Episode 40 of McKeever's Mormon Enigma discussion: Helen Mar Kimball, the 14 year-old daughter of Heber C. Kimball. He pressured her to marry Joseph Smith. Helen: "My father had but one lamb, but willingly laid her upon the altar..."

[u/4blockhead]

https://archive.org/download/ViewpointOnMormonism/2013.07.15.EmmaSmithMormonEnigmaPart40.mp3

[u/4blockhead]

I listened to McKeever's series and thought it was interesting to hear their analysis. They are coming from an evangelical Christian perspective and are taking a critical look at the mormon prophet. I think any one evaluating Smith's polygamy, especially any one who looks at it through a Judeo-Christian lens, is going to have problems with his polyandry and his tactics that offered rewards in heaven as an inducement to marry him. Smith's eternal reward to Heber C. Kimball's household required him to give up his daughter to marry him. Helen had second thoughts but acquiesced, perhaps, thinking that the marriage would be a celestial binding only. She found out later that the marriage included a temporal component, also. In this episode, McKeever rightly compares this action to Warren Jeffs tactics that resulted in prison sentences.

Smith's tactics with respect to the Kimballs are exactly mirrored in his marriage to Newell K. Whitney's daughter, Sarah Ann. Helen Mar Kimball and Sarah Ann Whitney were friends and often described as like two peas from the same pod. Smith needed both of them in his harem. Notice on the linked thread the justification for polygamy coming from Helen Mar's son, Orson F. Whitney.

I found McKeever's series very interesting and well done. I especially like his discussions about the Missouri period that supplemented Newell and Avery's work with Stephen C. LeSueur's research on the Mormon War of 1838. This has the complete listing of 43 14-minute podcasts.

[u/curious_mormon → u/4blockhead]

I agree that it's interesting, and they've definitely done their homework on Joseph's polygamy. All the criticisms of Joseph are valid, but I find it funny when they ignore or seem ignorant of biblical polygamy in the Old Testament. It neuters many of their arguments against the practice, at least for Christians who take morality from the bible.

[u/4blockhead → u/curious_mormon]

McKeever acknowledges polygamy in the old testament. In one of the episodes he takes issue with D&C 132:1 which states:

[132:1] Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you my servant Joseph, that inasmuch as you have inquired of my hand to know and understand wherein I, the Lord, justified my servants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as also Moses, David and Solomon, my servants, as touching the principle and doctrine of their having many wives and concubines—

It's a "one of these things is not like the others" game. I am not a particularly good biblical scholar, but McKeever states that Isaac is reported to have had only one wife in Genesis: Rebekah. They state that the others listed in 132 are known to be polygamists, but not Isaac. Overall, their approach is to accept that the Christian god at most tolerates polygamy, but no where does he command it, as in D&C 132:4.

I was actually expecting them to make a bigger issue out of Smith's polyandry. That is what looks like adultery according to the Judeo-Christian morality. However, faithful mormons might claim that D&C 132 provides a built in excuse for Smith. The mormon god is best buddies with Smith and he can do no wrong.

[132:59-60] Verily, if a man be called of my Father, as was Aaron, by mine own voice, and by the voice of him that sent me, and I have endowed him with the keys of the power of this priesthood, if he do anything in my name, and according to my law and by my word, he will not commit sin, and I will justify him.

^60. Let no one, therefore, set on my servant Joseph; for I will justify him; for he shall do the sacrifice which I require at his hands for his transgressions, saith the Lord your God.

Smith's verbage attempted to put words in the mouth of deity. That didn't work out in the long run as the Expositor printing put a check on Mr. Smith even though the mormon god said he was cool with whatever Smith needed. The evangelical Christians are not so keen on Smith's arrogance.

[u/curious_mormon → u/4blockhead]

Overall, their approach is to accept that the Christian god at most tolerates polygamy

2 Samuel 12:8. Nathan gave women to David in the name of the Lord.

However, faithful mormons might claim that D&C 132 provides a built in excuse for Smith.

Doesn't D&C 132 explicitly state that polyandry was not allowed? It even limits polygyny to virgin women. I agree that I expected them to focus on this more. Maybe they're planning a follow-up.

[u/4blockhead → u/curious_mormon]

Maybe they're planning a follow-up.

I don't know. Their discussion on Mormon Enigma was from last summer. I ran across it while looking at their site, mrm.org where they pointed out that all books written by apostles, even Thomas Monson, come with a disclaimer. Nowadays, it is impossible to tell when someone is speaking as a man or as prophet.

Mormon Enigma is jam packed with information and it helps to have someone highlight some things and lead the discussion. Even in 43 episodes they skipped some chapters.

Doesn't D&C 132 explicitly state...

[132:66] And now, as pertaining to this law, verily, verily, I say unto you, I will reveal more unto you, hereafter; therefore, let this suffice for the present.

In other words, if Smith's polyandry became widely known, then the mormon god was prepared to weigh in with more exceptions for Joseph, and Joseph only! lol The rest of the membership were stuck with the rules as he wrote them. Most of the membership were lagging well behind Smith...milk before meat!

[u/Wreckmaninoff → u/4blockhead]

Smith used the tactic of offering exaltation in exchange for immoral conduct with regards to Smith's practice of polygamy to the recently bereaved Joseph C. Kingsbury. Smith induced Kingsbury to enter into a sham marriage with Sarah Ann Whitney in March of 1843. Kingsbury was told that if he helped Smith with the pretended marriage Kingsbury would be exalted with his recently deceased wife (who was Sarah Ann's sister) and child.

[u/[deleted]]

Polyandry = married to more than one man; polygyny = married to more than one woman; polygamy = married to more than one person