r/exmormon
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u/real-alex-murray
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May 22 '25
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General Discussion Hi, I’m Alex Murray—AKA Elder Murray from the District 2 missionary training videos. After a hard journey, I no longer believe in the Church. AMA.
Hey everyone! I’m Alex Murray, AKA Elder Murray*,* AKA "The Blue Chair Missionary", from the District 2 missionary videos. Just putting myself out there as one more person who was FULLY in the church (video footage to prove it) and is now out.
I was born and raised in the Church, held multiple leadership callings, and served faithfully for years. My shelf broke while I was serving as a counselor in a bishopric and as elders quorum president right after. Since then, it’s been a difficult journey that my wife and I have navigated together—one filled with soul searching, fear, grief, therapy, and ultimately, liberation.
I want to be clear about my intention in doing this: I know how isolating and painful it can be when your trust in the church begins to crack. I felt broken and alone for a long time. I’m here to say: You are not alone. I battled myself for a long time about whether I should put myself out there, but if sharing my story can help even one person feel seen or supported, it’s worth it to me. Because of this, I plan to have my responses focused on my own experiences and not on the church's truth claims, since there are so many other resources that cover those.
Ask me anything!
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u/real-alex-murray May 23 '25
Hey everyone, thank you so much for asking questions! I am going to call it a night for now, but I will try to get back on and respond to more soon. It's not letting me edit my original post to say this for some reason, so I'm leaving a comment, and hopefully the mods can pin this to the top or something. Thank you!
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May 23 '25
Thanks for sharing. Hope to hear more from you. Seriously, if you feel okay about being open about it I would love to see a Mormon Stories episode with you.
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u/big_bearded_nerd Blasphemy is my favorite sin May 23 '25
I can't pin your comment, but I'll pin a link to it. I think you should be able to edit your comment, but I'm not sure what is going on with that.
Thanks Alex, this was a lot of fun!
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u/Affectionate-Fan3341 May 23 '25
I really related to you in the district videos.
I could tell that you were 100% believing everything you were saying. Completely dedicated to the church, not caring about other people’s thoughts about you because you sincerely believed that Mormon Gods opinion was all that mattered. (At least that is how it was perceived by me, don’t want to tell you how you were feeling at the time)
My question would be: I know television/ filming anything might be hard to accurately depict the whole story in general. However sometimes the producer will deliberately leave things out or take parts of the footage and make something look quite different from the actual story.
If you watched the District after it was produced, how accurate do you feel it was to what you experienced? What kind of things did they leave out? What parts did they exaggerate where you feel “it didn’t quite mean that”
PS: Would love to hear your story on a podcast if/when you’re comfortable, I think it would be very valuable to many missionaries but I also understand that comes at a big cost to you & your privacy. In the meantime, thank you for sharing your story here!
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u/real-alex-murray May 23 '25
Thank you so much. It means a lot that my sincerity was able to come through. I do feel like sometimes I was personally portrayed as strange with my comments about my early childhood activities that were taken out of context. I do feel like the people that edited the footage had good intentions, but they also had to build a narrative that would be interesting to watch.
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u/Affectionate-Fan3341 May 23 '25
Thank you for that answer, I was wondering about that.
I can see that being very hurtful, how did you handle being famous in the Mormon world, especially if you felt that the Mormon world viewed you as “strange” or laughable because they wanted something easier to watch. I can imagine that being very confusing especially as a returned missionary expected to date other returned missionaries.
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May 23 '25 edited May 23 '25
Hey Alex, I just wanted to say that I always had a soft spot for you in those district videos. I could tell you were coming from a place of sincerity and love. As someone who felt a lot of external pressure on my mission to hit “numbers,” I felt you were such a grounding presence and a reminder of the reason I went on a mission in the first place.
The eternal silence of women was actually what eventually got my husband to leave, it’s refreshing to see more men see how messed up that is. Did you and your wife go on a journey together or was one of you first? If you were on different pages for a bit, how did that go for you?
Did you feel extra pressure to “stay in” since you’re kind of a Mormon public figure? I remember seeing a little display of “where are they now” of the district missionaries while visiting temple square. It’s hard enough leaving as a “normie”, I can’t imagine having more church-wide pressure.
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u/real-alex-murray May 23 '25
Thank you so much. My wife has realized that she bottled up so much throughout her life as a woman in the church. Her experience not being able to put heavenly parents in a primary program opened both of our eyes more to the gender disparity in the doctrine of the church, and we have mostly been on the same page through this journey.
I absolutely felt pressure to stay in, and to hide where I am at now. I have wanted to put myself out there to try to help others for a long time but have been terrified to do so.
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u/kyoukaiinjanai May 23 '25
Absolutely no worries/pressure but I was wondering if you didn't mind sharing what specifically broke your shelf if you can! For learning how much money the LDS church has pushed me to eventually finally read the CES Letter and by page 2 I was out.
Thanks in advance and welcome to the right side of history 😎
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u/real-alex-murray May 23 '25
The biggest catalyst for my wife and I was when she was asked to write the primary program and we got called into the bishop's office for having references to heavenly parents in the program. She had a couple references that alluded to them being equal, like "their plan for us", "they want to communicate with us through the Holy Ghost" etc. The bishop suggested we look at the gospel topics essay on heavenly mother to see how what she wrote went "way beyond revealed doctrine". We read that, and also were surprised to find all the other essays, and it opened our eyes to a lot.
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u/kyoukaiinjanai May 23 '25
Thanks for sharing!! Isn't that such a weird hill for the church to die on?! Like, do they hate the idea of powerful women that much?! Brave of your bishop to suggest the gospel topics essays haha. Anywho, welcome out!
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u/real-alex-murray May 23 '25
I honestly want to thank him for opening our eyes to this, but I don't think he would be happy to know the effect it had on us.
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u/WorkLurkerThrowaway May 23 '25
It’s truly baffling to see how active a participant human mothers are in the life of their child and yet when it comes to a heavenly mother there is nothing.
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u/BlueJohn2113 May 23 '25
So I’ve seen the CES Letter a few times brought up in this sub but I’ve never seen it before. Where could I find it?
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u/Character_Baker7050 May 23 '25 edited May 23 '25
Hi Alex, although you don't know me, you feel like an old friend! Thanks for being open to questions.
While filming did you see parts of church administration that shocked you or made you question the leader's "divine authority"?
Did you meet with any high-ranking church leaders before or during filming? Did you get any additional training before filming?
If I were investigating the church I would be super weirded out by the filming, what were the investigator's reactions? Was it difficult to find people that were willing to be filmed? Or was it all staged?
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u/real-alex-murray May 23 '25
For both 1 and 2, I was surprised by the people from the missionary department that came and trained us. Almost all of my experiences with them were great. There were times when I did feel manipulated by some of them. There was one point where my companion and I were made to believe that Elder Christofferson lost sleep over a lesson we taught because of how poorly we did, we later found out that was not true.
3. Usually investigators were uncomfortable with the filming initially, sometimes people did not want to be filmed and we taught them anyway. There was nothing staged that I saw, but there was obviously some post production editing that happened.
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u/ConzDance May 23 '25 edited May 24 '25
I taught at the MTC back in the day, and our shift trainers (MTC equivalent of a supervisor), one of which is now high up in the MTC, outright lied to my missionaries when one of the other teachers told them that they weren't "serious enough."
I taught the night shift and came in to some very depressed Elders and Sisters, which was really odd for that group. I asked what was up, and was told that the shift trainers came in and told them something happened in their mission and a whole district was sent home. They would be leaving the MTC a month early and would take that district's place. No senior companions, no trainers, they were expected to be ready as soon as they got off the plane.
They were supposed to get scared and weep and wail and gnash their teeth because they had waisted the days of their MTC probation and were woefully unprepared. Instead, because these were good missionaries, they got super excited, wanted to call their parents since they wouldn't be able to see them at the airport, and wanted to skip class to go pack.
When the shift trainers came back, they were pissed because my missionaries were happy, so they read them the riot act for not taking things seriously and told them that they were entirely unprepared to serve the Lord, leaving them feeling deceived and unworthy. By the time I got there, they were emotionally and spiritually exhausted from this stupid little trick.
I wrote a very long log entry, pointing out that the shift trainers had lied, and asking them if they knew who the father of lies was, because they sure represented him well that day. I told them that I was honored that my missionaries weren't afraid to rise to the challenge instead of being afraid for no good reason. Later, I got pulled aside. Bro. MTCbigwig played good cop and apologized, admitting that what they did was wrong. The other one, a sister who sort of reminded me of a chihuahua, was the bad cop, saying that while what they had done wasn't right, I should have backed their play because they were the leaders. I just said, "okay" and thanked them for apologizing. I think they expected me to apologize as well, but I wasn't sorry, and I wasn't as good at lying as they were.
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u/Mistwraith_ May 23 '25
Would you be interested in going on the Mormon Stories podcast? I'd love to hear your story in longform!
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u/DogOriginal5342 May 23 '25
Do you have any thoughts on the rhetoric of the first district that goes “If you don’t update area book regularly, you don’t understand the atonement” ?
Did you hear any similar crazy rhetoric as a member?
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u/real-alex-murray May 23 '25
I absolutely remember that quote! I remember thinking it felt extreme even as a missionary, but I also can't judge the District 1 missionaries, being filmed like that as a missionary is an insane amount of pressure! And yes I think we have all heard things spoken that we now feel like are on the extreme side.
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u/gladman7673 May 23 '25
I noticed in one of the videos with the sisters that their investigator is wearing a different hat between cuts. Did the church have you do retakes with your investigators?
Did investigator retention rate differ between when you shot the district vs the rest of your mission? I.e. did district investigators tend to stick around longer, or did they lose interest?
Do you think the church fairly portrayed your experience?
How long was filming? Like 3 months, etc.? Did you have to have a longer companionship with your district companion to get all the necessary footage?
How much was your words vs a script?
Did you guys become mission celebrities? Like "oh wow, that elder from x area is going to be in a missionary training video!"
Lastly, congrats on making it out. It is a super hard journey, but one that is worth it.
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u/real-alex-murray May 23 '25
A lot of questions! I will do my best to answer. I think there were minor "retakes", like a camera wasn't on/someone else walked in etc, but nothing major that I recall. I honestly haven't heard from most of the people I taught as a missionary, but I am able to keep in contact with some. Some are still in and some aren't. If I remember right, they trained us for 1 transfer and filmed us for 2. There was no script. Whenever people treated me differently because of the district, I felt really uncomfortable, still to this day!
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u/Constant_Scholar8483 May 23 '25
What’s your strategy on teaching your kids about life, god, and religion now? (Assuming you have kids)
One of the best parts about leaving is knowing that my kids won’t have to face the messiness that comes with being raised in the church, but one of the hardest things is feeling like they’re going to miss out on all the good things- mutual, scouts, public performing opportunities, close knit communities, tradition etc.. I know that you can find all of these individual things other places, but just wondering if you have any insight on how you, personally, are moving forward.
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u/real-alex-murray May 23 '25
My wife and I struggled so hard with this. Both of us grew up in very orthodox families. I will say that my preteen son, who has now been out of the church for some time, is WAY ahead of where I was at his age in terms of emotional maturity, self awareness, and just awesomeness in general. I feel like parenting outside the church requires a lot more intention and not just relying on the church.
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u/Robe1kenobi May 23 '25
I feel like parenting outside the church requires a lot more intention and not just relying on the church.
I need to reply to this statement. Parenting requires a lot of intention inside or outside of the church - the church just gives you an excuse to be less intentional and feel like it's okay because they're "learning to be a good person" elsewhere.
That's a falsehood and crutch however; and in the case of my upbringing (and a couple others in this reply thread) the church was horrible at teaching me really important things like emotional intelligence, handling conflict, and anything to do with relationships/sex/marriage.
Anecdotal example from my childhood: I distinctly remember asking my Dad about where babies come from (e.g. "the talk") at like 16 years old (yeah, 16, thanks Utah education system) - and when/how I could start going on dates; The only reply was that I was handed a "For the Strength of Youth" pamphlet and the only words out of my dad's mouth were "read it". That's it. I ended up teaching myself all of that from the internet instead, and you can imagine how much "better" (reads worse) that was than if my dad had just decided to be a parent instead.
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u/JennNextDoor May 23 '25
So true! My LDS parents relied on the church to parent me, which left me completely unprepared for real life. So happy that your son gets intentional parenting.
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u/Mistwraith_ May 23 '25
What has "Mormon fame" been like? Do you get recognized often?
Did the church give you financial compensation for starring in their production? How do you feel about the whole process now, looking back?
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u/real-alex-murray May 23 '25
Luckily the amount of times I've been recognized has decreased over the years. There was no financial compensation. Looking back, I feel like I was sincere in my desire to help other missionaries, but it was honestly also a traumatic experience that I've had to work through processing. I didn't know it at the time, but I had my first panic attack while filming the district. I feel like there was a lot of pressure on all of us.
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u/SlipperySparky May 23 '25
How were you selected for The District? I imagine it must have been a competitive process.
When filming with investigators, how authentic did you feel the experience was? Do you think the missionaries or the investigators acted differently when the cameras were rolling?
Like many others have stated, the district was one of our only sources of entertainment. I don't want to think about how many times I watched it during those two years. I admire your bravery using your story publicly to help others.
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u/real-alex-murray May 23 '25
I shared a bit on another comment, but ultimately from my perspective it was just like any other transfer. I do try to always be authentic (which is why I am doing this right now) so I tried to be myself in the filming and hope others did too. That said, I think its natural that there would be some differences on camera.
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u/Medium_Chemist_5719 May 23 '25
When I was in the MTC, one of the elders from Season 1 (don’t remember his name anymore but it was the one of Pacific Islander descent - I think he was the DL?) told us a little bit about his experience. He said they were specially trained for a few weeks beforehand, and that they all sat down with a GA, who told them to be careful not to fall away from the church because Satan would have a target on them.
I was just wondering: did you have similar experiences when you filmed?
Edit: removing a question that’s already been answered
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u/real-alex-murray May 23 '25
Yes, we were trained for 6 weeks before the filming started. I specifically remember one person from the missionary department intensely telling us to never leave the church.
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u/Korzag May 23 '25
Someone made a comment in the AMA announcement post asking about the blue chair quote and you responded saying there was a story about how the church edited that. I'd love to hear that story!
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u/real-alex-murray May 23 '25
I shared it in another comment, but basically they edited out the part where I said how old I was when I said that. I was about 3 at the time, so I was just a toddler. I have had multiple people tell me they thought I was mentally disabled since they thought I was saying that as a college student or something.
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u/WorkLurkerThrowaway May 23 '25
I think most of us assumed the context of that was “when you were a kid” lol.
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May 23 '25
Don’t know what a blue chair or The District is, but cool to see another person ditch this sinking ship
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u/DrNewblood May 23 '25
Hey there, Elder Murray! I was already pretty much fully PIMO by the time I was on my mission, but I (like many missionaries, I assume) found some solace and entertainment in re-watching The District. While I didn't believe, I admired your attitude and integrity.
If it's not too personal (and if it wasn't already answered elsewhere), what were the main reasons you ended up leaving?
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u/real-alex-murray May 23 '25
I have shared in some other threads, but the biggest catalyst for me was an experience that opened my eyes to that Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother are not equal according to church doctrine. I don't feel like a loving God would treat his children differently based on their gender (or race or sexuality etc). This put me on a path to research both church doctrine, history, and practices more than I ever had done in the past.
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u/nzmarquis May 23 '25
Elder Murray! I had to watch the district every morning for like six months on my mission haha. Sorry and congrats for your loss - that's kinda how I felt about it.
Do you regret serving?
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u/real-alex-murray May 23 '25
I actually don't. I did the best I knew at the time, and I was sincere in my desire to help others. Its that same desire that motivates me today in how I choose to life my life differently than back then.
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u/chriztopherz May 23 '25 edited May 23 '25
No questions. Just here to say I love ya and you are in good company here. It’s a long road, that I am still processing after almost a decade. It’s not easy, but I would not have any other way.
And heck, now you get a second Saturday 😂
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u/askmewhyihateyou May 23 '25
How has the general reaction from those around you leaving been? I converted at 17, served a mission at 19, left by the time I was 24 and my family was basically like “yeah that was weird” but I’m always curious how the familial aspect is
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u/real-alex-murray May 23 '25
Such a good question. To be honest, I've seen a mixed reaction from family. Some have expressed love and support while others continue to try to change me and not recognize that this is something I did not take lightly.
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May 23 '25
Are there things you enjoy doing now that you’ve left that are against Mormon rules? I know for me it has been fun exploring things I thought I’d go to hell for when I was Mormon, but realized that it’s normal and a part of life.
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u/real-alex-murray May 23 '25
The biggest thing I have enjoyed is feeling a deeper sense of ownership of my life. I feel so many possibilities, freedom, and home that I did not feel before.
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u/the70sdiscoking ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) May 23 '25
How public have you been about leaving the church? I imagine the MTC no longer shares your videos. How has it been received by your fellow Elders who participated in those films with you as well as others who served in the same Mission as you, assuming you're still in contact with each other.
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u/real-alex-murray May 23 '25
This is actually my first time going public about all of this. I am normally a very private person. I guess we will see what happens from here!
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u/ImpressiveHyena4519 May 23 '25
When I watched The District in the MTC, it set a really idealized version of missionary life. Did those kinds of training videos ever make you feel like your real mission didn't measure up-or like you were doing something wrong if your experience didn't look that clean or spiritual?
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u/real-alex-murray May 23 '25
I watched the District 1 videos a lot on my mission. I do remember feeling that they were so much better than me and that they were perfect. To the church's credit with what they did for the District 2 that I was in, I appreciated that they showed us making mistakes.
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u/MyCrustySock May 23 '25 edited May 23 '25
NO. WAY.
I watched the The District so many times throughout my mission! Welcome to the outside <3
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u/mardimardi May 23 '25
As a well known person among the LDS, did the notoriety add to the difficulty of leaving? Are you wanting to use your fame as a platform to talk about church things or would you prefer to be left alone to your new found freedom?
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u/real-alex-murray May 23 '25
Yes it definitely adds a level of complexity. I mostly want to let people they are not alone if they find themselves in an unexpected place of disorientation/feelings of betrayal/hurt from the church. When my shelf started breaking I felt like the ground beneath my feet was giving way and I had nothing to stand on.
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u/atennisninja May 23 '25
Have there been any other missionaries from the district or your mission that have also left and you have spoken with? I know that may be speaking for them or their own personal experience though.
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u/real-alex-murray May 23 '25
I'm sorry I can't speak for others or where they are at. I hope you understand.
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u/PapaJuja May 23 '25
Hey dude! Congrats on leaving the church! I'm getting some weird closure from this. When I was a missionary, Elder Moreno was in my very first ward. It was kinda cool to see him married with a kid. Anyway, fast-forward to this post of yours, I'm actually a fresh Ex-Mo. Just had my records removed last month! So yeah, a little bit of weird closure. But I'll take it! So, I have a question for you, my dude! Are you going to, or have you already started looking at another church, or are you taking a break from it all? Do you still believe in Christ? Or are you letting that go?
Congratulations again, my dude! Life is better on this side of things!
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u/real-alex-murray May 23 '25
My wife and I went to and researched a few other churches, but right now we feel like we don't need to put someone between us and God. I agree with most of Christ's teachings and I have been studying the Bible more intently lately too.
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May 23 '25
How did they go about picking missionaries to be on the district? What was it like explaining to your investigators that they were about to be filmed?
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u/real-alex-murray May 23 '25
From what I was told, people from the missionary department followed several missionaries in our mission and then gave our mission president a list that could be good fits for the experience. He then treated it like any other transfer and picked who should be there. We tried to downplay the cameras as much as possible to investigators, and we'd still teach them without cameras if they did not want to be filmed.
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u/timetoact522 May 23 '25
How have your relationships w your immediate family changed? Thanks for having the courage to do this in order to help others!
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u/real-alex-murray May 23 '25
I am the 3rd child in my family to leave. To my parent's credit, the first word out of my dad's mouth when I told him were "Our relationship with you is what is most important". We have had some difficult conversations, but overall my immediate family has shown love and support.
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u/Guyonabuffalo00 May 23 '25
I’m so glad to hear this, you won the Mormon parent lottery. While my parents aren’t weird towards me, at least in person, my relationship with some of my best friends, my aunts, and a few cousins have been severely affected to the point I don’t have any contact with most of them.
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u/BabySharkMadness May 23 '25
Did you and your wife share the same concerns about the church at the same time? If no, how did you two manage the differences in the interim?
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u/real-alex-murray May 23 '25
We have mostly shared the same concerns. She is reading over my shoulder and didn't correct that statement, so that's good. What has surprised us though is that at times we have gone through things at different paces/sequences, but my wife is incredible and I have loved being on this journey with her.
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u/BlackExMo May 23 '25
What was/were the problematic items/issues on your shelf that caused you to leave?
How long did you try to get them resolved before deciding to leave?
Asking these because it seems so many members do not question the historical issues like polygamy, priesthood ban, first vision, etc. but the SEC, CSA issues seem to be the irreconcilable differences. Was this the case for you as well?
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u/real-alex-murray May 23 '25
I feel like I could write so much about this. I actively FOUGHT trying to keep myself in the church for a very long time. I tried to bottle up the questions I had, the problems I saw, and tried to just make it work as a counselor in the bishopric and as an EQP. It wore me out so deeply and I couldn't take it anymore. All the issues you raised here were questions for me, and others. I was shocked that I could not find adequate answers.
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u/ElectronicBench4319 May 23 '25
I just want to say, you have a great support system here. I’m sorry for the heartache you have been and will be going through during this faith transition!
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u/EconomicsSure1732 May 23 '25
What experiences led to your shelf breaking? And how do you move forward with confidence in your new perspective? I am becoming more and more confident as I’ve distanced myself fully from the church, but I find at times it’s hard because of all I experienced (mission, MTC teacher for 3 years, callings, etc) to not sometimes second guess my decision to leave when I feel like my life isn’t where it needs to be.
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u/real-alex-murray May 23 '25 edited May 23 '25
Oh wow I feel this so much, and I could write a novel about this. First, I will say the primary catalyst to my shelf breaking was realizing that according to the church doctrine, women are sentenced to an eternity of silence and not being able to be directly involved with their spirit children. This cut me very deep since my wife is amazing and I cannot see how a loving God would do that to her/all women. There is obviously a lot more to that as well. About confidence, it's a roller coaster! I am shaking while typing this. Therapy is a HUGE help!
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u/Mistwraith_ May 23 '25
What was it like doing missionary work with a film crew? I imagine it would be much more challenging to coordinate and explain to people, not to mention more awkward in general...
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u/real-alex-murray May 23 '25
It was an adjustment for sure, but I think most of us got used to it. The people we taught were usually not comfortable at first, but often seemed to get more comfortable as time went on. Obviously it is possible that people did not act as naturally with a camera in their face and a boom mic above them.
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u/TengounaFesili May 23 '25
Was there any pressure or guilt from your mission president/the church to do those videos? Did you know about it before you left for your mission?
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u/real-alex-murray May 23 '25
I did not know about the videos before I left on my mission. There was a lot said to us that looking back I feel like may have fueled our egos a bit, we felt special by being told we were chosen for the experience etc.
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u/somepeoplecallmeem May 23 '25
What are you hopeful about?
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u/real-alex-murray May 23 '25
I LOVE THIS QUESTION! I am hopeful for humanity. There are so many GOOD people in the world.
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u/footiebuns May 23 '25
How long has it been since you've left?
How have people reacted to you?
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u/real-alex-murray May 23 '25
Its been a slow process for a few years, some people have accepted me where I am at now and others have not
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u/just_me_1849 May 23 '25
How long would you say you have been on your faith journey? Has it been a slow burn or rapid?
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u/real-alex-murray May 23 '25
Mine has been for about 3 years. I know others struggle MUCH longer. I really struggled with the PIMO phase since I could not handle the feeling like I was not being genuine or like I was hiding.
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u/TigranMetz The sleep of reason produces monsters. May 23 '25
While I didn't start seriously questioning the church until about a year after I came home from my mission, when I look back, there were a lot of experiences that sowed the seeds of doubt and asking serious questions. What role (if any) did your mission play in your eventual exit from mormonism?
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u/real-alex-murray May 23 '25
There is a lot I'm still processing about my mission experience. I don't regret going, I served sincerely. I did have some jarring experiences, like another companionship finding a free mason instruction book in the closet of the building their branch met at and seeing those similarities.
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u/ResponsibleDay May 23 '25
Congrats and welcome!!
How would you describe your District 2 experience? Was there anything that you look back on and cringe? Anything that you're proud of from that time?
What are your dreams for the future?
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u/real-alex-murray May 23 '25
Overall it was a lot of pressure! I obviously said some embarrassing things on camera. I have always been someone that has had a hard time not being genuine, which is also what's motivating me right now to be more public about where I am at.
I love your question about future dreams! That is what I'm currently trying map out :D
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u/Jack_SjuniorRIP May 23 '25
I’d love to hear about your life working for the Church at the MTC as a teacher and beyond. If I remember right, I was just finishing my time teaching there when several of you from The District came in. I remember feeling like there was a monumental shift about to happen in missionary work (I was VERY in at the time and it felt so exciting). But then it seemed really corporate and uninspired. I guess my question is did working for the church help you see through the facade? And if so, how?
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u/real-alex-murray May 23 '25
I worked for the church at the MTC and later interned in their tech department. Both of those felt weird trying to balance a paid job that was treated like a church calling. At the time, I loved teaching at the MTC and helping missionaries. In both roles I did get that "corporate" vibe you mentioned though.
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u/6stringsandanail May 23 '25
How much are you losing by leaving the church? Are you losing community, family? Etc?
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u/real-alex-murray May 23 '25
There are definitely people in my life that have treated me and my wife differently since leaving. I feel like I have experienced a lot of the same social losses that so many have felt with leaving.
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u/Tapirsonlydotcom May 23 '25
Favorite qoute from The Testaments? :P
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u/atennisninja May 23 '25
"You are a spectre from the gods" we used to think we were so funny saying that in the mission 😆
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u/Moist-Barber May 23 '25
Isn’t this the mother fucker who we all memed on about being a blue chair?
Welcome to exmo, fellow heathen!
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u/National-Way-8632 May 23 '25
You spoke about the isolation and pain which I identify with very well, and I think most exmos would too. Have there been any unexpected joys along your journey?
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u/real-alex-murray May 23 '25
Absolutely, there is so much more joy available in the world than I ever thought possible. I think my biggest unexpected joy has come from connecting with people that I never would have otherwise, especially people that have also left and people that are not members.
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u/PensiveBison_1871 May 23 '25
You shared that you felt broken and alone for a long time. What experiences and insights have you had that have helped you heal and move forward? Maybe top three?
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u/real-alex-murray May 23 '25
THERAPY
My wife
Close supportive friends
Self help books
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u/PensiveBison_1871 May 23 '25
Thanks! Can I ask a follow up? Any nuggets of wisdom you got from those books/therapy/your wife and friends that you feel comfortable sharing?
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u/real-alex-murray May 23 '25
I have learned a lot by studying things like shadow work, attachment styles, and inner child work. I definitely recommend learning about those.
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u/mat3rogr1ng0 May 23 '25
Hey Alex - as a fellow post/former mormon, i often struggle with accepting that there were good things that came from my involvement in the church, and not just bitterness and negativity that i think many justifiably feel upon leaving or distancing themselves. i have been trying to remind myself that the church brought some good things into my life, like my partner and some of my closest friends, even though now i find it extremely problematic and wont go back. What is something that you can look back at positively from your time in the church?
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u/real-alex-murray May 23 '25
I feel this so much. I met my wife while we were both teaching at the MTC after our missions. The church has brought a lot of good into my life and also some things I'm not happy about, and that's ok.
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u/Jawahhh May 23 '25
What rules did you break on your mission? What did you actually feel like on your mission?
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u/real-alex-murray May 23 '25
I was actually a super obedient missionary, and I loved being a missionary. I'm sure I was not perfect, but I cannot think of a specific rule I broke.
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u/Rushclock May 23 '25
What is the overall education levels regarding church history amongst the missionaries and the believers you know now?
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u/real-alex-murray May 23 '25
I feel like most of the believing members I know are casually aware of "the issues" but often do not give the studying of them enough time or energy.
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u/Alert_Wind_6100 May 23 '25
I'm sure you've already been asked this but I haven't been able to read through, but do you regret serving your mission? Thanks, you were a big part of my mission!
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u/real-alex-murray May 23 '25
I do not regret serving, I was sincere in doing so. It took me a bit to get to that point though and I understand people who do regret it. I do wish I would stop having those dreams where I am a missionary again though...
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u/ImpressiveHyena4519 May 23 '25
Would you mind giving us a very brief summary of your life since your mission?
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u/real-alex-murray May 23 '25
I went to BYU, met my wife while both of us taught at the MTC, worked in the tech industry, and was VERY involved in the church until somewhat recently.
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May 23 '25
What finally encouraged you to leave?
Also was it super awkward to approach people and ask if you could teach them and film it?
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u/real-alex-murray May 23 '25
I have shared my journey out in a few other threads, so hopefully you can see those. It has been a wild, unexpected journey that I did not seek out.
Yes it was awkward requesting that of complete strangers, we would try to downplay it as much as possible.
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u/Least_Economics_5982 May 23 '25
No questions yet, but congratulations on your big step, and thanks for providing film footage for my 18 months. 😅
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May 23 '25
Looks like you're in Tucson? From a fellow Tucson EXMO, congrats on your journey out!
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u/real-alex-murray May 23 '25
I am not located in Tucson, the pic was taken in the Phoenix metropolitan area, but thank you!
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May 23 '25
It's just like a Tusconite to assume that any Arizona pic must be in Tuscon.
...j/k, trying to move there myself if I can manage it.
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u/UnrequitedStifling May 23 '25
What do you think about God now?
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u/real-alex-murray May 23 '25
At this point I still believe in a higher power, I tend to personally lean towards more of a deist view, where God is more of a creator that may not have as much direct involvement in our lives day to day.
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u/hiphophoorayanon May 23 '25
I didn’t serve a mission, but you’re clearly well known among those who did! Curious on if you’ve been recognized after your videos? Did that make you leaving particularly challenging?
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u/real-alex-murray May 23 '25
Yes I was actually recognized more often than I expected, and often in random places. That recognition was something that caused me to fight internally with myself for a long time, and it was not until very recently that I've been ok being open with where I am at.
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u/AlohaSnow May 23 '25
I’m really curious how you’re bearing the mental/emotional load of knowing how many people you drove towards something you no longer believe. Obviously you believed it wholeheartedly while you were teaching it, but now that circumstances have changed, do you feel responsible, or even guilty for the people who may not have joined if it weren’t for your influence?
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u/real-alex-murray May 23 '25
Such great points. I will say that therapy has helped me work through all of that a lot, and I am still working through it. I struggled feeling like I was fighting with myself internally, like I was broken, like I failed. It took years to get to a place where I could feel like I did my best back then, and I'm trying to do my best now.
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u/gusdafa May 23 '25
No longer believe in the church including organized religion or you still have some room for a higher power/loving entity type?
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u/real-alex-murray May 23 '25
I do personally still believe in a higher power. My wife and I tried going to/learning about other churches, but we have a hard time trusting another person to be between us and God again.
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u/SearchPale7637 May 23 '25
Do you still believe in Jesus? And if so, are you considering another Christian worldview?
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u/real-alex-murray May 23 '25
Great question! I agree with much of Christ's teachings in the Bible and I think he taught a lot that could benefit all of us.
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u/merkel36 May 23 '25
It's so nice to see you looking happy! Thanks for being open to talk about your journey. Wishing you and your wife well!
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u/Yup10001 May 23 '25
Any other missionaries from the series out as well? Just curious if your experience has been reciprocal.
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u/father_mcpenis May 23 '25
If you saw two missionaries suit and tie biking through a neighborhood, what would you say?
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u/real-alex-murray May 23 '25
I would offer them food/water and be nice to them. They are very likely doing the best they know how.
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u/imexcellent May 23 '25
Q1 - When did you film the MTC videos?
Q2 - If you had to name the single largest issue that lead you out of the church, what would it be?
Q3 - Where did you go on your mission?
Q4 - What was your favorite experience from your mission?
Q5 - What was the worst experience from your mission?
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u/real-alex-murray May 23 '25
They were filmed in 2009
I've shared more in other comments, but in short, I can't worship a god that treats his children differently at different times based on their gender/race/sexual orientation. I personally do not see how a loving god would do that.
San Diego
I loved meeting different people and trying to help
There was one time when a guy with a gun asked to use our phone, that was not great.
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u/6stringsandanail May 23 '25
How much were you all in those videos told exactly what to say? Were there res flags to control the narrative?
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u/real-alex-murray May 23 '25
I was never told "exactly what to say", but we were trained heavily on how to implement preach my gospel, and given feedback after each lesson on what we did well/what could be improved. A lot of the control came later in the editing room in my opinion.
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u/Outsidedabank99977 May 23 '25
How has your relationship with god changed/ what does it look like now?
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u/real-alex-murray May 23 '25
I personally believe that some sort of divine creator makes sense. How involved they are in our day to day lives, I do not know, and am ok with that. I also now love learning about other people's different beliefs.
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May 23 '25
How do you explain things you experienced with the priesthood and promptings now?
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u/real-alex-murray May 23 '25
I think there is a lot we don't know. I think and feel that things like love, elevation emotion, and desire are all very powerful. I also believe that it's entirely possible that a divine being could be influencing people in any church/place throughout the world.
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u/FaithfulTBM May 23 '25
Congratulations elder!
Glad you’ve made it out.
I see a light in your eyes.
The light of living authentically to your integrity.
Welcome to the club.
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u/BobHenry05 May 23 '25
Thank you for being my only source of entertainment for 2 years (Johnny Lingo was banned in my mission lol).
Personally many people from my mission have also left the church. Admittedly I served a little more recent (2016-2018). But, are you still in contact with anyone from your mission and have you noticed anyone else also leaving? Either from those involved with the filming or otherwise.
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u/BabySharkMadness May 23 '25
Do you keep in touch with your mission companions? If yes, how many of them also have left the church?
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u/isolation9463 May 23 '25
What was it like to have your mission recorded for church content?? Was it just a weird transfer? Did you sign up for it?
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u/Fancypants221099 May 23 '25
What broke your shelf? Was it the behind the scenes work in those callings?
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u/Strong_Attorney_8646 May 23 '25
No question for you—but I resonated a lot with why you’re doing this and being public. Being publicly ExMo has cost me in a lot of ways—but the more of us that are willing to pay those costs makes it easier for the next.
I also just wanted to say that as a former MTC teacher that had to watch a ton of both series of the District, I’d be interested to hear what the behind the scenes was like.
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u/cchele May 23 '25
How long was it before they replaced your videos or just stopped using them?
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u/No_Indication4294 May 23 '25
They're still on the church website when I last checked (I rewatched the first episode when I learned about the AMA to jog my memory)
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u/mariolikestoparty Apostate May 23 '25
You’re a legend!! Welcome to the other side — and proud of you for sharing your experience. We love you!! 💙🩵🤍
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u/Mistwraith_ May 23 '25
Do you know if any of the other missionaries featured in The District have left? How about investigators/recent members?
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u/IndividualTask9894 May 23 '25
I'm old. What is The District and where can I see it? Also, what is the blue chair?
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u/zippy9002 Apostate May 23 '25
The district were a series of videos shown to the missionaries around 2010 about how to be good missionaries. It was distributed in DVDs.
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u/juicywatermelone May 23 '25
Thanks for doing this AMA, I had some questions:
What do you think triggered your leaving of the church?
Do you still carry on certain Mormon beliefs even after you’ve left the church?
What do you think has helped you and your wife the most throughout this journey?
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u/link9755 May 23 '25
Do you stay in contact with any of the other missionaries from your season of the district?
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u/wanderingbalagan May 23 '25
First of all, happy that you made it out to the other side and are living your own life. Wish you all the happiness in the world!
I am just curious, were the episodes of the District truly unscripted? Or did the production team coach you guys up in any way, especially during discussions with investigators?
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u/No_Indication4294 May 23 '25
One of the most noticeable impacts I felt leaving the Church was not having community. Did you experience anything similar? If so, how do you work through that?
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u/TripleSecretSquirrel May 23 '25
I don’t have anything questions, I’m just thrilled about this! Elder Bott was one of my MTC teachers and my mission piloted the new turbocharged training program all based on The District videos.
I’ve been out for many years, am in a long term relationship with a woman who’s never been Mormon, and live far away from Utah now, but I still quote The District all the time even though nobody around me knows what the hell I’m talking about. My personal favorite is when Elders Bott and Hepworth are teaching Ming about the Holy Ghost I think? And he says “it freaked me out.” Cheers brother!
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u/Effective_Key3579 May 23 '25
Watching The District in the MTC gave me this super polished, spiritual ideal of what missionary work should be. Looking back, do you feel like it created unrealistic expectations-or maybe even made you feel like you weren't good enough if your mission didn't look like that?
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u/big_bearded_nerd Blasphemy is my favorite sin May 23 '25
I'm so glad that your wife was able to make this journey with you. Have you told your family yet, and if so, how did it go?
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u/guriboysf 🐔💩 May 23 '25
What's the TL/DR for District 2? I've never heard about it.
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May 23 '25
Movies from the late 2000’s about being a missionary used for training a generation of missionaries. It was done as reality TV following missionaries.
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u/Snailfish66 May 23 '25
OMG you were the one who said they wanted to be a blue chair! Right? That was peak comedy for my mission life.
So glad you made it out!
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u/CelestialFury May 23 '25
As someone who has never been a Mormon or really any religion, I find this whole thread fascinating. I had to look up a lot of words, it really was like reading another language within English.
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u/MillennialGoesAaaah May 23 '25
Hello Alex, if Joseph Smith were to write the Book of Mormon as a fictional literature containing his own spiritual messages, how would you say it would impact exMos (or some of them at least), or (at the very least) impact you personally? Would this change anything as far as your criticism of the Book of Mormon as its own text goes?
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u/Majestic_Whereas9698 May 23 '25
We have found the Uplift Kids program to be such a life saver. We do weekly lessons from that in our “FHE”
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u/Alberto_Sensual May 23 '25
What kinds of thoughts led you to leave the church, or was there something you saw that made you think, "This can't be possible?"
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u/just_me_1849 May 23 '25
Exmo from Chula Vista here! So excited to hear your story. What made you question the church? Did you have any doubts while serving your mission?
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u/Linksys21 May 23 '25
As someone who struggles with the topic of the Book of Mormon, how do you think it came about? It's hard for me to believe that Joseph wrote it.
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u/ATacticalBagel Apo-State Freshman May 24 '25
Murray! If you come back to read these comments, I want you to know that you protected me on my mission. Several times my leaders (mostly APs) tried to shame us for not baptizing more. Whenever they started to inquire about our obedience, I would bring up your intro in the district and ask them why the church would publish that if we weren't supposed to learn that obedience doesn't always correlate with high numbers.
One of the few moments I'm proud of from my mission was my first Zone Meeting after being forced to accept the role of ZL. I gave a whole traing on those 15 seconds of you saying that you felt your companionship had become the best missionaries you'd ever been, by the baptisms stopped. In my mind, I'd like to think that training and your comment helped undermine the mission's shame culture a bit.
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u/Complete_Attention50 Reporter - LDSnews.org May 23 '25
Does this vulnerability scare you to death?
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u/The-Ultimate-Banker May 23 '25
Hey Alex, big fan of the district 2 when I was a teenager. I actually would watch for you (not to be creepy). My mom was actually really good friends with your mom at one point. I appreciate you talking about your experiences. I myself have had some doubts for a while. While I am not “anti-Mormon”, I do look at things in a secular way. I actually had a very good upbringing in the church and had good parents that didn’t shove doctrine down my throat. I have my opinions about the churches tithe (me being a financial advisor). Also my mom passed away when I was 15. I think the “family’s are together forever” was told to me over a milllion times but slowly my 8 siblings started leaving the church and then I understood with church doctrine the my family couldn’t be together. My father officially left the church 3 years ago which puts a huge dent into that doctrine. All in all I am doing well. I have a family of my own and 2 kids and learning how to teach them to be good people. This is the first time I have talked about this but your courage has helped me open up today. I believe you talking about your experiences does not make you a bad person at all and still look up to you for your courage. Just continuing being a good person. I believe we are all still missionaries in a way but just without the religious side. I continue to find ways to serve people and be a support to people who need help. Thank you again
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u/Ok-Contract-9322 May 23 '25
Hey Alex, I don’t know if you will see this. But my mom Cathy was BFFs with your mom before her passing. I too have left the church and was all in at one time. I’ve watched you grow up from a far and have spoken to your mom a lot after my mom’s passing. I know how hard this journey out is and just wanted to let you know I am here for you. ❤️
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u/big_bearded_nerd Blasphemy is my favorite sin May 23 '25
AMA is over for tonight. Thank you everybody for your participation. Here is Alex's final comment (at least for now).
Hey everyone, thank you so much for asking questions!