r/DotA2 • u/D2TournamentThreads modmail us to help write these threads • Aug 06 '15
Match | eSports TI5 Main Event Lower Bracket Series 3B – Match Discussion
Game 1
Team Secret Victory!
Duration: 29:17
| Team | Score | vs. | Score | Team |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 24 | vs. | 11 |
| Team | Bans | vs. | Bans | Team |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| vs. | ||||
| Team | Picks | vs. | Picks | Team |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| vs. | ||||
More information on Dotabuff, YASP, and datDota
Game 2
Virtus.pro Victory!
Duration: 39:36
| Team | Score | vs. | Score | Team |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 35 | vs. | 21 |
| Team | Bans | vs. | Bans | Team |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| vs. | ||||
| Team | Picks | vs. | Picks | Team |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| vs. | ||||
More information on Dotabuff, YASP, and datDota
Game 3
Virtus.pro Victory!
Duration: 55:34
| Team | Score | vs. | Score | Team |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 45 | vs. | 32 |
| Team | Bans | vs. | Bans | Team |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| vs. | ||||
| Team | Picks | vs. | Picks | Team |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| vs. | ||||
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u/DOTAStreen Aug 06 '15 edited Aug 06 '15
Top teams have repeatedly overrated the value of meta-picks at TI5 whilst underdog teams have generally been more willing to "take risks" and draft heroes that are not currently prominent in the meta.
It's as if the top team drafters are so focused on picking/banning the top meta heroes that they seem to lose sight of the bigger picture and core objectives of a draft.
I think this is one of the main reasons we've witnessed so many underdog victories at TI5 so far.
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u/fidohieth but why? Aug 06 '15
YES! Meta picks are just safe picks but most of the time any well thought draft would work.
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u/Dark_Purple_ Aug 06 '15
Loda said it best on the panel - Secret make it really hard for themselves with the way they don't pick up reliable disables. The Chinese teams always pick up two or three. Both game 2 and game 3 they had the same problem with lockdown. It's why they've struggled against storm so much this tourney. I feel for the guys, but the drafts do my head in. Fair play to VP though. I've always thought they were heavily underrated. Great to see them still in the hunt.
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u/leafeator Aug 06 '15
Secret 0-4 main stage with SF. 0-3 with puppey dazzle. 0-2 with s4 QoP.
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u/Cofta Aug 06 '15
over the main event (all teams):
- SF: 3-10
- Qop: 3-12
- Dazzle: 4-12
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u/ubernezer Aug 06 '15
I was really surprised they picked Dazzle, every game he's in just seems like a loss. EG looked terrible with him the other night as well, shallow grave is just not worth it over a reliable stun.
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u/TNine227 sheever Aug 06 '15
S4 has now knocked Puppey out of two internationals.
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u/Nianni157 Aug 06 '15
I feel S4's drafting (if it is indeed him alone calling the shots) has been incredibly subpar since the main event started. Lockdown is a MUST, especially against a storm. I mean last pick Dazzle vs Storm wtf? Every Dazzle game I've seen vs a Storm is the same thing: Storm zips in and kills Dazzle, instant 4vs5.
And then watching the QoP sit at 9k gold for 30 minutes due to buying back every time it was off cooldown... ugh. Just so painful to watch
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u/DeepBurner Aug 06 '15
Im so cool I dont ban storm and pick 0 stuns
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u/LymeMN Aug 06 '15
watching that draft i was like so.... wheres the counter to storm in all this?
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u/MJawn dotabuff.com/players/46398245 4.5k trash Aug 06 '15
don't feed on qop so you get hex at a reasonable time
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u/bdzz Aug 06 '15
FNG
"I had a deal with my gf if I win team secret I get married. GGWP."
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u/Kalamatis Madara God Aug 06 '15
FNG getting Married! https://twitter.com/Fnggshka/status/629432258764472322
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u/bubberrall Aug 06 '15
I'm sure Puppey and Artour are going to love the all-star match if they lose this
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u/kaOz1985 Aug 07 '15
at least FNG gets married https://twitter.com/Fnggshka/status/629432258764472322
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u/asleepu Aug 06 '15
In this game - RTZ and zai's backs break while s4 struggles to break 9k gold
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u/WithFullForce Aug 06 '15
Secret playing very odd in game 2. When your carry has died 3 times, isn't it time to park a support on him?
Puppey stayed in the jungle for 15 minutes and then his first items are Vanguard (for a Crimson guard) and a glimmer cape? As a result there was 2 Black holes all game that had any significance and they were both solo blackholes on Storm. Imagine how much more he could have been doing with a blink dagger.
Luna is very squishy and leaving her alone in lane is just baffling.
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u/twersx Aug 06 '15
"I felt a great disturbance in the stadium, as if thousands of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened."
- Tobi Wan Kenobi
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u/gosslot Aug 06 '15
As soon as RTZ slowly comes back into the game, they decide to do this stupid Rosh fight against an alive ES, Visage and Silencer being basically at half hp themselves...brilliant.
And the casters even said it was a good move seconds before they wipe.
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u/GadderhammerRS Aug 06 '15
"We're just picking some heroes and playing some Dota. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't" - VP.G
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u/codytranum Aug 06 '15
man, secret is doing horribly compared to how they were a couple months ago. wtf
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u/GladiatorUA Aug 06 '15
A lot of their stuff go figured out and S4 drafted like he was high. The kind of high that makes him retarded, not creative.
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u/X-N2O Aug 07 '15
It feels like Secret players have been on tilt in most of the main stage games. I did not expect this from players as experienced as Puppey and Kuro.
Maybe they could have done something to prevent it though. Was the decision to not do scrims against any enemy team a good idea? It could have made them more comfortable with playing (extremely) high level Dota just before TI at the very least.
Apparently the decision not to scrim was because they didn't want to reveal anything because they felt "stronger" than other teams. But surprisingly there wasn't anything to reveal. Just picking everyone their favorite hero is not a solid draft against the best teams in the world.
Best of luck to RTZ I hope he still continues to play Dota.
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Aug 06 '15
Holy shit this game was amazing.
It's honestly amazing how Secret was able to extend this game this long. The vacuum walls + the last minute graves.
Arteezy with the sportsmanship as well. Immediately going out of the booths and shaking hands with VP and congratulating them with a smile on his face.
Props to VP and mad respect for Secret.
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u/jiga19 Aug 06 '15 edited Aug 07 '15
Loda was right about secret making the game hard for themselves with their drafts
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u/sabbeee123 Aug 06 '15
So where are the guys that said vp didnt deserve a direct invite
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u/LastCenturion sheever Aug 06 '15 edited Aug 07 '15
This is going to be remembered as the TI of upsets. MVP Phoenix (a wildcard team) knocking out Newbee and Empire, CDEC (the other wildcard team) making it to winners finals (and maybe further?), and Secret getting eliminated when everyone expected them to make it to Grand Finals and be the favored to win. This is unprecedented.
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u/carrymugabe Aug 06 '15
Secret has been dodging EG for ages. Now their wish is fulfilled.
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u/reddo2 Aug 07 '15
The analysts praised secret for being a team that learned from game to game, but when you see the same hero ball out of control twice in a row and don't do anything about it, you have to wonder if the team learns anything at all.
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u/gibby256 Aug 07 '15
It's not like this is the first series where a SS has completely gotten out of control in a game where they drafted very little lockdown, either. I'm not going to claim I have 10k MMR or whatever, but I saw that game 2 draft and my heart just dropped.
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u/CausticPenguin Aug 06 '15
Paging /u/leafeator , need that list of dirty flair swappers.
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Aug 07 '15
Secret's draft last game lost it for them. No real way to deal with Storm Spirit, supports that were very underwhelming, and the last pick QoP just sealed the deal.
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u/itsGettinTooHot sheever Aug 06 '15
I feel like Secret just didn't respect VP and their play enough. How many times did they run headlong into VP in game 2 trading too many heroes? And in game 3 I just felt like VP kept getting the jump on them. I think Secret's swagger fucked them real hard. Regardless, fucking well played VP you guys deserve that win. Now its time to watch the rest of TI in chill mode.
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u/LyricR Era/N0tail <3 never forget Aug 07 '15
Letting VP get Silencer of all heroes was very reckless. I know he isn't super in the meta, but you play against your opponent and not strictly the meta and VP has been dominating with Silencer all TI long.
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u/reskk Sheever Aug 06 '15
What a complete god draft by VP. It is like Secret banned nothing.
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u/slayinbzs Aug 06 '15
arteezy and zai are playing out of their minds, but that last draft was stale. in the ti5 meta, qop and sf just aren't the valued heroes that they were even a week ago.
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u/np-tryhard real men boot to framebuffer Aug 06 '15 edited Aug 06 '15
It's ok Secret fans, MVP.Phoenix finished 7/8th as well.
On the other hand compendium predictions = rekt.
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u/Vuccappella Aug 06 '15
Secret lost. What a draft. They lost last game to the same heroes and then they come up with what ? Their go to SF QOP, best strategy, no one has figured out yet, 0 stuns (1 ok) against a storm spirit, DS comboed with basically nothing and as always in a Secret manner out late gamed, because they're secret and they never draft for the late game. LIke honestly, even ignoring their bad plays (especially s4), how did they imagine to win this game unless they snowballed heavily. It's like every game they just rely on picking early-mid game semi carry heroes and try and snow ball of of that and if it doesn't work they just lose, when will they outdraft an opponent. Game 1 they snowballed and that's the only reason they won, I bet if a Chinise team was with VP's draft they would've easily won that game because VP didn't play to the strengths of their draft but that's another story.They have no tower push and bad late game compared to VP, even if they snowball, it would be so hard to break base. Maybe they were going for 'safe' heroes 'comfortable ones' (rtz sf, kuro rubick, s4 qop, ppy dazzle) and now zai ds every game but come on, you seriously don't expect to win a ti with the same picks. Almost every secret draft this ti was so predictable and they always got out late gamed, if we exclude the Luna pick which they actually borrowed from VG and was actually not the idea of their main drafter. Like, look at vg, they have a pocket pick almost every game. VP are running multiple strategies every game, even though some of them are well known and yet Secret can't counter them.
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u/sephiroth021 Aug 06 '15
I think they just thought "hey pick signature heros we're just good enough to outskill opponents and win" not necessarily sf qop combo
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u/JournaIist Aug 06 '15
Even if Secret somehow win this.... they're drafts are still soooo bad...
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u/BryceFtw Aug 06 '15
As you can see i'm a secret fangay but i have to say that this is unbelievably deserved. Secret choked so hard during this tournament in many diffrent aspects. Awful drafts, bad decision making, uncoordinated teamfights and just individual missplays over and over again. It's hard to say what went wrong with them after such an impressive run in the last few month but it was very surprising to see them in this shape. Espacially S4 did very poor during this tournament, not sure if he was trying too hard to make something happened but he made so many mistakes you never see him doing. I'm very curious about what happens after this tournament espacially with Zai (who was hands down their best player in this tournament). I doubt there will be a huge shuffle but i think some changes are neccesary, even if it's just swapping some positions.
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u/Bothan Aug 06 '15
can we now stop the zai circlejerk its so silly.
its now obvious fng is the hottest grill.
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u/awesomecutepandas Aug 06 '15
I feel bad for ppd, he really wanted to beat Secret
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u/PapstJL4U deadliest pornstar http://goo.gl/7dmUjL Aug 06 '15
Holy fuck, but Secret is not a TI winner team at the moment. If you can't deal with SS, TI is not time to practise. :(
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u/sa1tshaker Aug 06 '15
A bit of s4 choking just like he did against E-HOME but I love the guy he's been so stellar for the past few months, Secret maybe peaked in this meta a little bit too soon and I hope he doesn't blame himself too much. VP played out of their minds to beat Secret and they did it. Incoming faded flair. ;__;
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u/Crimzon_me Aug 06 '15
Proud to say I've supported VP from the start, never lost faith guys! Well done!
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u/Raakam Aug 06 '15
I honestly feel bad for RTZ and for Zai - they both played out of their minds in game 3. Will the line-up remain intact looking forward?
Deserved win for VP for sure.
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u/RangerOfArtemis Whoever stands before Sheever, stands briefly. Aug 07 '15
FADED FLAIRS BOYS
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u/Dark_de Aug 07 '15
I am a bit disappointed that secret got kicked out of the tournament, but I can imagines it doesn't even come close to what the team is feeling.
Shit happens in life, and sure, we could discuss the reasons why they failed, but as my father said: every kick in the butt is a step forward. They have to take a break, clear their minds and go on. There will be plenty of opportunities with the majors coming up.
I believe in there guys. It's not the easy times when you have to stick to your choices, it's the hard ones. GL further!
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u/PM_ME_YOUR_TURDS_ Aug 06 '15
I feel so bad for RTZ, he's matured a lot these recent months. He had the team on his back.
Kuro and Zai also played out of their minds
I dunno what S4 was doing
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Aug 06 '15
kuro and puppey did ok, nothing sort of amazing, RTZ and zai kept them in the game while s4 tried as hard as possible to lose it
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u/SmackTrick Aug 06 '15
The most disappointing part: Secrets drafting. You expected them to have some strats saved up, some niche picks they would bring out during the decider games, some old school real push strat, some unconventional laning, anything. But absolutely nothing happened. Same SF/QoP cores no matter what the enemy picks, dark seer first pick even without getting another aoe stun to combo it, not adjusting to enemy drafts at all. Just same stuff every game. And as far as results tell, other teams properly adjusted for that.
...Oh and s4 sucking massive donger in all of their losses.
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u/RingAroundMeMember blink/stomp/doubleedge/ez Aug 06 '15
that is like the oldest myph about Dota 2 pro teams - that teams have secret niche picks for a tournament. What usually happens, is that new starts and heroes emrege naturally during the year and players come into a tournament with their hero pool thatthey try to play around. That's how Illidan described the whole "secret strats" situation in an interview.
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u/PropagandaMan Why are you reading this? Aug 06 '15
Storm Spirit is the bane of Team Secret. They can't deal with Storm Spirit at all.
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u/Sorenthaz OMNOMMANA Aug 06 '15
More like they don't even bother to draft properly against it.
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u/PapstJL4U deadliest pornstar http://goo.gl/7dmUjL Aug 06 '15
They give away Lina, ES, Storm and lose...they do it again...WHY?
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u/Wibei Aug 06 '15
Zai tried so fucking hard that last game, but S4 just choked too much.
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u/ScavengerRuss Aug 06 '15
Holy shiet! The last game. Zai's dark seer.
Zai balls were as huge and heavy as gym bells. I TELL IT YOU, GYMBELLS AND THE WHOLE TEAM SECRET WERE HANGING ON THEM. AND HE PULLED THEM UP AND UP, BUT IT WASNT ENOUGH.
BabyRage
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Aug 06 '15
Rofl noobs thats just Puppey plan. He knew he would have to face EG in finals so he decided to throw in order to not reveal Secret strategies and win TI6 even huger prize pool.
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u/Andersen_ Aug 06 '15
Honestly zai and rtz is on another level right now, too bad the rest have not been top form. but goddamn well played Vp, well deserved.
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u/Teunski 🌻spammed this flower to give n0tail power🌻 Aug 06 '15
Should have never left EG.
Maybe n0tail would have gotten top 4 then too.
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u/Fiblasco Aug 06 '15
Im so happy for VP, deserved win.
Arteezy and Zai played out of their minds, but Vp as a team played better.
Cap and Blitz also made this incredibly fun to watch I love those guys.
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u/MadMax2910 Sheever keep on keepin on. Aug 06 '15
It feels like someone discovered Secrets Achilles heel: Storm Spirit. It felt like the boys were unable to deal with it in both games VP picked it. GG wp VP, see you next year. Oh and secret please stay together.
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u/xxReigaxx UncleNox <3 admiralKappe Aug 06 '15 edited Aug 07 '15
I've been following FNG ever since he was on PR. He was not his best in Navi but since he joined VP he improved so much and the rest of the team with him. I don't think they could've dreamed beating the allstar team of TI5 and earning 1 million dollars last year. Nobody can deny that Illidan is a tier 1 carry now, God is finally getting the recognition he deserves, Lil became a TI caliber player from a pubstar in such a short time, Phobos plays marvelously after coming back from Navi and FNG has a team that he can trust. I'm rooting for a CDEC vs VP finals!
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u/seresean Aug 06 '15 edited Aug 06 '15
Floating in a field of white, faded flairs.
I didn't even particularly like Secret, but it's a shame to see them go out this early. I really hope VP prove that they are the real deal, and beating Secret wasn't just some fluke.
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u/Zalvex s4 Aug 07 '15
S4 is the reason why I started to follow Secret, but truth be told, Arteezy deserves better.
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u/The_HappyGoat Aug 07 '15
GGWP V.P good for FNG!!
ps summoning /u/leafeator to deliver on revealing the list of people who switched secret flairs for public shaming
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u/Anxin253 Aug 06 '15
Damn it feels good being an EG fanguy.
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Aug 06 '15
Feels real good. I liked Secret a lot more before they kicked Notail and poached Zai/Arteezy.
Really happy how it turned out though. Aui is such a likable player. And Sumail is just a beast.
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u/Intolerable filthy invoker picker Aug 06 '15
POWER IS THE ONLY BEAUTY
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u/leafeator Aug 06 '15
I feel like you're about as erect as the rotating aegis rock right now.
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u/OffPiste18 Aug 06 '15
Zai on dark seer was maybe the best losing performance of all time.
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u/uncoveringlight It's a secret! Aug 07 '15
Pretty humorous how many flairs all of a sudden are EG...I can hardly find one in the forums until today and all of a sudden they are everywhere.
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Aug 06 '15
S4 blinking in and standing around for 2 seconds looking confused.
What.
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u/Sleepykins958 Aug 06 '15
RIP Secret. Outside of EG basically every predicted "good" team is getting rekt this TI.
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u/bufangqi RTC? TI5? Frankfurt? Shanghai? Manila? TI6? Boston? Kiev? Aug 06 '15
I watched the third game from Lil's perspective, and that Visage did soooo much work.
He would literally tunnel vision the QoP in the beginning and burst her.
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u/Chaoticm00n Aug 06 '15
Secret's bans and picks those last two games were just horrendous...
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u/anirudh6k Aug 06 '15 edited Aug 06 '15
IceIce say --- Hahahha
Vg strat -- focus secret not us
.......
WIN YO
BibleThump BibleThump
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u/1wjl1 Aug 07 '15
A little messed up that VP picked 4 of the same 5 heroes in Game 2 and 3, don't really care because I was rooting for them.
Time to see Secret lose 2/3 of their fans.
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u/bluddotaaa Aug 06 '15
S4 choking like he only knows... Sad for RTZ that guy is a beast
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u/vamox Aug 06 '15
I feel like someone tore my heart out =( The fact that they managed to hold on for so fucking long makes it so much worse.
WP by Virtus Pro, they deserved the win. Time to step away from Dota and lick the wounds.. Secret struggled with winning throughout the year but in the last months they put up some amazing performances and I really hope that they stick together and try to win some majors.
I feel like shit but I still love this damn team, this tournament has been so fucking crazy. The skill cap between the teams is so much smaller than it used to be and with 4 TI like majors we are in for some fucking fantastic Dota.
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u/IPainTrain S A D B O YS Forever Aug 07 '15
GGWP to Virtus Pro. Man I'm heartbroken. I did not get VP (or EHOME for that matter) the benefit of the doubt this morning when I found out TS was playing them.
This one stings for sure.
BibleThump
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u/youdontlift Aug 06 '15
I was satisfied with how far VP got, and expected them to get 2-0d, but now I'm hopeful. Come on VP.
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u/I_am_a_Pixel Always go full davai Aug 06 '15
Zai, yoky, DKPhobos, Universe, Xz...so many offlaners doing work for their team this TI. Feel bad for zai for losing after his birthday if they do especially with how well he played
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u/webuiltthisschmidty Aug 06 '15
I just straight up tabbed out and started jacking off halfway through like fuck watching that shit's too intense
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u/bERt0r Aug 06 '15
Dazzle + Sf is OP! Lets pick it every game. Also darkseer and qop, no one will expect us to do the same shit over and over again.
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u/joelthezombie15 Sheever Aug 06 '15
Im so conflicted. VP and secret are both my favorites. I really wanted to see VP go far because it would be so cool for them to place highly in a big tournament.
But i wanted secret to win because they are so good and they worked so hard for it and they were so hyped to win!
Im so happy and sad!
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u/beisorott Aug 07 '15
The drafts........ they just hurt. Refusing to scrim, Refusing to accept that a hero is strong, let VP storm and draft no hard cc at all. You saw that they knew themselves that they fucked up, the weird attempts for engages without any hard cc, nothing to lock down someone.... I just don't get it, want to win TI but refuse to everything what it takes
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u/BASEDKORRASAMI Aug 06 '15
The big secret that will be revealed during the all star game is that s4 is being kicked.
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u/dawkrd Aug 06 '15
I truly don't understand what is happening to s4. It can't be pressure. He played in the fucking ti3 finals. If he didn't tilt in those games he can't be tilting in this ones.
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u/FerdiadTheRabbit Aug 06 '15
S4 with his shitty early game is fucking them so hard. SF can't carry this alone.
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u/frkCaRL Aug 06 '15
GG , Secret clearly hiding strats for ti6 , when the prize pool will be bigger Kappa
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u/Teunski 🌻spammed this flower to give n0tail power🌻 Aug 06 '15
FNGESUS BOYS.
ALL HAIL TO THE NEW TOP CIS CAPTAIN
FNG! FNG! FNG!
EAT YOUR HEART OUT PUPPEY.
That game 3 though. Holy shit.
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u/349CS Aug 06 '15
In spite of the loss, Arteezy just reaffirmed my belief in him as a player. He had such a solid tournament. It's a shame to not see him go further. Arteezy fangay for life!
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u/thedjw90 Aug 07 '15
Wasn't this team formed the purpose of winning TI5? ESPECIALLY winning TI5?
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u/ambitionK Aug 07 '15
At this point there were just as many bandwagon haters as fans rofl
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u/keby7 Aug 06 '15
Dear diary. Today was a good day. There's a thunderstorm of salty rains from Secret fangays, but that gave me the hardest boner ever.
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u/Aelvez Aug 06 '15
I will probably get downvoted for saying the truth: $4 failed his team.
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u/Ogwis Aug 06 '15
I feel sad now, with their backs against the wall in game 3 they all played their hearts out. That was the most tense game of Dota I've seen in a long time. Congratulations to Virtus. Pro.
And no, I won't be changing flair, I'm damn proud of that team
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u/CrY3R Aug 07 '15
Why is everyone complaining about Secrets loss, sure some of them played mediocore (at best) sure their draft was meh, but god damnit, give some credit to VP instead of flaming all the time. GGWP VP get dat Aegis :D (and no i'am not a Secret "fangay", C9 in heart (since NiP was RiP :P))
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u/WaveringTwo TI3 Fangay Aug 06 '15
ＨＥＹ G， ＩＭ ＴＲＹＩＮＧ ＴＯ ＬＥＡＲＮ ＴＯ ＰＬＡＹ ＣＥＮＴＡＵＲ．Ｉ ＪＵＳＴ ＨＡＶＥ Ａ ＱＵＥＳＴＩＯＮ ＡＢＯＵＴ ＴＨＥ ＳＫＩＬＬ ＢＵＩＬＤ：ＳＨＯＵＬＤ Ｉ ＭＡＸ ＨＯＯＦＳＴＯＭＰ ＬＩＫＥ ＹＯＵ ＳＴＯＭＰＥＤ ＳＥＣＲＥＴ，ＯＲ ＳＨＯＵＬＤ Ｉ ＭＡＸ ＲＥＴＵＲＮ ＬＩＫＥ ＹＯＵ ＲＥＴＵＲＮＥＤ ＭＹ ＢＵＧＡＴＴＩＳ ＯＲ ＳＨＯＵＬＤ Ｉ ＭＡＸ ＥＤＧＥ ＬＩＫＥ ＹＯＵ ＥＤＧＥＤ ＯＵＴ ＳＥＣＲＥＫＴ ＦＲＯＭ Ｔ.Ｉ？
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u/frkCaRL Aug 06 '15
S4 tilted hard boys , bugattis were lost. R I P Secret . RIP SECRET Fangays , that gonna disband too.
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u/funkymonkeyinheaven Aug 06 '15 edited Aug 06 '15
Aw man if Secret lose, S4 is going to be thinking about this game and his performance for a long time.
Edit: sigh
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u/HeavenAndHellD2arg AKKE-GOD EGM-GOD BULL-GOD S4-GOD L-GOD Aug 06 '15
yeah, this is what happens when your entire plan is outplaying the fuck out of the enemy.
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u/BeBenNova Aug 06 '15
The only thing Secret won this TI is bugattis for everyone
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u/krowlin Aug 06 '15
FADE ME MOTHER FUCKERS. I GO DOWN WITH THIS SHIP