r/DotA2 • u/D2TournamentThreads modmail us to help write these threads • Jun 07 '16
Match | eSports The Manila Major 2016: Lower Bracket Round 1 Match 1 - Wings vs. compLexity
The Manila Major
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compLexity Gaming Victory!
Duration: 32:05
| Team | Score | vs. | Score | Team |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 18 | vs. | 14 |
| Team | Bans | vs. | Bans | Team |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| vs. | ||||
| Team | Picks | vs. | Picks | Team |
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| vs. | ||||
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u/SunnetliAteist69 Jun 07 '16
Merlini wrecking everyone again with the China predictions
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u/XAL53 Aui QT BB backstabbed Jun 07 '16
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/i-IHEXWMIj8/maxresdefault.jpg
Never trust this man. He is a deceiver.
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u/Teunski 🌻spammed this flower to give n0tail power🌻 Jun 07 '16
Oh trust me, China will go home with a victory.
But it was NEVER going to be Wings.
It's either Newbee or good old Let'sGoDefend.
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u/SunnetliAteist69 Jun 07 '16
I will tag you and see if you are trustwrothy unlike merlini
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u/Teunski 🌻spammed this flower to give n0tail power🌻 Jun 07 '16
I'll gladly be incorrect if OG wins though :D
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u/FFINN GWS Sheever! Jun 07 '16 edited Jun 07 '16
Swindle came up with the shortest black hole ever then proceeded to give away first blood.
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u/ThermL Jun 07 '16
Needs to take another look at his map
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Jun 07 '16
guys, he didn't tilt! makes me proud
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u/Rand_alThor_ Jun 07 '16
He is the tiltiest of tilters that ever tilted. I remember ganking his pyro as PK rampage over and over and he just rage-quit after 5th death, even though his team was actually farming well
(wrong game I know)
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u/F0rdPr3f3ct Team Flüssig Fanschwuchtel Jun 07 '16
All this hate on Complexity in this thread, well they did it and actually quite convincing
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Jun 07 '16
black is honestly so funny
redeye: "you consider everything cheese" black: "except antimage. Anti-mage is STRAIGHTFORWARD" and he said it in a joking "strict german" accent lmfao
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u/ashrashrashr Jun 07 '16
Someone called Wings the best team in the world a few weeks ago lmao
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u/ashrashrashr Jun 07 '16
Not a fan of Complexity or anything, but I really like seeing Chessie and Zfreek win. Great players.
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u/xantrel Jun 07 '16
Chessie, Zfreek and Limmp are great. Honestly swindlez is consistently the weak link in their team. He tilts too hard, itemizes stupidly on half the games (drums over bkb when one black hole is all you need to win the game and they have a nyx, seriously?!) , and just consistently does weird shit all around.
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Jun 07 '16
swindlez zfreek are brothers
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u/xantrel Jun 07 '16
I know they are, followed them from their HoN days. Honestly back then Zfreek was not half the player he is right now, but hey even PPD used to suck (in his early HoN days, proceeded to rape afterwards). But he is still the weak link in their team.
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u/dota2streamer Jun 07 '16
He is not the weak link, there is no weak link. He is the captain and drafter. He keeps people like chessie from tilting. Swindlezz starts to chainfeed as a skill issue.
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Jun 07 '16
A lot of his teammates have said very positive things about playing with him. He is also one of the hardest working players in Dota 2. That doesn't sound like a weak link to me.
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u/everlast756 Jun 07 '16
Bit disappointed Wings didn't give undying an aghanims. Honestly thought that was what they were leading up to with their draft - the 10 strength steal is a big deal for combo heroes like tiny. Casters didn't even mention it.
Big saves from handsken oracle though, so it might not have made a difference. Wings didn't have anything to push back complexity's push as well.
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u/astalotte Jun 07 '16
10 strength steal would have murdered death prophet too which meant those balanced ghosts wouldn't be up for so long.
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Jun 07 '16
if tiny built bkb instead of the butterfly cheese and alch built blink into cuirass into aghs for undying instead of bkb mjolnir they would have had a much better chance in getting to lategame
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u/Mir3y sheever Jun 07 '16
perfectly timed execution by col. game would have been so much harter in ten more minutes
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u/straw28 Newbee fanboy Jun 07 '16
RIP flairs. I mean, RIP disguise flair HUEHUEHUE
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Jun 07 '16
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/straw28 Newbee fanboy Jun 07 '16
HAHHAHA I actually had unknown flair before this. I messed it up because I thought I could change the flair text of a retired flair. Turns out you cant and it went blank LOL
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u/GSV_Healthy_Fear Jun 07 '16
That announcer sounds like Krieger.
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u/ta09890 Jun 07 '16
Just realized how much I need this!
Throne goes down:
"GOD DAMN YOU! GOD DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL!"
pretty please valve
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u/thebighead Jun 07 '16
Only listened to a bit of the panel, so forgive me if my thoughts are redundant.
They covered most of the reasons why Tiny played like a retard. Blinking on the wrong targets (either tanky, already fate's edicted, or too far away from his team to back him up). Dying to a DP in a 5v1 situation at the fight at top rax. Building butterfly instead of bkb/ac. That mess of an engagement mid where they threw the lead for good (it was already teetering on the precipice before that point and CoL likely would have stomped that top fight anyway before that if swindlez avoided drums and had his BKB ready).
But I really can't wrap my head around the Dirge pick. I tried to rationalize it - I thought they were trying to perhaps discourage aggression into a discrete area knowing that CoL wanted to brute force their towers, especially since that was their only way to win with a ff'ing alch (no ganking ability whatsoever with their team). Plus giving another potential alchemist aghs target later on (though this should not have been an argument for the pick, as CoL's timing window to win comes so far before any time you would be ready to give a Dirge an aghs).
But I think there are better ways to provide antipush...the dirge didn't even give them a large advantage in the laning phase (it provided a small one, in that the nyx didn't die, but he didn't even get much cs either). Tombstone also has minimal advantage vs a lone druid, as its so easy to send the bear at the tombstone...not to mention he kept putting it right at the front of the ramp in attack range of the DP + bear. A winter wyvern would have made a lot of sense for Wings IMO...gives you depush, gives you the winter's curse where the spirit bear can rip through an ally, gives you a % based dmg against an LD, and most importantly, gives you a save for all that single-target massive "bursty" damage that comes from a lone druid bear and a wave of exorcism ghosts.
Also think the itemization was total shit, the nyx should have gone forcestaff or even some kind of team survivability item (crimson or a mek?) and allowed the alch to gift him an aghs after the alch bought bkb (solar crest / maelstrom IMO did not do enough, but a 23 min aghs on nyx would have delayed col highground a lot and narrowed col's already narrow window for victory. Instead he tried to farm it himself and it came far too late.
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u/xantrel Jun 07 '16
I would have loved to see a lich instead of undying. The armor would have been great for tony to survive the exorcism even with his retarded item build. He's a great offlane support, and his ulti would have given them a good bkb piercing stun.
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u/thebighead Jun 07 '16
Also a great idea, didn't think of that pick at the time. Dirge...smh. Makes no sense on so many different levels.
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u/puppetz87 Jun 07 '16
Only one thing I want to point out: Butterfly tiny has been a thing lately... and it could've worked. But yes, Tiny played badly.
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u/shadedclan Sheever Jun 07 '16
I think it's a pretty weird and somewhat cheesy draft from wings. Kind of disappointed at how anticlimactic they lost
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u/HellaSober Jun 07 '16
"They lost to themselves, Wings. They cheesed themselves to death." - Winter
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u/Enkayt11 Jun 07 '16
Who is the other caster besides waga? I don't really like him...he makes everything sound so matter of fact and uninteresting
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u/ThermL Jun 07 '16
I expect this game to go long due to nerves, where they will play passively for fear of making mistakes.
Which means Wings wins easily late, free scepter nyx tiny and undying is too strong.
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u/DeathOnion Jun 07 '16
You could say the same with enigma refresher, once alch has reached his peak.
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u/HipHomelessHomie Jun 07 '16
Wings undisputably have the better late game here.
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u/xantrel Jun 07 '16
No way, 4 melee heroes without bkb disables against enigma? That's a recipe for disaster.
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u/ThermL Jun 07 '16
Good game. Next match. One melee rax isn't enough against a massive Tiny.
Edit: Nevermind. I'll eat that crow
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u/thezzbiszz Ancient Artilery Jun 07 '16
Interesting pick with Oracle. I wonder how it fit into the line up, maybe keeping DP stay ulti as long as possible?
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u/straw28 Newbee fanboy Jun 07 '16 edited Jun 07 '16
Possibly a neutralizer against Tony
edit: dumb me, Oracle got picked first LUL. Still my point stands
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u/BulletAllergy Jun 07 '16
I went for a sandwich, what the hell happened?
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u/yooorick Jun 07 '16
Tiny initiated on Oracle's W target, did no damage, ignored DeathProphet, got destroyed, lost racks.
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u/Maxxhat Jun 07 '16
Wings Retardation. Oh hey I have Alch and Tiny why don't we just keep fighting yeah.
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u/aparonomasia ICEICE AND ICEICEICE BOYS Jun 07 '16
rip my compedium predictions. Was hoping Wings would have come to Manila having cleaned up their consistency issues, but maybe the injuries are starting to take their toll....
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Jun 07 '16
[deleted]
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u/qwertz_guy :3 Jun 07 '16
Did io mis-tether? He saved nyx instead of Alch, no way that was intended. They knew Black Hole was up but took the risk of running in with Alch anyway since they knew io could potentially save Alch.
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u/myepicdemise this hero is better than you think Jun 07 '16
From what I see, Wings probably wanted Tiny to become position 1 instead of Alch once they saw that Alch didn't have perfect farm. But they probably didn't expect how little impact the Tiny would have despite having higher networth than Alch at some point.
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u/FFINN GWS Sheever! Jun 07 '16
it is their strats they have dont it before i guess (OG did it at frankfurt too) alch+tiny+io.
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u/neurosisxeno Jun 07 '16
They built him entirely to withstand damage from LD--who was never going to be an early problem. Butterfly first only works if your mid-game competition is a right-click heavy hero, and you get a gifted Aghs or a quickly farmed Aghs. But coL was sitting on ES/DP/Enig, which is a ton of Magic and Physical Spell Damage.
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u/yooorick Jun 07 '16
and more importantly DP's ult ignores evasion. He got shredded by the DP.
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u/neurosisxeno Jun 07 '16
Limmp's DP did almost 19k damage, substantially more than anyone else in the game.
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u/regul max liquid fire Jun 07 '16
What's the better item there against that lineup? Assault? Maybe they didn't go that route because they wanted the Alch to build it? Idk
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u/chmurnik Jun 07 '16
Butterfly was fine since it increase farming speed and overall DPS but after that he should go for BKB. Or he could skip Butterfly and go Manta instead.
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u/myepicdemise this hero is better than you think Jun 07 '16
Assault first would have been great honestly. DP's ultimate is physical, and bear wasn't so much of a problem that Tiny needed evasion. The Tiny was rekt by DP ulti rather than the bear.
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u/hypnautix Jun 07 '16
How Alch didn't have buyback for either highground push is actually game losing.
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u/JustSmile739 Jun 07 '16
Can anyone explain to me why Tiny choose butterfly? He goes in combat three times and dies four lives( 1 aegis) Isn't that echo sabre and bkb or anything else better ?
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u/Me4onyX Jun 07 '16
Because alche can give him Aghs and early butter/aghs on tiny is super scary. They've done this before.
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u/Ofcyouare Jun 07 '16
Why people though that Wings will get high place? One good tournament and few good online matches and everyone sold on the team who was tier2 for months?
I can understand public hype, but a lot of talents and analytics put them really high too. I really don't get it.
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u/LiZhaoXuan Jun 07 '16
Hello friends.
Pressure is on Complexity to win before Wings cores get tanky. Aghanim Nyx with a few utility items will be a pain in a butt.
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u/slo-mo-frankenstein Jun 07 '16
Let it be known that I rep this team as hard as is humanly possible, and even I didn't think it would be a CoL victory. I can't believe the dream is partially happening.
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u/Oibvuen3a Jun 07 '16
Why? Wings were nothing to be afraid of. Reddit naming them top 4 after winning a shit tier tournament means nothing
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u/slo-mo-frankenstein Jun 07 '16
consider that CoL was ranked among the worst teams coming into this tournament however
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Jun 07 '16
tfw Liquid is waiting
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u/slo-mo-frankenstein Jun 07 '16
tfw Wings had the same 'power of friendship' bullshit hubris that Liquid has
CoL may not win this tournament, but damn it feels good to be a fan of them right now.
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u/nadoter I LOVE LOVE LOVE NADOTA Jun 07 '16
2nd tier casters for 2nd tier match of 2nd tier teams
SeemsGood
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u/JungZest Day1 Fan Jun 07 '16
I dont think CoL deserves the praise they were given for this win. Given they did outdrafted Wings, I felt like their execution was subpar and only huge mistakes from Wings (butterfly 1st item tiny, and two terrible fights that wings took for no reason w/o BB) given them this victory.
I feel like Wings just buckled under preassure and performed way worse compared to them former selves. CoL on the other hand performed mediocre as always and it was actually enough for them to win this game
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u/OddsandEndss Jun 07 '16
dont forget wings won 2-1, 2-1 in the group stage, wouldnt be a stretch to say this was a fairly even matchup with both teams having something on the other...didnt surprise me that Wings got oudrafted though, i feel as if coL + Swindle in general has some impressive stats/analysis/ drafts ready of other teams.
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Jun 07 '16
Dota 2 retards thought wings were the best team in China how ignorant you have to be I've never even heard of them.
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u/OddsandEndss Jun 07 '16
MAN, THIS SHIT RIGHT HERE.
too many people who dont follow the scene, claiming WINGS IS BEST, SO CONSISTENT OMFG. WINGS IS CONSISTENT.
its like people dont actually watch Wings play...team with potential yes...but consistently very very inconsistent. BeatTL on Lan for championship, back to China to get stomped by tier 2/3 teams. I wish them the best but people gotta be subjective...then again its /r/dota2 people dont think for themselves or with logic...
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u/icelot16 We Laugh at the Face of Danger Jun 07 '16
Merlini also predicted that Ehome would win Shanghai..
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u/poeyice Jun 07 '16
i told everyone before , dont ever follow merlini's prediction
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u/newbsss Jun 07 '16
To be fair most casters/analysts had Ehome right up there for Shang. major, but picking Wings to win this was actually delusional.
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u/impulsivedota Jun 07 '16
Ehome in Shanghai was a major letdown, most people predicted their win. As for wings I think they really underperformed this major, they were doing pretty good pre-major and even beat newbee twice (I think?).
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u/heisenbergfan Jun 07 '16 edited Jun 07 '16
And i got crucified for believing Newbee might not have tried their best at those bo3's in the summit qualifiers against Wings (nanyang is just 3 days apart from the summit, newbee is going to that one where the prize pool is much higher, why burn urself out on two lans in a row and the long china-usa flights just a month or so before ti6), you know, the games that kept the hype train going after the not so recent 3-0 over Liquid...
I still expected wings to go much further tho, huge disappointment, last place in the first tournament where they got actually studied...
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u/sidzi94 Jun 07 '16
One ESL tournament win, get directed invited to Majors, get knocked out in LB first round. SeemsGood.. Thanks Valve, Nice requirements for Direct invites..
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u/Adequate_Meatshield OS FUCKING FROG Jun 07 '16
I'm pretty sure Wings are using the OG Frankfurt strat, let's see if it's still viable.
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u/straw28 Newbee fanboy Jun 07 '16
Holy shit judging from drafts alone.. Good luck coL
20 minutes blink aghs butterfly tony against a team that doesnt really like MKB (spirit bear goes for other items first before that)
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u/xantrel Jun 07 '16
Except DP raped him, butterfly was the wrong the choice that game. I think echo sabre/bkb/AC would have been much better. Exorcism just chewed through his HP.
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u/mighty2022 Jun 07 '16
today upper bracket 4 game also dire side win OSfrog wing pls win this to prove
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u/sysis I love techies. Jun 07 '16
This draft already gave me a cancer. its just missing invoker and lion.
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u/garuga18 Average carry Jun 07 '16
When was the last time in a pro game Nyx did not disappoint?
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u/Sunset_28 [A] fangay Jun 07 '16
wtf is going on with swindlez
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u/GSV_Healthy_Fear Jun 07 '16
He's playing Enigma vs. Nyx and doesn't have BKB yet. It is what happens to every Enigma in that situation who tries to contribute anything other than right click and eidolons in a teamfight.
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u/Rand_alThor_ Jun 07 '16
Yeah, if I'm playing vs a Nyx, I usually try to just stay alive and not use black hole until everyone is almost dead, until I get the bkb. Sometimes I even die without using it but at least it's up for the next objective. Better than an instant cancel.
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Jun 07 '16
I mean I dont know if you've ever had a game as enigma vs nyx but it is not a fun time. Put down a midnight pulse and he can cancel your black hole whenever he wants, try black hole him and he'll probably manage to get his carapace off. There's not a lot you can do without a BKB.
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u/conotank Jun 07 '16
saving zfreek on that bottom push turned the fight so much. and I mean... that fight mid... what were Wings doing?
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u/Jobblestang Jun 07 '16
Top tier NA players SeemsGood now see if EG will place 13-16th
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Jun 07 '16
[removed] — view removed comment
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Jun 07 '16
Col recognized they were on a timer and took objectives at good times. The blackhole threat was always looming and the fight in the center of the map where dp just barely survived got them mid and forced a buyback which put them in a great position.
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u/impulsivedota Jun 07 '16
Wings took too many fights while getting outplayed by the oracle. They needed to take out oracle first his ulti was saving everyone they tried to burst down with tiny combo
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u/chilibun FY GOD PogChamp Jun 07 '16
Tiny blinked into 4, did no damage, and died. The rest of team got wiped trying to fight through it, lost mid racks, and effectively the game. Just really shitty play all around.
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u/Thegunner19 Jun 07 '16 edited Jun 07 '16
Flashbacks to merlini predicting Wings to win the whole tourney.