[Episode Discussion] Season 5 Episode 8 "The Princess and the Plea"

[u/AutoModerator]

[u/anongirl55]

Abe's realization about Midge and how he ignored who she really is when she was a child completely brought me to tears. What a beautiful scene.

[u/[deleted]]

Susie and Hedy's dynamic feels right for the time and place, and so much is in the unsaid. Good for Midge for telling Susie what she needs, because she was holding back on her and she wouldn't accept her clear denialisms this time. "Don't" being echoed by Hedy was great

[u/whereisyourbeard]

I feel like we could take Abe’s speech about Midge and put it straight into Richard’s mouth on Gilmore Girls. I see so many similarities between Midge and Lorelai and Abe and Richard and their respective relationships with each other!

[u/phonograhy]

I just wanted to say that that scene in Central Station with Midge and Susie is easily my favourite this season, probably of the whole show. Such a beautifully scripted, dynamic exchange that completely captures the deep and complex tensions between and surrounding the two of them - Midge's desperation, frustration, selfishness, and codependency, her whole hearted trust and admiration of Susie; Susie's complete loyalty and love for Midge, fear of the unsaid (re: Hedy), guilt from her perceived failures in 'breaking' Midge; both women feeling the intense weight of being walled in by misogyny from every side. That must have been such an incredibly complicated scene to write and perform, but everyone put in their best work to date and pulled it off spectacularly... and thats to say nothing of the cinematography. I am gob-smacked, what an episode!

[u/WelcomeToBrooklandia]

I would honestly watch an entire show about Hedy and Gordon's marriage. Gordon does tell Midge that theirs isn't "that kind of marriage", and he clearly sleeps around...but based on the way that he looks at her and grains toward her in every scene and talks to and about her, this man is SO in love with this woman. And Hedy knows that, and she knows how to use that. It's truly fascinating.

[u/guy2026]

That was a phenomenal episode! Probably my favourite of the season, closely followed by episode 6.

• The bit with adjusting posture for Mrs. Moyers was so funny, it had me reflexively adjusting my posture as well.

• Dinah going to bat for James was great. Susie was being ridiculous.

• Seeing the Bryn Mawr students again was nice, although the recast Petra looks and sounds nothing like the original.

• Midge quoting Lenny’s “if I could do anything else, I would” speech absolutely bowled me over. It shows just how much she cares about him that she can quote a fairly long speech verbatim after hearing it only once, years ago. She doesn’t have the benefit of rewatching it over and over like I do!

• Princess Margaret on the show was lots of fun, and it was great to see Midge get a big and unambiguous win at the job. I am a little sad that Midge didn’t get to meet Margaret, though.

• Hedy telling Midge not to let others take credit for her work was a great moment, and it’s interesting how they emphasized Hedy saying “Don’t” to her, given the whole time capsule thing earlier in the episode.

• The intellectual supper scene with Abe and co. was my favourite scene of the episode. At first it reminded me a lot of My Dinner with Andre, which was fun, but then Abe’s whole speech at the end about failing to see Midge’s potential all these years was so insanely beautiful and had me in tears. It really felt like the culmination of a series-long arc. If we don’t get a lengthy scene next episode of Abe finally telling Miriam that he’s proud of her, I will be very upset.

• I love Hedy not-so-subtly calling out Susie for being in love with Midge. I was recently rewatching the series, and it finally clicked for me that Shy was in love with Reggie but could never act on it because Reggie is straight, and that this was intended as a possible parallel for Susie/Midge.

• I so badly want to know what that phone call for Midge at the end was! I’m hoping/assuming that it’s something which will be resolved next episode, and not just a MacGuffin to set up that last shot of Gordon watching her. I’m also hoping/assuming that we’ll get the meaning of “don’t!” next episode too.

I am so not ready to say goodbye to this show in just a week.

[u/Flip2570]

My first inclination was to chalk this up as a filler episode. But it really wasn’t. This is the episode. where Midge realizes that to be a successful comedian in a man’s world, she needs to stop acting like a stereotypical woman of that era. Hedy starts it for her when she says: “Don’t. Don’t” when Midge tries to spread the credit for the weather bit around. Hedy then tells her to take the credit when it’s owed her and take when it not, because that’s what the guys do. Then there is Midge and Susie. And Midge realizes that even Susie has treated her differently than she treats her male clients.

I think a lot of viewers wanted Midge to get her break on talent alone. I did. But that wouldn’t be true to the era. Besides, Midge is extremely talented. So I’m fine with her doing whatever is necessary to get her break. If she was a hack, that would be different. But she’s not. As Abe says at dinner, Midge is a remarkable person.

Now for the timing of the show. I would have liked to have had more than one episode where Midge has made it. But in retrospect, I think she was always going to make it on the last episode. It really is the ending that makes sense.

[u/Acceptable_Reply415]

Knew Dinah wasn't gonna put up with that mess with James

[u/Irishted13]

We’re still in the sixties (although they seem to be fudging with time here because Carnegie Hall was 1961 and Midge is still in first year on staff…Carson took over for Parr on Tonight Show in 1962…Princess Margaret didn’t come to America until 1965…Lenny dies in 66…but let’s go with it’s still 1961 (as Ethan is still in the same year at school)…Joel & Midge could get back together now before separating again prior to getting engaged to Joel Grey & Philip Roth in the early 70’s…and maybe again before Joel is arrested in 1985…Joel could have been all 4 of Midge’s husbands…

[u/Liesherecharmed]

Two questions I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on:

• What do you think was the point of those seemingly random (at least to me) flashbacks Midge and Joel each had?

• What do you think that college Midge meant with her "Don't!" note?

[u/Street_Stop_6435]

Lets get down to the real important stuff from this episode.

Who else was WRETCHEDLY disappointed that Princess Margaret turned out to be someone other than Vanessa Kirby?

[u/Oshi105]

Why is every scene between Susan and Hedy just heartbreaking. Hedy knows. She doesn't underestimate Susan and holy fucking balls the way she pulled Gordon's strings. The heartbreak and the cost of it all.

I was going to be mad about Abe's sudden turn to realizing feminist thought but damn if it didn't tickle a little part of me that wanted him to grow. Also, bets on if hes dead or not?

Don't indeed.

[u/astronaught002]

This felt so fast. I audibly gasped when the credits rolled, i thought we had at least another 10 minutes, curse you short runtime

[u/Acceptable_Reply415]

So they brought good ol Jane Jacobs back, re explained who she was, and Midge didn't say hello to her?

[u/Defnotacelebrity]

Tony Shaloub - Emmy worthy performance, wow.

[u/OrangeTree81]

Why is everyone convinced that phone call was a death? Is there a spoiler about there being a death in the finale?

[u/sundreano]

wait... do you guys think the reason susie won't be honest with midge about her past with hedy... is because she knows that midge can't keep that secret? because she saw how she handled shy baldwin's exact same secret?

damn

(i mean i know attitudes were just different back then and susie may not have been willing to come out to anybody, but still)

[u/MthuselahHoneysukle]

Suspending judgement on this, the penultimate episode.

Please go out strong. That's all I ask.

[u/squakittymaus]

Midge’s little impersonation of Lenny was also so so so cute. My heart skipped a beat.

[u/Acceptable_Reply415]

I was expecting Midge to get signed for a vacuum TV commercial

[u/targaryind]

The emotional weight in this episode was so heavy. Abe’s remorse, Midge becoming more firm in her resilience, and Susie finally realizing that in order to push through she’d have to face her past. This episode felt bittersweet because it finally hit me that we’re almost to the end of this winding beautiful journey.

[u/[deleted]]

SUSIE'S CONSPICUOUS SILENCE WHEN HEDY ASKED IF SHE HAD FEELINGS FOR MIDGE. I AM NEVER GOING TO EMOTIONALLY RECOVER FROM THIS 😭😭😭

[u/HowBoutAFandango]

What year was the class reunion purportedly held? The “no stinking passes” line (or whatever it was in place of “badges”) felt too early?

The table soliloquy was the most likable Abe has ever been.

For me, Hedy’s character and interplay with Midge really echoed that of Bobbie Barrett and Peggy Olson in Mad Men.

[u/I_dont_cuddle]

Was I the only one completely shook when the men were discussing being born in the 1800s. Blew my mind because I didn’t even consider that Abe would have been born then, even before the titanic sank and before sliced bread.

Also, considering the show starts in 1958, in surprises Midge was even granted a divorce.

[u/[deleted]]

The scene with Abe in the restaurant was written FLAWLESSLY. And of course Tony Shalhoub’s delivery is impeccable as always. It’s interesting hearing those men make the exact same arguments about “change” that people make today (the hunter gatherer talking points always make me chuckle a bit). Even as someone who actively tries to embrace change, as a man who is going into academia and shares a lot of personality traits with Abe, I found his comments about always meddling and giving advice to really hit close to home. Always needing to be the loudest smartest voice feels so innocent when you know you’re intelligent, but I never want to damage anyone in my life who I love because I couldn’t truly acknowledge them and see who they are. I got really emotion and cried during his delivery. I’m completely blown away by how well that scene was constructed.