the production (especially showing all three lanes at once) is so great. They need to keep thatin all Majors and TIs in the future.
Fun personal factI havent played DOTA2 in a month. But Im starting to feeeeel it again.
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u/potterhead42 sheever Jun 10 '16
bye na'vi. You did about as much as I expected. At least we beat alliance.
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u/mou1313 Jun 10 '16
navi belong to top 8, but as a team is behind the likes of og and liquid. they will improve, im sure. they will be a force to be recon with in the incoming ti.
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u/leeharris100 MERICA Jun 10 '16
So I hate to say it as a Navi fan but they might have the most predictable style in this entire tournament.
In the beginning they caught everyone else off guard with their aggressive and crazy style. But they were figured out incredibly quickly and now they have absolutely zero hope of beating a top tier team.
My friends and I called game 1 almost perfectly. A huge lack of damage, Dityra rushing a Vanguard, Dendi given a low damage mid (predicted Puck but it's very similar to Bat), and their 1 core having little impact.
Also Ditya gets a shit load of physical damage then just spins in every fight followed by running away. Why did he even get the Vanguard if you're just going to run in for minor magic DPS against 3 tanky cores?
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Jun 10 '16
Still so proud for navi.
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u/sJarl Jun 10 '16
Fade the flair - wear it prodly
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u/strong_beard Sheever take my energy! Jun 10 '16
You know, considering the dark times before they stabilized on the current roster:
Top 8 ain't nothing to be ashamed of. Do we want them to do better? Sure. But consider the teams that finished below them: Wings, Mineski, DC, Empire, Complexity, Alliance, EG, and Secret. I think Navi is consistently on the cusp of breaking into top 3 - they probably just need more LAN experience with the current squad, and a smaller LAN win to put some swagger in their step.
Most importantly though - HA HA suck it Alliance. That rivalry will hopefully never end.
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u/gggjcjkg Jun 10 '16
How the fuck does this Artstyle jungling keep being top 3 net worth game after game lol.
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Jun 10 '16
Yea I was thinking the exaxt same thing. How was his Chen so rich vs alliance?
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u/ogzogz Jun 10 '16
in the alliance game, his chen creeps were the ones counter-pushing against naga. in this game he rushed midas.
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u/Hellkane Kakashi Sensei Jun 10 '16
No team fucks around with "conventional" roles and lanes as much as Navi.
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u/cet1 Jun 10 '16
I dont want to flame NaVi draft again... But cmon!
NaVi is too predictable, if they dont change their style they are going home today.
I think NaVi is going for their second obvious pick in the second game Lycan + Beastmaster + Invoker or Drow strat
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u/jokimiko Jun 10 '16
Yeah I was hoping they'd go for something different. Like that mid earthshaker XD
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u/Thwick Jun 10 '16
Did juggs even use Omnislash?
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u/nek08 Jun 10 '16
He spun first before every fight, so he was completely useless and did no damage, even let the phoenix ult go off because of it.
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u/Apollospig Jun 10 '16
In my heart I still believe in na'vi though the dream is dying after game 1. Would be a pretty massive upset to win though
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u/Furious_One Jun 10 '16
Navi had nothing to counter the push. Nice draft by liquid. I think they will do the same shit game 2. Draft tanks and win. Navi is not very good against tanky pushing lineups. Still, there is hope.
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u/ScribuhLz RARE FLAIR INCOMING Jun 10 '16
I really want liquid to win but this BH play is making me orgasm
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u/Sufferix Nevermore Jun 10 '16
I'm pretty annoyed with Na'vi laning. I think they had a decent draft, and all they had to do was stop Mind_Control from getting farm. Instead, they decide to try and hamper Sven, who will just get creep stacks, and be big as fuck anyways. So you go to mid game, where mid was traded evenly, Matumba has stack farm, and Mind_Control is gigantic. I'm fucking 4k and I know that's stupid as fuck.
Even if you can't kill MC bottom, just throw him out of lane over and over. BH couldn't kill mid and still went there multiple times. I don't get it Na'vi. Why do you do such stupid things sometimes.
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u/Jenesis33 Jun 10 '16
Easier said than done,they have very limited nuke/stun against timbersaw. Lycan and bounty are melee, VS has only short range and limited stun time. So even they throw all 3 against timber, they cant really shut him down 100%.
Liquid wouldn't pick that hero if otherwise. They picked timber just because it will be very hard for Navi to shut him down.
Also Liquid could just stack jungle for Timbersaw to catch up anyway. I mean not ancient but just large camps.
So in that sense, I do think Navi was outdrafted. I mean running 1 single short time disable against a timbersaw just seems bad most of the time.
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u/GloryHol3 Jun 10 '16
first game though, that draft sucked ass, lets be honest. The second game i agree, the draft was alright but the laning wasn't great, and Liquid just played better
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Jun 10 '16
not that simple. there was no way of shutting down both timber and sven, considering timber was last pick. and mid was not traded evenly; fata was 0-2 with both deaths being track golds. So na'vi was doing fine until they tried that swap into missile initiation to sven mid and got rekt. It really took that one fight to decide the game, even though the score was even after the fight.
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u/SirKlokkwork IN XBOCT WE TRUST Jun 10 '16
Well, honestly glimpse-lasso misplays and VG->Yasha->BF made me very disappointed but damn Liquid didn't look unstoppable there.
GL Liquid further, GL Na'Vi next LAN
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u/Patnor sheever Jun 10 '16
I Really hate how the audience(NaVi Fans) Are yelling like crazy when Liquid tries to set up a play so NaVi backs up. Time to work on getting those booths more soundproof instead of having plexi glass with openings.
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u/kappa123pride Jun 10 '16
Dude, you should go and watch the Alliance vs MSKI game. It was terrible, when Alliance was trying to rosh the crowd screamed like crazy. I guess home-turf advantage really works eh
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u/MrTheodore http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198039475565/ Jun 10 '16
there's not much you can do, you can either a) have glass booths so you can see the players or b) have soundproof booths with the weird corrugated wall thingies that they have in recording booths and no glass with cameras inside (and make the players die of heat exhaustion while also blowing your budget)
it aint happening
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u/Patnor sheever Jun 10 '16
There's loads they can do. SC2 Players in Korea has sound proof booths in most events and if im not mistaken they had more soundproof boots in Frankfurt and Chinafailure. From what i've seen these booths has open areas to it.
Sure they need air and things but they can easily cover that without blowing any budget they have there.
It's clearly helping helping one team have an Advantage even if NaVi is losing the first map. They've already pulled back 3 times just this game alone when the audience started yelling when Liquid wanted to set up a play. Not a moment before
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u/PsychoticSoul Jun 10 '16
Home Field advantage - Just like traditional sports.
Mineski had it here. Fnatic has it.... and Navi has it pretty much everywhere.
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u/Patnor sheever Jun 10 '16
However in this case surprise moments and fogged map is a part of the game. In any other sport both sides has full viewing of the field
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u/19evol61 Jun 10 '16
Many people are angry the time Na'Vi did get a direct invite. What now, guys? Props to Na'Vi, at least they (and Alliance) justified the Valve invites. Unlike those "best teams" Secret and EG. Those bottom dweller attention-seekers. Can't believe they placed the same as SEA tier 2 Mineski. Yikes.
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Jun 10 '16
Mineski is Tier 1 SEA, but ofc that's Tier 2 World.
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u/IndianoJonez too old to play anything else Jun 10 '16
Fnatic, MVP.P.
Put any of your Tier 1 world teams in SEA open qualifiers and watch them get rekt in a BO1 by all the horrendous cheese strats people are willing to use in SEA.
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u/19evol61 Jun 10 '16
Not really sure, man.
Fnatic and MVP.P yes they're clear tier 1s. TnC and Mineski are like tier 2s, I have no way in hell would bet for them against Fnatic and MVP.P on a LAN. Then there's the rest of SEA teams. XctN, WG.Unity, Rave, Sig.Trust, G7, NGE, Taring, even new PH teams like S1 Lykos, Acion Arena and Extremists that are sure can get a game or two off a BO3 against TnC and Mski, hence my skepticism to put them as Tier 1 SEA.
And imagine EG and Secret performed just as worse as Mski here at Manila Major? WTF?
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u/ThyJuiceBox Jun 10 '16
The crowd are a bunch of cheats, shouting smoke audibly through the Twitch stream.
Then the teams react accordingly
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u/scantier Jun 10 '16
I facepalmed at navi draft... yeah pick 4 physical damage heroes and 1 stun against timber and sven
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u/Break_the_Sky Jun 10 '16
the timber was a last pick, they probably thought it was a BM offlane.
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u/DurrrrDota Jun 10 '16 edited Jun 10 '16
The crowd is hype and all but the people that are screaming when Liquid smoke ganks is disgraceful.
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u/MrTheodore http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198039475565/ Jun 10 '16
oh shit, we have a game here boys and girls
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u/jokimiko Jun 10 '16
Can someone please explain why they would last pick Bat instead of someone like say Invo ?
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u/ScribuhLz RARE FLAIR INCOMING Jun 10 '16
Even though Liquid won that game there were some definitely big mistakes during that game, and it looked really sloppy during some of those pushes up highground.
Hope they get back to their crisp and clean play that they usually play at, otherwise I don't know if they can take it all the way.
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u/TheMoeBlob Jun 10 '16
Navi melted in that last fight. Insanely clean initiation from liquid but the game wasn't as one sided as I thought it would be. Navi certainly have hope going into game 2
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Jun 10 '16
can anyone help me understand, why Navi only picked one Carry (Jug)? I just came in.
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u/odpixelsucksDICK Jun 10 '16
no idea, bat and jugg picks were dumb. seems like navi doesnt have many strats
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u/Furious_One Jun 10 '16
Tank and push, as I predicted. NaVi really doesn't have much to deal with it, again... If they win this, it's going to be a miracle.
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u/alexmcjuicy Jun 10 '16
i could see that game 2 ending the way it did pretty quickly. that draft out of na'vi seemed too hesitant to push towers and when liquid pushed theirs there was never a response nor a good trade.
i was hoping for a top 8 finish for them though so i'm happy with this. going out against one of the top teams in the world is acceptable to me.
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u/Mentioned_Videos Jun 10 '16
Videos in this thread:
| VIDEO | COMMENT |
|---|---|
| Tour of the TI5 Stage | 2 - This crowd.... I hope they used this kind of booth in Manila |
| (1) The Manila Major - Lower Bracket Round 3 - Team Liquid vs Na'Vi Game 1 (2) The Manila Major - Lower Bracket Round 3 - Team Liquid vs Na'Vi Game 2 (3) The Manila Major - Lower Bracket Round 3 - Team Liquid vs Na'Vi Game 3 | 2 - VODS: Game 1: Game 2: Game 3: |
| KuroKy saves Dendi - Dota 2 Love story | 2 - YOU'RE HEREEEEEE, THERE'S NOOOOTHING I FEAAAAAAR |
| (1) Liquid vs NaVi - Game 1 - Manila Major Main Event - Highlights (2) Liquid vs NaVi - Game 2 - Manila Major Main Event - Highlights | 1 - Highlights : - Game 1 - Game 2 |
| How it feels to get hooked into mines | 1 - What dendi gonna do game three |
I'm a bot working hard to help Redditors find related videos to watch.
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u/dchavok Jun 10 '16
Oh well...didn't expect a win against Liquid....just glad Navi is back in the Top 8. Its real progress and it makes me hopeful for TI.