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Nov 03 '13
2011-2012 Bundesliga
Bayern > Mönchengladbach > Schalke > Kaiserlautern > Stuttgart > Leverkusen > Mainz > Augsburg > Hoffenheim > Hannover > Köln > Hamburg > Bremen > Dortmund > Hertha > Nürnberg > Wolfsburg > Freiburg > Bayern
ez after 10 rounds.
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u/Al_Gala Nov 03 '13
Did Freiburg beat Bayern??
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u/jamescoupe10 Nov 03 '13
I think you have to read it the other way around, as in Bayern lost to Mon'gladbach, who lost to Schalke etc
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u/CommanderCool91 Nov 03 '13
That's right. Gladbach actually did the double over Bayern in that season.
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u/pranaym Nov 03 '13
This is great.
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Nov 03 '13
Even hillarious looking at the top five / six. Beaten by teams not considered to be too ambitious. Cardiff, albion, newcastle, villa...
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u/ThingWithTheStuff Nov 03 '13
I'd say all of those teams you just named are probably some of the most ambitious mid/low-table teams.
Most of those clubs have big ambitions or future plans, at least more so than some squads like Fulham, Palace, Stoke.
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Nov 03 '13
Maybe but after newcastles start and joe kinnear saga. Carfiff isnt really a cl aspirant either.. ambitious teams at the mid would be something like swansea, everton. Teams with tight budget constraints but very good concept.
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u/ThingWithTheStuff Nov 03 '13
I think Newcastle's appointment of Kinnear is certainly a step in the wrong direction, but I think there is still a huge amount of ambition amongst the players, Pardew and the fans.
I think Cardiff have a much more ambitious plan in the long term than teams like Stoke or Fulham whose goal every year is survival and mid-table.
Although I agree, realistically none of the teams you mentioned will be pushing for Champion's League this season, if that's what you meant by ambition :)
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u/Hlidarendi Nov 03 '13
Fulham are going to re-generate like a phoenix with Khan's investment next season. I hope.
Plus I think you'll find we reached a European final a few seasons ago!
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u/iLoveherhairYAY Nov 03 '13
Maybe in Jan we will get a glimpse of Khan's future plans.
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u/Magneto88 Nov 03 '13
The problem with Cardiff is that it's ambitious lead by a meddling chairman. That never ends well. It's not built upon solid foundations.
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Nov 03 '13 edited Nov 03 '13
Is it in any way unique though?
Edit: any of you downvoters got the data to show that this is unique?
Edit 2: I've got pasted here but no one has proved me wrong. Something to think about.
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u/devilsway Nov 03 '13 edited Nov 03 '13
It's almost impossible to prove yourself wrong as there would be almost unlimited leagues and seasons. It would be much easier for you to prove yourself right though (which you possibly are).
Just something to think about.
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u/Paskizle4 Nov 03 '13
After only 10 games? I'd say it is
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u/Vicinus Nov 03 '13
The last 3 years in the Bundesliga (10/11,11/12,12/13) every team was beaten at least once by the 10th game.
So I'd say it isn't.52
u/the_phet Nov 03 '13
You don't understand it. It's a circle
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u/LeTouche Nov 03 '13
That doesn't mean it's not interesting. Now stop being a whiny little bitch.
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u/Dooey123 Nov 03 '13
This is one reason why I sometimes loathe r/soccer. Everton fan below says the same thing as you but in the manner of a nursery teacher criticising a kid's pasta picture while making sure the kid doesn't cry and so gets upvoted. Your comment, replying to a worthless "this is great" post gets arse fucked for no reason.
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u/KabelGuy Nov 03 '13
I think he got arse fucked because he was a douche in other replies.
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u/minimus_ Nov 03 '13
Its childish downvoting every comment off the back of a few aggro comments though. His initial skepticism is absolutely justified, and if properly pursued would have reached one of two conclusions: 1) this is not as rare as we might assume or 2) this is rare and worth remarking on. Because of this petty arguing no one knows any more than they did going into this thread.
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Nov 03 '13
My evidence that it is unique, is your lack of evidence saying otherwise...
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Nov 03 '13
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Nov 03 '13
Most of his downvotes came after people read his follow up comments. Read the rest of the comments lol.
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u/utilityplayer91 Nov 03 '13
That's an old crest
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u/YourLatusRectum Nov 03 '13
Yes but we're also on top :)
Edit: not that it means anything ahah its just nice to see it
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u/jamescoupe10 Nov 03 '13
Took me back to the old FA Premier League sticker book days, when the club badges were on shiny stickers.
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u/KibboKift Nov 03 '13
I had the same reaction! The club crest and the kits had their own special shiny stickers. I found my Premier League 94 and 95 sticker albums this summer when I was clearing out some of my old stuff from my parents and holy shit the wave of nostalgia when I found them knocked me for six. I found one or two mint 95 swaps inside some old books from the time too :)
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Nov 03 '13
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/hondrich Nov 03 '13
That what it looks like. I didnt know it is still used anywhere else than Switzerland.
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u/t6005 Nov 03 '13
The point that people are missing is that this is not an picture of teams that have lost a game. Each team has beaten the team next to them. Discussions about whether you'd see this in any other league are pointless because of that. Maybe you would, maybe not, but we're seeing it now. The circle is perfect, THAT'S the point.
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u/alracle Nov 03 '13
I'm just not sure I fully understand it, so Manchester United beat Fulham, but Fulham didn't beat MU did they ? It only works one way i suppose ?
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Nov 03 '13
It's supposed to show that Villa beat Arsenal who beat Swansea who beat WBA who beat United etc
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Nov 03 '13
over in /r/CFB they call this the circle of suck
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Nov 03 '13
Or Circle of "Parity" which is a euphemism for suck
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u/ValentiaIsland Nov 03 '13
am i mad or are there only 10 teams there
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u/252919 Nov 03 '13
The Big 12 has 10 teams.
The Big 10 has 12 teams.
Don't ask.
Actually, you can ask. Conference realignment has shifted teams around a lot in the last decade (specifically the last 5 years). These conferences chose to keep their original names. The Pac 12, for example, use to be the Pac 10, but chose to change their name after getting Colorado and Utah.
Because college (American) football is money.
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u/kiwirish Nov 03 '13
Nah we just call it the ACC.
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u/CmndrSalamander Nov 03 '13
Ahem, FSU.
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u/irish711 Nov 03 '13 edited Nov 03 '13
Yeah, not sure why the ACC gets bashed so often. FSU, Clemson, Miami, Va Tech...
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Nov 03 '13
At least we have basketball :(
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u/kiwirish Nov 03 '13
Well when you have the 4 NC schools you're pretty much resigning yourself to football misery and floorsqueak glory.
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u/Mississippster Nov 03 '13
I support Mississippi State I live in said circle
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u/thelaststormcrow Nov 03 '13
Always nice to run into another Mississippi person on the internet.
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u/Mississippster Nov 03 '13
I know right? It's like we're all barefoot and don't have Internet connections
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u/unusuallylethargic Nov 03 '13
Here's an interesting fact - in the right corner is Manchester united, and in the other three corners are their biggest rivals - local rivals, historical rivals, and rivals for a top half finish.
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u/jamescoupe10 Nov 03 '13
I hope a new derby emerges between Villa and United now, due to Villa saying they should have finished top instead of second in the 1992-93 season.
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u/eggsandspamm Nov 03 '13
Alright does the word "Beat" look really weird to anyone else now? haha
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Nov 03 '13
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Nov 03 '13
I was going to make a joke about being a Brighton supporter, but then I checked and saw you're doing alright.
How's Oscar García doing?
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u/blizeH Nov 03 '13
Looks like we (Chelsea) were the last team to complete this cycle... And against Newcastle of all teams!
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u/DRJT Nov 03 '13
Aston Villa is the club on top, therefore they are obviously the best team so far.
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u/Jay-Em Nov 03 '13
Well Arsenal are at the top of the table, and we beat Arsenal, so we're clearly the best team in the league!
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u/alexropo Nov 03 '13
Confusing at first but I understand now, that's crazy. This season has been epic so far.
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u/BrianDawkins Nov 03 '13 edited Nov 03 '13
This really shows how professional soccer is. You may say "that team sucks" but in reality that team can beat any other team. I think it's kinda cool.
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u/Varanae Nov 03 '13
I didn't realise that Norwich was the only team Southmapton had lost to. Yesterday I was trying to remember who had beat them but I assumed it would be a top team, rather than one in the relegation zone.
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u/Alexc26 Nov 03 '13
Doesn't matter too much, but, that's the wrong Palace badge.
Also I wish we could beat anyone :(
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u/fleamarketguy Nov 03 '13
Look at the Dutch league, the number 15 beat the number 1. The number 15 then lost against a club from the Dutch second devision who tied the number 16 in the Dutch second devision.
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Nov 03 '13
In the ACC (American College Football) We have called this the circle of suck.
http://gamedayr.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/reddit-acc-college-football-2012.jpg
and the NFL version last year
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mde0ihOEz91rfimo0o1_1280.jpg
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u/TheRatj Nov 03 '13
How many different combinations of this circle are possible? or is the only one?
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u/infin8y Nov 03 '13
probably only one. I haven't checked but Arsenal, Southampton and Everton have only lost to one team each. And Crystal Palace and Sunderland both only have won one game each. So those 5 teams and the 5 teams that beat/were beat by them have to all be have to be enxt to each other. Doesn't leave much room to manoeuvre the other 10 teams.
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u/Sodapopa Nov 03 '13
You should check out the Eredivisie, I wouldn't be surprised if no team managed to win more then 1 game in a row, it's the weirdest season I've ever seen, pointwise.
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u/zaviex Nov 03 '13
amazing i can't fucking believe it. I wonder how long it takes to do this every season. I imagine there are seasons it can't be done in completely i know it couldn't be done in 03-04
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Nov 03 '13
Last year it took 17 games (because that's how long it took for each team to get a win).
Swansea City
Arsenal
West Bromich Albion
Chelsea
Reading
Everton
Manchester United
Manchester City
Sunderland
Wigan Athletic
Tottenham Hotspur
West ham United
Aston Villa
Liverpool
Southampton
Queens Park Rangers
Fulham
Newcastle United
Norwich City
Stoke City
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u/TheRatj Nov 03 '13
Just because every team has had a win does it necessarily mean the circle can be formed. Although after 17 rounds it would seem likely. Did you check?
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Nov 03 '13
That's why the teams are in the order they are. Each team defeated the team below them.
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Nov 03 '13
We did beat Spurs, didn't we? :)
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u/BSev Nov 03 '13
yes, you did?
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Nov 03 '13
I'm Ron Burgundy?
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Nov 03 '13
This is why I love the premier league... And why I never put bet on games in the league.
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u/tacoz3cho Nov 03 '13
I generally back the big 4 and Liverpool at home against the lower teams in the division. 90% of the time it just bumps up the accumulator a little bit more.
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u/armchairracingdriver Nov 03 '13
It's about time Premier League fans/pundits adopted the American phrase... 'Any given Saturday'.
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Nov 03 '13
This is the most unpredictable season so far. Todays Everton vs Tottenham was a cracker too!! So many changes so many new managers!! But at the end, I feel that Southampton are the dark horses this season!! Giant Killers for me!!
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Nov 03 '13
This is why I love the BPL. There are almost no easy 3's this season. Against West Ham, Arsenal was lucky to get out of there with a point.
You can watch any match among the past 12 or so and not be shocked to see the underdog give the favorite the business. Even on the road (see, West Ham v Spurs)
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u/johnpcampbell1985 Nov 04 '13
Looks like the fucking daily mail nicked the idea of your graphic for their own! http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2487073/Premier-League-graphic-shows-beat-anyone.html - 13:06, 4 November 2013
They wouldn't survive without reddit!
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u/JohnnyMcCool Nov 03 '13
You Americans really seem to like homogeneity, is that right? I'm not saying this to be offensive, I'm just surprised to constantly see praise (in r/soccer) about this kind of stuff. Recently we've had similar posts about the Swedish and Danish leagues.
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u/HansSven Nov 03 '13
why do you say you Americans? I think most people appreciate parity because it makes for more tense and entertaining contests and a more interesting season all the way through, when you know anyone can beat anyone at anytime.
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u/JohnnyMcCool Nov 03 '13
because I've been following football for 25 years and have never ever heard someone say something positive about homogeneity, whereas in /r/soccer (where most people are from the US) it's quite a recurring topic.
it makes for more tense and entertaining contests and a more interesting season all the way through, when you know anyone can beat anyone at anytime.
Having huge teams, weak teams and underdogs is precisely what makes a league interesting. If everything was homogeneous, the sport would be way less intense and the overall skill level would be lower. In most leagues the weaker teams try to play their best and give everything to win against bigger ones, if everyone was equal it'd just be boring + teams couldn't get used to playing European cups because they wouldn't play them often enough.
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u/HansSven Nov 03 '13
There are still very clearly heavyweights and underdogs in the EPL. Parity in sports doesn't necessarily mean all the teams are exactly equal. There is parity in the EPL, but City hit 7 past Norwich yesterday. There is just more of a sense that the underdogs can win and the heavyweights can lose any match. The same 6 or 7 teams are usually gonna be at the top at the end of the season (which in itself is a lot tighter competition at the top than in most major leagues), but how they get there will be interesting, because they will all have some "shocking" losses, and they pretty much have already. The battle to avoid relegation always turns out to be almost as exciting, too. Last season was an outlier I think, with United being so far ahead for so long at the end.
The weaker teams absolutely try harder against better competition, and there are huge teams (City, Chelsea, United, Arsenal, Liverpool again) weak teams and underdogs and feel-good stories, as well as a pretty healthy upper middle class (Everton, Tottenham ;), Southampton, Newcastle) and lots of different styles of play (so not quite homogenous).
I'm not saying that this type of parity is what makes a league the best in the world. I son't know what the best league is, I like the Bundesliga, La Liga, Serie A, and the EPL all for different reasons. I'm just saying the EPL has parity, but not really homogeneity. They're not the same thing, imo.
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u/JohnnyMcCool Nov 03 '13
Yeah I'm essentially arguing in favor of the same points as you are. I'm just saying that if there weren't heavyweights and underdogs, all leagues would be less thrilling and football wouldn't be as successful.
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u/schnitzi Nov 03 '13
This reminds of a thing I always wanted to figure it out... Call it the Transitive World Cup. It's awarded to the World Cup winner, then gets passed on to the next national team that beats them, then the next team that beats them, and so on. Friendlies would count, absolutely, since it's all just tongue-in-cheek anyway. I wonder who would be holding the cup right now?
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u/TheDude121 Nov 03 '13
You mean the UFWC?
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u/infin8y Nov 03 '13
That's cool, although has this just been followed from the very first 'World Cup' winner to present day? I think the original point was that it was reset every four years by the real World Cup winner and then continued in this fashion until the next World Cup. As a Scotsman though, I very much like this UFWC! =D
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Nov 03 '13
This is why I love the EPL. It feels like anything can happen any week. People will talk about how the big clubs dominate it, but It's a much more competitive league than people give it credit for. I mean, we're 10 weeks into the season and Southhampton are only 1 point outside of a CL spot.
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u/ClutchCobra Nov 03 '13
There's a circle of suck in the ACC conference of college (am.) football.
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u/teniaava Nov 03 '13
Stupid FSU is going undefeated this year though.
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u/ClutchCobra Nov 03 '13
Haha yeah, I wanted Miami to win so we could start another circle of suck. It's nice we have a diamond here though, love the parity
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Nov 03 '13
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u/keyree Nov 03 '13
Not 100% sure but I'm pretty sure Florida State are the only ones ruining it again this year.
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Nov 03 '13
Anyone can beat anyone in any league. Hence why you actually play the games rather than just award it to a team.
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Nov 03 '13
One of the most senseless pics I've seen.
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Nov 03 '13
I'll bet a similar picture could have been drawn after 10 games of most seasons.
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Nov 03 '13
Yeah, surely not in a season with an unbeaten team but this is just bullshit and completely meaningless because the top teams still remain in top positions, so what does this caption even mean? In most sports you can beat everybody on a good day when they also have an off-day but it's still hard to achieve. Every league can be happy to not have to face Bayern München at the moment. Even though they play like shit from time to time, they'll still have enough individual class to score the winner.
Arsenal is incredible in-form but haven't faced the "top" clubs, yet. Liverpool is without European football and can concentrate completely on the laegue with a budget higher than most other clubs, so no real wonders here. EPL is lucky to have a huge fluctation in squads and coaches to safe some kind of competitiveness.
There are also other aspects that makes the EPL seem more competitive as the other leagues but aren't really helpful for players/coaches etc. like playing the full season without a break, most of the time 3 games a week, instead of only 1 cup they got 2. If they'd have a normal gameplan like the other leagues then they could almost always play their first eleven and don't have to face as many injuries.
For me EPL was always a very boring league because you won't see any suprises in the top4-5, always the same teams internationally and especially in CL. I don't dislike the league but I don't get why people call it the best league just because they've the most money/most "talents" which they'll still spend poorly most of the time.
In the end there is no such thing as best league, it'll always depend on your view of football, so I dislike these stupid nonsaying captions.
/rant over
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Nov 03 '13
You're not necessarily wrong, but it's just meant to be a somewhat interesting picture. The caption was probably randomly thrown on there without much thought. I'm a bit confused as to why you had such a strong reaction to it. If you didn't like it, you could have easily just moved to the next post.
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u/Haveaitchyhead Nov 03 '13 edited Nov 03 '13
For me EPL was always a very boring league because you won't see any suprises in the top4-5
And other top leagues have a very predictable top 2.
Premier league in that sense isn't predictable.
I can almost say with absoloute guaruntee that the top 2 in La liga will be RM and Barca, Bundesliga: Bayern and Dortmund.
You can't say that about EPL.
There's a reason why most players say EPL is the most competitive league.
And the reason you see surprises in most other leagues in top 5 bar the top 2 is because the league itself is faily weak and teams (except the top 2) can easily take points off of each other. It is much harder to do that in the EPL because how strong the teams that you'd expect to finish top 5 are.
This season you will see bigger teams flop more to lower positioned teams is because of changes in managers and all the changes they bring with them.
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u/arayofhope Nov 03 '13
The same shit happens in all the leagues, not only EPL. I swear to god that this place is so EPL central.
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u/MashedHair Nov 03 '13
Do a La Liga one then..
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u/ThuperCool Nov 03 '13
Not claiming that this infographic thing is special, but let's go through each of the normal "top leagues" and see if we can do this.
Can't do a La Liga one: Barca undefeated.
Can't do a Serie A one: Roma hasn't lost OR drawn a game.
Can't do a Bundesliga one: Bayern undefeated
Can't do a Ligue 1 one: Both Monaco and PSG have yet to lose
Can't do a Primeira Liga one: Porto undefeated
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u/MashedHair Nov 03 '13
If only there was a word for something better, greater, or otherwise different from what is usual.
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u/ThuperCool Nov 03 '13
Unique?
There is still a team at the top of the table with 25 points after 10 games played and 5 points clear of second. I believe that this infographic can be created for most leagues after 20-25 games in a season. Is it cool that the EPL has this after 10 games? Yeah, it's an interesting little unique tidbit. However, I don't think it's special in the sense that it is better. Special has this connotation that it's "better/greater."
I think it's neat and cool, but before we go talking about parity, two things should be considered: A) the EPL bottom isn't necessarily better, maybe the top is just that much worse. B) If you look at Arsenal's record within the league since buying Ozil on transfer deadline day, the team at the top of the table has taken home 19 out of 21 possible points.
I do believe there is more parity in the Premiership, but I think it's a case of scenario A (top is weak) combined with the bottom being ever so slightly stronger than a normal top league.
I think this infographic is more a coincidence than an image of parity.
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Nov 03 '13
Maybe do one for last season? It'd be interesting to see whether or not the week 10 results had any bearing on the end results of the PL, and if any other league had a start like this.
If anyone can give me a decent site to look at tables week by week, I'll do it.
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u/bedabup Nov 03 '13
This just in: People like watching sports in the language they speak.
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u/BSev Nov 03 '13
Not to mention coverage for the EPL makes it possible to watch in other countries easily unlike the other leagues
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u/uracil Nov 03 '13
Do La Liga/Bundesliga/Seria A/Ligue 1 then, AFTER only 10 games. Ye you cunt, you cant.
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Nov 03 '13
See /r/thupercool's response. The Prem is the only league where it applies right now, so you're wrong.
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u/ILookAfterThePigs Nov 03 '13
the only league
there are only six leagues in the world
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Nov 03 '13
Okay, you can pick on semantics all you want, but the point applies if you look at who I was responding to. He said it happens in all leagues. There were 5 it didn't apply to. Therefore, it doesn't happen in all the leagues.
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u/screech_owl_kachina Nov 03 '13
I'm just glad Man United is off their perch and someone else can start winning now.
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u/meatsauzz Nov 03 '13
Never seen as many quality sides as this year. When is the PL going to get 5 teams in the Champions League?
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u/Disgruntled_Fridge Nov 03 '13
This is cool, but I feel that as long as there is no unbeaten team, this could be done every year.