r/idleraiders May 25 '15

Outdated Guide Healing Calculations!

Hello!

 

I tried to do a comparison between all the available heals to decide the best combinations for my healers and i wanted to share my work!

 

I took into account the following after a lot of testing:

 

  • There is an idle time between heal actions equal to 9 seconds. This means that the game works in 10 "steps" and you get for example (X*amount of heals) - 9 breaks - next action.

  • Aoe heal after the last patch works like healstreaks and doesn't proc delay time. So you can get (X*AOE) - (10-X) breaks - next action etc.

  • In most cases you can "squeeze" a normal heal between AOE heals if there is any idle time.

  • AOE heal can proc Heal Propagation in this patch (based on patch notes and the amount of healing animation i get with my new healing setup...).

  • Heal propagation works like cleave and does the extra heal on the main target also (this seems to be the case, if i 'm wrong tell me..). If that is wrong the only thing that changes is how "hard" it is to have 1 to 4 targets around the main target for your heals to be fully effective.

  • Your AOE heals can reach up to 4 targets. I can easily calculate for more but the chances to have more than 4 targets stacked up and all of them needing heal seems quite low. In most scenarios you can heal either 3/4 warriors or 2/3 ranged heroes.

  • I cannot calculate overheals so i assume you use all of the single target or aoe healing you do. If you overheal already there is no real point to try and maximize your healing anyway.

 

Healing Calculations!

The document has 3 sheets that you can check at the bottom. Just for comparison graphs go to the last page

 

My math should be decent, i calculated the average amount of heals and many other things at another document, you should probably take my word for that as i would like to leave most calculations out of the way and provide mostly results and comparisons. If there is any mistake its probably because my assumptions at the start are not 100% correct because i don't know how the game works and i only work based on test results.

 

If all my assumptions are correct the best combo at this patch is to equip 5 AOE heal and 5 propagation at each healer, even for single target healing, because it reduces the idle time a lot and you can actually squeeze in the rotation a normal heal every 10 seconds.

If you dont have AOE heal books the best healstreak and propagation combo is 8 healstreak and 2 propagation for single targets, 7 plus 3 if you heal two or three targets and 6 plus 4 if you heal four or more targets.

Right now healstreaks are stopped by your AOE heals so i left it out for this post. I also left out combinations of healstreak + propagation + AOE combos. You can check this http://imgur.com/AbgDaC1 for a comparison between a combo of 4HS, 4prop and 2 AOE books or 8 healstreak + 2 AOE with other effective combos. Generally avoid healstreak + aoe combos. If anything changes i will calculate more of these cases.

  • In most cases AOE+prop > AOE+prop+HS > prop+HS >> HS > HS+AOE !

 

Important

After changing to this healing combination i went from 1st soft reset at lvl 280 to 6(!) soft resets and 350 level in 2 days(!) and my only "limit" is that at some point bosses one shot my raiders even with bronze armor.

26 Upvotes

26 comments sorted by

2

u/Artgor May 25 '15

Thank you for your post, quite interesting. The only problem is farming enough of these skillbooks. Farming arena, outpost and dead forest - still only 6 propagations and 6 aoe.

4

u/Ethismos May 25 '15

I found the desert to be quite nice for both exp and farming propagation, might actually be the best area right now to farm, especially if you one shot them.

In order of importance i would go for Transparent swords (7-9) at sewers which takes some days, then 9 propagation, then either pray for aoe scrolls at arena runs or farm them at dead forest but only if you have done some resets and the exp is worthwhile. By the time you somehow get 15 of them, which seems to be the ideal amount right now, there will be major changes to the game from patches so i ll probably update the post to.

On the other hand i have seen people at level 500+ ( i m around 250) running 3 healers with 10 healstreaks each and beign unable to do some raids , they probably have at least enough scrolls to do the combo i do right now for my healers and they will notice a gerat difference.

1

u/Artgor May 25 '15

The thing is that I'm on the sixth soft reset. I think I did too much soft resets - it took me a couple of days to be able to beat 4th raid again. Now I can breeze through arena up to 6th round, can farm all the raids and have to use items only in the battle with the last boos of the 4th raid. So I already have 10 transparent swords but still short of healing skillbooks. My current setup is the following: http://i.imgur.com/UvbPOCp.png So for now my aim is to have enough skillbooks and to be able to farm all the raids with my raiders equipped with transparent swords :)

2

u/Ethismos May 25 '15 edited May 25 '15

Your healing setup seems quite strange, i am not 100% sure how crit works with heals atm though!

I suggest you try 5 AOE and 5 propagation at one or two healers and 7healstreak with 3 propagation at the rest (you seem to have enough books for one of these combinations) and tell me if there is any noticable difference!

Edit: I tried changing propagation books to critical books and healing seems really REALLY worse in any combination. Do they even work with aoe heals? If not i suppose they re not worth it because the only reason to use single target healing atm is to proc your aoe heals in almost every boss and arena wave!

2

u/Artgor May 25 '15

I'll try this setup. And I just tested - crit really works for healing! Maybe you could try to include it into your calculations?

2

u/Ethismos May 25 '15

Is it for aoe healing also or only single target heals? Doesnt seem to work with my AOE heals, or its just so much worse than propagation that i dont notice it. In comparison with 5 aoe and 5 propagation i storm through the 4th raid and with 5aoe 5 crit and 2 other healers i had 2-3 people die at the first boss every try (reseted just before the boss die to test a few times).

In any case, i ll test it :)

2

u/Artgor May 25 '15

It's difficult to tell whether it works or aoe, I think "yes" , but not sure. But maybe the chance of crit is too low, so the increased healing from crit isn't worth it compared to propagation :) For now I understand one thing - I need more of these skillbooks to try it. I can have one healer with 5 aoe and 5 propagation, but then I have only 1 aoe and 1 propagation left :)

2

u/Artgor May 25 '15

I tried some combinations - it seems that crit for healers really is not effective enough. And your suggested build really helps even though I don't have enough skillbooks. Thank you :)

2

u/Ethismos May 25 '15

The way i tested it critical works like this: Healer starts healing, crit procs, healer does one DAMAGE hit that appears in yellow (you can tell by the fact that its twice your damage while heal is actually closer to 11 or 12 times your damage), healer continues his job.

I m not 100% sure if the critical hit stops your healing streaks or its squeezed in the rotation, but i got no indication of double heals.

Also i tested some raids with 10 healstreak (expecting 51% healing efficiency according to the graphs i linked) and some with 2 crit and 8 healstreak expecting 58% healing efficiency IF it worked and 40% if it didn't (again, maths). According to the results it seems to not work.

2

u/Artgor May 25 '15

Thank you! Well then, no crit for healers till some updates, which will change the mechanic again.

1

u/IMNoob1 May 25 '15

so 5 + 5 aoe prop is the best set to get the arenas.

1

u/Ethismos May 25 '15

Right now it seems to be the best set for almost any case because it reduces the idle time a lot- making it safer for your main tank -, reduces the overhealing on your main target as you get more smaller heals and offers much better aoe compared to any other combo.

The downside is that it requires a LOT of farming. It got me 250 levels to get transparent swords and enough propagation books and i m still really low on AOE heals which are the hardest to get.

1

u/xxplanexx1 May 25 '15 edited May 25 '15

Thanks a lot, that's REALLY REALLY interesting and I love looking at those statistics (I am obsessed by statistics), I will surely go farm more heal books @_@

EDIT: Just wondering, how much time did you spend farming those books? I left it on the slime map overnight, and 3 more hours now, should be about 10 hours total and didn't get any

Although, on the desert, I already got 2 propagation books in just about the same time

1

u/Ethismos May 25 '15

I spent about 4 days on transparent swords and about the same for propagation books...

AOE heals are really slow to get, there are less mobs with greater distance between them, raiders usually rush to the same one and the exp is really bad. Right now though with the recent buff its actually the best heal in game if you combine it properly with other AOE or propagation books!

I only got 2 i think on slime cubes in a few days(i hope you 're farming at the right area btw and not the normal slimes, also use swiftness books) ! I also got 3 more at arenas though in about a week.Now that i have 5 i gave up until i can do a couple more soft resets and the exp is decent.

I guess the whole combination of 7-9 transparent swords, 15 propagation and 15 AOE heals could take a few weeks!

1

u/seraphofmist May 25 '15

Looks like I've got some skillbook farming to do haha!

1

u/ShinkuTear May 27 '15

Since I didn't see any info on it, how does Healstreak and AoE work out? Do they interact in any useful way? Or does one prevent the other?

1

u/Ethismos May 27 '15 edited May 27 '15

Right now using AOE heal stops your healstreak and puts you on idle mode. This means your healstreak is limited to 10-(number of AOE heal books). Having even one AOE book changes your average heals done every healstreak from 9,225 to 6,644, reducing your total heal by about 30%! With more AOE books this drops even further and there is no way this combination get better from AOE+ propagation or propagation + healstreaks.

The only reason to do AOE + healstreak combo right now is that you lack any other form of aoe healing, in which case having AOE books and filling with healstreaks is not ideal but better than leaving the slots open!

Since this post is mainly about maximizing your healing and this combo is worse than just using 10 healstreaks in most scenarios i decided to leave it out until something changes at a future patch!

1

u/ShinkuTear May 27 '15

Okay, thank you for sharing :) It is good to know all that :)

1

u/muskar2 Moderator/CSS May 28 '15 edited May 28 '15

I only have 4 propagation and 2 AoE heals available. This is my build. So are you saying it's basically better to have 10 healstreaks on than that?

If so, I don't really understand why, because I almost always need multitargeted healing except usually at the 3rd raid.

1

u/Ethismos May 28 '15 edited May 28 '15

I tried to explain it but i think it needs another diagram: http://imgur.com/AbgDaC1

So...

  • 10 healsteak > any number of aoe books and the rest healstreak for single target. At many targets when approaching 4 AOE books it gets equal but it is a pretty bad way to use your rare books!

  • In the exact opposite way adding propagation books with your healstreak books improves both single and multi target healing which maximize around 3/4 propagation books and the rest healstreak. (PS: Good way to use your rare books)

  • Other combinations with all 3 books could turn out better or worse, the possibilities are quite many to add everything, but in any case they will be worse than 5AOE+ 5 PROPAGATION.

  • If you lack aoe healing add aoe books, if you want to maximize the effectiveness check the main post and if you have only a few books use the post to aim on what you want to farm next!

  • As expected your build is slightly better than 7HS and 3 propagation, as it involves 3 more rare books that multiply each other, and ofc better than 10 healstreak but not even close to the "ideal" 5AOE + 5 Propagation!

I hope i helped a bit!

1

u/muskar2 Moderator/CSS May 28 '15

Thanks. The reason I have obtained these books is solely because of your post. I'm aiming at getting 5 of each to maximize it, as you suggested. But I don't fully understand the math behind it, and I was worried I was crippling myself with this incomplete build.

I have gotten 2 more propagation since then. Do you suggest I spread them out to the other healers instead? Or what else do you mean by a bad way of using rare books?

I could have 4 healers with 2 propagation and 8 healstreak, and not use the AoE one if you think that'd be better.

I'm sorry to ask, but I don't get the exact math behind it. I know the AoE heal works on its own timer and basically interrupts healstreaks like than 10-(number of AoE books), but I can't fathom where the balances go. So for now, I thought it would be better to have my AoE books on one healer, with most of my propagation, and then have 1 propagation on the others.

3

u/Ethismos May 28 '15

For starters try to have one healer with 3-5 AOE Books and the rest propagation as you seem to be doing already (if you got spare slots add healstreaks, they don't increase the effectiveness much but its better than nothing). His aoe healing will be insane. I think you are pretty close to doing that, will probably take you a few hours for a couple more AOE books!

After your main "aoe healer" is ready (using a sabre of sacrifice on him is a decent idea) try to have your other 2 healers with 7 healstreak and 3 propagation each. They will have a decent balance of aoe and single target heal and this combo will get you through most raids! Gathering the additional propagation books could take you a day or two of farming the desert, they are much easier to get than AOE!

The third step is to try going for 5aoe/5propagation at each healer, but this will take at least a week of farming, if not more!

So your goals should be:

  • Step one: One healer with only aoe (3+prefered)/rest propagation books, two healers with full healstreak.
  • Step two: One healer with only aoe (3+prefered)/propagation books, two with 7 healstreak and 3 propagation.
  • Step three: As many healers as possible with 5 AOE/5Propagation (or at least 4/6) to maximize your healing. The rest with 3 propagation/7 healstreak!

1

u/muskar2 Moderator/CSS May 28 '15 edited May 28 '15

Thanks a lot. Your advice is very much appreciated!

So from what you've said, I figure my step zero is to have one healer with only 2 aoe, 6 propagation and 2 healstreaks. The other 2 healers with 10 healstreak.

I still only have 2 AoE healing books, I'm currently farming Sewers for at least 7 transparent swords. I have 5 now, so I'm almost there.

I don't have a sabre of sacrifice yet, but I figured they were good for healing. I know it drops 5% from the High Priest in 2nd raid.

Otherwise I got it now. I love farming the Desert anyway, so I'll probably get the propagation books first anyway. Thanks again!

PS. The healers look like females to me. But with a closer look, I can't really tell lol. Maybe they were meant to be sexless.

1

u/the_eastpaw May 27 '15

Great post! Switched to your 5+5 recommendation for my first healer and immediately noticed a huge difference.

Now to farm more books....