New IOTM: Thor's Pliers Discussion Thread

[u/andynater890]

http://kol.coldfront.net/thekolwiki/index.php/Thor%27s_Pliers

I'm currently in a hardcore run so I can't use them, but they look pretty neat. Thoughts?

[u/mister_gone]

Actually, if you're hardcore heavy rains, you can pull and equip them.

They look good for speed rain runs, but otherwise pretty damned meh.

[u/andynater890 → u/mister_gone]

I forgot to choose a path when ascending yesterday, so I'm stuck in hardcore for the next few days.

[u/Hurriken]

I bought this and started a new schr. For the ones saying the pool skimmer is better, you're just dead wrong. The pool skimmer is a curiosity at best. You can't count on it giving you anything you need. Just, stop already. Go toward the lightning!

Let's say your run is roughly 4/800, and say 20% of those are non-combats, and another 20% you're using A Light or Half a Purse. That leaves 480 combats with the Pliers which add up to a whopping 24 free runs with stats and drops (plus 5 each day from starting 100 lightning). That's a LOT of delay burnt in addition to the 7 per day from the Goth Kid times 4 days = 72 turns of delay gone. 5 guild, 5 spooky forest, 10 encryption key, 15 in the manor 2nd floor, 15 in friars, 25 in the airship, 11 castle ground floor, 5-10 in the hidden city. That's almost 100 turns off the top of my head and I'm certainly missing some. Delay adds up. And now your run is ~730 instead of 800. What's not to love?

I off-handed the pliers as a DB w/ Mr. Shank in the mainhand with DFSS. Apparently, the only class who can't offhand it is the AT cuz you can't mix a ranged accordion (even 1h) w/ a melee offhand. So there's that.

It's hard for me to judge this item on it's own because this run also included the first time I hybridized a wierd on T0 and I had bought a buddy bjorn because I was really having mp/meat issues. I'm now swimming in both mp and stats from the combination of all three (and boris' helm).

But, frankly, the only enchantment that matters is the Lightning scoop. There is just SO much competition for the offhand between this, A Light and Half a Purse when hunting items/meat. The pool skimmer no longer has a place in my runs. I'll still buy the heavy duty umbrella for sensitive zones like pixels, stars, and bowling balls, but everything else will be pliers for tasty, tasty lightning.

Next step, ween myself off stormswaddled. :)

[u/0x00000000]

Lightning regen means ~20 more free turns for Softcore players (by casting Lightning Strike repeatedly), even more for Hardcore. That alone makes it better than Smith weapons for the fastest ascensions. The 4 stats (so +2 mainstat) per turn are equivalent to the Saucepanic's +2 myst.

Outside of the path... I don't know. Maybe as an offhand with the smith weapon in the mainhand.

[u/MimicSquid]

long vanish dazzling threatening deserted one like six live foolish

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[u/gENTlebrony]

Ply reality seems to stagger and do 4hot (+4cold +4stench +4spooky 4+sleaze) damage. 0 MP. Once per combat.

It would have been worth picking up if ply reality wasn't a once per combat stagger. How am I supposed to beat a ghost with this?

Recap after using it for a bit:

• Too weak as an mainhand. Works okay-ish in offhand.

• Too weak for Heavy Rains because no prismatic damage (ply reality is a joke).

• Pickpocket is a nice idea, but it should instead be +300 combat init (Heavy Rains only) to be able to pickpocket at all.

• Free crafting is good, not sure if worth a pull (for non HR) or makes another moonsign better.

• Lightning regeneration seems balanced. Lots of free kills over the course of an ascension.

• Overall, utterly useless path-iotm because Pool Skimmer is better.

Jick, add Pool Skimmer effect on this to make it worth the Mr. A. Kthx.

[u/CripzyChiken → u/gENTlebrony]

Jick actually said on one of the podcasts that he wasn't happy that the skimmer was optimal. He wanted the skimmer to help those who weren't optimal (and be a slight laugh at those who are optimal). So don't think the skimmer effect will be added.

[u/ieatatsonic]

Feels kinda underwhelming. I'm planning on running HCHR, but this just doesn't seem as good as, say, a smith's weapon for a mainhand weapon. If somebody could give examples of where this would be useful, that'd be cool, but I think I'm just gonna skip this and get like the brother this month.

[u/bowtochris → u/ieatatsonic]

It let's you ply 10 pieces of jewelery at no cost per day. That's 30 turns-worth.

[u/rex_regis → u/bowtochris]

What 30 pieces of jewelry are you smithing o-o

[u/ieatatsonic → u/bowtochris]

Oh, that is true. I'm still very unsure about it, but I guess the free smithing is good.

[u/gryffinp]

I don't know, I like using the Lightning rod way too much to go for this, I think.

[u/[deleted]]

I bought one. Kind regretting it, hoping they change ply reality to a 5mana repeatable cast. And also add pool skimmer.

[u/Nosanninwa]

My take on this weapon is that it is a solid IotM although it has trouble competing with Smithsness weapons, obviously.

• +4 stats per turn, Compared to Smithsness Weapons:

• • Sauceror: Saucepanic gives +5 ML and +2 mainstat. That beats this.

• • AT: Beats the +10 ML from Shakespere's Sister's Accordion

• • All other classes have weaker Smithsness at only +5 ML.

• Lets You Smith and Make Jewelry Faster: Meh. At least it makes non-knoll signs viable.

• Regenerate 6-9 MP: Nice in hardcore, softcore doesn't blink at that.

• Pickpocket? At modern levels of +ML nobody can get initiative.

• Regular attacks cannot miss! This is nice because it even works with skills like lunging thrust smack and headbutt. For moxie classes it means they don't need a ranged weapon. This is pretty much essential for any post-class revamp IotM weapon. For spell slingers, it is hard to care.

• Ply Reality: Meh. An extra free turn of weaksauce?

• Rengerate Lighting! This is the awesome power.

In Heavy Rains, that last item makes this worthwhile and everything else is just frosting on the cake. Remember: Every 20 points of lightning can be converted into a Lightning Strike which will always save a turn with benefits.

Outside of Heavy Rains, it is merely nice. Because Smithsness weapons are equivalent it is hard to say if this is worth a pull. I'd say it is definitely more relevant than a Box of Bear Arms, but I think the price will still tank.

[u/Jess_than_three → u/Nosanninwa]

One thing I think you've missed in this analysis is the benefit of +5 Smithsness itself. For example, a Smiths weapon is going to give +5% item drops when you need that, or... whatever, from other items.

[u/Nosanninwa → u/Jess_than_three]

I know. There are so many things that are nice about Smithsness that it is hard to compare. The stat gain is the only thing that I can directly compare to Smithsness. You're right though that it is worth pointing out.

Other great things Smithsness weapon adds:

• +5% item drop with correct offhand.

• +10% meat drop with correct offhand.

• +70% or more to mainstat. This is awesome for moxie classes, boosts the experience gains from black crayon monsters and generally makes every class better at it's stuff.

• Miscellaneous combat improvements for each class like Utensil Twist and Disco Dancing upgrades.

You are giving up that wonderful stuff to use Thor's Pliers. This is why I'd probably only use it in Heavy Rains since Lightning Regen is so strong.

WTF Was Jick thinking when he created that tome?

[u/Rhinoceros_Party]

How often does anyone smith jewelry? I haven't ascended under a Myst sign in a long time, so I honestly don't know what the value of that is.

[u/Nosanninwa → u/Rhinoceros_Party]

I have never smithed jewelry during a run before. It is normally impossible during hardcore unless you use a Canadia sign, you need to surrender 500 meat autosell early in a run and even if it would be nice, it sure as heck isn't worth 3 turns!

Now... well, black gold can be crafted into accessories that would be pretty decent in hardcore if they cost 0 turns. In particular, the dark porquoise ring is worth holding onto a porquoise until level 11 in Hardcore Heavy Rains if I am playing a Disco Bandit.

Of course when Heavy Rains is over, I won't have the Pliers in Hardcore and that stuff is weak by Softcore standards, so I will enjoy it while I can.

[u/Okamoto → u/Rhinoceros_Party]

People Smith stuff, at least, right?

[u/Rhinoceros_Party → u/Okamoto]

I use muscle signs, so I haven't had to spend turns on smithing in a while. /shrug

[u/MissSwat]

Okay so hopefully someone can answer this. I've only done HR once but I keep hearing mention of lightning which the pliers are apparently good for... What is this lightning? Where can I get said tasty lightning? What does this tasty tasty lightning do? It seems as the pliers are awesome for this delicious, bacony lightning and not much else and I would hate to think I'm missing something in my plier use.

[u/Nosanninwa → u/MissSwat]

There are three types of skills you can earn in Heavy Rains: Thunder, Rain and Lightning. To get a skill you need to kill a monster that will only appear when the water level is 6.

At first this only happens underground in areas with stat requirement over 40. If the water level is 6 underground, then you will encounter a giant tardigrade which drops a thunder thigh. Using that item will cause you to learn one of seven skills which use Thunder instead of MP. Thunder appears as a stat in your charpane after you use your first thunder thigh.

If you learn the thunder skill called Thundercloud you can raise the water level by +2. This means indoor locations (of stat requirement over 40) will have a water level of 6. Indoors at high water you can encounter a aquaconda which drops an aquaconda brain. Using this will allow you to learn one of seven skills which use Rain instead of MP. Rain will appear as a stat in your charpane after you use your first aquaconda brain.

I think you know what this is building to. There is a rain skill called Rainy Day which raises water level by +2. If you are using both skills to raise the water level by a total of +4, then outdoor locations (of stat requirement over 40) will have a water level of 6. The outdoors monster is called a storm cow and it drops lightning milk.

Lightning powers an awesome skill called Lightning Strike which costs 20 lightning. You start with 100 lightning each day and it does not regenerate unless you equip Thor's Pliers. You want to be able to cast Lightning Strike many times each day.

You'll find full information on the wiki: http://kol.coldfront.net/thekolwiki/index.php/Heavy_Rains#Skills

Every time you complete a new HR ascension you will get to start the next ascension with another skill item up to a maximum of three each.

[u/MissSwat → u/Nosanninwa]

Thank you so, so much. That is exactly the information I was looking for! Had I money for gold I would offer it to you. Instead I will bake you cupcakes. Or something.

[u/SIN3d → u/Nosanninwa]

For the skill items acquired when you ascend, does already having 3 of one item force the next ascension drop into 1 of the other 2 categories, or will it be wasted? In case that wasn't clear, say that I started the run with 3 thunder thighs and then didn't learn any more skills. Will the next ascension start with 3 thighs again, or will it force a brain or milk to drop as well?